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After finally having the change to play in a large event with the Beta FAQ, I have realized that the change from 3 to 5 CP for battalions is healthy for the game.

I am a Tyranid player. I played a GT last weekend (I put a tournament report in the Tyranid Tactics thread). It was my first chance to play since the FAQ dropped. I'm rather salty about the FAQ, due to how it hit 'nids, and went in thinking that the CP change was a mistake. I ran three detachments in order to take advantage of various Hive Fleet shenanigans, and it was easy enough to make them all Battalions.

Between conversations with other players and my own experiences, I think the change is actually a stealth nerf to IG. Previously, an IG player who wanted to could ensure that they had all the CP they wanted. Most IG players I know tended to end games with CP left over, and often ran into the situation where they didn't really have anything good to spend them on. In contrast, other factions tended to have to make hard choices, either burning them early or saving them for a key moment. Sure, there are various ways to get them back, or get more, but by and large IG had all they needed and everybody else didn't, unless they allied in IG.

With the FAQ, now suddenly everybody has access to enough CP to not use them all by turn 2. Sure, IG is still the best at generating CP, but by increasing the amount of CP everyone has access to, the advantage IG had of not running out of CP early in the game went away. Armies that don't ally in IG can now get 13-18 CP with reasonable builds. 9 vs 18 CP is a much greater disadvantage than 15 vs 30 CP. Maximizing CP via allies/odd builds is less attractive now. End result: an IG advantage was significant reduced by strengthening all other armies.

I've enjoyed it quite a bit. It did get a little annoying trying to charge an IG flyer while he popped Vengeance for Cadia and Defensive Gunners every damn time and it still didn't run him out of CP.

Then again he didn't have much else to use it on (other than auto-pass morale, damnit), so...

The CP change is certainly helpful for a lot of armies that were really struggling. As a fellow Tyranids player I planned on running out by turn 2. Now, i'll have some for turn 3.

You are right that it is so easy for pure Guard to get CP that they don't really need more. But for Imperium that soup in Guard, this is a huge benefit. Essentially paying 200 points for 5 CP and getting screens is something any Imperium army should do.

I don't think it's as 1 dimensional as you make it out to be. If anything this has really encouraged souping, so you have more varied ways to spend your CP.

My army went from averaging 6 CP (three outriders) to 9 (batt+outrider). Immortals giving more CP increased their value, which I believe was the first intention of the change, and it also gives me more toys to play with longer, which is fun.

 Marmatag wrote:
The CP change is certainly helpful for a lot of armies that were really struggling. As a fellow Tyranids player I planned on running out by turn 2. Now, i'll have some for turn 3.

You are right that it is so easy for pure Guard to get CP that they don't really need more. But for Imperium that soup in Guard, this is a huge benefit. Essentially paying 200 points for 5 CP and getting screens is something any Imperium army should do.

I don't think it's as 1 dimensional as you make it out to be. If anything this has really encouraged souping, so you have more varied ways to spend your CP.

I don't actually mind souping, or power lists. I mind when the power disparity is so large that play ends up as one or two power lists vs each other and everything else is regulated to the bottom tables. I have been playing tournaments since 5th edition, and I honestly think the game is in the best state it has been in that entire time.

I don't really disagree with you that the FAQ encourages souping, or that Imperials are better off than Zenos/Chaos CP wise. I do think that command point wise, the FAQ reduced the disparity between Imperium and non-Imperium armies, which is a good thing. Could it be better? Sure. This is GW, at best you get two steps forward and one back.

I'd like to see CP generation open up for other factions. Off the top of my head, Tau could get upgrades/units that let them get CP back on easy to make rolls (fuff wise, tech upgrades making command and control easier), Chaos could get a Chaos Cults/Lost and the Dammed that act like IG do for the Imperium, and DE could get something that gains them CP when they kill units. That gives everybody except Tyranids a reasonably fluffy source for souping in CP generation. Tyranids can be handled with Stealer Cult-gain CP when certain units die, or steal them when you kill HQ's, something like that.

My major problem is that I thought CP were supposed to be unique abilities you find in video games like a super ability in a Dota game. Something rarely used to just slightly turn the tides of battle when you ned it most. Now they're just so much part of the game you might as well get rid of them and make them pure upgrades again like they used to be. Or get rid of cp as a whole and make it so you can only use 1 per phase.

 lolman1c wrote:
My major problem is that I thought CP were supposed to be unique abilities you find in video games like a super ability in a Dota game. Something rarely used to just slightly turn the tides of battle when you ned it most. Now they're just so much part of the game you might as well get rid of them and make them pure upgrades again like they used to be. Or get rid of cp as a whole and make it so you can only use 1 per phase.

That's definitely something you brought to the table yourself. GW's made it very clear since the start of 8th that Strats and CP were a major component of 8th and not a sometime thing.

 lolman1c wrote:
My major problem is that I thought CP were supposed to be unique abilities you find in video games like a super ability in a Dota game. Something rarely used to just slightly turn the tides of battle when you ned it most. Now they're just so much part of the game you might as well get rid of them and make them pure upgrades again like they used to be. Or get rid of cp as a whole and make it so you can only use 1 per phase.

That's why they cost different amounts. Making a second fight phase usually costs 3 Cp, because as you say it is a massive power move. Rerolling something for 1 Cp is a third of the cost, and isnt THAT impactful.

 lolman1c wrote:
My major problem is that I thought CP were supposed to be unique abilities you find in video games like a super ability in a Dota game. Something rarely used to just slightly turn the tides of battle when you ned it most. Now they're just so much part of the game you might as well get rid of them and make them pure upgrades again like they used to be. Or get rid of cp as a whole and make it so you can only use 1 per phase.

My problem with them is how they are totally unscalable. Anything that doesn't scale is definition of bad game desige and leads to death star syndrome

 Platuan4th wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
My major problem is that I thought CP were supposed to be unique abilities you find in video games like a super ability in a Dota game. Something rarely used to just slightly turn the tides of battle when you ned it most. Now they're just so much part of the game you might as well get rid of them and make them pure upgrades again like they used to be. Or get rid of cp as a whole and make it so you can only use 1 per phase.

That's definitely something you brought to the table yourself. GW's made it very clear since the start of 8th that Strats and CP were a major component of 8th and not a sometime thing.

In their first article they made them sound precious:

That Tactical Re-roll can be used to ensure a critical high-damage attack wounds a key enemy unit. But at the same time, your opponent could just as easily use theirs to re-roll that critical armour save. Or maybe you want to keep ahold of them to make sure you make that vital charge next turn?

 lolman1c wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
My major problem is that I thought CP were supposed to be unique abilities you find in video games like a super ability in a Dota game. Something rarely used to just slightly turn the tides of battle when you ned it most. Now they're just so much part of the game you might as well get rid of them and make them pure upgrades again like they used to be. Or get rid of cp as a whole and make it so you can only use 1 per phase.

That's definitely something you brought to the table yourself. GW's made it very clear since the start of 8th that Strats and CP were a major component of 8th and not a sometime thing.

In their first article they made them sound precious:

That Tactical Re-roll can be used to ensure a critical high-damage attack wounds a key enemy unit. But at the same time, your opponent could just as easily use theirs to re-roll that critical armour save. Or maybe you want to keep ahold of them to make sure you make that vital charge next turn?

Not really, it was pointing out that it's a finite tactical resource, not a super rare one use only thing.

Maybe it was just how I perceived it then. Kinda wish at this point though they were just upgrades that cost points like they used to be... nothing worse than facing and opponent who has 30+cp while you have 7. XD

Not really.

At some point there are diminishing returns. you simply don't have anything to DO with so many CPs most of the time.

Depends on the faction.

My SM don't care too much about their CP. My CWE have tons they can do with theirs every round.

Both generate about the same number of CP, too.

Some factions are very CP thirsty. I can easily spend 4-6 a turn with Admech or Custodes... with Marines I can barely see a stratagem that's worth using. Hellfire Shells... and... er...

So far I feel this change has been for the better because it allows all factions to at least TRY their strats out.

As the OP said, the rich get richer... but the law of diminishing returns kicks in.

I am sure that GW look back at some of the early codexes and kick themselves a bit. You can see from the stratagems page of Codex Adeptus Astartes that they were trying to work out how to lay it all out. Their chapter strats aren't all in one place, there are way too many strats that are hyper-specific and stuff... like the one that only applies to a unit of scout bikes falling back out of combat. Great!

Anyway offtopic but yes, OP - the change is great on the whole.

I like the change as well. I've found myself using Protector and Conqueror protocols on Skitarii, which I never would have done before.

I no longer feel like I can't do "cool" stuff because I have to make 100% sure I do the "necessary" stuff. Now? I can do both fairly reliably.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
My army went from averaging 6 CP (three outriders) to 9 (batt+outrider). Immortals giving more CP increased their value, which I believe was the first intention of the change, and it also gives me more toys to play with longer, which is fun.

I agree that this is good to increase the use of Troops.
It is bittersweet for me, though as I have uses Windriders as my core unit since 4th edition. With them being Fast attack now, instead of Troops, I have had to get other Troop units just to have a legal list. Getting more CPs because of this, it at least a great consolation.

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 Galef wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
My army went from averaging 6 CP (three outriders) to 9 (batt+outrider). Immortals giving more CP increased their value, which I believe was the first intention of the change, and it also gives me more toys to play with longer, which is fun.

I agree that this is good to increase the use of Troops.
It is bittersweet for me, though as I have uses Windriders as my core unit since 4th edition. With them being Fast attack now, instead of Troops, I have had to get other Troop units just to have a legal list. Getting more CPs because of this, it at least a great consolation.

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You don't need troops to have a legal list.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
You don't need troops to have a legal list.

Sorry, I meant a legal list that has enough CPs to actually be worth anything. 6 CPs for a 2000pt list is pathetic.
I need at least 1 Battalion to have decent CPs. This change has at least allowed me to have a Battalion + Outrider and get the best of both.

But I still needed to buy more models when 8th dropped as I only had 1 actual Troop choice (as the rest of my "Troops" were Windriders)

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