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Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes






How do people feel about the Word Bearers?

I've heard mention of Alpha Legion, but that's about the only undivided legion I've heard people talk about. Anything exciting going on with the Word Bearers? I feel like they're kind of mediocre with chaos summoning being useless and with morale not really being a useful tool offensively.

Am I missing anything or are Word Bearers pretty much just a paint scheme?

Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne! 
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





You're not missing anything.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





The thing is that Alpha Legion are just so darn good that everything else looks poor by comparison. Even Khorne Berzerkers tend to more often be Alphas than World Eaters in competitive lists.

It's a similar situation for loyalist marines all looking a bit bobbins next to Raven Guard.

You basically have to ask yourself if you're building a list to win games, or to fulfill your fantasy army. You may have to trade off some of the former to get more of the latter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/26 20:04:59


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Stux wrote:
The thing is that Alpha Legion are just so darn good that everything else looks poor by comparison. Even Khorne Berzerkers tend to more often be Alphas than World Eaters in competitive lists.

It's a similar situation for loyalist marines all looking a bit bobbins next to Raven Guard.

You basically have to ask yourself if you're building a list to win games, or to fulfill your fantasy army. You may have to trade off some of the former to get more of the latter.


Then again fantasy army is rarely tied up with specifc rules for faction traits. Especially if that fantasy army has been fantasy before snowflake rules appeared...

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes






Stux wrote:
The thing is that Alpha Legion are just so darn good that everything else looks poor by comparison. Even Khorne Berzerkers tend to more often be Alphas than World Eaters in competitive lists.

It's a similar situation for loyalist marines all looking a bit bobbins next to Raven Guard.

You basically have to ask yourself if you're building a list to win games, or to fulfill your fantasy army. You may have to trade off some of the former to get more of the latter.


There's literally nothing stopping me from painting my guys like Word Bearers, calling them Word Bearers, and then using the Alpha Legion rules. I play for fun, and something that I think would be really fun would be playing a Word Bearers army that summoned lots of demons. The thing is, summoning is gak and the Word Bearers don't bring anything to the table that any of the other legions can't already do, so what really is the point? Struggling uphill is not fun just like restricting yourself to only competitive units and playstyles is not fun. I always work for the middle ground of fun, effective, and fluffy.

I've been fine with my World Eaters Legion, +1A on the charge is pretty sweet now that no one else gets it. Not to mention I can take my 3 units of Berserkers and be done with it. An Alpha Legion list would need troops.

My vision, however, was simply an undivided chaos legion with a very large demon detachment that did not discriminate between the Chaos Gods. The Legion traits definitely don't seem balanced, though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/26 20:19:37


Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





LD9 rerolling hits (fight), wounds (fight), and morale ccw cultists. They can all be squads of 10, because they'll get the best bonuses from the auras anyway.

Use the remaining 650 or so points to summon daemons matching the DP mark (your choice) who will give reroll 1s to hit.

18 CP

Dark Apostle, Maul
Dark Apostle, Maul

10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Exalted Champ
Exalted Champ

10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Daemon Prince, Tzeentch
Daemon Prince, Tzeentch

10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/26 20:18:12


 
   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes






 Daedalus81 wrote:
LD9 rerolling hits (fight), wounds (fight), and morale ccw cultists. They can all be squads of 10, because they'll get the best bonuses from the auras anyway.

Use the remaining 650 or so points to summon daemons matching the DP mark (your choice) who will give reroll 1s to hit.

18 CP

Dark Apostle, Maul
Dark Apostle, Maul

10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Exalted Champ
Exalted Champ

10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Daemon Prince, Tzeentch
Daemon Prince, Tzeentch

10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists


Why?

My Word Bearer's list would be filled with Marines, not cultists.

Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne! 
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator




The Void

Yeah, they are pretty much worthless. They are geared to summoning, which is weak, and then their trait itself is very weak. Remember that all loyalist SM get reroll morale for free, and then a trait on top of that. And mathematically, re-rolling morale isn't great. Their warlord trait and relic are solid though.

Summoning is a cool idea, but it's just not worth it. In has many pros and few cons over just running a daemon detachment:

Pros:
- You can pick what you summon on the spot, so can tailor it for the opponent and situation

Cons:
- Summoned units come in with deep strike restrictions
- You have less units on the board starting off, so you are vulnerable to alpha strikes
- Your amount of summoning is limited by your amount of characters
- You are limited by the positioning of the summoning character, whereas normal DSing isn't
- Summoning can fail
- Summoning can hurt you
- You'll probably have to spend CP to successfully summon, and only WB, DG, and 1ksons have strats for this
- Summoned units are restricted by the mark of the summoner
- Summoning daemons introduces soup problems (lack of aura compatibility) over just using more CSM units.

So it's a raw deal. I think if they fixed summoning and gave WB a slightly better trait, then we could see them be viable.

Summoning could be fixed by making it so summoned daemons can benefit from heretic astartes aura buffs. Allow summoning to be done before or after character movement. This would address problems with synergy and tactical flexibility. Making it so when you summon you can do multiple units up to a certain power level would also help, as then you could bring in a squad and a character.

The Word Bearers summoning strat should be available to all chaos and WB should get something else. To solve the problem of foot print, it would be cool if you could sacrifice cultists or something to increase your summoning roll, and add their points to your reserve points. This way you are starting with units on the board, and then swapping some of them for daemons.

Then to fix Word Bearers themselves, they need a trait overhaul (all SM and CSM do.) I think it'd be fitting if their warlord trait got turned into their regular trait. So re-roll morale, and all auras get +3" range. I'd also add that all characters get the dark apostles's leadership aura. Then make their Warlord trait +1d6 to summoning for that character or something. Then make their strat something to further boost summoning. Perhaps 1 CP to auto pass summoning something below a certain power level, or 1CP to let a character summon a second time.

If they got an overhaul like this, i'd play them!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/26 23:08:29


Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 Kharneth wrote:
Stux wrote:
The thing is that Alpha Legion are just so darn good that everything else looks poor by comparison. Even Khorne Berzerkers tend to more often be Alphas than World Eaters in competitive lists.

It's a similar situation for loyalist marines all looking a bit bobbins next to Raven Guard.

You basically have to ask yourself if you're building a list to win games, or to fulfill your fantasy army. You may have to trade off some of the former to get more of the latter.


There's literally nothing stopping me from painting my guys like Word Bearers, calling them Word Bearers, and then using the Alpha Legion rules. I play for fun, and something that I think would be really fun would be playing a Word Bearers army that summoned lots of demons. The thing is, summoning is gak and the Word Bearers don't bring anything to the table that any of the other legions can't already do, so what really is the point? Struggling uphill is not fun just like restricting yourself to only competitive units and playstyles is not fun. I always work for the middle ground of fun, effective, and fluffy.

I've been fine with my World Eaters Legion, +1A on the charge is pretty sweet now that no one else gets it. Not to mention I can take my 3 units of Berserkers and be done with it. An Alpha Legion list would need troops.

My vision, however, was simply an undivided chaos legion with a very large demon detachment that did not discriminate between the Chaos Gods. The Legion traits definitely don't seem balanced, though.


Totally agree with your ethos here! I too always strive for the middle ground. I'm not bothered about having tournament viable lists, but I want to win a reasonable number of games amongst friends still. And I definitely want to bring the units I like even if they aren't the best choice. I love Inceptors for instance, so often bring a lot of them.

You're right summoning is terrible, but why not bring a patrol detachment of daemons, and use their stratagem to teleport them in instead? Could take say a Bloodthirster and a full strength unit of bloodletters for example.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

Stux wrote:
The thing is that Alpha Legion are just so darn good that everything else looks poor by comparison. Even Khorne Berzerkers tend to more often be Alphas than World Eaters in competitive lists.
Alpha legion wearing (any other space marine's) heraldry is about as fluffy as cheese can get.



Don't forget at the end of every game to say, "you thought I was playing Word Bearers**? Well it was Alpha Legion the whole time!* *optional moustache twirl*

** optionally switch to ultramarines, or any other force

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/26 20:40:21


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Kharneth wrote:
Spoiler:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
LD9 rerolling hits (fight), wounds (fight), and morale ccw cultists. They can all be squads of 10, because they'll get the best bonuses from the auras anyway.

Use the remaining 650 or so points to summon daemons matching the DP mark (your choice) who will give reroll 1s to hit.

18 CP

Dark Apostle, Maul
Dark Apostle, Maul

10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Exalted Champ
Exalted Champ

10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Daemon Prince, Tzeentch
Daemon Prince, Tzeentch

10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists


Why?

My Word Bearer's list would be filled with Marines, not cultists.


You can easily sub in marines, but i'd still recommend bringing some cultists. For every block of 60 cultists you can take ~15 marines plus a special/heavy. They'll still benefit from the auras like the cultists.

Put CS/BP on them and march up field. You'll neutralize most of their anti-tank by way of having nothing for them to shoot. Each individual CSM unit can kill 2 or 3 MEQ and 5 or 6 GEQ in combat. Cultists are 5 to 6 and 15 to 16 respectively. And then come the Daemon Princes. And a Greater Daemon if you get good rolls.

You have tons of CP so making some stuff Khorne and taking some bigger squads for Fight Twice is simple. You can use VotLW every single phase.

This comes to roughly the same points:
Spoiler:


Dark Apostle, Maul
Dark Apostle, Maul

5 CSM, PG
5 CSM, PG
5 CSM, PG

Exalted Champ
Exalted Champ

5 CSM, PG
5 CSM, PG
5 CSM, PG

Daemon Prince, Tzeentch
Daemon Prince, Tzeentch

20 Cultists
20 Cultists
5 CSM, PG
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Word Bearers are simultaneously my favorite legion, and the worst legion. Their legion trait is just plain sad, and although their stratagem is decent the Legion overall just doesn't compare with the current powerhouses like Alpha Legion, Black Legion, etc.
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

Their rules are so underwhelming they might as well not be an option. I'll run mine as other legions/renegades until they get new rules/Lorgar.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





If you're gonna go with lots of cultists just mob them up so you can at least Tide of Traitors one of them. Also, Endless Cacophony and VOTLW goes a long way to buff 40 Cultists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/26 21:05:38


 
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






The main gimmick to me for the Word Bearers is their superior Summoning capability. Now that Summoning somehow got even worse with the FAQ, it's a pretty hard pass.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Nightlord1987 wrote:
If you're gonna go with lots of cultists just mob them up so you can at least Tide of Traitors one of them. Also, Endless Cacophony and VOTLW goes a long way to buff 40 Cultists.


Tide is only once per game now, so not as relevant and unless you're rocking Abaddon bringing 40 is not the best idea.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




They have an excellent Warlord Trait. Their Strategem is...okay I guess. Their relic is pretty cool due to lots of Imperial armies running around.

It's just that their Legion Trait is so bad that you want to avoid it at all costs.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
 
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