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hobojebus wrote:
The lion didn't win russ just realised how stupid the fight was and was busy letting out his frustrations through laughter when the lion autisticly raging sucker punched him.

Also the wolves were not killed by Magnus they are alive and well in the wolf king novel.

One had its head smashed in and the other got tossed across Tizca... Is it Freki and Geri or just random wolves in Wolf King?

In fact I just read both leman russ and the wolf king just the other week and I must disagree with your interpretation.

Russ sees the lion reduced to the level of a street brawler and he losses it bursting into uncontrollable laughter and the lion with his aspurgers didn't get the joke and took the shot when his guard was down.

It's the difference between them if a vlka says something russ does not like he'll get a broken jaw and it'll be forgotten, if a dark Angel says something the lion does not like he gets his head lopped off like nemial the chaplain did.

What's more you have the way he broke his word to girlyman and the Angel using methods he was forbidden by lawyering his way around it so he could use over kill on ultramar .

Then there's using xenos tech to guide his fleet while hiding it from his brothers.

The lion is a dick.

Growing up with chaos beasts for company does that to a person. Seems silly to complain about him using xenos tech though when you consider that girlymans a traitor, sanguinius is a mutant and a whole bunch of other primarchs do bad things.

hobojebus wrote:

Then there's using xenos tech to guide his fleet while hiding it from his brothers.

I'm not super familiar with the Horus Heresy era, so looking to be educated:

Was it quite so taboo to use xenos tech back then? I mean, I'm sure Mars wouldn't exactly be thrilled, but this is pre Imperial Cult and Primarchs are second only to the Emperor himself, so I wouldn't have thought it would be a big deal if they decided it was necessary.

Vulkan and Magnus.

Vulkan would baffle the rest the entire fight. Magnus would just wreck everything else. This is pre-heresy, the rest really wouldn't have their abilities yet. Magnus can literally flay them alive, there are a couple of the loyalists who would maybe fight back a bit but come on.

Just a reminder, Magnus threw the fight between him and Russ, he held back and wanted to die. He is also supposed to be the psychic replacement to manage/rule the human webway that the Emperor created, he is insanely powerful, and then he is a primarch.

He didn't want to die that much seeing as he ran away. All Primarchs are insanely strong even the 'weak' ones. Plus Malcador was good enough to use the Throne for a bit and considering he wasn't meant to open it forever the Thrones not as big as it sounds.

How does Vulkan 'baffle' anyone? He's hardly the complex and sneaky Primarch...

pm713 wrote:
He didn't want to die that much seeing as he ran away.

"Ran away" - what book were you reading?

Stux wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

Then there's using xenos tech to guide his fleet while hiding it from his brothers.

I'm not super familiar with the Horus Heresy era, so looking to be educated:

Was it quite so taboo to use xenos tech back then? I mean, I'm sure Mars wouldn't exactly be thrilled, but this is pre Imperial Cult and Primarchs are second only to the Emperor himself, so I wouldn't have thought it would be a big deal if they decided it was necessary.

It’s not Xenos tech no, it’s a demonic A.I if anything, it’s called tuchalcha


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tuchulcha


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hobojebus wrote:
In fact I just read both leman russ and the wolf king just the other week and I must disagree with your interpretation.

Russ sees the lion reduced to the level of a street brawler and he losses it bursting into uncontrollable laughter and the lion with his aspurgers didn't get the joke and took the shot when his guard was down.

It's the difference between them if a vlka says something russ does not like he'll get a broken jaw and it'll be forgotten, if a dark Angel says something the lion does not like he gets his head lopped off like nemial the chaplain did.

What's more you have the way he broke his word to girlyman and the Angel using methods he was forbidden by lawyering his way around it so he could use over kill on ultramar .

Then there's using xenos tech to guide his fleet while hiding it from his brothers.

The lion is a dick.

So much wrong with this post.

The part you are referring to is AFTER the lion had his opertunity, you either glossed over it or ignored it if you have read the book.

Nemiel directly refused an order from his primarch that would have led to the deaths of more of his “little brothers” in front of his command staff, the whole situation could have been handled much better by all involved.

Russ attacked both lion and angron based on perceived slights or an overinflated sense of self importance, he was wrong in both cases.

He broke his word to guiliman and was correct in doing so, guiliman should handled the situation much much earlier and it would not have happened, it’s his fault.

He uses tuchachla, which is not Xenos tech, to defeat the night lords and later try to get to terra, and in doing so defeats a great threat to the imperium, his actions are entirely vindicated and given what we later find out about tuchacha, he was completely correct to hide its existence.

Well I don't think you calling me a liar is really going to work out well for you, I'm all in favour of spirited debate but that's crossing a line.

hobojebus wrote:
Well I don't think you calling me a liar is really going to work out well for you, I'm all in favour of spirited debate but that's crossing a line.

Quote where I called you a liar, go ahead, I’ll wait.

 mrhappyface wrote:

pm713 wrote:
He didn't want to die that much seeing as he ran away.

"Ran away" - what book were you reading?

The one where Magnus teleported away? With all the Thousand Sons? To the Warp? Where they went full on Chaos and did the Rubric? You know the basics of the Thousand Sons right?

pm713 wrote:
He didn't want to die that much seeing as he ran away. All Primarchs are insanely strong even the 'weak' ones. Plus Malcador was good enough to use the Throne for a bit and considering he wasn't meant to open it forever the Thrones not as big as it sounds.

How does Vulkan 'baffle' anyone? He's hardly the complex and sneaky Primarch...

Malcador is literally the greatest Human Psychic to ever exist. Now make him a Primarch and you have Magnus. (He could not stand up to the throne physically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

pm713 wrote:
He didn't want to die that much seeing as he ran away.

"Ran away" - what book were you reading?

The one where Magnus teleported away? With all the Thousand Sons? To the Warp? Where they went full on Chaos and did the Rubric? You know the basics of the Thousand Sons right?

The story kind of has three parts.

Part I. Magnus is disgraced at his actions and hides in his tower accepting his fate.
Part II. Magnus changes his mind and decides to save his sons but sacrifice himself in the process. (Delay russ while doing Warp Stuff)
Part III. Tzeench tricking Magnus for a final time by elevating him to Daemonhood when he "helps" Magnus transport his sons to the Eye.

Magnus, without in the midst of literally conjuring a miracle of insane scale would crush Russ in a 1v1.

pm713 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

pm713 wrote:
He didn't want to die that much seeing as he ran away.

"Ran away" - what book were you reading?

The one where Magnus teleported away? With all the Thousand Sons? To the Warp? Where they went full on Chaos and did the Rubric? You know the basics of the Thousand Sons right?

I was more thinking of the story where Magnus sacrifices himself to save his legion but then Tzeentch decides to 'save' Magnus and turn him into a Daemon Prince. Magnus wanted to die on that day but wanted Ahriman and the legion to live on.

Yet he didn't. At all. Magnus has never done the "crush the enemy with a thought" thing. He didn't at Prospero, he didn't at Prospero again against the Wolves, he didn't at the Battle of the Fang and he didn't at the weird invasion of Fenris.

Okay? Take the greatest warrior of an entire people who spend their lives slaying monsters and other monster hunters. Make him a Primarch and you have Russ. You can do that with all the Primarchs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

pm713 wrote:
He didn't want to die that much seeing as he ran away.

"Ran away" - what book were you reading?

The one where Magnus teleported away? With all the Thousand Sons? To the Warp? Where they went full on Chaos and did the Rubric? You know the basics of the Thousand Sons right?

I was more thinking of the story where Magnus sacrifices himself to save his legion but then Tzeentch decides to 'save' Magnus and turn him into a Daemon Prince. Magnus wanted to die on that day but wanted Ahriman and the legion to live on.

Ah so fanfiction then. Seeing as Magnus didn't sacrifice himself at all. Or is the Demon Primarch 'Magnus' actually Demon Primarch Omegon?

pm713 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

pm713 wrote:
He didn't want to die that much seeing as he ran away.

"Ran away" - what book were you reading?

The one where Magnus teleported away? With all the Thousand Sons? To the Warp? Where they went full on Chaos and did the Rubric? You know the basics of the Thousand Sons right?

I was more thinking of the story where Magnus sacrifices himself to save his legion but then Tzeentch decides to 'save' Magnus and turn him into a Daemon Prince. Magnus wanted to die on that day but wanted Ahriman and the legion to live on.

Ah so fanfiction then. Seeing as Magnus didn't sacrifice himself at all. Or is the Demon Primarch 'Magnus' actually Demon Primarch Omegon?

What the hell are you talking about? 'Fanfiction'? The story literally talks about how he thought he was going to die and was only fighting Russ to protect his legion and give Ahriman time to enact the ritual that would save the legion. The book talks about Magnus being surprised by the ritual teleporting him as well.

pm713 wrote:
Yet he didn't. At all. Magnus has never done the "crush the enemy with a thought" thing. He didn't at Prospero, he didn't at Prospero again against the Wolves, he didn't at the Battle of the Fang and he didn't at the weird invasion of Fenris.

Okay? Take the greatest warrior of an entire people who spend their lives slaying monsters and other monster hunters. Make him a Primarch and you have Russ. You can do that with all the Primarchs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

pm713 wrote:
He didn't want to die that much seeing as he ran away.

"Ran away" - what book were you reading?

The one where Magnus teleported away? With all the Thousand Sons? To the Warp? Where they went full on Chaos and did the Rubric? You know the basics of the Thousand Sons right?

I was more thinking of the story where Magnus sacrifices himself to save his legion but then Tzeentch decides to 'save' Magnus and turn him into a Daemon Prince. Magnus wanted to die on that day but wanted Ahriman and the legion to live on.

Ah so fanfiction then. Seeing as Magnus didn't sacrifice himself at all. Or is the Demon Primarch 'Magnus' actually Demon Primarch Omegon?

Yep he did, book 7 HH and prospero burns show this quite clearly.

As for raw power, he stopped a starship from crashing into a planet on top of him, killed a titan with mind bullets and fought the second most powerful daemon we have seen in the setting and lived (he lost, but lived), Magnus has Russ beat if he decided to go full on him, his soul is shattered afterward so it’s not hard to see why he isn’t as powerful as he could be in 40k

In a battle royal, most likely Corax or Lion.

Corax has precognition, Lion would most likely pretend to fight until he sees an opportune moment to sucker punch 'strategically'/when he sees the end of the fight.

 sfshilo wrote:
Vulkan and Magnus.

Vulkan would baffle the rest the entire fight. Magnus would just wreck everything else. This is pre-heresy, the rest really wouldn't have their abilities yet. Magnus can literally flay them alive, there are a couple of the loyalists who would maybe fight back a bit but come on.

Just a reminder, Magnus threw the fight between him and Russ, he held back and wanted to die. He is also supposed to be the psychic replacement to manage/rule the human webway that the Emperor created, he is insanely powerful, and then he is a primarch.

Yes he's insanely powerful. So are others. Canon all can beat other on one on one. Yeah Magnus probably has advantage but it's not "haha you are dead" level of advantage.

Sanguinius would win. He was the most powerfull of the primarchs if we combined his wings+pyshical strenght+psychic might+combat habilities. But he nearly never did his best in combat, unlike others as Russ or Argron

Argron wouldn't win in 100000 years because the Primarchs wheren't made equal, and as much as Argron said otherwhise, the Butcher's Nails destroyed him. Without them he would have been much more powerfull (Pre-daemonhood, of course, after-daemonhood I don't think the Butcher's Nails matter)

And I say this as a Dark Angel's player.

Buut, Horus killed Sanguinius... and I don't think he had to try very hard.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Buut, Horus killed Sanguinius... and I don't think he had to try very hard.

The same overpowered by the four gods Horus who was strong enough to "kill" the emperor even if he wasnt fifhting back.
No other primarch barring sanguinius would have made an opening in horus armour in that moment.

 Galas wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Buut, Horus killed Sanguinius... and I don't think he had to try very hard.

The same overpowered by the four gods Horus who was strong enough to "kill" the emperor even if he wasnt fifhting back.
No other primarch barring sanguinius would have made an opening in horus armour in that moment.

Sorry dude but that’s old fluff, they have since toned down sanguinius, he fought curze and KNEW curze would kill him eventually, which doesn’t sit well with me, hopefully they fix this in later novels because as it stands, sang is in the same tier as curze, mega powerful but not top 3.

To me it’s currently (based on current fluff)

Horus (unbuffed)
Lion/Russ
Angron
Sanguinius/curze

Sang should be joint first but due to the I remembered empire series isn’t at the moment.

hmm I should have made a poll for this.

tneva82 wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:
Vulkan and Magnus.

Vulkan would baffle the rest the entire fight. Magnus would just wreck everything else. This is pre-heresy, the rest really wouldn't have their abilities yet. Magnus can literally flay them alive, there are a couple of the loyalists who would maybe fight back a bit but come on.

Just a reminder, Magnus threw the fight between him and Russ, he held back and wanted to die. He is also supposed to be the psychic replacement to manage/rule the human webway that the Emperor created, he is insanely powerful, and then he is a primarch.

Yes he's insanely powerful. So are others. Canon all can beat other on one on one. Yeah Magnus probably has advantage but it's not "haha you are dead" level of advantage.

Well if you remember shrike in thousand sons russ can cut people off from the warp with his howl.

Gladiator combat is Angron's forte!

craftworld_uk wrote:
Gladiator combat is Angron's forte!

We he had to be good at something, clearly revolution was beyond him.

I voted Mortarion just because I'm a fanboy.

For this poll to make any sense, we need to agree on what exactly we're voting for.

Is this:

a) pre heresy
b) during heresy
c) current 40k timeline
d) the peak of each Primarch, whatever time that would be

For me:

a) I would say Sang, Lion, or Russ
b) I would say Horus pumped on the 4 god's
c) I would say Magnus
d) is tougher, probably Horus or Magnus