Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Good point Kanluwen. Maybe I read it wrong, but I took it as the spell once casted moves in a random matter. By that instead of die rolls and having more random die rolls, GW use the players to be random. This way who casted the spell would have it go that way, and the randomness for the next turn can go this way if your opponent would want it to do so.
So my guess is no Wizard is need. Heck I have been wrong lately, so I can be wrong again.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
Do we have a release date yet or is it still sometime in June?
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
Davor wrote: Do we have a release date yet or is it still sometime in June?
So far just sometime in june, and apparently the imperial knights will last 1 or two weeks so nothing will be out the first week of june...which is a shame. Hopefully we get some white dwarf leaks or something soon.
Makes sense. Fiscal year ends about now so they are setting their 2018-2019 to start out with a 40k giant robot army with new models and then right after that with the AoS new boxset and rules. Solid plan for their first fiscal month. I'd expect Pre-Orders for the 16th with the release coming the 23rd.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
auticus wrote: June 9 pre order. June 23 release. Several have said this on twitter that I know to be in with the studio and play with those guys so I trust that.
I can believe this, as I definitely expected a 2 week preorder window. I'd like it sooner, but...
auticus wrote: June 9 pre order. June 23 release. Several have said this on twitter that I know to be in with the studio and play with those guys so I trust that.
Assuming this is correct, then the Nighthaunt battletome will most likely be released on the 30th.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
auticus wrote: June 9 pre order. June 23 release. Several have said this on twitter that I know to be in with the studio and play with those guys so I trust that.
Assuming this is correct, then the Nighthaunt battletome will most likely be released on the 30th.
I dunno. While Nighthaunt (and presumably Stormcast--theirs has gone to Last Chance to Buy) are set to get a new battletome, they could have the book coming with the new edition potentially.
Could be that June 9th is the preorder for the new edition's starter set, rulebook, gaming goodies, etc--and a general release of the free PDF rules.
Next week is the army book and assorted sundries.
I find that unlikely. For the first week, I'm expecting the new rulebook, GHB 2018, the starter box and possibly the endless spells box.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Ghaz wrote: I find that unlikely. For the first week, I'm expecting the new rulebook, GHB 2018, the starter box and possibly the endless spells box.
Don't forget the objectives, command & status dice, and all the other sundry stuff.
That's why I'm saying that week 1 is basically going to be 'filler' stuff and get a 2 week lead time while week 2 can just be the actual releases of the books and a couple units(1:1 stormcast/nighthaunt) each week.
But has GW ever had a release like that? I don't recall there being one, which is why I would find it unlikely.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Davor wrote: Do we have a release date yet or is it still sometime in June?
So far just sometime in june, and apparently the imperial knights will last 1 or two weeks so nothing will be out the first week of june...which is a shame. Hopefully we get some white dwarf leaks or something soon.
Thank you.
auticus wrote:June 9 pre order. June 23 release. Several have said this on twitter that I know to be in with the studio and play with those guys so I trust that.
Also thank you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/31 01:59:41
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
auticus wrote: June 9 pre order. June 23 release. Several have said this on twitter that I know to be in with the studio and play with those guys so I trust that.
Assuming this is correct, then the Nighthaunt battletome will most likely be released on the 30th.
wouldent that be a bitt to soon?
i would say preorder for the new NH starts at the 30th. if the rumor of a new 2 player box for 2nd ed featuring stormcast vs NH is true, then that need to be a few weeks on the marked before they start to sell the new NH stuff.
darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947.
Haven't seen this posted here yet, but they talk summoning mechanics with the games designers.
I like the idea that playing Tzeentch you're gaining points when your enemy casts spells at you then turn those spells into summoned units.
I dunno about as an actual game mechanic, but it sounds fluffy
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
I like the idea that playing Tzeentch you're gaining points when your enemy casts spells at you then turn those spells into summoned units.
I dunno about as an actual game mechanic, but it sounds fluffy
That might be the only thing about AoS that I like, except for (some) of the models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/31 11:31:51
Narrative I think thats pretty cool. Game balance wise... I'm terrified.
Our biggest offender in AOS was a dude that would show up with his tzeentch demon army and triple the size out in two turns with chain summoning. And no thats not exaggeration. It was tripled. Then say that summoning was fine and that is the only way tzeentch demons were "viable" was to be able to triple their size. So I'm triggered
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/31 12:04:49
auticus wrote: Narrative I think thats pretty cool. Game balance wise... I'm terrified.
Our biggest offender in AOS was a dude that would show up with his tzeentch demon army and triple the size out in two turns with chain summoning. And no thats not exaggeration. It was tripled. Then say that summoning was fine and that is the only way tzeentch demons were "viable" was to be able to triple their size. So I'm triggered
It strikes me as something that'll create rock paper scissors match ups. Take a Tzeentch army into something with Nagash or.. I don't know who's another really high tier spellcaster, Moriathi?
Playing against them you could find yourself only gaining more and more of an advantage as they fail to utilize their army effectively, while in a match up against an army without any wizards you might find yourself overwhelmed and unable to get new units onto the table to help.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
What I'm seeing shaping up isn't so much rock paper scissors, because that would mean there are three viable ways to build.
Right now in AOS 1.3, there is really only one viable way to build. You max out on mortal wound output and then you max out on high quality ranged attacks.
If an army shows up to the table doing exponentially more mortal wounds and high quality ranged attacks than their opponent, I've yet to see them lose in three years of doing this game.
This created the mortal wound arms race where we have stormcast players doing 30-54 mortal wounds a turn (yes we have stormcast players here that have lists that on perfect dice do 54 mortal wounds in one turn - and they often win most of their games by turn 2, banking on the double turn is almostt a 100% win ratio for that type of build simply because most people (including me) have no idea how to counter that)
With AOS 2.0, I think that the design team realized that mortal wounds are the corner stone of the git gud builds and so they created build #2 - spamming summoning. Whats the counter to someone doing 30-54 mortal wounds? Replacing your stuff for free.
I don't as of yet see build #3 though. I see eithery ou are going to continue maxing mortal wounds, you are going to max summoning, or you are going to hybridize mortal wound output with summoning.
If you aren't doing any of those things, you are going to get rolled in short order.
I'm hoping that there is a build #3 that I just don't see yet but going off of the podcasts now and the tweet chatter on playtesters (I was admonished for capping summoning because thats their counter to mortal wound output so I can see where they say the balance would be broken) I don't think there is one.
Also thats not really rock paper scissors where build 1 beats build 2, build 2 beats build 3, and build 3 beats build 1.
Instead its Build 1 and Build 2 are supposed to be counters to each other and whoever rolls better will have the edge, but if you show up with Build 3 against eithe Build 1 or Build 2 you will likely lose.
While I'm not a fan of rock/paper/scissors games in general because I've not yet played one where they are balanced right (and one build is always strongest which narrows down what you see on the table, which kills player interest long term), I would be interested if GW could design a viable rock/paper/scissors mechanic in AOS.
I think that you can play the game without a ton of wizards... so long as your units can produce a lot of mortal wounds (especially ranged mortal wounds) without them.
auticus wrote: June 9 pre order. June 23 release. Several have said this on twitter that I know to be in with the studio and play with those guys so I trust that.
Assuming this is correct, then the Nighthaunt battletome will most likely be released on the 30th.
wouldent that be a bitt to soon?
i would say preorder for the new NH starts at the 30th. if the rumor of a new 2 player box for 2nd ed featuring stormcast vs NH is true, then that need to be a few weeks on the marked before they start to sell the new NH stuff.
No, because the Nighthaunt reveal video specifically says June 2018. In order to meet that date, the preoder for the first releases has to be on the 23rd.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Marleymoo wrote: The UK Games Expo is on form the 1st - 3rd June. So hopefully tomorrow we'll hear some news on release dates.
I think GW are sponsoring it this year, so they should have a large presence there.
Yes. Their seminar is Friday at 3-4 pm BST according to the UK Game Expo program PDF. That will put it at 10-11 am EDT for us in the US.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/31 13:30:29
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
auticus wrote: With AOS 2.0, I think that the design team realized that mortal wounds are the corner stone of the git gud builds and so they created build #2 - spamming summoning. Whats the counter to someone doing 30-54 mortal wounds? Replacing your stuff for free.
I don't as of yet see build #3 though. I see eithery ou are going to continue maxing mortal wounds, you are going to max summoning, or you are going to hybridize mortal wound output with summoning.
If you aren't doing any of those things, you are going to get rolled in short order.
Great Bray-Shamans have had Savage Dominion replaced with a powerful new utility spell: Devolve.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
auticus wrote:Narrative I think thats pretty cool. Game balance wise... I'm terrified.
Our biggest offender in AOS was a dude that would show up with his tzeentch demon army and triple the size out in two turns with chain summoning. And no thats not exaggeration. It was tripled. Then say that summoning was fine and that is the only way tzeentch demons were "viable" was to be able to triple their size. So I'm triggered
I believe that speaks more of the player than the game.
auticus wrote:
Spoiler:
What I'm seeing shaping up isn't so much rock paper scissors, because that would mean there are three viable ways to build.
Right now in AOS 1.3, there is really only one viable way to build. You max out on mortal wound output and then you max out on high quality ranged attacks.
If an army shows up to the table doing exponentially more mortal wounds and high quality ranged attacks than their opponent, I've yet to see them lose in three years of doing this game.
This created the mortal wound arms race where we have stormcast players doing 30-54 mortal wounds a turn (yes we have stormcast players here that have lists that on perfect dice do 54 mortal wounds in one turn - and they often win most of their games by turn 2, banking on the double turn is almostt a 100% win ratio for that type of build simply because most people (including me) have no idea how to counter that)
With AOS 2.0, I think that the design team realized that mortal wounds are the corner stone of the git gud builds and so they created build #2 - spamming summoning. Whats the counter to someone doing 30-54 mortal wounds? Replacing your stuff for free.
I don't as of yet see build #3 though. I see eithery ou are going to continue maxing mortal wounds, you are going to max summoning, or you are going to hybridize mortal wound output with summoning.
If you aren't doing any of those things, you are going to get rolled in short order.
I'm hoping that there is a build #3 that I just don't see yet but going off of the podcasts now and the tweet chatter on playtesters (I was admonished for capping summoning because thats their counter to mortal wound output so I can see where they say the balance would be broken) I don't think there is one.
Also thats not really rock paper scissors where build 1 beats build 2, build 2 beats build 3, and build 3 beats build 1.
Instead its Build 1 and Build 2 are supposed to be counters to each other and whoever rolls better will have the edge, but if you show up with Build 3 against eithe Build 1 or Build 2 you will likely lose.
While I'm not a fan of rock/paper/scissors games in general because I've not yet played one where they are balanced right (and one build is always strongest which narrows down what you see on the table, which kills player interest long term), I would be interested if GW could design a viable rock/paper/scissors mechanic in AOS.
I think that you can play the game without a ton of wizards... so long as your units can produce a lot of mortal wounds (especially ranged mortal wounds) without them.
Very well said. I think this is how AoS 2.0 will be played. It's a shame GW doesn't have you part of the "testing" team.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/31 17:30:01
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
I was involved in some discussions about playtetsting because of Azyr Comp but ultimately the direction I wanted out of the game is not the direction that gw wants out of the game (i want less listbuilding influence and more gameplay influence) so my contributions wouldn't have been in synch with the desired product's outcome.
I am working on my own system in Unreal Engine though called Primo Victoria. Hopefully one day I can finish it and unveil what a game would look like if I ruled the world.
What is the point of paying points for an endless spell if your opponent can effortlessly use it against you?
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
Have they done any previews for Khorne stuff yet? With Mystic Shield and Arcane Bolt getting nerfed, I don't imagine their stacking +1 save roll "spell" or d6 mortal wound "spell" that can't be unbound will go untouched.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
