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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 01:17:21
Subject: Re:US Politics
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Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols
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America doesn’t have a parliamentary style system right? So there is no ‘leader of the Democratic Party’ in a similar vein to leader of the conservative or labour parties in the uk right? Who’s a prominent enough democrat to take him on?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:15:28
Subject: Re:US Politics
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Blood Angel Chapter Master with Wings
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Future War Cultist wrote:America doesn’t have a parliamentary style system right? So there is no ‘leader of the Democratic Party’ in a similar vein to leader of the conservative or labour parties in the uk right? Who’s a prominent enough democrat to take him on?
It's the difference between presidential systems and super-presidential systems. Unlike Canada and France, the President, once elected, is no longer a member of parliament or congress, but an entirely separate branch of government. So while the President may be the leader of the Republican Party, he is not the leader of the Republican congress. What's the big difference? Trump can't fire congressmen and senators he doesn't like. They don't work for him. In Canada and France, The Prime Minister and President respectively have direct control of the house representation. Compared to many other European style systems, the American President has much less direct power over the workings of government.
Well, unless said president is willing to break the spirit of every law on the books, if not the letter, in which case no one knows what to do or if they do they are unwilling to do it... so...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:16:12
Subject: Re:US Politics
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Future War Cultist wrote:America doesn’t have a parliamentary style system right? So there is no ‘leader of the Democratic Party’ in a similar vein to leader of the conservative or labour parties in the uk right?
Nothing official per se like the parliamentary system.
Who’s a prominent enough democrat to take him on?
Bernie Sanders (VT senator) may have another go...
Kristen Gillibrand (NY senator)
Cory Booker (NJ senator)
Andrew Cuomo (NY Gov)
Mike Bloomberg (NY mayor and bajillionaire dude)
...and then, there's Joe Biden.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:17:42
Subject: Re:US Politics
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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whembly wrote: Future War Cultist wrote:America doesn’t have a parliamentary style system right? So there is no ‘leader of the Democratic Party’ in a similar vein to leader of the conservative or labour parties in the uk right?
Nothing official per se like the parliamentary system.
Who’s a prominent enough democrat to take him on?
Bernie Sanders (VT senator) may have another go...
Kristen Gillibrand (NY senator)
Cory Booker (NJ senator)
Andrew Cuomo (NY Gov)
Mike Bloomberg (NY mayor and bajillionaire dude)
...and then, there's Joe Biden.
I think uncle Joe could win against Trump tbh
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:25:36
Subject: US Politics
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Blood Angel Chapter Master with Wings
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I think Uncle Joe would wreck Trump... Trump's 4th of July Fireworks BS extravaganza distraction crap won't work on him, Joe has the exact right tone I think to diffuse the illusion Trump spins around himself of being tough. On top of it, Joe would wreck him inside-out on anything to do with... well knowing anything specific about anything. I just wish he were a younger man. The dems really do need to clear out the oldies, Pellosi, Schumer even Bernie, need to step aside and let some new leadership carry the torch. At this point they are too entrenched in the right's vitriolic list of hate names to invoke at the first sign of distress. Fresh blood, one would hope, one would assume, would leave the right without their easiest weapons, simply saying the name of anyone on that list.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/02 02:28:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:27:52
Subject: US Politics
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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This is all of course assuming Trump makes it to 2020
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DQ:90S++G++M----B--I+Pw40k07+D+++A+++/areWD-R+DM+
bittersashes wrote:One guy down at my gaming club swore he saw an objective flag take out a full unit of Bane Thralls.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:27:58
Subject: US Politics
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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MajorTom11 wrote:I think Uncle Joe would wreck Trump... Trump's 4th of July Fireworks BS extravaganza distraction crap won't work on him, Joe has the exact right tone I think to diffuse the illusion Trump spins around himself of being tough. On top of it, Joe would wreck him inside-out on anything to do with... well knowing anything specific about anything.
I like Joe, but he's 127 years old and has been kicked in the teeth on multiple President ial campaigns.
Of the list noted I would say only Booker has a chance.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:30:39
Subject: US Politics
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Blood Angel Chapter Master with Wings
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^ Edited to reflect that above while you were quoting, I agree ultimately. Biden may be a perfect counterpoint to Trump, but for the health of politics in general, the aging leaders of the dem party needs to step aside so someone relatively new, like Obama in 2008, can come in unburdened by the free of charge hate and attacks Pelosi, Schumer and even Bernie can bring.
Corey Booker has a lot of potential, but he has not found a way to the national stage just yet. He has the spunk, but I am not sure if he has the cool.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:31:41
Subject: US Politics
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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Honestly I cannot think of one young democrat I am excited about for president. Booker has too many ties to Big Pharm for my liking Automatically Appended Next Post:
Possibly, the smart thing would be to damage him beyond repair and leave him in office, because the Theocrat that is next in line makes me nervous because the republicans would be more unified behind him
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/02 02:35:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:41:16
Subject: US Politics
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Blood Angel Chapter Master with Wings
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Ustrello wrote:Honestly I cannot think of one young democrat I am excited about for president. Booker has too many ties to Big Pharm for my liking
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Possibly, the smart thing would be to damage him beyond repair and leave him in office, because the Theocrat that is next in line makes me nervous because the republicans would be more unified behind him
Pence would be as big an abomination as Trump but in a different way. You are right about the party too, but being honest, it's not like they are acting like a seperate and co-equal branch as it is anyways. There are some things I regard as fundamentally American, and one of them was an aspirational spirit to be the city on the hill... I wonder if they will ever get that back, because right now it just seems like a race to the bottom on the right, 'I'll do anything the opponent ever has and not think twice' is not the way to grow a healthy society or individual.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:42:37
Subject: US Politics
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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Ustrello wrote:Honestly I cannot think of one young democrat I am excited about for president. Booker has too many ties to Big Pharm for my liking
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Possibly, the smart thing would be to damage him beyond repair and leave him in office, because the Theocrat that is next in line makes me nervous because the republicans would be more unified behind him
Oh yeah, I would agree, except it looks like basically everyone involved in Trump's campaign is up to their eyeballs with dealings with the Russians, from the lowest "coffee boy" all the way up to his "senior" advisers.
But I wouldn't count on Trump making it to 2020, I mean how many 70+ year old men do you know who eat ~4k calories per meal from McDonalds without any real exercise who are considered "healthy"? (And not the bs review from the WH doctor which clearly has his height wrong and just magically makes him land under obese by a tiny fraction of a pound)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/02 02:44:15
DQ:90S++G++M----B--I+Pw40k07+D+++A+++/areWD-R+DM+
bittersashes wrote:One guy down at my gaming club swore he saw an objective flag take out a full unit of Bane Thralls.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:46:22
Subject: US Politics
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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Wolfblade wrote: Ustrello wrote:Honestly I cannot think of one young democrat I am excited about for president. Booker has too many ties to Big Pharm for my liking
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Possibly, the smart thing would be to damage him beyond repair and leave him in office, because the Theocrat that is next in line makes me nervous because the republicans would be more unified behind him
Oh yeah, I would agree, except it looks like basically everyone involved in Trump's campaign is up to their eyeballs with dealings with the Russians, from the lowest "coffee boy" all the way up to his "senior" advisers.
But I wouldn't count on Trump making it to 2020, I mean how many 70+ year old men do you know who eat ~4k calories per meal from McDonalds without any real exercise who are considered "healthy"? (And not the bs review from the WH doctor which clearly has his height wrong and just magically makes him land under obese by a tiny fraction of a pound)
No I could see a stroke or heart attack happening at some point, because you are right he literally does not exercise
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:48:53
Subject: US Politics
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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MajorTom11 wrote:^ Edited to reflect that above while you were quoting, I agree ultimately. Biden may be a perfect counterpoint to Trump, but for the health of politics in general, the aging leaders of the dem party needs to step aside so someone relatively new, like Obama in 2008, can come in unburdened by the free of charge hate and attacks Pelosi, Schumer and even Bernie can bring.
Corey Booker has a lot of potential, but he has not found a way to the national stage just yet. He has the spunk, but I am not sure if he has the cool.
The other ones noted are old East Coast Liberal elites. Trump would go through them like crap through a goose.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:48:54
Subject: US Politics
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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Ustrello wrote: Wolfblade wrote: Ustrello wrote:Honestly I cannot think of one young democrat I am excited about for president. Booker has too many ties to Big Pharm for my liking
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Possibly, the smart thing would be to damage him beyond repair and leave him in office, because the Theocrat that is next in line makes me nervous because the republicans would be more unified behind him
Oh yeah, I would agree, except it looks like basically everyone involved in Trump's campaign is up to their eyeballs with dealings with the Russians, from the lowest "coffee boy" all the way up to his "senior" advisers.
But I wouldn't count on Trump making it to 2020, I mean how many 70+ year old men do you know who eat ~4k calories per meal from McDonalds without any real exercise who are considered "healthy"? (And not the bs review from the WH doctor which clearly has his height wrong and just magically makes him land under obese by a tiny fraction of a pound)
No I could see a stroke or heart attack happening at some point, because you are right he literally does not exercise
In addition to not eating healthy, yeah. I'm not even trying to be malicious (if I was I'd just point to his tiny hands or failed tax policy), but realistic about his health.
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DQ:90S++G++M----B--I+Pw40k07+D+++A+++/areWD-R+DM+
bittersashes wrote:One guy down at my gaming club swore he saw an objective flag take out a full unit of Bane Thralls.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 02:58:19
Subject: US Politics
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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Wolfblade wrote: Ustrello wrote: Wolfblade wrote: Ustrello wrote:Honestly I cannot think of one young democrat I am excited about for president. Booker has too many ties to Big Pharm for my liking
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Possibly, the smart thing would be to damage him beyond repair and leave him in office, because the Theocrat that is next in line makes me nervous because the republicans would be more unified behind him
Oh yeah, I would agree, except it looks like basically everyone involved in Trump's campaign is up to their eyeballs with dealings with the Russians, from the lowest "coffee boy" all the way up to his "senior" advisers.
But I wouldn't count on Trump making it to 2020, I mean how many 70+ year old men do you know who eat ~4k calories per meal from McDonalds without any real exercise who are considered "healthy"? (And not the bs review from the WH doctor which clearly has his height wrong and just magically makes him land under obese by a tiny fraction of a pound)
No I could see a stroke or heart attack happening at some point, because you are right he literally does not exercise
In addition to not eating healthy, yeah. I'm not even trying to be malicious (if I was I'd just point to his tiny hands or failed tax policy), but realistic about his health.
I honestly think it is fine talking about his health because it is in the national interest for us to have a healthy president, of which Trump is obviously not
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 05:19:01
Subject: US Politics
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Frazzled wrote: MajorTom11 wrote:^ Edited to reflect that above while you were quoting, I agree ultimately. Biden may be a perfect counterpoint to Trump, but for the health of politics in general, the aging leaders of the dem party needs to step aside so someone relatively new, like Obama in 2008, can come in unburdened by the free of charge hate and attacks Pelosi, Schumer and even Bernie can bring.
Corey Booker has a lot of potential, but he has not found a way to the national stage just yet. He has the spunk, but I am not sure if he has the cool.
The other ones noted are old East Coast Liberal elites. Trump would go through them like crap through a goose.
This. The Left Coasters, New York Champaign Socialists, and New England Bluebloods all need to be purged from the party, for the Democrats to ever be a serious contender again. It was those types running the party into the ground that helped Trump triump over Killary.
The Democratic Party needs fresh meat and a change of platform. But judging from the "news" media, and continued pandering to the loonies on the Left (i.e. those that considers anybody right of Mao as a "fascist" or "nazi"), they are not going to do that. They're going to continue to push California and New England "progressivism" on the rest of the country, the ones who don't feel the need for Big Brother to wipe their asses for them everyday. And that is addition to playing the so-called "protected groups" (minorities, illegal aliens, homosexuals, etc) like a fiddle to keep the support (and votes) coming from those quarters. Their traditional sacred cows (gun control, the race card, etc) are just going to keep them on the losing end of the stage, except in their bastions of support (and even this isn't a guarantee).
That means either Trump will go back in in 2020, or if he decides to not run for re-election, Mike Pence. Unless the Democrats pull a magic rabbit out of their asses between now and then, puts up somebody fresh, and start sticking with the important things that actually matter on the national stage. Then, they might have a chance of bouncing back in 2020.
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Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 05:53:07
Subject: US Politics
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Blood Angel Chapter Master with Wings
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Yeah, agree the old school needs to step aside. Disagree that gun control and race issues will keep them losing. Also disagree the 'news' is applying to super leftists and pushing that agenda. The 'news' may lean left, but they tend to give a crap about facts and are willing to question their 'own side', more often than you might think.
The news doesn't cover Trump all the time negatively because they are making it up. He's a disaster. He's unamerican. Or, he's unamerican compared to the values of most of the country, compared to what America stood for for the past 80 years, and compared to Republicans just 15 years ago. Reagan and Lincoln are spinning in their graves, these were not men given to moral compromise and lessening the spirit of aspiration the country used to stand for.
Dems are going to wreck in November. 2020? I don't know... not yet. All depends on whether or not Republicans want to preside over the end of their party. This temporary armistice between moderate/classical Republicans and racist, xenophobic, fiscally irresponsible, do nothing not based in hatred of the other gakkers will not last forever. At some point, the center has to give. The alt-right Trumpers don't have the numbers, the message of the means to last, a whole generation of people who hate the fear and bullgak is about to come up to voting age, and they ain't havin it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 08:17:21
Subject: US Politics
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Honestly I feel like the Republicans are going to get destroyed in the next few years, they'll reorganize their gak and get away from the Xenophobia, and come back swinging and take control again for a while.
EDIT: I Mean, someone from Backwater, USA, is going to pretty safely vote Republican unless they do a 180 and go super left wing and embracing everything that a racist from Backwater, USA would hate. Why appeal to them more then you have to?
What both sides seem to need to learn is that messages of "Man, look at that guy, lol" like some of the Republicans ran against Obama and what the Democrats ran against Trump don't work in an election. Trump, while flinging his poop around, did appeal to people to rebuild and make things better, much like how Obama beat the drums of good change.
I could see the Dems blowing it if they run an old, tired leftie that runs almost purely on "Screw that Trump guy". Biden might be the exception, though that could be me wanting to see the amazing headlines Biden would produce with other world leaders.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/02 08:18:27
warboss wrote:Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 11:05:13
Subject: Re:US Politics
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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The last two Republican presidents got into the White House despite having less votes than their opponent. The Republicans haven't gotten a non-incumbent president who was more popular than his opponent since before I was born.
If you want voter participation to increase, you gotta start with moving to some sort of proportional representation. There's currently no point for a Republican in California or a Democrat in Texas to vote in the presidential elections. Millions of voters are effectively disenfranchised because they live in the wrong states. The only problem is that it's unlikely in the extreme that the Republicans would agree to reform, because they're only getting their candidates into the White House through the current system's bias in the first place.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 11:30:34
Subject: Re:US Politics
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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AlmightyWalrus wrote:The last two Republican presidents got into the White House despite having less votes than their opponent. The Republicans haven't gotten a non-incumbent president who was more popular than his opponent since before I was born.
Well, as long as they concentrate on old white people and the things that scare them, they have nothing to worry about, since those demographics are never, ever going to shift, right?
I agree with proportional representation. I'd love to see the interstate compact take effect. I think though that the 2 things we all agree on but will never change is the switch to metric, and the electoral college.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/02 11:33:09
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 11:54:05
Subject: US Politics
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Douglas Bader
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Crazyterran wrote:I could see the Dems blowing it if they run an old, tired leftie that runs almost purely on "Screw that Trump guy".
Got to disagree. Trump has been such an utter debacle, with such low approval ratings from everyone but his most rabid followers (who are going to vote for Trump no matter what), that "hey, we're at least marginally competent" is about all you need. If we go back and re-vote 2016, knowing what we know now, Clinton wins a landslide.
Trump, while flinging his poop around, did appeal to people to rebuild and make things better
And this is the sad truth of US politics. Trump talked about making things better, but it was all lies and we knew it was all lies. But the con man sold his followers a pile of lies with enough charisma and desperate people bought it. I mean, this was an election supposedly won by people frustrated with the economy and unemployed in key swing states, and they believed "I will save your jobs" lies from someone who built his wealth by screwing over his employees at every opportunity. US politics is going to be a mess as long as this kind of thing keeps happening. And the sad part is I have no idea how you fix the situation, too many people have too much contempt for the idea of facts and reasonable policy debate.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 13:15:41
Subject: US Politics
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Peregrine wrote:And this is the sad truth of US politics. Trump talked about making things better, but it was all lies and we knew it was all lies. But the con man sold his followers a pile of lies with enough charisma and desperate people bought it.
Yes, HRC said the coal jobs were never coming back, and coal miners needed to be retrained and eased into new industries. Trump said he'd bring all those coal jobs back. People found that more believable.
Sheer insanity. But will those people, after seeing how he's managed to build an entire established infrastructure out of grifters, losers, has-beens and never was-s, playing a weekly game of Presidential Apprentice, admit that they were wrong? It was a pretty obvious lie even at the time.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 13:31:42
Subject: US Politics
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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?
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Here's a question. Since we're asking who's the future of the Democratic Party, who's the future of the Republican Party?
Some people like to trot out the line that Trump only won because Hillary was "that bad", but that same reason would also apply to everyone on the Republican side who ran against Trump, meaning Rubio, Jeb, Cruz, etc., were also all "that bad".
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"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 13:45:01
Subject: US Politics
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Ephrata, PA
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Tannhauser42 wrote:Here's a question. Since we're asking who's the future of the Democratic Party, who's the future of the Republican Party?
Some people like to trot out the line that Trump only won because Hillary was "that bad", but that same reason would also apply to everyone on the Republican side who ran against Trump, meaning Rubio, Jeb, Cruz, etc., were also all "that bad".
Thus we come to the crux of the problem. Trump is a clear sign our political system is broken, and there is no easy answer. It's been the same old people with the same old ideologies and policies for far too long, and all he had to do was say "I'm not one of them".
It is time for change.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 14:24:11
Subject: Re:US Politics
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Again, that's a result of the Electoral College. The main issue wasn't that people were too tired of the "same old", it's that some people's votes are worth more than others and that these people were comvinced to vote Trump.
Ripped off of Wiki, for 2012:
A vote in Wyoming is worth more than three times a vote in New York. Even ignoring the monumental bias that a first past the post system introduces, this is just dumb. A vote in Maine or New Hampshire is literally 3/5ths of a Wyoming vote.
When a large number of the voters are effectively disenfranchised, of course the system is broken. Shuffling around the candidates doesn't change the fact that you have a system that's the antithesis of egalitarianism.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/02 14:24:32
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 14:42:05
Subject: US Politics
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Blood Angel Chapter Master with Wings
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Y'know, it's pretty amazing that A) This conversation didn't immediately devolve into a complete gak show and B) There is consensus that at the very least, things are not going well and whomever you support, this is not a good time for American politics.
I have been watching the politics in the US avidly for years, I have lived there several times and I believe in America, despite some very ugly problems that stem mostly from the right. Religion and guns having undue influence in politics, the resistance to equality are big problems. The methodical devaluation or twisting of the very idea of ethics and morality. Most of all though, the systematic attack on facts, expertise, merit and results driven decisions is the biggest casualty of all.
If you have a society that cares about facts and objective results, then you automatically have a bulwark against propaganda and outright lies, right now, that isn't there.
I know I sound mega left when I speak, but the truth is I am pretty independent and open to conservative policy. I only care about results. Smaller government sounds good to me, but only if the results show it is as effective at large, or, that the savings is so huge it outweighs a loss in effectiveness. I am open to looking at immigration. I am open to finance reform (from the former conservative position of fiscal responsibility). But the thing is, the right is just ideological at this point. There is no care for examination or honest evaluation. They are just for or against, and they will act accordingly regardless of whatever experts say. The EPA. Immigration. Finance law. Tariffs. Trade. Just bulldozing through all of it with no regard for a decade from now, just an eye towards the immediate impact tomorrow and nothing else.
I am not against conservatism in general with a few exceptions - I believe in equality, including gender, race and orientation, I believe in environmental protection, I believe guns are a sickness in American society, not that they should be wiped out, but that far more control could be enacted that could actually help. It used to be there was still room for someone to be a Republican and be supportive of what I just listed. Not anymore. When did guns become a core pillar of being a Republican? I am open to conservatism, but I am against the GOP. Most are a bunch of goddam snakes who's word means nothing, who act against their core beliefs if the price is right, and who are enabling the sick man put in office. Few exceptions, made all the more stark that I can count them on one hand, McCain, Corker, Flake and Graham to a lesser degree. I don't like Grahams positions on a lot of things, but at least he will say what he thinks for real. I am sure there are a few others, but damn, if I was a conservative in the states I would be even madder at the current GOP and the changes they are making than i was at the dems.
And I will almost definitely be moving to the states this summer, and while I am very excited, i am also very concerned about where this is all going if the country, left and right, doesn't say eff this bs, let's talk facts and results, propaganda is not welcome.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/02 14:47:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 14:50:15
Subject: US Politics
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[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth
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I wonder if going through this now might help us as a nation in the long run, though. If people rely on what they read online without considering the source, our country's democracy was always going to be vulnerable to outside influence.
We see it to an even greater extent with the lack of campaign finance reform domestically, too! A wake up call that people need to try to tune out the noise and hear from candidates or reliable sources directly could really help matters. That's what I'm telling myself, anyway
And now I need to know what part of the states you're moving to, Tom, I really enjoyed our political debates in-person at AdeptiCon quite a few years ago
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/02 14:51:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 14:50:37
Subject: US Politics
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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I just watch the local chariot races to decide my vote.
I will say this. I have never seen so many people at my local political off-year causus as I did this year. I also saw new people getting involved on the committees and chair positions.
I think people are starting to get a bit more enegaged in politics. Possibly more than they have been since the first Obama election.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 14:51:39
Subject: Re:US Politics
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Sneaky Kommando
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AlmightyWalrus wrote:Again, that's a result of the Electoral College. The main issue wasn't that people were too tired of the "same old", it's that some people's votes are worth more than others and that these people were comvinced to vote Trump.
Ripped off of Wiki, for 2012:
A vote in Wyoming is worth more than three times a vote in New York. Even ignoring the monumental bias that a first past the post system introduces, this is just dumb. A vote in Maine or New Hampshire is literally 3/5ths of a Wyoming vote.
When a large number of the voters are effectively disenfranchised, of course the system is broken. Shuffling around the candidates doesn't change the fact that you have a system that's the antithesis of egalitarianism.
I'm going to preface this by saying I did not vote in the last presidential election since I found both major party candidates to be morally corrupt to say the least. But the electoral college was somewhat designed with this in mind to ensure that the smaller communities would be able to check the power of the larger communities, see the federalist papers #10. I'm not saying that this check is well balanced since it can lessen the worth of a vote as you pointed out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/04/02 14:56:17
Subject: Re:US Politics
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Ephrata, PA
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AlmightyWalrus wrote:Again, that's a result of the Electoral College. The main issue wasn't that people were too tired of the "same old", it's that some people's votes are worth more than others and that these people were comvinced to vote Trump.
Ripped off of Wiki, for 2012:
A vote in Wyoming is worth more than three times a vote in New York. Even ignoring the monumental bias that a first past the post system introduces, this is just dumb. A vote in Maine or New Hampshire is literally 3/5ths of a Wyoming vote.
When a large number of the voters are effectively disenfranchised, of course the system is broken. Shuffling around the candidates doesn't change the fact that you have a system that's the antithesis of egalitarianism.
You are talking about just the results of the election, which brings up the flaws in our electoral college. I'm referring to the fact that Donald Trump not only managed to come out of left field and browbeat the republican party into backing him over a whole host of other "qualified" candidates, but won the election (due to the EC), and wasn't THAT far behind HRC in the popular vote in terms of the number of registered voters we have. The fact that any of that happened, despite his behavior, and all the dirt dug up on him, is indicative that our system is broken.
(Disclaimer: I am a moderate, refused to vote for either of them, and feel completely abandoned by both sides, which is another issue we have)
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