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Each edition had its flaws for sure, i think the best outta all of them was 5th, minus vehicles rules. 7th was good, aside from formations costing no points, an the psyker phase.

8th is a good foundation to build a better game ontop of. I think 8th for the most part should remain but with some key changes
- bring back vehicle faces and give a bonus to hitting the rear of a vehicle.
- bring back old moral system
- Put a cap on modifiers
- get rid of the fact that EVERYTHING has an invuln save.
- get rid of being able to pile into enemy units that you did not charge.
- get rid of all the randomized damage tables on a lot of weapons, and random shots, make weapons more stable to use.
- put a cap on CP that can be generated via traits or relics
- put in an allies system like sigmar, so at various point levels you have your main army and are allotted x amount of points for allies that are not part of your main army.

overall 8th is ok, but has a lot of issues, most to do with ambiguity in rules as well. From a lore stand point, primaras were a horrible idea.

The only good part about 8-th rules is psy phase. If you take 7-th edition, mix it with 8-th psy phase and studio's effort to balance stuff and get faqs off, you'll end with a much better game. But as is, it's too shallow to be really interesting which is a damn shame. Their own swa is much-much more interesting and tactically deep. And a thinned down necromunda reboot is all that swa is. Yet still.

 koooaei wrote:
The only good part about 8-th rules is psy phase. If you take 7-th edition, mix it with 8-th psy phase and studio's effort to balance stuff and get faqs off, you'll end with a much better game. But as is, it's too shallow to be really interesting which is a damn shame. Their own swa is much-much more interesting and tactically deep. And a thinned down necromunda reboot is all that swa is. Yet still.

This is pretty spot on. If i could get 7th back with 8th psyker phase, i would be happy.

4th was my favorite edition. I left during 6-7th 8th was like Anakin for me, so much potential, ruined by the dark side.

Nope.

I play it solely because it's the game in town. 30K is starting to pick back up though, and I have zero compunctions against jumping ship back to that.

I only started playing in 7th so not much of a comparison to make for me- I prefer 8th by far, the only thing I’m not as keen on is the flattening of the strength/toughness chart. +1 to either used to feel like a big deal whereas it’s a bit lacklustre now.

wict01 wrote:
I only started playing in 7th so not much of a comparison to make for me- I prefer 8th by far, the only thing I’m not as keen on is the flattening of the strength/toughness chart. +1 to either used to feel like a big deal whereas it’s a bit lacklustre now.

I really miss the old wounding chart

8th edtion is the reason why my 10+ player gaming group have all dropped 40k.

AOS is the reason my other 10+ player gaming group stopped supporting GW "fantasy".

I see tons of models and terrain gathering dust as they sit unused on the shelf. It's sad.

hobojebus wrote:

Nah vlka frenryka!

I won't get my codex till October if gossip proves true, not that I have any faith they'll deliver a codex that'll bring me back.

The codex writing in 8th has been far better for the game than it was in 7th. For all of the issues that 8th edition suffers from, Codex writing is not the biggest. Sure, Grey Knights are a dumpster fire, but I think they are currently the biggest outlier. The big environment deforming things are specific models, not entire factions. The game is not revolving around having access to 1 or 2 psychic powers. There's enough flexibility with the detachments to have some fun, but not completely off the rails like formations were. The competitive spacing between the factions is not that great of a chasm, though certain factions lingering on indexes is getting quite bothersome. Like why are we getting Imperial Knights before Orcs? Why are orcs, one of the flagship armies of the game, still lingering on as an index almost a year after the game launch, and especially after a bunch of sub-sub-faction codexes were released?

8th is definitely not perfect, but for all of its flaws... it is not nearly as bad off as 7th was this many releases into its life.

What do I miss about 7th? Knowing that I'd automatically win a tournament if I brought out my Eldar. That's about it.

I wish 8th had more interactions with terrain and that Fortifications were useful. The deployment system is also tedious and takes too long. Overall I really like it though. There is a lot more variety in what units are viable, and I have used many models for the first time in over a decade. When I brought a Defiler in 7th, people stopped and asked if we were playing Oldhammer

As a CSM/"IG"(Renegades) player it's a great time. Now I'm just waiting for FW to release proper rules for my Renegades..

This thread gave me an ulcer. Good grief.

GrafWattenburg wrote:
What do I miss about 7th? Knowing that I'd automatically win a tournament if I brought out my Eldar. That's about it.

I wish 8th had more interactions with terrain and that Fortifications were useful. The deployment system is also tedious and takes too long. Overall I really like it though. There is a lot more variety in what units are viable, and I have used many models for the first time in over a decade. When I brought a Defiler in 7th, people stopped and asked if we were playing Oldhammer

As a CSM/"IG"(Renegades) player it's a great time. Now I'm just waiting for FW to release proper rules for my Renegades..

Off topic a bit, but do you mind if I PM you about renegades? I've got questions...

GrafWattenburg wrote:
What do I miss about 7th? Knowing that I'd automatically win a tournament if I brought out my Eldar. That's about it.

I wish 8th had more interactions with terrain and that Fortifications were useful. The deployment system is also tedious and takes too long. Overall I really like it though. There is a lot more variety in what units are viable, and I have used many models for the first time in over a decade. When I brought a Defiler in 7th, people stopped and asked if we were playing Oldhammer

As a CSM/"IG"(Renegades) player it's a great time. Now I'm just waiting for FW to release proper rules for my Renegades..

Don't worry, they'll get to removing your HQ options soon enough. RIP corsairs

My friend plays renegades, too. They're in a bad place right now :(

But still fun to play against!

 kodos wrote:
For AoS, GW learned that minis alone do not make people playing it and they need to bring good rules to stop the game from dying

40k is selling good enough and just the announcement of "new style GW" brought people back, so no one really cares about the rules as long as sales are going well

 Formosa wrote:

Oh and come on people, 7th rules were not that bad, it was the CODEXS !!! that caused most of the issues, the main ruleset had a few problems but they could have been easily fixed.

same as 8th edition core rules are not that bad
and using 8th core rules with Index Power Points on small scale (50 PP) is still a good game

the advanced and codex rules that are killing it

7th edi core rules are fine, that is why HorusHeresy is still a very good game

Yep, 8th has some good rules, some bad rules too, personally I was really hoping they made the psy phase like 8th fantasy, you know.... interactive, not every race needs a wizard to take part, some races got bonus (tau could have +1 to dispel and necrons +2, kinda like dwarfs)

Im not sure 40k has ever had a best edition. 5th is probably the closest overall (4th's issues with consoldiating into new combats, nonfunctional transport rules, and enormous skimmer vs nonskimmer gap really kill it for me) but had its own major problems as well (Kill Points which we sadly are still stuck with, No Retreat, vehicle secondary weapons being pointless, some really awful codex writing both fluff and rules).

8E is...better than anything we have had since 2012. 6E and 7E were unmitigated disasters in almost every conceivable way, and nothing of value was lost in their passing. They were the absolute low points of 40k history in terms of balance, rules cleanliness, cost, functionality, complexity (remember, complexity !=depth), and playability, not to mention GW's revenue and market share.

Does that make 8E the best ever? No, it has a host of major flaws, but its a definite improvement.

I've played since second edition, and yes, I's say 8th is the best edition. It is far from perfect, but it is still an improvement on all the preceding editions.

I like it much more than 6th and 7th.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I like it much more than 6th and 7th.

7th was rough but man, 6th was just memes the edition

Never forget that GW introduced flyers in 6th and provided no form of Anti air untill close to the end of 6th.

For me I have to strongly disagree with 8th being the best edition because I genuinely do not have fun playing 8th. All the "balance" and ease of entry aren't worth a whole lot if the core game isn't very compelling. I feel like 7th had a lot of problems with some very poor balance decisions but the meat of 7th was there and would of been a lot better if GW gave a damn about balance when they wrote the codexes and actually fixed some of the more broken stuff (invis and rerolling 2+ saves for example).

I'm having a lot of fun with 8th edition now that i have a codex.

But I play Tyranids. It's fun not being a total doormat for the first time ever.

I think there are only a few things I'd like to see changed in 8th, otherwise I am fine with it as is. Mind you, these are core rule changes, and not individual unit balancing that is still needed.

I'd like to see a bit more cover work. Although it would be interesting to see variable cover(-1, -2, and so on), I'd just like cover to just work more than not. That is, more dependent on LOS than if the model is on top of the terrain or not.

The second thing I'd like to see changed is the removal of all -1 to hit chapter/craftworld/faction trait. I feel like they favor people picking one faction above another, and are very unfair for armies that have gakky BS. These things should also not stack.

Otherwise I am fine with the rest, although I'd love to see stratagems visited and balanced. Would be interesting to see if some stratagems could be limited to once per game or something like that.

I don't know how people can say that the balance in 8th edition is bad.

Is, probably, the most balanced edition of any GW wargame ever that is not LOTR or Ravening Hordes for 6th edition of Warhammer: Fantasy.

And is the first time they are actually trying to balance the game with FAQ's, Chapter Approves, etc... instead of just putting a Codex out and let it be for 5-7 years.

In others edition we would still be here, facing Guilliman+Stormraven spam all day, or 150 Conscripts blobs. Yeah, now we have Dark Reaper Spam and Flyrants and Poxwalkers farms... but those lists wheren there 5 months ago! The meta is changing from one month to the next. How amazing is that.

I'm having a ton of fun playing this even in tournaments. With my crappy Dark Angel lists I have faced some of the most competitive lists, and some times I have been tabled without doing anything (Mostly by my own mistakes in placement and deployment), but other times even with a much inferior lists I have been able to fight back.

 Galas wrote:
I don't know how people can say that the balance in 8th edition is bad.

Is, probably, the most balanced edition of any GW wargame ever that is not LOTR or Ravening Hordes for 6th edition of Warhammer: Fantasy.

And is the first time they are actually trying to balance the game with FAQ's, Chapter Approves, etc... instead of just putting a Codex out and let it be for 5-7 years.

In others edition we would still be here, facing Guilliman+Stormraven spam all day, or 150 Conscripts blobs. Yeah, now we have Dark Reaper Spam and Flyrants and Poxwalkers farms... but those lists wheren there 5 months ago! The meta is changing from one month to the next. How amazing is that.

I'm having a ton of fun playing this even in tournaments. With my crappy Dark Angel lists I have faced some of the most competitive lists, and some times I have been tabled without doing anything (Mostly by my own mistakes in placement and deployment), but other times even with a much inferior lists I have been able to fight back.

Eeeeehhhhhhh not really, game had horrible balance issues at the start. All non codex armies are not really useable. Some faction and soup combos are just brutal to the point of stupidity. Eldar dark reapers for example. There is a massive amount of rule ambiguity causing problems. It's balanced but not that balanced.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:
Its not going to matter to you what I enjoy about it, but without going into long detail, I like the terrain rules, I vastly prefer how the vehicles worked.

Yes, it was far superior when I came across an army of 3 knights that 99% of my army could not wound. Or having my Land Raider be blown up by a single Lascannon shot when I was going second. I see now that 7th was the superior game system!

You forgot about anti infantry weapons being better at killing tanks than anti tank weapons. That was great.

Scatterbikes: the terror of the Imperial Knights because of side AV 12.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I don't know how people can say that the balance in 8th edition is bad.

Is, probably, the most balanced edition of any GW wargame ever that is not LOTR or Ravening Hordes for 6th edition of Warhammer: Fantasy.

And is the first time they are actually trying to balance the game with FAQ's, Chapter Approves, etc... instead of just putting a Codex out and let it be for 5-7 years.

In others edition we would still be here, facing Guilliman+Stormraven spam all day, or 150 Conscripts blobs. Yeah, now we have Dark Reaper Spam and Flyrants and Poxwalkers farms... but those lists wheren there 5 months ago! The meta is changing from one month to the next. How amazing is that.

I'm having a ton of fun playing this even in tournaments. With my crappy Dark Angel lists I have faced some of the most competitive lists, and some times I have been tabled without doing anything (Mostly by my own mistakes in placement and deployment), but other times even with a much inferior lists I have been able to fight back.

Eeeeehhhhhhh not really, game had horrible balance issues at the start. All non codex armies are not really useable. Some faction and soup combos are just brutal to the point of stupidity. Eldar dark reapers for example. There is a massive amount of rule ambiguity causing problems. It's balanced but not that balanced.

Thing is I don't fear those nasty lists as much. I have a good chance playing TAC in ITC style games.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I don't know how people can say that the balance in 8th edition is bad.

Is, probably, the most balanced edition of any GW wargame ever that is not LOTR or Ravening Hordes for 6th edition of Warhammer: Fantasy.

And is the first time they are actually trying to balance the game with FAQ's, Chapter Approves, etc... instead of just putting a Codex out and let it be for 5-7 years.

In others edition we would still be here, facing Guilliman+Stormraven spam all day, or 150 Conscripts blobs. Yeah, now we have Dark Reaper Spam and Flyrants and Poxwalkers farms... but those lists wheren there 5 months ago! The meta is changing from one month to the next. How amazing is that.

I'm having a ton of fun playing this even in tournaments. With my crappy Dark Angel lists I have faced some of the most competitive lists, and some times I have been tabled without doing anything (Mostly by my own mistakes in placement and deployment), but other times even with a much inferior lists I have been able to fight back.

Eeeeehhhhhhh not really, game had horrible balance issues at the start. All non codex armies are not really useable. Some faction and soup combos are just brutal to the point of stupidity. Eldar dark reapers for example. There is a massive amount of rule ambiguity causing problems. It's balanced but not that balanced.

We are still talking GW games here, so of course is not perfectly balanced. About non codex armies not being usable... well. Thats a given, Index are what they are, a stop-gap, it sucks to be a index army for a full year, but someone had to be last.
The balance between codex armies is much better than previous editions. All codex have weak and strong units, but really theres only one Codex that you can say "Yeah this is broken in the bad sense" and thats Grey Knights.

But the balance between Mid-Tier Codexes and High Tier Codexes is much, much better than ever. Even facing a mid of the road list vs a top-competitive lists.

Yeah it's better after getting lots of nerfs which I give GW credit for. Guard for example have been the most nerfed army of 8th and are still crazy strong.

8th edition is the reason my LGS (which sold GW stuff at 20% off) went from nearly fully stocked to empty shelves every visit.
I can no longer go to the LGS and make an impulse buy because their is nearly NOTHING on their entire wall, which used to have hundreds of boxes (which is probably good, but it does suck).

My area seems to love 8th and it is clearly drawing in new players

 Galef wrote:
8th edition is the reason my LGS (which sold GW stuff at 20% off) went from nearly fully stocked to empty shelves every visit.
I can no longer go to the LGS and make an impulse buy because their is nearly NOTHING on their entire wall, which used to have hundreds of boxes (which is probably good, but it does suck).

My area seems to love 8th and it is clearly drawing in new players

8th edition just plays well in my opinion. It may have issues and all, but damn it plays well. I am seeing more and more people locally joining in on 8th due to that. I think some of the reasons why it plays better is that they removed templates and vehicle facings. Means less debating and more playing.