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I noticed that units now have to pile in if they are in position. Was there ever a situation where you wouldn't want to attack if you have a unit within 3" of an enemy, though? Even if your unit is weak in melee and going up against a melee juggernaut, wouldn't it be better to try to do some token damage than to let your opponent pile in and wipe out your unit?

 EnTyme wrote:
I noticed that units now have to pile in if they are in position. Was there ever a situation where you wouldn't want to attack if you have a unit within 3" of an enemy, though? Even if your unit is weak in melee and going up against a melee juggernaut, wouldn't it be better to try to do some token damage than to let your opponent pile in and wipe out your unit?

Yes, some units deal damage when attacked. And if it would be your turn next, it was sometimes safer to shoot them.

Yes.

Wrathmongers - you don't want to hit them because if you kill them theymake you attack your own unit. Particularly lethal if you have a nasty unit like ogors that do 3-4 damage per hit attacking themselves.

Horrors - you don't want to hit them because then they split and can contest objectives better.

Some units deal damage (often mortal wounds) or attack again if you kill them.

I'm glad for this change of rules because it is yet another nonsensical garbage immersion breaking scenario now thrown out the window and things make more sense.

From the Faction Focus: Bonesplitterz on Warhammer Community:

Unlike other predatory endless spells, the Aethervoid Pendulum moves constantly in a straight line, cleaving across the battlefield – making it less risky to your forces. Should it make contact with a unit, it’ll deal a decent chunk of mortal wounds to them, too.

Hanskrampf wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
I noticed that units now have to pile in if they are in position. Was there ever a situation where you wouldn't want to attack if you have a unit within 3" of an enemy, though? Even if your unit is weak in melee and going up against a melee juggernaut, wouldn't it be better to try to do some token damage than to let your opponent pile in and wipe out your unit?

Yes, some units deal damage when attacked. And if it would be your turn next, it was sometimes safer to shoot them.

auticus wrote:Yes.

Wrathmongers - you don't want to hit them because if you kill them theymake you attack your own unit. Particularly lethal if you have a nasty unit like ogors that do 3-4 damage per hit attacking themselves.

Horrors - you don't want to hit them because then they split and can contest objectives better.

Some units deal damage (often mortal wounds) or attack again if you kill them.

I'm glad for this change of rules because it is yet another nonsensical garbage immersion breaking scenario now thrown out the window and things make more sense.

Okay. I figured there had to be something out there. I agree, auticus. This is a good (if minor) change for immersion.

Endless Spells really are quite interesting. I'm loving them.

They are something that I think I'll like a lot as well.

The Pendulum is going to be an interesting method of area denial.

 Ghaz wrote:
From the Faction Focus: Bonesplitterz on Warhammer Community:

Unlike other predatory endless spells, the Aethervoid Pendulum moves constantly in a straight line, cleaving across the battlefield – making it less risky to your forces. Should it make contact with a unit, it’ll deal a decent chunk of mortal wounds to them, too.

So what happens if it runs into a pit?

auticus wrote:
Been using base to base since day 1, as have I assume most of you all.

So thats cool. But like clockwork a couple hours after this came out I get messaged.

"Now that base to base is official, if you let people play at the store using squares or older smaller bases and not make people rebase, you are allowing cheating."

Even though GW also writes:

Which bases should I use? Whichever ones you want! If you’ve got a collection that’s beautifully based, you can put away the clippers – there’s no enforced, single standard for how you should base your models. However, on release, you’ll be able to download a chart of recommended base sizes for every miniature in the Mortal Realms – if you’re a tournament organiser who wants to ensure a consistent standard for your event, feel free to use this, while if you’re making the jump to putting an older collection on round bases, this should help you out a lot.

I would link the person to that exact quote, then tell them politely to go themselves.

I would link the person to that exact quote, then tell them politely to go themselves.

I did link that quote. They responded back with some crappy snide remarks about house ruled BS.

I created a fall event that I'm going to try to hit BOLS up with once a week ... a narrative Firestorm blog. Only the narrative guys are going to be a part of it. Both the private and public event though are not enforcing bases so long as you are using bases your model came with.

auticus wrote:

I would link the person to that exact quote, then tell them politely to go themselves.

I did link that quote. They responded back with some crappy snide remarks about house ruled BS.

I created a fall event that I'm going to try to hit BOLS up with once a week ... a narrative Firestorm blog. Only the narrative guys are going to be a part of it. Both the private and public event though are not enforcing bases so long as you are using bases your model came with.

If this guy is still claiming it's a houserule after you showed him that GW literally said there is no standard, I would reiterate that he could fornicate himself with an iron rod.

Well its nice GW isn't forcing base changes cuz I am not rebasing any of my 5 armies. Especially since I generally play for fun and not competitively.

"Whatever base you want," you know someone has a titan base on 1 grot now.

 EnTyme wrote:

auticus wrote:

I would link the person to that exact quote, then tell them politely to go themselves.

I did link that quote. They responded back with some crappy snide remarks about house ruled BS.

I created a fall event that I'm going to try to hit BOLS up with once a week ... a narrative Firestorm blog. Only the narrative guys are going to be a part of it. Both the private and public event though are not enforcing bases so long as you are using bases your model came with.

If this guy is still claiming it's a houserule after you showed him that GW literally said there is no standard, I would reiterate that he could fornicate himself with an iron rod.

The "houserule BS" comes from "if its not a tournament rule, then its a houserule". It is a mindset that has always frustrated me greatly.

See my previous reply. This isn't the kind of person I'd ever play against, and if he wants to participate in a public event I was running, I'd remind him that I was the event organizer of said event and he is welcome to not participate.

I'd bust out my tourney list and see how much he likes a dose of his own medicine. Once again I have to say it's really nice to have one of those around

 EnTyme wrote:
I noticed that units now have to pile in if they are in position. Was there ever a situation where you wouldn't want to attack if you have a unit within 3" of an enemy, though? Even if your unit is weak in melee and going up against a melee juggernaut, wouldn't it be better to try to do some token damage than to let your opponent pile in and wipe out your unit?

I run a plaguetouched warband. at Adepticon this year... I had a unit of 35 nurgle marauders which proc'ed the battalions ability because it was set-up in a multiple of 7. So any wound roll of 6 made against it (by the enemy) in melee kickbacked a mortal wound. I added a plague priest to my army (not in the batallion but doent matter) which has a prayer that adds +1 to the wound rolls made AGAINST A UNIT WITHIN 13". So i would use the vague wording of that ability to cast that on my own unit of maruaders.. therefore giving the nemy +1 to wound against my own unit but which triggered mortal wound kickback on 5s now.

I ran them straight at my opponents infantry, along with 14 chaos warriors who also kick back mortal wounds and he refused to attack me for several rounds of combat. I was ok with this.

The whole basing thing has had me in stitches!

Tournament/WAAC players have spent the last three years complaining that many of the things that narrative/fun players do are against the rules- taking models as count as, using cool and slightly unusual basing, using things that no longer 'existed'. One chap was even giving out to a member of staff on their official facebook page for basing his models 'wrong'.

And yet nearly every single one of them change the measure from the model rules to suit themselves, and spent the past year telling everyone that would listen that 'everyone plays base measuring anyway'. (as if they speak for everyone!)

Seeing this change has annoyed me a bit- not because the rule makes too much of a difference but it does show that GW is willing to change things for whoever is being the loudest, most obnoxious on facebook posts, even after spending all this time trying to convince people that its ok to play by house rules or do what you find fun as long everyone agrees.

With the new base to base measuring and with GW wording the new base rules to include tournaments can vary the base rules to suit their own needs, I feel that the most obnoxious part of the community are going to use that throw in everyone's face, at every opportunity they get!

I like that GW responds to the community but it feels a little like they are bowing to the noise, rather than making changes that have been asked for.

Well not measuring from the base is just pure stupidity.
oh look, my model gets an extra 2" range cuz its wings are 2" outside the base......


But i dont agree on the loose basing style.
It realy aint that hard to make clear round wrap around bases for the models that still uses square bases but dont want or can swap to round bases for a company sutch as GW.

I've now lived through five or so basing changes in the course of my time with GW.

I'm primarily a hobbyist.

When I finish a model, to include its base, I'm not messing with the base again in the future because GW decides its now going to be on a base that is 7mm bigger.

The loose basing style is largely because there are a large chunk of us that are not hyper-concerned about 7mm smaller bases.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Well not measuring from the base is just pure stupidity.
oh look, my model gets an extra 2" range cuz its wings are 2" outside the base......


But i dont agree on the loose basing style.
It realy aint that hard to make clear round wrap around bases for the models that still uses square bases but dont want or can swap to round bases for a company sutch as GW.

It's only stupidity if you are playing against the spirit of the rules or against the spirit of fun.
Oh look, my model gets and extra 2" range cuz I've used a titan base, with overhanging cork, to base one moonclan grot.

See, basing can be just as easily abused, and yes I exaggerated a bit a titan base is beyond silly, but the point stands, just as easy to abuse any rule if you play against the spirit of the rules.


I've never seen the need for anyone to need to rebase or need base extenders. It doesn't take much brain power to 'see' where a round base would be in place of the square the model is one. If you can't imagine a circle around a square then maybe there is more at issue here than basing. Loose basing is there to keep more people in the hobby. I'd rather see everyone encouraged to play AoS, rather than see more and more people driven out the hobby altogether. Forcing people to do rebasing to a 30 year old army is not the way to keep a player and not going to help encourage older players to carry on buying into new AoS stuff.

I've had the same exact problem with the Kings of war crowd- telling me that using a 40mm circle base is against the rules as it needs to be a 40mm square- like you can't 'see' where the corners or the edges were. And this wasn't at some big strict tournament or playing with a stranger in a pug. This was in a private game, with my two of my own forces, against my other half and I had people giving out over the game to the point I was told I'd be removed from hobby if the rules police had their way (this was an official mantic site as well)

I'd hate to see this ridiculous mindset become precedent in the AoS hobby. Not everyone plays official obey all rules tournament WAAC style and not everyone plays fun, friendly no rules narrative games, but things like this are pushing the two sides apart even further which is widening the gap between players. A lot more give and take needs to be had, so both sides can continue playing but it does seem like GW is favouring the tournament side more and more

They are, because the guys playtesting their rules, coming up with their points, and giving them the most direct feedback (that being, face to face in the pub not a faceless email) are the UK Grand Tournament guys and their club(s).

But I will also be fair and say that GW did try the pure narrative route, and it apparently failed big-time with no one wanting to buy anything. The tournament energy has always been a big seller. At least over in north america. No tournament scene for a game in north america means no one really plays or buys it at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And now the sirens are going off around the net because people are upset that the game has gotten bigger than 4 pages of rules.

smh.

I just want to know if the core rules are in any way necessary or if you can still just use the 4 page blurb (or equivalent) and generals handbook.

Does explain why there's no rules included in my daughters of khaine book compared to ironjawz though

Was also under the impression endless spells were fully implemented in the core rules, but they mention it as an expansion? Would save me some money

Endless spells warscrolls etc come in the new magic box from what I read.

auticus wrote:
Endless spells warscrolls etc come in the new magic box from what I read.

Yes, as confirmed by the Soul Wars Announced article on Warhammer Community.

Core book, GH 2018, and Sorcery box. My wallet is going to hurt. Oh and some scenery dice because magical terrain Is awesome and Id love to play with it more

I got a bunch of terrain markers from amazon already so fortunately I only need the new books.

Well wallet, looks like you’re in for good pounding.

What I meant was if endless spells were a core part of the rules, or an optional expansion