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Weird question maybe, I know the suits are pretty iconic and ive seen them perform well. I really don't like the look of the models, but I dig all the other anime mecha, and tanks. How much are you handicapping yourself with tau without xv8 suits?

Short answer: they're not. XV8 suits are historically bad right now, so I wouldn't feel bad at all about leaving them behind if I were you.

They're definitely specialist kit at the moment - rather like Terminators, only to be used in certain situations.

With how expensive they are, the only thing I can really think of doing with them is kitting them out as cheaply as you can with shield generators, and then throwing getting them in with enemy units that will have trouble killing them in order to tie stuff up.

If you pay for firepower on them, you'll always end up losing out.

One weird situational thing they do get you right now is Manta Strike off the new Stealthsuit homing beacons, so you can land fusion suits in bonus-damage range of something.

It doesn't work incredibly well in the face of space-filling chaff and XV-9s actually do that job better, though (one 131pt XV-9 does the job of two 84pt XV-81 (168pts all together), the shorter range is mitigated by the homing beacons, and he's legal as a squad of one so you don't have to blow even more points on another suicide body).

They are not. Actually, they are one of the bottom-of-the-barrel units of the Codex

Unless you play against melee hordes in which case 3x Flamer Crisis are cheap and good, the only decent build is 3x Cyclic Ion Blaster, though they already end up very expensive for what you get. Plasma is overpriced and only efficient if you get within 12", Fire Warriors overperform Burst Cannon Crisis so much it is not even funny anymore. All the other weapons are overpriced or gimicky to the point of being fun-list only choices.

Outside of Flamer builds, Crisis are only really "good" as part of the Farsight Enclaves with the drop zone clear strategem for a Bs 3+ turn 1 deepstrike. Otherwise there is nothing they can do that Commanders, Vespids, Stealthsuits, Hammerheads, Broadsides and massed Fire Warriors do not do better.

If you want to run a team of Crisis then all Flamer suits are quite good and adequately priced if you run them as Vior'la, otherwise you are losing nothing by leaving them out, especially considering how strong above named units as well as Riptides (though I wouldn't take more than one because of rapidly diminishing returns without strategem buffs) as well as a plenthora of other good units.

If you are starting or expanding Tau then the Start Collecting! Box is a must buy, and you are best off using the three Crisis (or any you already own) as XV8 Commanders, particularly the one you can equip with an Iridium armour.

I love(d) crisis suits. With that out of the way, steer clear until the 'Jet Pack' keyword does something. The way they are now, I just want to cry. . .

They are a sub-optimal choice no matter how you use them. As others have pointed out the cheaper weapon options are the only ones to consider and since the only thing the unit is even remotely good at is taking hits - a sheild generator is a good investment on them.

I think plasma is going to perform the best.
3 man team 8 plasma and a single sheild gen. That build is 222 points. If shooting at a MEQ unit with 5 marker lights - that is really going to hurt and you might even be durable enough to shoot them again. The issue is we are talking about an additional 80 points of marker light support required to get that damage - you are dang close to having 3 commanders instead of crisis suits.

At their current cost they should have BS3+ - there is no doubt about it. Even then though - they wouldn't be a top tier option still (just more playable).

So it's perfectly doable to make a tau army with just tanks, broadsides, riptide, and smattering of infantry?

Danny slag wrote:
So it's perfectly doable to make a tau army with just tanks, broadsides, riptide, and smattering of infantry?

All their tanks are trash. Missile Broadsides are great because they put out a LOT of dakka, and hard hitting dakka with the AP-1 upgrade. Riptides are good but a shadow of their former selves.

Honestly I think BS are one of the worst units in the codex.

 Primark G wrote:
Honestly I think BS are one of the worst units in the codex.

Railgun ones for sure, but SMS+Missile Pod ones are fantastic IMHO.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Honestly I think BS are one of the worst units in the codex.

Railgun ones for sure, but SMS+Missile Pod ones are fantastic IMHO.

Sa'cea heavy rail rifle BS are pretty sexy

 Primark G wrote:
Honestly I think BS are one of the worst units in the codex.

Broadsides? They really aren't. The only units significantly better than them against vehicles are fusion Commanders and ion rifle Pathfinders and those each have their own obvious limitations.

Broadsides are solid, and I wouldn't say the vehicles are trash at all. I'm still waiting on CA to make that call, since the FW twin-HBC Hammerhead could quickly become one of the best units in the game if it gets upgraded to be in line with the codex HBC. As they are, ionheads are a reasonable choice. Broadisdes deal more damage per point and can be easier to protect, though.

To the OP's question, it is absolutely fine to go without Crisis Suits. They're just plain bad right now, so you're never going to see them outside of a Farsight Enclaves crisis bomb or other gadget list. It's a shame, really. Fortunately, most everything else in our codex is pretty usable, except for Skyrays. They're still awful.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Danny slag wrote:
So it's perfectly doable to make a tau army with just tanks, broadsides, riptide, and smattering of infantry?

All their tanks are trash. Missile Broadsides are great because they put out a LOT of dakka, and hard hitting dakka with the AP-1 upgrade. Riptides are good but a shadow of their former selves.

Ion cannon hammerheads + longstrike isn't the worst. Worth a try?

I might divide opinion here but if Battlesuits were point costed appropriately or buffed to reflect their current cost, I would consider them pretty damn important for one reason only, They are your biggest jack of all trades unit. they carry the highest volume of special weapons in the army and can be the most diverse unit in the game. Even though Ghostkeels and Riptides can mount some of the weapons they use, That isn't the reason you run them, you run them for their souped up versions, the regular versions are just nice additions for a few extra shots. The Codex really didn't do them justice as, despite what I have been told by someone at my FLGS, stratagems are not there to make a unit playable, they are there as strategic alternatives that have to be considered carefully.

This whole thread brings up the question in my mind again, why are Crisis Suits still included in the Start Collecting T'au box? Shouldn't they have redone that box (like they did many others) with the release of the new codex?

SG

Uhhh - I think some of you are confused about tau units.

Hammerheads are literally the best unit in the codex. That isn't a commander.
Broadsides with both builds are very potent in the correct mix of units. For example
HRR with velocity tracker and 5 marker lights is hitting on 2's (vs a fly keyword unit) rerolling 1's ignoring cover with ap -4. With +1 to wound strategem is wounding on 2's with 5-6 dealing d 3 additional wounds - then doing d6 damage.

Also - shield drones make broadsides REALLY hard to kill.


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zerosignal wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Danny slag wrote:
So it's perfectly doable to make a tau army with just tanks, broadsides, riptide, and smattering of infantry?

All their tanks are trash. Missile Broadsides are great because they put out a LOT of dakka, and hard hitting dakka with the AP-1 upgrade. Riptides are good but a shadow of their former selves.

Ion cannon hammerheads + longstrike isn't the worst. Worth a try?

Uhhh - they are amazing - ION cannons are amazing.

Is it viable to play and old «fishes of fury» list ? Lots of infantry in devilfishes, some hammerheads, and no suits ?

 godardc wrote:
Is it viable to play and old «fishes of fury» list ? Lots of infantry in devilfishes, some hammerheads, and no suits ?

Yeah - it would be pretty good I think too. The only issue is devil-fish are kind of expensive for what they do. Mass firewarriros and mass hammerheads is pretty good though.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Is it viable to play and old «fishes of fury» list ? Lots of infantry in devilfishes, some hammerheads, and no suits ?

Yeah - it would be pretty good I think too. The only issue is devil-fish are kind of expensive for what they do. Mass firewarriros and mass hammerheads is pretty good though.

Because Tau have a beautiful aestethics, but I hate the suits ! So if I collected them, I wouldn't take any. Glad to here it is viable.

I don't think XV8's are as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Most of the weapon options are crap but a 3 man squad fully decked out with cyclic ion blasters is down right deadly. They have more offensive output per point than stealth suits or ghostkeels that everyone seems to love. They are expensive which means you can't just spam them to make an army but it's really powerful to bring in a unit that can one shot a wide variety of things in the game without having to get really close. If you just plop them down turn one in front of your enemy's army they'll get killed pretty quickly but i've had success holding off a turn or two and using them on flanks where they can kill a target one at a time and remain out of range of most of your opponents weapons or assaults. They definitely require a lot more thought and positioning to play due to their cost and relative fragility but if used properly they can be a devastating unit.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Uhhh - I think some of you are confused about tau units.

Hammerheads are literally the best unit in the codex. That isn't a commander.

What? No, they're not. HBC Riptide is.
Railgun Hammerheads are one of the least cost-effective unit in the Tau parking lot. Vior'la quad fusion Coldstars are much better anti-tank than Hammerheads

ComradeRed1308 wrote:
I don't think XV8's are as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Most of the weapon options are crap but a 3 man squad fully decked out with cyclic ion blasters is down right deadly. They have more offensive output per point than stealth suits or ghostkeels that everyone seems to love. They are expensive which means you can't just spam them to make an army but it's really powerful to bring in a unit that can one shot a wide variety of things in the game without having to get really close. If you just plop them down turn one in front of your enemy's army they'll get killed pretty quickly but i've had success holding off a turn or two and using them on flanks where they can kill a target one at a time and remain out of range of most of your opponents weapons or assaults. They definitely require a lot more thought and positioning to play due to their cost and relative fragility but if used properly they can be a devastating unit.

It would be very interesting to try this out. Yes, they are expensive (258 points per 3 Crisis Suits with 2 x Cyclic Ion Blasters), but 18", Assault 3, Strength 7, AP -1, Damage 1 that could get pretty nasty. They don't have a lot of wounds, but with a 3+/4++, they could be pretty hard to wound as well. Very interesting thought. With the listed configuration, you could take an inexpensive HQ and 10 Crisis Suits in a 1000 point list.

They don't seem quite so bad anymore.

SG

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Uhhh - I think some of you are confused about tau units.

Hammerheads are literally the best unit in the codex. That isn't a commander.

What? No, they're not. HBC Riptide is.
Railgun Hammerheads are one of the least cost-effective unit in the Tau parking lot. Vior'la quad fusion Coldstars are much better anti-tank than Hammerheads

Yeah obviously I'm talking about ion cannon hammer heads. Just do the math on them. They do amazing damage vs all kinds of targets. Commanders are the best ^ I conceded that in my post. Also I disagree about the HBC riptide - if it were str 7 it would be competitive against the IA but at str 6 is just isn't versatile enough to matter. IA is 6 shots with a las cannon basically - It does the job you want it to do well - kills heavy infantry at approximately the same rate to. Why take a riptide to kill infantry? It doesn't make sense.

 ServiceGames wrote:
This whole thread brings up the question in my mind again, why are Crisis Suits still included in the Start Collecting T'au box? Shouldn't they have redone that box (like they did many others) with the release of the new codex?

SG

Probably because even being crummy units, they're $75 outside of the Start Collecting and if they take them away from that...they'll be shelfsitters for ages to come.

Realistically though, they should have rejigged the damn box and swapped out the stupid Ethereal on Hoverround for a Fireblade or a Commander. He was shoved into three different discount boxes last year and really just...ugh. So awful.

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Uhhh - I think some of you are confused about tau units.

Hammerheads are literally the best unit in the codex. That isn't a commander.

What? No, they're not. HBC Riptide is.
Railgun Hammerheads are one of the least cost-effective unit in the Tau parking lot. Vior'la quad fusion Coldstars are much better anti-tank than Hammerheads

That's why the last three posters were specifically talking about ION Hammerheads, mate.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Broadsides are solid, and I wouldn't say the vehicles are trash at all. I'm still waiting on CA to make that call, since the FW twin-HBC Hammerhead could quickly become one of the best units in the game if it gets upgraded to be in line with the codex HBC. As they are, ionheads are a reasonable choice. Broadisdes deal more damage per point and can be easier to protect, though.

To the OP's question, it is absolutely fine to go without Crisis Suits. They're just plain bad right now, so you're never going to see them outside of a Farsight Enclaves crisis bomb or other gadget list. It's a shame, really. Fortunately, most everything else in our codex is pretty usable, except for Skyrays. They're still awful.

Sky ray isn't bad - It's damage is front loaded - then it becomes a useless target to shoot at for your opponent - which means you will probably have 5 marker lights on a target all game even if they kill your drones and pathfinders.

ComradeRed1308 wrote:
I don't think XV8's are as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Most of the weapon options are crap but a 3 man squad fully decked out with cyclic ion blasters is down right deadly. They have more offensive output per point than stealth suits or ghostkeels that everyone seems to love. They are expensive which means you can't just spam them to make an army but it's really powerful to bring in a unit that can one shot a wide variety of things in the game without having to get really close. If you just plop them down turn one in front of your enemy's army they'll get killed pretty quickly but i've had success holding off a turn or two and using them on flanks where they can kill a target one at a time and remain out of range of most of your opponents weapons or assaults. They definitely require a lot more thought and positioning to play due to their cost and relative fragility but if used properly they can be a devastating unit.

The real problem with this is it's viable outside of tournament or time limited games but if your only getting 3 or 4 turns not deploying untill t2 or later makes it hard to gain their points back