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I think you'd have to be very naive to think that Alpharius won't come back. Alpharius coming back from the dead is so quintessential, they have to do it. As if he'd be a live and just mosey on out of the eye of terror. Of course he's come back under the pretext of a faked death. Of course he'll fake his death he's Alpharius.

Alpharius has like 3 death stories, and none add up fully. It's entirely his style to come back. After both of those times his legion saw no real drop in effectiveness and they still haven't really. So it's entirely possible for him to come back in my opinion. Or perhaps Omegon to come back. Both would certainly be interesting, but one seems a bit more likely.

It is long overdue for GW to recognize that Alpharius walks the mortal plane yet.

Unless Alpharius has been baned. You don't come back from baning.

In the fluff? Maybe
On the table top? Doubtful. Angron and Fulgrim still have to get models to complete the Daemon Primarch Tetrad before any other Traitor Primarchs are considered

 Galef wrote:
In the fluff? Maybe
On the table top? Doubtful. Angron and Fulgrim still have to get models to complete the Daemon Primarch Tetrad before any other Traitor Primarchs are considered

I think he'd of course be after those 2. But over a period of time spanning years, I think he's a fairly simple one to bring back. The big question is: Is there enough interest in the Alpha Legion to justify them making him? Because i'm sure 1,000 people could say yes. But if they look at their mysterious analytics and see barely any Alpha Legion armies represented then I don;t think they will bring him back until way down the line. Similar story for other Primarchs whose Legions/ Chapters aren't as heavily used.

I believe he already has.



Not just a 'Alpharius', is everywhere meme. I seriously believe that Alpharius replaced him. There is a lot of stuff that is best and most easily explained by Guilliman being Alpharius, Ockham's Razor and all that.

He's only coming back as a trophy skull on plastic Dorn's belt...

My headcanon has always been that Alpharius/Omegon never really went away. Because they are not just one soul in two bodies, they're one soul split across their entire legion. When an AL marine says "I am Alpharius", it is not always misdirection or metaphor; sometimes it is literally true. The primarch of the Alpha Legion can possess (similarly to daemonic possession) anyone who bears his geneseed at will. Killing any individual body is largely irrelevant.

Each primarch inherited something unique from the Emperor. Guilliman got his strategic and administrative genius, Magnus got his phenomenal psychic might, Curze got his ability to see the future, etc. And Alpharius got his trait of being a gestalt soul.

 Otto Weston wrote:
I believe he already has.

Spoiler:

Not just a 'Alpharius', is everywhere meme. I seriously believe that Alpharius replaced him. There is a lot of stuff that is best and most easily explained by Guilliman being Alpharius, Ockham's Razor and all that.

That would actually be a great twist that would deal with a lot of my issues with Girlyman coming back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Duskweaver wrote:
My headcanon has always been that Alpharius/Omegon never really went away. Because they are not just one soul in two bodies, they're one soul split across their entire legion. When an AL marine says "I am Alpharius", it is not always misdirection or metaphor; sometimes it is literally true. The primarch of the Alpha Legion can possess (similarly to daemonic possession) anyone who bears his geneseed at will. Killing any individual body is largely irrelevant.

Each primarch inherited something unique from the Emperor. Guilliman got his strategic and administrative genius, Magnus got his phenomenal psychic might, Curze got his ability to see the future, etc. And Alpharius got his trait of being a gestalt soul.

But they all got pretty impressive intelligence, quite a few use psychic powers and I'm pretty sure Sanguinius saw the future at some point.

 Otto Weston wrote:
I believe he already has.

Spoiler:

Not just a 'Alpharius', is everywhere meme. I seriously believe that Alpharius replaced him. There is a lot of stuff that is best and most easily explained by Guilliman being Alpharius, Ockham's Razor and all that.

except via Occam's razor that's a poor theory. Occam's razor is that in any given situation the one that requires developing the least new things is proably the correct one. a Gulliam is Alpharius theory would require a considerable amount of new items etc. not the least of which is that a primarch would manage to pose as his brother from the people who knew him best for a good century or so.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
I believe he already has.

Spoiler:

Not just a 'Alpharius', is everywhere meme. I seriously believe that Alpharius replaced him. There is a lot of stuff that is best and most easily explained by Guilliman being Alpharius, Ockham's Razor and all that.

except via Occam's razor that's a poor theory. Occam's razor is that in any given situation the one that requires developing the least new things is proably the correct one. a Gulliam is Alpharius theory would require a considerable amount of new items etc. not the least of which is that a primarch would manage to pose as his brother from the people who knew him best for a good century or so.

By Alpharius who is one of the best people in the universe at that. Besides who'd suspect anything? He's either just finished the Heresy which would change anyone or it's 40k where nobody knows him.

How many people that actualy met guilliman 10,000 yrs ago are there and how well wojuld they remember his every personality trait or tick

darthryan wrote:
How many people that actualy met guilliman 10,000 yrs ago are there and how well wojuld they remember his every personality trait or tick

Cawl, Magnus, and Cypher, all of whom feature heavily in the book in which he returned, just to name a few. Also, you know, the Emperor, who Roboute has a conversation with in the novel Dark Imperium.

 Platuan4th wrote:

darthryan wrote:
How many people that actualy met guilliman 10,000 yrs ago are there and how well wojuld they remember his every personality trait or tick

Cawl, Magnus, and Cypher, all of whom feature heavily in the book in which he returned, just to name a few. Also, you know, the Emperor, who Roboute has a conversation with in the novel Dark Imperium.

Cawl has to remember his ticks for 10'000 years so he's pretty unreliable, Cypher dips in and out of the Warp and may not even be the original Cypher assuming that he knew Guilliman that well anyway and Magnus is full on Chaos so he could easily be in on any plans. Who said he talks with the Emperor? He's dead.

Plus every one of those people is either a Traitor or does a lot of things against the Imperium. Not counting Big E who's dead.

 Platuan4th wrote:

darthryan wrote:
How many people that actualy met guilliman 10,000 yrs ago are there and how well wojuld they remember his every personality trait or tick

Cawl, Magnus, and Cypher, all of whom feature heavily in the book in which he returned, just to name a few. Also, you know, the Emperor, who Roboute has a conversation with in the novel Dark Imperium.

I suspect that if Guilliman was actually Alpharius in disguise then he'd have to have been either a very convincing impostor to fool the Emperor, or to have convinced the Emperor he was actually a good guy all along. Neither of which seem probable. While I want Alpharius to return, I'm pretty doubtful that he has already as Guilliman.

pm713 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

darthryan wrote:
How many people that actualy met guilliman 10,000 yrs ago are there and how well wojuld they remember his every personality trait or tick

Cawl, Magnus, and Cypher, all of whom feature heavily in the book in which he returned, just to name a few. Also, you know, the Emperor, who Roboute has a conversation with in the novel Dark Imperium.

Cawl has to remember his ticks for 10'000 years so he's pretty unreliable, Cypher dips in and out of the Warp and may not even be the original Cypher assuming that he knew Guilliman that well anyway and Magnus is full on Chaos so he could easily be in on any plans. Who said he talks with the Emperor? He's dead.

Plus every one of those people is either a Traitor or does a lot of things against the Imperium. Not counting Big E who's dead.

We see Guilliman have a conversation with the Emperor in Dark Imperium. I don't know how much more clear cut you can get that both Guilliman IS Guilliman, and that the Emperor is still alive.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

darthryan wrote:
How many people that actualy met guilliman 10,000 yrs ago are there and how well wojuld they remember his every personality trait or tick

Cawl, Magnus, and Cypher, all of whom feature heavily in the book in which he returned, just to name a few. Also, you know, the Emperor, who Roboute has a conversation with in the novel Dark Imperium.

Cawl has to remember his ticks for 10'000 years so he's pretty unreliable, Cypher dips in and out of the Warp and may not even be the original Cypher assuming that he knew Guilliman that well anyway and Magnus is full on Chaos so he could easily be in on any plans. Who said he talks with the Emperor? He's dead.

Plus every one of those people is either a Traitor or does a lot of things against the Imperium. Not counting Big E who's dead.

We see Guilliman have a conversation with the Emperor in Dark Imperium. I don't know how much more clear cut you can get that both Guilliman IS Guilliman, and that the Emperor is still alive.

Spoiler:

Not my document, but for those who didn't read the book itself, here's the passage it refers to. Mods, if this isn't okay, feel free to delete.

That's pretty lame and boring. It actually being Alpharius lying about the Emperor would have been so much more interesting. No way around the dumb stuff there.

pm713 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

darthryan wrote:
How many people that actualy met guilliman 10,000 yrs ago are there and how well wojuld they remember his every personality trait or tick

Cawl, Magnus, and Cypher, all of whom feature heavily in the book in which he returned, just to name a few. Also, you know, the Emperor, who Roboute has a conversation with in the novel Dark Imperium.

Cawl has to remember his ticks for 10'000 years so he's pretty unreliable, Cypher dips in and out of the Warp and may not even be the original Cypher assuming that he knew Guilliman that well anyway and Magnus is full on Chaos so he could easily be in on any plans. Who said he talks with the Emperor? He's dead.

Plus every one of those people is either a Traitor or does a lot of things against the Imperium. Not counting Big E who's dead.

We see Guilliman have a conversation with the Emperor in Dark Imperium. I don't know how much more clear cut you can get that both Guilliman IS Guilliman, and that the Emperor is still alive.

Spoiler:

Not my document, but for those who didn't read the book itself, here's the passage it refers to. Mods, if this isn't okay, feel free to delete.

That's pretty lame and boring. It actually being Alpharius lying about the Emperor would have been so much more interesting. No way around the dumb stuff there.

The only thing lame with ALPHARIUS is the Praetorian Of Dorn novel.

Why?

pm713 wrote:
Why?

It isn't necessarily what happened to Alpharius, but how it was written. I'm sure you have the spoilers for it already, but if you haven't read it let us just say the author was a raging Imperial Fists fanboy with a total hard-on for Dorn.

I'm aware of what goes down in general but I've never heard of the fanboy thing. I take it it's not worth reading then?

pm713 wrote:
I'm aware of what goes down in general but I've never heard of the fanboy thing. I take it it's not worth reading then?

It's actually a very good book for the most part but the Alpha Legion do suffer in order to make the Imperial Fists look good. It totally undermines all the intrigue about Alpharius/Omegon established in "Legion". I am not a Chaos player but even I was disappointed in how badly they got beaten. Dorn basically takes on Alpharius at his own game and kicks in him in the wotsits. I won't give any more spoilers but the ending left a lot of people annoyed.

I didn't mind it, Dorn forced them into a head on fight and won. There are too many instances in the series of their covert actions making the other legions seem incompetent, it was about time it didn't go their way.

 JamesY wrote:
I didn't mind it, Dorn forced them into a head on fight and won. There are too many instances in the series of their covert actions making the other legions seem incompetent, it was about time it didn't go their way.

This, it was a good end. Alpharius just ends up paying for his hubris and his complex plots get tore down simply by Dorn's inherit immutability.

Yeah, Praetorian of Dorn was fine. The Alpha Legion got by on dull and boring moustache-twirling antics for way too long. Plus if anyone suffers from the Worf effect throughout the heresy novels, it's the Imperial Fists (with a strong second place from the Ultras), so it was nice, for once, to see them shown as being good at what they do.

If your whole shtick is that planning, initiative, and asymetrical warfare is where you sunk all your resources into, then when you get caught with your pants down, the guy whose whole shtick is prepared positions and defensive warfare is likely going to beat you.

You guys DO realize that Alpha Legion lose in most of the novels? So no, that's not an excuse. It's a poor book by a poor author.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You guys DO realize that Alpha Legion lose in most of the novels? So no, that's not an excuse. It's a poor book by a poor author.

as the saying goes "the best laid plans by mice and men" complex intrigues don't always work, sometimes events conspire to make them fail. it happens

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You guys DO realize that Alpha Legion lose in most of the novels? So no, that's not an excuse. It's a poor book by a poor author.

as the saying goes "the best laid plans by mice and men" complex intrigues don't always work, sometimes events conspire to make them fail. it happens

You're missing the point of the post on purpose I wager.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You guys DO realize that Alpha Legion lose in most of the novels? So no, that's not an excuse. It's a poor book by a poor author.

No it isn't, it's an alright book by a decent author. And I never suggested that they had been winning, I said that they had been making other legions look foolish, which they have. The fact that not all of their plans have worked out doesn't take away from the amount of damage they inflicted getting that far. Alpharius took a massive gamble putting operatives on Terra long before the heresy even started, and he paid the price for it when he lost. However, no reason why Omegon can't carry on as Alpharius, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see a resurgence of the character in 40k.