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JimmyWolf87 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
That doesn't sound quite right. Afaik they dropped the dungeon crawler that was like 10 years old at that point, they're going strong on the army scale Legion they inherited, and added one arena battler.

Imperial Assault (the dungeon crawler type thing) wasn't, to my knowledge, getting any active updates by FFG even prior to the reshuffle at Asmodee. It's never been under AMG's purview.

Yeah, that's on FFG when they did something similar but it does contribute to the perception (whether true or not) that creating a minimally different but legally distinct and effectively visually and mechanically incompatible is both what is happening and ok. Someone casually looking at the lineup of the games (whether in person or online) will justifiably get that impression and shouldn't be expected to do a deep dive into the multicompany history of the various interconnected product lines. I'm not saying it's right or correct but rather that it happens regardless.

 warboss wrote:

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
That doesn't sound quite right. Afaik they dropped the dungeon crawler that was like 10 years old at that point, they're going strong on the army scale Legion they inherited, and added one arena battler.

Imperial Assault (the dungeon crawler type thing) wasn't, to my knowledge, getting any active updates by FFG even prior to the reshuffle at Asmodee. It's never been under AMG's purview.

Yeah, that's on FFG when they did something similar but it does contribute to the perception (whether true or not) that creating a minimally different but legally distinct and effectively visually and mechanically incompatible is both what is happening and ok. Someone casually looking at the lineup of the games (whether in person or online) will justifiably get that impression and shouldn't be expected to do a deep dive into the multicompany history of the various interconnected product lines. I'm not saying it's right or correct but rather that it happens regardless.

Oh absolutely, I wasn't trying to suggest that anyone commenting should have prior knowledge; just offering context.

Imperial Assault was a board game with a competitive component to try and sidestep around paying Hasbro for the Star Wars board game license. It wasn't ever a good miniatures game and wasn't ever intended to be. FFG more or less completed the board game expansion cycles on it and switched over to Legion as the actual miniatures game.

Most of the hate comes from how they exploited fans with a lot of the important models coming as tokens in the base game and sold separately as part of the competitive mode which in no way was going to cut it as a legitimate miniatures game. Squads were 3 copies of the same sculpt and the whole line was honestly pretty mediocre even for board game PVC. I actually tried at one point to use my Imperial Assault stuff in Legion and its immediately apparent how ill-suited those models would be to run a wargame, even one with as mediocre models as Legion had to begin with.

AMG is where games go to die is just not true. Armada fans have the most reasons to be salty, as for X-Wing, it was on borrowed time after 2nd edition. The update had some good ideas but the investment in upgrading your paraphernalia was a bridge too far for some. (Osprey’s Voidfighter might give the minis new life). But the Legion revamp (with the promised OP), Shatterpoint and MCP show they’re not a dumping ground for unwanted games. FFG can do that for themselves.

This. Mark mentioned one big reason X-Wing dropped: players did not want to shell out lots of money for an upgrade kit and a starter with rulebook, especially those outside Resistance and New Order.

I don't know how they handled MCP 2nd edition, but the fact that they're offering upgrade kits and free pdfs proves they're not dropping Legion anytime soon.

 parakuribo wrote:
This. Mark mentioned one big reason X-Wing dropped: players did not want to shell out lots of money for an upgrade kit and a starter with rulebook, especially those outside Resistance and New Order.

I don't know how they handled MCP 2nd edition, but the fact that they're offering upgrade kits and free pdfs proves they're not dropping Legion anytime soon.

There isn't a MCP 2nd Edition. They just doing rolling errata, balance passes etc... Ironically it could use a new edition. I firmly believe cutting out the horrific tactics-card bloat layer could make for a perfect game. As it is, we're like 600 cards in, and 90% are a waste of time.

Just dropping by to accept I was probably wrong in my previous post

Props to those who addressed it and for doing so politely

There's never been a 2nd edition of MCP. Just the occasional character and scenario update that they release as print and play.

The 1-2 punch that KO'd X-Wing's upgrade kits were mostly sins of first edition. They demanded that every player buy every ship from every faction, so when it came time to upgrade your whole collection in one go, it was instantly prohibitively expensive.

Even that they might have survived, but they waited so long to go to 2nd edition that they didn't have a bit of new product to sell other than upgrade kits. Rebels didn't receive a single 2.0 exclusive ship and Empire got one years later. No new toys for anyone unless you wanted to start a new prequel era army to entice them to pay for the upgrade.

Partially its a matter of timing. The prequels hadn't hit the nostalgia bubble so people weren't too keen on their inclusion and FFG was clearly banking on the sequels being more toyetic in terms of new ships. Still, it comes down to X-Wing just not really being designed to be supported as long as it was, and its runaway success got milked dry before a real framework for something more sustainable could be built.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 parakuribo wrote:
This. Mark mentioned one big reason X-Wing dropped: players did not want to shell out lots of money for an upgrade kit and a starter with rulebook, especially those outside Resistance and New Order.

I don't know how they handled MCP 2nd edition, but the fact that they're offering upgrade kits and free pdfs proves they're not dropping Legion anytime soon.

There isn't a MCP 2nd Edition. They just doing rolling errata, balance passes etc... Ironically it could use a new edition. I firmly believe cutting out the horrific tactics-card bloat layer could make for a perfect game. As it is, we're like 600 cards in, and 90% are a waste of time.

They culled the vast majority of cards already. Almost everything that isn't tied to a specific character or affiliation has been cut and I think they overall work a lot better now as part of your faction identity.

I find no fault with your reasoning. The only thing I'd add is that, at least locally for me, we had been playing x-wing enthusiastically for years so there was a little bit of natural fatigue at that point and we were petering off a bit in terms of attendance. Introducing a new edition with mandatory paid upgrade kits (instead of an option for free downloads) created a jumping off point in the x-wing hobby instead of invigorating the fanbase here.

 warboss wrote:
I find no fault with your reasoning. The only thing I'd add is that, at least locally for me, we had been playing x-wing enthusiastically for years so there was a little bit of natural fatigue at that point and we were petering off a bit in terms of attendance. Introducing a new edition with mandatory paid upgrade kits (instead of an option for free downloads) created a jumping off point in the x-wing hobby instead of invigorating the fanbase here.

Yeah, it definitely suffered in a lot of the same ways Warmachine did in that regard. Both kept pushing players on the tournament treadmill and a lot of them didn't want to get back on as soon as they got a break.

 LunarSol wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 parakuribo wrote:
This. Mark mentioned one big reason X-Wing dropped: players did not want to shell out lots of money for an upgrade kit and a starter with rulebook, especially those outside Resistance and New Order.

I don't know how they handled MCP 2nd edition, but the fact that they're offering upgrade kits and free pdfs proves they're not dropping Legion anytime soon.

There isn't a MCP 2nd Edition. They just doing rolling errata, balance passes etc... Ironically it could use a new edition. I firmly believe cutting out the horrific tactics-card bloat layer could make for a perfect game. As it is, we're like 600 cards in, and 90% are a waste of time.

They culled the vast majority of cards already. Almost everything that isn't tied to a specific character or affiliation has been cut and I think they overall work a lot better now as part of your faction identity.

Woah woah! I somehow missed that! Where can I read up on it, as all I have ever seen is short banned/restricted lists!

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Woah woah! I somehow missed that! Where can I read up on it, as all I have ever seen is short banned/restricted lists!

It's a little messy. Basically they originally planned to do set rotations with little symbols on the cards that rotated out. Unfortunately that included a bunch of cards that just shouldn't rotate, so they reprinted a huge stack of them with newer symbols to delay the problem, but the sets never really lined up with the order of actual model releases so the whole system just didn't work.

Instead we have this ugly compromise. The tournament document just lists every card that is legal (about 300 currently). You can find it at the end of this PDF:

https://cdn.svc.asmodee.net/production-amgcom/uploads/2025/06/OP_CrisisProtocol_Challenger_061325.pdf

It mostly exists for catch up purposes and for new players. The few times since the big purge they've actually removed things there's been big announcements for them, but if you're not following its not worth trying to go back and find the list. Another good option is MCPDB.com. If you sort by "Standard" there, everything that's been removed will either appear at the top as "Banned" or at the bottom under "Rotated".

 LunarSol wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Woah woah! I somehow missed that! Where can I read up on it, as all I have ever seen is short banned/restricted lists!

It's a little messy. Basically they originally planned to do set rotations with little symbols on the cards that rotated out. Unfortunately that included a bunch of cards that just shouldn't rotate, so they reprinted a huge stack of them with newer symbols to delay the problem, but the sets never really lined up with the order of actual model releases so the whole system just didn't work.

Instead we have this ugly compromise. The tournament document just lists every card that is legal (about 300 currently). You can find it at the end of this PDF:

https://cdn.svc.asmodee.net/production-amgcom/uploads/2025/06/OP_CrisisProtocol_Challenger_061325.pdf

It mostly exists for catch up purposes and for new players. The few times since the big purge they've actually removed things there's been big announcements for them, but if you're not following its not worth trying to go back and find the list. Another good option is MCPDB.com. If you sort by "Standard" there, everything that's been removed will either appear at the top as "Banned" or at the bottom under "Rotated".

Bizarre, but the answer is so appreciated. Card bloat was actively making me want to avoid the game. This, somewhat, helps.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Bizarre, but the answer is so appreciated. Card bloat was actively making me want to avoid the game. This, somewhat, helps.

It actually helps way more than it appears. There are still a lot of cards, but almost all of them are restricted to a specific character or affiliation. There's only a handful of cards left that work on anyone and they're mostly from the core set. The need to buy characters for cards is almost completely gone, which was my big gripe (though even big tournaments didn't seem to care if you had the card or not in my experience. Fun alt art proxies run rampant)

When it comes to actually picking your cards its a lot less bloated than it used to be. You generally just have around 20 to pick your 10 from once you've locked into an affiliation and characters. The actual 10 tends to be 2-3 affiliation specific cards, 3-4 character specific cards, 1-2 restricted cards and probably a couple more from the generic list. I don't really list build and just carry around a stack of cards about the size of a Magic deck for the dozen or so affiliations I rotate between.

I didn't back Degeneris Clan Wars. Anyone know more?
https://gamefound.com/en/projects/cmon/degenesis-clan-wars/updates/43

So, before backing a KS, research the partners in the project. Ugh.

I guess we wait to see what SMV says and then have to read between the lines

It wouldn't surprise me if SMV were also meant to be due money from a retail release that then got cancelled due to CMONs new reality? hence lawyers, contract fine prints etc

i really hope backers can get a full refund as this bit

REFUNDS
To be very clear, the responsibility for the delivery of this project lies with CMON and SMV. Each of you backed us in good faith, and you deserve to be compensated whole. We will honor that agreement and provide 100% refunds for the remaining backers for the project.

Pending final legal resolution, we will reach out to you with instructions to initiate the refund process accordingly. We are currently coordinating with the legal teams involved to ensure everything proceeds smoothly and without missteps.

makes it seem there are a whole bunch of complexities still in play