Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Russ for sure.

The warp can do weird things, but I really, REALLY, hope he isn't just a giant Wulfen. I mean the Wulfen mutation is caused by not being able to fully handle the Canis Helix, which is basically a part of Russ's DNA. It would make zero sense that he could not handle his own DNA. Even with the warp involved.

His pet wolves though, they will have definitely been affected by the warp.

 Weazel wrote:
Russ for sure.

The warp can do weird things, but I really, REALLY, hope he isn't just a giant Wulfen. I mean the Wulfen mutation is caused by not being able to fully handle the Canis Helix, which is basically a part of Russ's DNA. It would make zero sense that he could not handle his own DNA. Even with the warp involved.

His pet wolves though, they will have definitely been affected by the warp.

Whilst in the Warp though he may have been tested. Much like when heroes in films and comics are almost turned to the bad side with evil powers but end up using evil powers for good.

Tis a typical hero trope. Vegeta using Majin power to fight Buu, Ichigo being a visored. Ghost Rider using the Devil's own power against him. Hellboy, the list goes on.

It wouldn;t surprise me if they turned Russ into the Anti-Hero of the 40K verse. using the chaos/warp powers against themselves. Fighting fire with fire and all that.

 Formosa wrote:
I’m worried for any angron model that is in plastic, if the other 3 primarchs are anything to go by then it will be .... awful, GW makes ugly primarchs compared to FW, guiliman with his horribly proportioned armour and potato head, mortarion being so busy you don’t know where to look, Magnus and his stupid claw hand and feet (still the best of the 3 though).

If angron looks similar to any of these 3 I will be disappointed.

Well, prepare to be disappointed if that's how you feel.

I don't play Chaos but in my opinion Magnus is one of the best looking models GW has ever produced.

Stux wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I’m worried for any angron model that is in plastic, if the other 3 primarchs are anything to go by then it will be .... awful, GW makes ugly primarchs compared to FW, guiliman with his horribly proportioned armour and potato head, mortarion being so busy you don’t know where to look, Magnus and his stupid claw hand and feet (still the best of the 3 though).

If angron looks similar to any of these 3 I will be disappointed.

Well, prepare to be disappointed if that's how you feel.

I don't play Chaos but in my opinion Magnus is one of the best looking models GW has ever produced.

Objectively it is, I just can’t stand that stupid arm, ruins the whole model for me, it’s the best of the 3 by a long way though.

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Russ for sure.

The warp can do weird things, but I really, REALLY, hope he isn't just a giant Wulfen. I mean the Wulfen mutation is caused by not being able to fully handle the Canis Helix, which is basically a part of Russ's DNA. It would make zero sense that he could not handle his own DNA. Even with the warp involved.

His pet wolves though, they will have definitely been affected by the warp.

Whilst in the Warp though he may have been tested. Much like when heroes in films and comics are almost turned to the bad side with evil powers but end up using evil powers for good.

Tis a typical hero trope. Vegeta using Majin power to fight Buu, Ichigo being a visored. Ghost Rider using the Devil's own power against him. Hellboy, the list goes on.

It wouldn;t surprise me if they turned Russ into the Anti-Hero of the 40K verse. using the chaos/warp powers against themselves. Fighting fire with fire and all that.

Yeah well, it's their IP and they can write off pretty much everything they want. I just WISH he isn't a cheap Wulfen thingy. That would be a bit too unoriginal and "obvious". I want to be surprised.

 Weazel wrote:

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Russ for sure.

The warp can do weird things, but I really, REALLY, hope he isn't just a giant Wulfen. I mean the Wulfen mutation is caused by not being able to fully handle the Canis Helix, which is basically a part of Russ's DNA. It would make zero sense that he could not handle his own DNA. Even with the warp involved.

His pet wolves though, they will have definitely been affected by the warp.

Whilst in the Warp though he may have been tested. Much like when heroes in films and comics are almost turned to the bad side with evil powers but end up using evil powers for good.

Tis a typical hero trope. Vegeta using Majin power to fight Buu, Ichigo being a visored. Ghost Rider using the Devil's own power against him. Hellboy, the list goes on.

It wouldn;t surprise me if they turned Russ into the Anti-Hero of the 40K verse. using the chaos/warp powers against themselves. Fighting fire with fire and all that.

Yeah well, it's their IP and they can write off pretty much everything they want. I just WISH he isn't a cheap Wulfen thingy. That would be a bit too unoriginal and "obvious". I want to be surprised.

Maybe he will come back on a sleigh pulled by wolves? :p

 Formosa wrote:
I’m worried for any angron model that is in plastic, if the other 3 primarchs are anything to go by then it will be .... awful, GW makes ugly primarchs compared to FW, guiliman with his horribly proportioned armour and potato head, mortarion being so busy you don’t know where to look, Magnus and his stupid claw hand and feet (still the best of the 3 though).

If angron looks similar to any of these 3 I will be disappointed.

Well about only thing we can tell for sure about what Angron(or any plastic primarch) is they won't be similar enough to HH versions that you could use them in either game.

Doubly more so for daemonic versions but I bet even 30k daemonic angron will be somehow different enough they won't be cross-usable.

 Weazel wrote:
Russ for sure.

The warp can do weird things, but I really, REALLY, hope he isn't just a giant Wulfen. I mean the Wulfen mutation is caused by not being able to fully handle the Canis Helix, which is basically a part of Russ's DNA. It would make zero sense that he could not handle his own DNA. Even with the warp involved.

His pet wolves though, they will have definitely been affected by the warp.

Freki and Geri are long dead.

Making him a giant Wulfen is exactly the kind of thing GW would do. My advice for everyone is to murder your hope and then you're either not disappointed or pleasantly surprised.

tneva82 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I’m worried for any angron model that is in plastic, if the other 3 primarchs are anything to go by then it will be .... awful, GW makes ugly primarchs compared to FW, guiliman with his horribly proportioned armour and potato head, mortarion being so busy you don’t know where to look, Magnus and his stupid claw hand and feet (still the best of the 3 though).

If angron looks similar to any of these 3 I will be disappointed.

Well about only thing we can tell for sure about what Angron(or any plastic primarch) is they won't be similar enough to HH versions that you could use them in either game.

Doubly more so for daemonic versions but I bet even 30k daemonic angron will be somehow different enough they won't be cross-usable.

I expect him to be huge. Power armoured Bloodthirster essentially.

 Weazel wrote:
Russ for sure.

The warp can do weird things, but I really, REALLY, hope he isn't just a giant Wulfen. I mean the Wulfen mutation is caused by not being able to fully handle the Canis Helix, which is basically a part of Russ's DNA. It would make zero sense that he could not handle his own DNA. Even with the warp involved.

His pet wolves though, they will have definitely been affected by the warp.

I'm crossing my fingers that we get a normal version and wulfen version. Lots of rumors went around when the AoS snake lady was released to have 2 forms. Lots of thoughts that it was testing for other models to do it, mainly leman russ. Perhaps he has embraced the boon of the wulfen?

Stux wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I’m worried for any angron model that is in plastic, if the other 3 primarchs are anything to go by then it will be .... awful, GW makes ugly primarchs compared to FW, guiliman with his horribly proportioned armour and potato head, mortarion being so busy you don’t know where to look, Magnus and his stupid claw hand and feet (still the best of the 3 though).

If angron looks similar to any of these 3 I will be disappointed.

Well about only thing we can tell for sure about what Angron(or any plastic primarch) is they won't be similar enough to HH versions that you could use them in either game.

Doubly more so for daemonic versions but I bet even 30k daemonic angron will be somehow different enough they won't be cross-usable.

I expect him to be huge. Power armoured Bloodthirster essentially.

I honestly hope for one thing: as he takes damage he gets faster and deadlier, and his aura (whatever it is) gets stronger / bigger. He'd be the ultimate bullet magnet but it would be the fluffiest way to make his rules. I PRAY they don't give him a useless ability like Slaughterborn that takes the place of something that's potentially better. If World Eaters get something like, "When X models die in Y range of a World Eater unit, that World Eaters unit gets Z+ (BLANK)", movement or attacks or something. Encourage close combat with the close combat units.

Russ but they'll do something stupid like put him on a santa sleigh being pulled by bigger wolves

Story wise there needs to be 2 loyalist primarch releases, even Matt Ward wouldn't say Guilliman can take on 2 daemon primarchs at once

So with that my moneys on Russ cause there's no codex, but I'd like to see Vulkan or Corvus, even Khan really. Frankly I have the intention of buying all the loyalist primarchs.

But I don't see Ferrus returning unless he's cloned or retconned in

In "Ashes of Prospero", Njal tries to skry for Russ's return. His vision is pretty cryptic but it implies that the Lion, Khan and Corax will return to the Imperium while Fulgrim, Angron and Lorgar will join their daemonic brothers.

Russ was not part of his vision but then if he had the whole anti-psyker mojo going, Njal might not have been able to see him.

 Karhedron wrote:
In "Ashes of Prospero", Njal tries to skry for Russ's return. His vision is pretty cryptic but it implies that the Lion, Khan and Corax will return to the Imperium while Fulgrim, Angron and Lorgar will join their daemonic brothers.

Russ was not part of his vision but then if he had the whole anti-psyker mojo going, Njal might not have been able to see him.

Anti psyker stuff should not apply, as it’s a well established fact that rune priests aren’t psykers, they are shamans connecting with he spirit of Fenris.

Or whatever they want to shovel.



I’d put my cash on the Lion and Russ being the next to loyalists. Fulgrim and Angron for the traitors.

Who the 4th loyalist would be is a lot more up in the air. I’d bet on Vulcan personally.

 Nevelon wrote:

Who the 4th loyalist would be is a lot more up in the air. I’d bet on Vulcan personally.

Yup, I'm in the camp expecting their current plans to end at 4 Primarchs a piece. Not that more aren't possible eventually, but any more will likely be a lot longer. Chaos being the 4 god aligned ones, and loyalists being Guilliman, Lion, Russ, and one more.

I could see a way to bring Sanguinius back, and for parity that makes sense. But I'm not convinced it's what Blood Angels players want, and they should be the main market.

So I can totally see Vulkan. Two main reasons:

1) he's SUPER easy to bring back, because he is explicitly unkillable. He's probably insane, but he's almost definitely alive.

2) even though Salamanders aren't quite as popular as the chapters with their own books, Vulkan seems generally very popular as a character even outside of those who collect his gene sires. He's just a real cool guy!

I could see the sanguinator being re-done as a centerpiece model for the BA, but I think GW won’t bring their primarch back.

But something like St. Celestine, but a BA, would fill a similar niche, and not butcher the fluff.

Honestly if it was up to me we never would have had even Guilliman return, and Cawl wouldn't exist. But that ship has sailed...I might be able to live with Russ or Fulgrim/Angron. But bringing back Sanguinius or Ferrus would disgust me. The more primarchs they add to 40k the less of a point there is in 30k as a setting...or even as an event as if primarchs just return from death then there was no severe consequences.

Dorn would be my prefered primarch to have added.

Stux wrote:
My prediction is this year we will see Russ and Angron, both tied in to an Armageddon related campaign book. Likely some new Ork stuff too, and if we're really good maybe a Steel Legion kit/upgrades!

Next year I think will be Fulgrim and The Lion, with a campaign that expands on the Fallen. We'll likely see Luther too, and maybe even that awesome sounding lion headed Daemon Prince Marbas will get a model!

I really hope so. Although im having no problem running my fallen with alpha legion rules, it would be nice having our own set of rules to allow us to build a true fluffy fallen list.

I also hope we get a marbas model. Although Im pretty happy with my DIY conversion (see my gallery) that is leading my fallen and a horde of daemons currently.

fishwaffle2232 wrote:

Stux wrote:
My prediction is this year we will see Russ and Angron, both tied in to an Armageddon related campaign book. Likely some new Ork stuff too, and if we're really good maybe a Steel Legion kit/upgrades!

Next year I think will be Fulgrim and The Lion, with a campaign that expands on the Fallen. We'll likely see Luther too, and maybe even that awesome sounding lion headed Daemon Prince Marbas will get a model!

I really hope so. Although im having no problem running my fallen with alpha legion rules, it would be nice having our own set of rules to allow us to build a true fluffy fallen list.

I also hope we get a marbas model. Although Im pretty happy with my DIY conversion (see my gallery) that is leading my fallen and a horde of daemons currently.

I expect the campaign book to have expanded rules for running Fallen as a full fledged Chaos Legion. That would mean giving them a Legion Trait, allowing them to take Fallen as Troops, a unique relic, and a unique Strat. They'd also get Marbas as a unique HQ choice.

The only thing is I'm not sure where this puts Cypher, as I don't buy him being full Chaos... I could possibly see them ALSO giving rules for running Fallen as a Space Marine chapter, with separate Tactic, relic and Strat, and with Cypher as their unique HQ.

We could even have a Luther who can run with either sub faction.

This is purely based on my own hunches and what I would do of course!

Stux wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Who the 4th loyalist would be is a lot more up in the air. I’d bet on Vulcan personally.

Yup, I'm in the camp expecting their current plans to end at 4 Primarchs a piece. Not that more aren't possible eventually, but any more will likely be a lot longer. Chaos being the 4 god aligned ones, and loyalists being Guilliman, Lion, Russ, and one more.

I could see a way to bring Sanguinius back, and for parity that makes sense. But I'm not convinced it's what Blood Angels players want, and they should be the main market.

So I can totally see Vulkan. Two main reasons:

1) he's SUPER easy to bring back, because he is explicitly unkillable. He's probably insane, but he's almost definitely alive.

2) even though Salamanders aren't quite as popular as the chapters with their own books, Vulkan seems generally very popular as a character even outside of those who collect his gene sires. He's just a real cool guy!

Old earth changed that, Vulkan May not be a perpetual anymore (he doesn’t know) and he is completely sane.

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:

Process wrote:

Stux wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
They will then have 2 models to buy if they like. They will after all be different in looks as well so even on looks department they won't be competing with each other.

Ok, but they'd be more likely to buy both models of a Primarch they like if the releases are spaced out.

Look, I'm not saying this factor is necessarily enough to dictate a release schedule, just that it is a factor they will be accounting for.

Pretty sure both the Magnus models came out within a very short time period. I don't believe FW and GW time releases to coincide most of the time.

BTW i know both Khan and Dorn are unlikely, they're just the ones id like to see.

GW will see profit with the snowflake primarchs. There are 4 loyals and 4 traitors that will have both their own model and codex by the end of 2019.

Ultramarines
Dark angels
Blood angels
Wolves

World eaters
Emperors children
Death Guard
Thousand sons

Just out of curiosity how do you prosose Sanguinius will come back to life? He's like properly dead killed by Horus.

Dante ascends in battle.

Seems easier to pull a Girlyman and just resurrect his corpse.

 fraser1191 wrote:
Story wise there needs to be 2 loyalist primarch releases, even Matt Ward wouldn't say Guilliman can take on 2 daemon primarchs at once

So with that my moneys on Russ cause there's no codex, but I'd like to see Vulkan or Corvus, even Khan really. Frankly I have the intention of buying all the loyalist primarchs.

But I don't see Ferrus returning unless he's cloned or retconned in

Guilliman took on an entire legion in space by himself. 2 daemon prince is child play.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
Story wise there needs to be 2 loyalist primarch releases, even Matt Ward wouldn't say Guilliman can take on 2 daemon primarchs at once

So with that my moneys on Russ cause there's no codex, but I'd like to see Vulkan or Corvus, even Khan really. Frankly I have the intention of buying all the loyalist primarchs.

But I don't see Ferrus returning unless he's cloned or retconned in

Guilliman took on an entire legion in space by himself. 2 daemon prince is child play.

There's a great deal of difference between a demon prince and a demon primarch. Most Primarchs could match guilliman if not exceed him without Chaos enhancement. With it one is more than a challenge and two is like sending land speeders to kill a battlecruiser.

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:


Whilst in the Warp though he may have been tested. Much like when heroes in films and comics are almost turned to the bad side with evil powers but end up using evil powers for good.

Tis a typical hero trope. Vegeta using Majin power to fight Buu, Ichigo being a visored. Ghost Rider using the Devil's own power against him. Hellboy, the list goes on.

It wouldn;t surprise me if they turned Russ into the Anti-Hero of the 40K verse. using the chaos/warp powers against themselves. Fighting fire with fire and all that.

This is an interesting view that I haven't even considered before. After reading a lot of the Horus Heresy fluff for Russ I could really get behind this idea.

Stux wrote:

fishwaffle2232 wrote:

Stux wrote:
My prediction is this year we will see Russ and Angron, both tied in to an Armageddon related campaign book. Likely some new Ork stuff too, and if we're really good maybe a Steel Legion kit/upgrades!

Next year I think will be Fulgrim and The Lion, with a campaign that expands on the Fallen. We'll likely see Luther too, and maybe even that awesome sounding lion headed Daemon Prince Marbas will get a model!

I really hope so. Although im having no problem running my fallen with alpha legion rules, it would be nice having our own set of rules to allow us to build a true fluffy fallen list.

I also hope we get a marbas model. Although Im pretty happy with my DIY conversion (see my gallery) that is leading my fallen and a horde of daemons currently.

I expect the campaign book to have expanded rules for running Fallen as a full fledged Chaos Legion. That would mean giving them a Legion Trait, allowing them to take Fallen as Troops, a unique relic, and a unique Strat. They'd also get Marbas as a unique HQ choice.

The only thing is I'm not sure where this puts Cypher, as I don't buy him being full Chaos... I could possibly see them ALSO giving rules for running Fallen as a Space Marine chapter, with separate Tactic, relic and Strat, and with Cypher as their unique HQ.

We could even have a Luther who can run with either sub faction.

This is purely based on my own hunches and what I would do of course!

I don't see Cyphers rules changing much I think it fits well within the fluff currently being able to be chaos or loyal.

What im wondering is how GW will choose to progress their story. For such a long time it seemed as though they wanted to make their alleigence a bit ambiguous. But with where the fluff is heading it looks like they will largely be a CSM faction. All of the HH novels hinted heavily at them being tainted by the sway of chaos, paticularly zahariel and luther. Now with an emphasis on Marbas as a key, or 'the' key player in the return of the fallen it looks like that ambiguity is gone.
The fallen were and always have been the bad guys. At least more bad (badder?) than the dark angels. Im also curious to see how they will bring back luther. By all accounts he went crazy in the rock. Kept alive since the event of caliban to be tortured and interrogated endlessly. Lets just hope the fluff writers dont get lazy and pretend like he miraculously just returned to the full functioning badass he was before he was captured.

A conversion/upgrade kit to make some fallen in old heresy era armour and robes would be nice too. It ends up being really expensive having to get the veteran marines box + FW 30k marine boxes.

Stux wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Who the 4th loyalist would be is a lot more up in the air. I’d bet on Vulcan personally.

Yup, I'm in the camp expecting their current plans to end at 4 Primarchs a piece. Not that more aren't possible eventually, but any more will likely be a lot longer. Chaos being the 4 god aligned ones, and loyalists being Guilliman, Lion, Russ, and one more.

I could see a way to bring Sanguinius back, and for parity that makes sense. But I'm not convinced it's what Blood Angels players want, and they should be the main market.

So I can totally see Vulkan. Two main reasons:

1) he's SUPER easy to bring back, because he is explicitly unkillable. He's probably insane, but he's almost definitely alive.

2) even though Salamanders aren't quite as popular as the chapters with their own books, Vulkan seems generally very popular as a character even outside of those who collect his gene sires. He's just a real cool guy!

4+4 is definitely the obvious starting point but if they do well then expanding to 6+6 to cover all of the living primarchs doesn't seem like a big stretch.

Sanguinius will likely be resurrected. Not exactly as Guilliman was, but through some other yet-to-be revealed method I'm sure.

The vampire element is too strong in the fluff to not see that this was always something that was going to happen eventually. At least in my opinion.

The question is when will Sanguinius return, and what kind of changes will have taken place in Sanguinius's psyche due to Horus's betrayal and Psychic damage inflicted when the death blow was struck.

I'm convinced we're going to see 'death company Sanguinius' that is a darker and damaged version of himself, in battle he is fury made manifest, barely in control versus his Heresy era noble bright self.

We'll see. Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-