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If I brought aImperial knight in a casual friendly game, would it make me TFG? I just mostly want it for the models and fluff reasons, but I'm not sure if I should.

Even at their most competitive, Imperial Knights were good at best. You're fine.

Only complaint for a super heavy is one of those Baneblade variants and the Necron Pylon. That's about it.

Superheavies were a problem in 5-7th when 50% of your list had an armor value, but your opponent didn’t bring enough antitank. So you ended up with all your other stuff dead but the superheavy stomping around with no way to deal with it.

Now that anything can be wounded by any weapon, it’s not nearly as bad. You still have weapons like lascannon that are exceptionally suited to taking out big stuff, but even an army of grots can handle a baneblade or knight given time. Or at least degrade them enough to be less of a threat.

Yes if you don't say ahead of time, springing a super heavy on someone is a dick move.

hobojebus wrote:
Yes if you don't say ahead of time, springing a super heavy on someone is a dick move.

I'd think it would be more of a relief than an unhappy surprise if someone took an IK against me.

Why not? Even in 7th edition, Knights, Wraithknight and Stormsurge are common sights even in friendly games.

I played against Big M yesterday in a friendly game. While he's a pain to go against, I'm so used to seeing him on the board now it doesn't bother me. At this point if rather see any other SH, Morty is getting boring to play against.

Plasma, melta, and lascannon-like weapons seem to common in 8th that a knight really isn't anything more than a point sink. Several of them can be really deadly, but if you aren't just playing a kill points game it won't be any sort of issue. 5 knights sounds scary until you realize you can just swamp an objective and the knight will never be able to take it.

Thanks guys. I Think I might just get a few more russ' and Stormtroopers (Scions?)

If you are playing a friendly game, why not have a brief chat in advance anyway? You want to make the most of the game.

I would say you're fine. "Super heavies" don't really exist in 8th edition, as everything is on a mostly even playing field.

Bringing a knight in a friendly game doesn't make anyone TFG. Brining an army that is cleary overpowered for the meta and refusing to tone it down makes someone TFG.

Play the list you want to field, if after a few games it doesn't stomp all the opponents without effort it means that it's fine, even with a knight included.

Sire122 wrote:
If I brought aImperial knight in a casual friendly game, would it make me TFG? I just mostly want it for the models and fluff reasons, but I'm not sure if I should.

you could always ask first

No, LoW are not really a big deal aanymore, and in 8th knights are really meh to begin with. As mentioned its not until you bring a bane blade list you need to ask.

 Badablack wrote:
Superheavies were a problem in 5-7th when 50% of your list had an armor value, but your opponent didn’t bring enough antitank. So you ended up with all your other stuff dead but the superheavy stomping around with no way to deal with it.

Now that anything can be wounded by any weapon, it’s not nearly as bad. You still have weapons like lascannon that are exceptionally suited to taking out big stuff, but even an army of grots can handle a baneblade or knight given time. Or at least degrade them enough to be less of a threat.

Without disagreeing with you, I'd like to point out that it's not possible to kill a knight with gretchin. You would need to keep 173 of them within 12" around the knight for five turns in order to kill it on average.

Knights need an upgrade. Those Gretchen would still have a harder time killing a landraider. Also wave serpent s are currently a lot more durable than knights.

If you bring a Knight, it is generally expected these days and most won't bat an eyelid.

Bring a Baneblade or Supremacy Suit and probably best to make your opponent aware beforehand.

Anything Warhound upwards you best damned well tell your opponent what is coming and don't be offended if they refuse to play you.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Anything Warhound upwards you best damned well tell your opponent what is coming and don't be offended if they refuse to play you.

Are you being serious? All FW super heavies got hit with the nerf nuke, making them some of the most overcosted, unplayable units in the game. I wouldn't take a warhound to a game, not because it's unfair on my opponent but because I know I'd get plastered by turn 2.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Anything Warhound upwards you best damned well tell your opponent what is coming and don't be offended if they refuse to play you.

Are you being serious? All FW super heavies got hit with the nerf nuke, making them some of the most overcosted, unplayable units in the game. I wouldn't take a warhound to a game, not because it's unfair on my opponent but because I know I'd get plastered by turn 2.

Deadly.

I wasn't commenting on points efficiency merely what they are capable of. Especially if an army isn't tailored for dealing with something like that.

If you can't deal with overpriced junk that warhound is maybe take hard look at your army and tactics? Sounds like bringing all grot army and then make mass rush into close combat with every model making sure you aren't even accidently in objects. That's how bad they are. They were poor to begin with and then gw nerfed them even more.

 Badablack wrote:

Now that anything can be wounded by any weapon, it’s not nearly as bad. You still have weapons like lascannon that are exceptionally suited to taking out big stuff, but even an army of grots can handle a baneblade or knight given time.

I'm not sure it's quite that simple...

A naked Shadowsword (one of the cheaper AM super heavies) costs 404. That's the same price as 101 Guardsmen.

101 guardsmen rapid firing will do an anerage of 5.61 wounds a turn to the Shadowsword. As the Shadowsword has 26 wounds, that's 5 turns of sustained fire, if they don't incur any losses in the meantime.

While in theory anything can wound anything, in an actual game you do NEED decent anti armour weaponry to kill super heavies.

The real question is: do you actually need to kill the super heavies at all?

Where they've really been nerfed isn't the wound chart, but in the removal of templates. They are going have a much harder time deleting hordes this edition. So in our hypothetical above of a Shadowsword Vs 101 guardsmen, if it were an actual game the guardsmen would camp objectives and the Shadowsword would be able to do very little to stop them winning on VP.

.. someone complaining about a single IK is a dick move

 Backspacehacker wrote:
No, LoW are not really a big deal aanymor

They really weren't a big deal to begin with. Outside Wraithknights and the Primarchs, who was an issue last edition?

And in this edition, what is an issue outside the one Baneblade variant and the Pylon and the Primarchs? None.

Anyone saying the slot is broken is just some old player that refuses change and would rather see the same models every single game, in a game that doesn't evolve.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Anything Warhound upwards you best damned well tell your opponent what is coming and don't be offended if they refuse to play you.

Are you being serious? All FW super heavies got hit with the nerf nuke, making them some of the most overcosted, unplayable units in the game. I wouldn't take a warhound to a game, not because it's unfair on my opponent but because I know I'd get plastered by turn 2.

Deadly.

I wasn't commenting on points efficiency merely what they are capable of. Especially if an army isn't tailored for dealing with something like that.

What they're capable of is not taking on 2000 points on their own and that's what they cost now.

Seriously, if you can't take on a Warhound with your whole army then you're doing something wrong.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Anything Warhound upwards you best damned well tell your opponent what is coming and don't be offended if they refuse to play you.

Are you being serious? All FW super heavies got hit with the nerf nuke, making them some of the most overcosted, unplayable units in the game. I wouldn't take a warhound to a game, not because it's unfair on my opponent but because I know I'd get plastered by turn 2.

Deadly.

I wasn't commenting on points efficiency merely what they are capable of. Especially if an army isn't tailored for dealing with something like that.

It's all about points efficiency; it doesn't matter if a single unit can pop 200-300pts a turn if the units itself costs 2000pts, it's not going to earn its points back, it's not going to table its opponant and it's not going to win on objectives. The best it can hope for is surviving the game.

Yeah, bring one. At most, talk to your opponent beforehand about what you're bringing, but honestly? Knights are pretty meh. If they brought enough anti-tank to deal with, say, a few Russes, they can handle a knight.

If somebody brought an Almperial knight I'd crap myself right there and then!

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:


Bring a Baneblade or Supremacy Suit and probably best to make your opponent aware beforehand

Uh oh. Now you've gone and done it- You've completed the summoning ritual...

 Grimtuff wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:


Bring a Baneblade or Supremacy Suit and probably best to make your opponent aware beforehand

Uh oh. Now you've gone and done it- You've completed the summoning ritual...

What, is Martel turning up?

I do agree with the previous comments regarding points efficiency but at the same time I think rocking up to a friendly unannounced with a warhound/reiver et al is bit off. Saying that, if they really are as bad in situ then it could make for a decent thematic friendly, just polite to give a heads up I guess.

Stux wrote:

A naked Shadowsword (one of the cheaper AM super heavies) costs 404. That's the same price as 101 Guardsmen.

101 guardsmen rapid firing will do an anerage of 5.61 wounds a turn to the Shadowsword. As the Shadowsword has 26 wounds, that's 5 turns of sustained fire, if they don't incur any losses in the meantime.

Yes but how many Guardsmen will that Shadowsword kill over the same number turns? You have an anti-tank weapon vs a horde and anti-horde weapons vs a tank. I suspect that both players would die of boredom/old-age before you got a meaningful result.