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So, with the Imperial Knights codex coming out whenever and the armigers that are out now, could we be seeing more viable pure or near pure Imperial Knights lists in the near future?

Gonna have to wait until the codex is out. My guess is you'll see some at lower tier tournaments but not the big ones.

Knights need 2 things to exist as a pure army:
1. Cheaper units. It’s hard to build a list out of 475 pt blocks
2. Some form of OBSEC, because without it single-model units will never hold objectives.

With armigers we got #1, I would assume #2 would come with the codex. There are a whole range of things to make them competitive beyond the two I listed, but those are the minimum to make a pure knight list an option at all. My gut says that GW is going to be very cautious with applying any buffs to IK since they don’t really need to sell them and it’s tough to balance large units like Knights.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Knights need 2 things to exist as a pure army:
1. Cheaper units. It’s hard to build a list out of 475 pt blocks
2. Some form of OBSEC, because without it single-model units will never hold objectives.

With armigers we got #1, I would assume #2 would come with the codex. There are a whole range of things to make them competitive beyond the two I listed, but those are the minimum to make a pure knight list an option at all. My gut says that GW is going to be very cautious with applying any buffs to IK since they don’t really need to sell them and it’s tough to balance large units like Knights.

Yeah, I was thinking the armigers were a big linchpin in all of this, but I hadn't though about objectives.

Got a citation for this new codex info?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Got a citation for this new codex info?

Just look it up on YouTube, man. It was announced or leaked when the Knight Castellan model (I think that is what it might be called) is supposed to come out with the Harlequins codex and another codex. Don’t quite recall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Apple Peel wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Got a citation for this new codex info?

Just look it up on YouTube, man. It was announced or leaked when the Knight Castellan model (I think that is what it might be called) is supposed to come out with the Harlequins codex and another codex. Don’t quite recall.

Looking back now, it seems just more like rumors, my mistake. But still though.

 Apple Peel wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Got a citation for this new codex info?

Just look it up on YouTube, man. It was announced or leaked when the Knight Castellan model (I think that is what it might be called) is supposed to come out with the Harlequins codex and another codex. Don’t quite recall.

New Knight and new Codex were both part of the Adepticon reveal, yeah? https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/22/breaking-news-major-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/

I think it will depend on the new rules for some of the newer units, specifically the armiger. Cheaper armigers with better anti horde weaponry is going to give the dex some game. Also I think if they repoint some of the knights significantly it’s going to help.

Some of it also depends on the Spring faq. Some of the ideas could really help, like limiting soup, changing the number of options in a force org, scaling weapons, repointing some of the cheaper options all have some paths that could really assist a Knight army.

Reemule wrote:
I think it will depend on the new rules for some of the newer units, specifically the armiger. Cheaper armigers with better anti horde weaponry is going to give the dex some game. Also I think if they repoint some of the knights significantly it’s going to help.

Some of it also depends on the Spring faq. Some of the ideas could really help, like limiting soup, changing the number of options in a force org, scaling weapons, repointing some of the cheaper options all have some paths that could really assist a Knight army.

I'm not sure if they'll change the base price on the Armigers. Maybe GW will make specific loadouts (warglaive etc) just a fixed value.

If we get pure hoard killing Armigers w flamers & asscans for a decent price w obsec, I could see an effective all knight army work.

Ok, seeing as this upcoming codex inntrests me, can some1 please tell me how you make an army of IK, cuz to me it makes 0 sense, as there is nothing "normal" about fielding a IK army at all.

What is hq, troops, elites and heavys in a IK army???, but more importantly, how on earth would you build a pure IK army for 500-1000p that is actualy decent to play whit and agasint?

Well, you need the LOW detachment

I'd say roughly a 1000 pt list would be one loaded Knight, and 2 armigers.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Ok, seeing as this upcoming codex inntrests me, can some1 please tell me how you make an army of IK, cuz to me it makes 0 sense, as there is nothing "normal" about fielding a IK army at all.

What is hq, troops, elites and heavys in a IK army???, but more importantly, how on earth would you build a pure IK army for 500-1000p that is actualy decent to play whit and agasint?

1)
You don't use the detachments that need all those things, you just run Super Heavy Detachments

2)
There are already somewhat cheaper options in the Armigers Warglaives. We don't know what else the codex might hold, but possibly other lower points cost units.

3)
In our pre codex world, it is not possible to make a pure Imperial Knights army that is both fun to play with and against. But who knows what the codex will do!

Stux wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Ok, seeing as this upcoming codex inntrests me, can some1 please tell me how you make an army of IK, cuz to me it makes 0 sense, as there is nothing "normal" about fielding a IK army at all.

What is hq, troops, elites and heavys in a IK army???, but more importantly, how on earth would you build a pure IK army for 500-1000p that is actualy decent to play whit and agasint?

1)
You don't use the detachments that need all those things, you just run Super Heavy Detachments

2)
There are already somewhat cheaper options in the Armigers Warglaives. We don't know what else the codex might hold, but possibly other lower points cost units.

3)
In our pre codex world, it is not possible to make a pure Imperial Knights army that is both fun to play with and against. But who knows what the codex will do!

hmm, so if the super heavy is the way to play index mono IK, then codex must either bring lots of smaller cheaper knights that have a LoW role or it adds humies.
i think this might be the first 8th edition codex that realy inntrests me.

if they dont add humies, i wonder how on earth they will make mono codex games under 1000p playable and in general aspect, enjoable for both players..

 Apple Peel wrote:
So, with the Imperial Knights codex coming out whenever and the armigers that are out now, could we be seeing more viable pure or near pure Imperial Knights lists in the near future?

Personally I see them as going to be similar as the Custodes codex. They could work on their own but will be far more efficient as an Imperial soup list.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Got a citation for this new codex info?

As others mentioned, confirmed on Warhammer Community IK codex in the next batch of 3 to be released

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/22/breaking-news-major-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
[
if they dont add humies, i wonder how on earth they will make mono codex games under 1000p playable and in general aspect, enjoable for both players..

Mono codexes are thing of past. You get humans from ad mech or ig codex

My hope is that like the Genestealer codex, the Knight codex can borrow from the AM range to make house hold militia. I wanna make my laser pike men-at-arms

I think so much for the Imperial Knight Army depends on the Faq and what changes we see from it.

From the FAQ we need the basic issue of weapons scaling to deal with the current numbers in the game has to be fixed. If that happens it will change the meta where Hordes being the toughest thing on the field to deal with in any kind of points effective matter will return a better balance to vehicles/infantry/heros/Hordes.

1. Assuming that happens, you give knights the ability to really return to the game as they excel in single target elimination with the plethora of heavy hitting weapons.
2. And they need some kind of Stratagem/unit rules/faction rule/warlord ability to hold and control points with the small model count they have. When it is realistic to have a 4 model army there needs to be some thought on how they deal with getting and holding points.

Knights need:

Obsec. Total Obsec. If they're planted down, they own that objective.

Armigers need an anti-horde option. Either mini-gatling cannons or dual flamers.

A stratagem that makes titanic feet wounds spill over, or something. Some ability to take out tons of small nothings.

To be made cheaper.

I firmly believe their shield should work in melee, as well. Right now Slamguinius or the like can basically one shot a Knight in melee, for only 129pts.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Knights need:

Obsec. Total Obsec. If they're planted down, they own that objective.

Armigers need an anti-horde option. Either mini-gatling cannons or dual flamers.

A stratagem that makes titanic feet wounds spill over, or something. Some ability to take out tons of small nothings.

To be made cheaper.

I firmly believe their shield should work in melee, as well. Right now Slamguinius or the like can basically one shot a Knight in melee, for only 129pts.

Someone else suggested that knights get objective secured equal to the amount the wounds the knight standing on it still has, which would be the optimal solution I think. I've said earlier that armigers should get a flail that basically works like titanic feet, so its 4 attacks are multiplied by 3 or something like that. And I hope that armigers get the ability to fall back out of combat but can still shoot&charge that turn, but without the walking over infantry rule.

Racerguy180 wrote:

If we get pure hoard killing Armigers w flamers & asscans for a decent price w obsec, I could see an effective all knight army work.

No need for armigers. Just use contemptor dreads with kheres AC. They are basically mini anti infantry armigers (or the armiger is a blown up dreadnought).

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Knights need:

Obsec. Total Obsec. If they're planted down, they own that objective.

Armigers need an anti-horde option. Either mini-gatling cannons or dual flamers.

Why? The Knights themselves can pack anti-horde options with the Avenger Gatling Cannon and the Ironstorm Missile Pod. All we need is the ability to have double AGCs.

Sorry, I just don't see the necessity for the Armigers to pack anti-horde stuff when the Knights themselves can do it.

A stratagem that makes titanic feet wounds spill over, or something. Some ability to take out tons of small nothings.

This is something I've been mulling over for awhile with regards to battle cannons and things like that. I've been thinking about trying out something where for each casualty inflicted with that weapon, models surrounding them have to make a save or suffer a Wound as well from just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

To be made cheaper.

I firmly believe their shield should work in melee, as well. Right now Slamguinius or the like can basically one shot a Knight in melee, for only 129pts.

I don't necessarily think their shield should work in melee, but they definitely should get some kind of melee protection.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Sorry, I just don't see the necessity for the Armigers to pack anti-horde stuff when the Knights themselves can do it.

I think that if the status quo doesn't change, my knights will be my anti horde options, with the armigers maintaining a few anti vehicle options for someone who gets sparky.

But I'd rather the game change.I think its better to fix some of the issues on a game level.

I'd rather have the option to bring Armigers as cheap anti-horde while the Knights provide anti-tank, Kan. More options are always better.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Knights need:

Obsec. Total Obsec. If they're planted down, they own that objective.

Armigers need an anti-horde option. Either mini-gatling cannons or dual flamers.

Why? The Knights themselves can pack anti-horde options with the Avenger Gatling Cannon and the Ironstorm Missile Pod. All we need is the ability to have double AGCs.

Sorry, I just don't see the necessity for the Armigers to pack anti-horde stuff when the Knights themselves can do it.

Because Avenger Gatlings are wasted, at 2d, against things like guardsmen and cultists. If the armigers have a 1d variant, they're better suited for the task so big boys can tackle larger threats.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Knights need:

Obsec. Total Obsec. If they're planted down, they own that objective.

Armigers need an anti-horde option. Either mini-gatling cannons or dual flamers.

Why? The Knights themselves can pack anti-horde options with the Avenger Gatling Cannon and the Ironstorm Missile Pod. All we need is the ability to have double AGCs.

Sorry, I just don't see the necessity for the Armigers to pack anti-horde stuff when the Knights themselves can do it.

Because Avenger Gatlings are wasted, at 2d, against things like guardsmen and cultists. If the armigers have a 1d variant, they're better suited for the task so big boys can tackle larger threats.

I mean, 2D might make them overkill against Guardsmen and Cultists--but it makes them able to handle those and Primaris or other multi-wound infantry--things that might not necessarily be "horded" against them. And hell, there's things like Death Guard and their special rules to consider as well.

1) All knights being characters, and getting a 6" heroic intervention would be nice.

2) Objective secure based on wounds.

3) Fallback and assault/shoot on armiger.

4) A stratagem that lets you shoot at deepstriking units.

5) A stratagem that buffs your overwatch.

Some nice mechanics?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Knights need:

Obsec. Total Obsec. If they're planted down, they own that objective.

Armigers need an anti-horde option. Either mini-gatling cannons or dual flamers.

Why? The Knights themselves can pack anti-horde options with the Avenger Gatling Cannon and the Ironstorm Missile Pod. All we need is the ability to have double AGCs.

Sorry, I just don't see the necessity for the Armigers to pack anti-horde stuff when the Knights themselves can do it.

Because Avenger Gatlings are wasted, at 2d, against things like guardsmen and cultists. If the armigers have a 1d variant, they're better suited for the task so big boys can tackle larger threats.

I mean, 2D might make them overkill against Guardsmen and Cultists--but it makes them able to handle those and Primaris or other multi-wound infantry--things that might not necessarily be "horded" against them. And hell, there's things like Death Guard and their special rules to consider as well.

I fear we play very different types of 40k, my friend, and that's totally fine.

I don't ever see units like that, so our individual perspective on necessary targets varies.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

I mean, 2D might make them overkill against Guardsmen and Cultists--but it makes them able to handle those and Primaris or other multi-wound infantry--things that might not necessarily be "horded" against them. And hell, there's things like Death Guard and their special rules to consider as well.

I fear we play very different types of 40k, my friend, and that's totally fine.

I don't ever see units like that, so our individual perspective on necessary targets varies.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

I mean, 2D might make them overkill against Guardsmen and Cultists--but it makes them able to handle those and Primaris or other multi-wound infantry--things that might not necessarily be "horded" against them. And hell, there's things like Death Guard and their special rules to consider as well.

I fear we play very different types of 40k, my friend, and that's totally fine.

I don't ever see units like that, so our individual perspective on necessary targets varies.

Here, I think, is where our perspective might vary.

It seems like you don't want to 'waste' your shots from the Avengers. That sound about right?

I don't consider it a waste if I've overkilled a screening unit. It would have to be killed one way or the other and if it opens up something else, well then I'll be ready to nail it to the wall.

Not as much "waste", as it is I don't see the Avenger as a true option against "Hordes". It is an option for taking out TEQ Units and light vehicles. A smaller, weaker version of the weapon would be a support item, intended for that purpose, on a smaller knight meant to support the larger variants.

That's how I think of it.

And that I think is where we're differing a bit more...

I don't consider the Armigers to be "support" in the way that you might be (them taking on the enemies the Knights can't/won't). I consider them like squires or hunting guides--their gig is to 'beat the bush' and flush out the stuff for the Lord to take down and then get super fancy triumphant photos with.