Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Marmatag wrote:What is the point of paying points for an endless spell if your opponent can effortlessly use it against you?

It's a random spell. So this way it may go your way so you control it or the randomness is having your opponent use it and it goes against you or travel away from your opponent if it's not in range of you.

I prefer this to the more random die rolling we are doing now. As well it's a mechanic for the loved/hated double turn mechanic. Adds a bit of a spin on that mechanic so you may not want to go first if you just went last.

Davor wrote:

Marmatag wrote:What is the point of paying points for an endless spell if your opponent can effortlessly use it against you?

It's a random spell. So this way it may go your way so you control it or the randomness is having your opponent use it and it goes against you or travel away from your opponent if it's not in range of you.

I prefer this to the more random die rolling we are doing now. As well it's a mechanic for the loved/hated double turn mechanic. Adds a bit of a spin on that mechanic so you may not want to go first if you just went last.

Which might just end up with them being mostly ignored, putting us right back where we started with the problem of the double turn.

I have a feeling that the tournament community will decide which of these rules the rest of us end up using.

Fafnir wrote:

Spoiler:

Davor wrote:

Marmatag wrote:What is the point of paying points for an endless spell if your opponent can effortlessly use it against you?

It's a random spell. So this way it may go your way so you control it or the randomness is having your opponent use it and it goes against you or travel away from your opponent if it's not in range of you.

I prefer this to the more random die rolling we are doing now. As well it's a mechanic for the loved/hated double turn mechanic. Adds a bit of a spin on that mechanic so you may not want to go first if you just went last.

Which might just end up with them being mostly ignored, putting us right back where we started with the problem of the double turn.

If it's ignored then we have no fault to blame ourselves then.

 Fafnir wrote:

Davor wrote:

Marmatag wrote:What is the point of paying points for an endless spell if your opponent can effortlessly use it against you?

It's a random spell. So this way it may go your way so you control it or the randomness is having your opponent use it and it goes against you or travel away from your opponent if it's not in range of you.

I prefer this to the more random die rolling we are doing now. As well it's a mechanic for the loved/hated double turn mechanic. Adds a bit of a spin on that mechanic so you may not want to go first if you just went last.

Which might just end up with them being mostly ignored, putting us right back where we started with the problem of the double turn.

Yes no one is going to use an endless spell that has any chance of being used against you, but that doesn't mean the endless spells won't be used.

Purple Sun will only rarely be cast by armies that don't have some method of increasing it's cast range(Morathi, Umbral Spellportal, Arkhan). Also remember that the casting player gets to move it first, which means that even if the opponent does get to move it first in the next battle round, it will only be able to get as far back as its starting point. Anyone going second who can cast this spell and hit enemies while being out of range of the return move will have a brilliant setup for the next round. Does your opponent take the turn and eat another round of Purple sun to the face or does he give you the double turn just to be able to avoid taking the endless spell damage.

Umbral spellportal will be massive for any army with a large number of casts. Nagash+Arkhan+Arkhan's battalion has access to 15 spells and so many boosts that the risk of someone casting back through it is almost nonexistent.

The prismatic wall thing is amazing for protecting high value units like Slann+Astrolith or Morathi or glass cannon units from first turn missle attacks.

Of all the things we've seen about the new edition the endless spells are easily the best, except for Umbral spellportal. As cool as the idea is, it's going to create issues.

Purple Sun is Shyish and Umbral Spellportal is Ulgu. As far as we can tell right now, you can't double up--but it won't keep you from taking advantage of someone else's.

Is it just me, or does 1/6 chance make purple sun trash against things like skeletons and any other 1 wound model. Not a lot of risk if you're LoN casting this thing

 Skimask Mohawk wrote:
Is it just me, or does 1/6 chance make purple sun trash against things like skeletons and any other 1 wound model. Not a lot of risk if you're LoN casting this thing

You're rolling a dice for every model in the unit. So yeah, it's a 1:6 chance--but a unit of Skeletons might lose a big chunk just because it's going to have more dice having to be rolled.

I'm going to be interested to see if it counts as an 'enemy' model based upon who controls it. Would make the Isharann Ritual that makes things lose "Fly" a hell of a gamechanger when fighting against this thing.

I think predatory spells will be good for frightening opponents off objectives without committing troops.

If they count as enemies, they will deny some summoning, if my understanding is correct?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Purple Sun is Shyish and Umbral Spellportal is Ulgu. As far as we can tell right now, you can't double up--but it won't keep you from taking advantage of someone else's.

There's actually no indication either way whether or not you'll be able to use multiple endless spells all at once. It's highly unlikely the realm selected will be the deciding factor though. The fact that the spells get bonuses for being in their home realms means a 99% chance they'll be usable in other realms.

ERJAK wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Purple Sun is Shyish and Umbral Spellportal is Ulgu. As far as we can tell right now, you can't double up--but it won't keep you from taking advantage of someone else's.

There's actually no indication either way whether or not you'll be able to use multiple endless spells all at once. It's highly unlikely the realm selected will be the deciding factor though. The fact that the spells get bonuses for being in their home realms means a 99% chance they'll be usable in other realms.

I get that, what I was saying is that because you pick a Realm for your army now--you can't necessarily pick Ulgu and Shyish both.

This is GW we're talking about, where restrictions are something they aggressively shy away from.

I wouldn't be surprised if each batallion in your force can hail from a different realm. The stories also back that direction up (ex: stormcast from azyr fighting alongside sylvaneth from ghyran)

auticus wrote:
I have a feeling that the tournament community will decide which of these rules the rest of us end up using.

Because aside from representing a small part of the game's community, tournament players somehow control casual players so heavily that they lack any personal agency or ability to decide for themselves?

auticus wrote:
This is GW we're talking about, where restrictions are something they aggressively shy away from.

I wouldn't be surprised if each batallion in your force can hail from a different realm. The stories also back that direction up (ex: stormcast from azyr fighting alongside sylvaneth from ghyran)

Azyr isn't one of the Realms we can pick to hail from, going off the Relic lists.

I don't think there are any restrictions on picking the endless spells. The fella on the storm-pod-cast thing said they are useful for filling up your army if you have 20-40 points left.

Also, if they are being sold in a box set, half the box would be invalid for some players if there was restrictions.

In The beasts preview, whoever they're 'interviewing' mentions a plan to take five shaman and casting all the offensive endless spells at once.

Today's realm article mentions that the endless spells have benefits when cast in their own realm, which seems to be how they're handling it.

I don't think the point is worth arguing until we know for sure how those spells are chosen. It may be tied to your army's realm affinity (which would be my guess), or it may just be an upgrade you add to your army the same way you would a unit (how the Balewind Vortex works right now).

Battling in the Realms from Warhammer Community

The choice of which realm you decide to set your battle in is up to you – the realm you fight in might depend on the story you want to tell, while for structured events, you could have every single game take place in the same Mortal Realm, journey through several, or roll a dice to decide. Likewise, if you don’t fancy using a Mortal Realm, you don’t have to – but you’ll be missing out on some really fun stuff if you do.

 EnTyme wrote:
I don't think the point is worth arguing until we know for sure how those spells are chosen. It may be tied to your army's realm affinity (which would be my guess), or it may just be an upgrade you add to your army the same way you would a unit (how the Balewind Vortex works right now).

Eh? Since they have point values it seems clear its an upgrade to the army.
The other realm spells are simply all available to every wizard fighting in that realm.

I like the realm spells idea. I've been using that in my campaigns since the first ones came out in the realmgate wars. Yeah using time of wars has also gotten me screamed at in a store (twice) but overall the narrative guys enjoyed it a lot to be worth getting screamed at.

Also means stuff like Banishment should only happen if you're in Hyish so the uhauls carrying the entire stormcast population from azyr to hyish likely won't be happening.

I don't want to hear about how Combat armies are going to be gimped in the new edition.

Faction Focus: Beastclaw Raiders on Warhammer Community.

If you’re looking to use the endless spells in your army, you’ll want to make sure you pick up a Firebelly. As well as having seen a points reduction, this guy is great for healing your units with an Emerald Lifeswarm, and if you want to do some damage, there are loads of options – although for pure style, you can’t beat flinging a cloud of Quicksilver Swords at the foe:

Well, that's a thing. "Magic swords!"

 Kanluwen wrote:

I don't want to hear about how Combat armies are going to be gimped in the new edition.

I like it!

And I was already going for a Ghur theme, how about that.

Well, guess the Realm article confirms that spells are tied to the realm you're playing on and not your army's realm of origin. Note that the WHC FB page has confirmed that Endless Spells are buffed by that realm you are playing on, but can be cast on any realm. It also does seem like Endless Spells are purchased just like units, so my guess was wrong there. I like that better, though.

ERJAK wrote:

Umbral spellportal will be massive for any army with a large number of casts. Nagash+Arkhan+Arkhan's battalion has access to 15 spells and so many boosts that the risk of someone casting back through it is almost nonexistent.

The prismatic wall thing is amazing for protecting high value units like Slann+Astrolith or Morathi or glass cannon units from first turn missle attacks.

Of all the things we've seen about the new edition the endless spells are easily the best, except for Umbral spellportal. As cool as the idea is, it's going to create issues.

Umbral Spell Portal + Amaranthine Orb.... mmmmmmmmmmm


Edit: Also, regarding the Beastclaw Raiders article... I'm vaguely horrified. We've already got one of "those" guys locally who brings him Thundertusk spam to "casual" games, claiming they're all he owns (they aren't...). Him getting to bring more of those absurd things thanks to a big points reduction feels ridiculous.

They have definitely widened the gulf between power gaming and casual gaming.

Thundertusk spam getting cheaper though means he will have comparable mortal wound output to stormcast builds, which is likely the dev's desired goal. From a balance standpoint, this is balanced... if you are in a powergamer environment. Stormcast could do many more mortal wounds than BCR, which is why they died off.

From a casual standpoint.... this definitely makes me need to finish my power rating utility so that I can gauge actual power not by points, but by your mathematical outputs to weigh opponents for who they need matched up against.

Feeding casual lists to the power guys feels to me to be like handing over baby seals for clubbing.

 EnTyme wrote:
Well, guess the Realm article confirms that spells are tied to the realm you're playing on and not your army's realm of origin. Not that the WHC FB page has confirmed that Endless Spells are buffed by that realm you are playing on, but can be cast on any realm. It also does seem like Endless Spells are purchased just like units, so my guess was wrong there. I like that better, though.

Really all the the Realm article just confirmed was the existence of full lores associated with each Realm. We knew that Endless Spells are buffed from the realm that they're from(the warscrolls for the Purple Sun and Umbral Spellportal confirmed that) but the rest of it is still a bit unclear.

I'm hoping there will be narrative events where the realms will be used. I don't care if it's not balanced if it makes the game have some flavor; narrative and fun games don't place the same level of emphasis on winning and losing.

AoS seems like it doesn't suffer from the blandness that 40k does, if you actually use the robust ruleset. Tournament AoS feels like a joke to me. There are very clear paths to victory here, and it becomes an exercise in flipping a coin.

Yeah but people often still demand tournament style. My biggest hurdle if i want to continue campaigns is matching people up now.

Our powergamers are ready to melt opposing lists down and im not sure what this is going to do to interest.