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w1zard wrote: Disclaimer: I haven't watched the video,
They shouldn't be banning him for life unless they are absolutely 1,000% fething positive he was intentionally cheating.
You should watch the video.
They are a private entity and may refuse service for any reason, including the mere suspicion of cheating.
Let’s put the proverbial shoe on the other foot John... what would you do if you were banned for life and publically ridiculed solely on the grounds of suspicion?
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
1) A private institution may ban someone for whatever reason they want, up to and including "we don't like him". They're not a public service, etc. So, they are well within their rights to do whatever they want - good on them.
2) To make it a public thing is tactless. This kind of information needs to go to the banned player and that's it. If he wants to scream and shout all over the internet that's fine. The guys running the tournament should have had a simple statement prepared like any other public announcement, something simple and vague when asked about it.
If the tournament doesn’t make the video, etc public and publicly defend their position then we end up with the player in question throwing out excuses and trying to humiliate the tournament. And if the goal is community development, then letting other tournaments (and players) know about a verified cheater is a smart thing to do.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
w1zard wrote: Disclaimer: I haven't watched the video,
They shouldn't be banning him for life unless they are absolutely 1,000% fething positive he was intentionally cheating.
You should watch the video.
They are a private entity and may refuse service for any reason, including the mere suspicion of cheating.
Let’s put the proverbial shoe on the other foot John... what would you do if you were banned for life and publically ridiculed solely on the grounds of suspicion?
If I were a filthy of a cheater as that guy, I'd man up and accept it as long overdue, and I'd donate my armies and stuff to the community as penance.
w1zard wrote: Disclaimer: I haven't watched the video, so I don't know if this dude actually cheated or not, but that is neither here nor there. They shouldn't be banning him for life unless they are absolutely 1,000% fething positive he was intentionally cheating. Even a 1% chance of giving a lifetime ban to a player for genuine mistakes is bad for the community, as we can see in this thread. A much better response would have been to DQ him and dock all of his points. That way if he was intentionally cheating, he doesn't benefit from it, while at the same time sending a message to the other players that loose play is not going to get you anywhere. Being hung over from staying up late and drinking the night before is stupid and warrants a DQ, but not a lifetime ban IMO.
But I wanted to say this:
jeffersonian000 wrote: Public shaming does not act as a deterrent, the people that get away with whatever they get away with have a habit of always trying the get away with it regardless of consequences because it’s a habit they find beneficial. That’s why prisons and executions have never been a deterrent towards crime. The people that shaming works on already have habits that avoid potential shaming, just like most people avoid criminal activity because they don’t want to get caught.
Is right on the money. As someone who has done academic research into criminal justice, overly harsh punishments do absolutely nothing at all to deter crime.
Example: A government wants to stop people from speeding on a highway. Hundreds of thousands of people use this highway every day and they don't have the officers to properly patrol it, so they decide to catch one speeder per day and publicly execute them to make an "example" of them. Would the knowledge that there is a .001% chance of being caught and executed stop people from speeding? Absolutely not, because the chances of being caught are so low that people can brush it off and say "I'm not going to get caught, those people who did were just really unlucky". The chances of getting in an accident from speeding and dying from THAT are higher than that anyway.
No what really gets people to stop breaking the rules is CATCHING them, ALL of them, and giving them a moderate punishment. This is backed up by large amounts of criminal justice research. Would you really attempt to break the rules if you knew you had a 95% chance of being caught doing it?
Dishing out harsh punishments to the people who you manage to catch only makes the community "feel better" without actually doing anything constructive, and makes it impossible for said offender to redeem themselves or reform.
I guarantee you that there was a lot more "cheating" going on at this event then Mr. Harrison's little shenanigans. Why is it fair that they all get away with it and he is punished collectively for all of their sins? The only difference between him and them is that he was supposedly "caught" and they weren't.
Yes it would make them stop breaking the law, totally, and I can prove it tomorrow if you want. Because the human mind has been scientifically proved to be ill suited to handle this kind of situation (low probability and high risk). I read something about it just yesterday
They start handing out more bans (especially for slow play) and you'll see the competitive scene clean itself up quickly. Stay dq'ing people and they forfeit their entry and all the money wasted coming and they will stop being toolbags.
Let a billion souls burn in death than for one soul to bend knee to a false Emperor.....
"I am the punishment of God, had you not committed great sin, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you"
People arguing that they can do it is so so so dumb. Yeah, everyone knows they have full control over what they want to do with their own tournament.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.
We can quite easily make a distinction between what they are "allowed" to do, and which decisions they've made that we agree with.
I will never attend an event by these guys. Getting called out publicly as a cheater for an irrelevant mini bump to model with a glass, and for misremembering a die at the end of a long day, is not worth the drama for me. These TO's should feel ashamed, honestly.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
SHUPPET wrote: I will never attend an event by these guys. Getting called out publicly as a cheater for an irrelevant mini bump to model with a glass, and for misremembering a die at the end of a long day, is not worth the drama for me. These TO's should feel ashamed, honestly.
SHUPPET wrote: I will never attend an event by these guys. Getting called out publicly as a cheater for an irrelevant mini bump to model with a glass, and for misremembering a die at the end of a long day, is not worth the drama for me. These TO's should feel ashamed, honestly.
Blatant Cheating. Obvious by watching the video.
watched the video. Both the stream, and then the cheating recap. Strongly disagree. Tau player's explanations make perfect sense, and at best we are left with suspicion of doubt here, nothing concrete, which is a poor justification for the action they took. I don't even share that doubt - this guy was not cheating. But the best you have, is suspicion that his actions were intentional and not accidental.
Pretending you have firm proof is just disingenuous. Stop treating this like a blood sport and hoping to see someone's rep in this game ruined for them. This is a very involved hobby, and to do something like this to someone with little care of the impact, you better be damn sure, which you were not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 02:23:42
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
SHUPPET wrote: Pretending you have firm proof is just disingenuous. Stop treating this like a blood sport and hoping to see someone's rep in this game ruined for them. This is a very involved hobby, and to do something like this to someone with little care of the impact, you better be damn sure, which you were not.
Sorry, are we watching the same video and reading the same TO's assessment? I'm 100% certain he was cheating.
I don't care if he can't play again. I have zero sympathy for a player who cheats. Now one's executing him in public square, taking his money, ore removing his models.
Stop pretending it was a happy little accident. It's a game, and people who cheat should be exposed.
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greyknight12 wrote: If the tournament doesn’t make the video, etc public and publicly defend their position then we end up with the player in question throwing out excuses and trying to humiliate the tournament. And if the goal is community development, then letting other tournaments (and players) know about a verified cheater is a smart thing to do.
That. And that stuff is exactly why the Jeremy Hamblin thing went so far. Apparently, without gathering evidence and making certain things public- it can quickly devolve into a 'he-said, she-said' and then divide the community.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/24 02:39:04
w1zard wrote: Again, if tournaments start issuing lifetime bans to people they merely suspect of cheating, the 40k "professional" scene isn't going to be taken very seriously. It's too easy to bump a model, fudge a range measurement, forget a rule, or make a list mistake and then boom you're gone for good. Nobody will play, I know I wouldnt.
If that video evidence alone isn't enough to convince you, then please don't ever get on a jury. We'll have killers back on the streets.
w1zard wrote: If you are concerned that they cheated but can't prove it 100% just DQ them and be done with it. No need to ban them for life over something that might have been an honest mistake.
'Polite warnings' didn't work. Disqualifications didn't work. He got banned from ONE tournament scene. Not all of them. And he shouldn't have made it this for.
The evidence is there. WATCH IT.
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w1zard wrote: And if you weren't a cheater and you did just genuinely make a few mistakes during play that simply looked like cheating under the right lens?
If I weren't a cheater I wouldn't have the video evidence proving I was cheating. Or the track record.
And if I wasn't, and was being accused of it during the game? After the first warning I'd say, "Fine, you're accusing me of cheating so I forfeit" and I would move on with my gaming.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 02:42:29
SHUPPET wrote: Pretending you have firm proof is just disingenuous. Stop treating this like a blood sport and hoping to see someone's rep in this game ruined for them. This is a very involved hobby, and to do something like this to someone with little care of the impact, you better be damn sure, which you were not.
Sorry, are we watching the same video and reading the same TO's assessment? I'm 100% certain he was cheating.
I don't care if he can't play again. I have zero sympathy for a player who cheats. Now one's executing him in public square, taking his money, ore removing his models.
Stop pretending it was a happy little accident. It's a game, and people who cheat should be exposed.
The only one who's pretending they know something they don't here, is you. Of course you don't care or have any sympathy, it doesn't affect you, so why would you, right? You've gotten to take the moral highground and act self righteous about something, and gotten the thrill of seeing someone torn apart in the chat sections. Being ACTUALLY sure about what happened could potentially get in the way of this, so why waste time on that?
Let's just condemn him for bumping a model, forgetting a dice, and mistaking a measurement. HE IS FOR SURE A CHEATER AND I KNOW THIS 100%!!
No. You don't. You said it best, they aren't executing him in public so you just don't care, this is just good drama for you to lap up.
I've never played a game that didn't have at least as many tiny mistakes, and these guys were at the end of a long, very poorly accommodated day.
Geoff made a BUNCH of mismeasures himself. He also said that you had to draw line of sight to a models base. He accidentally re-rolled extra dice where he shouldn't have multiple times, and pushed some models too far in movement. He also had a bunch of screws with cards, forgetting to draw cards on the previous game, messed up the re-drawing of cards, misused his stratagem to draw from the wrong place, etc. This is just the kind of thing that happens in 40k.
You'd know all this if you had read his explanation, and also ACTUALLY watched the stream. But you didn't, you watched a 2 minute clip focusing on one player's mistakes, and now are "100% sure" he was cheating.
These responses make me laugh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 02:55:17
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
Let's not forget the comments from people more familiar with the local community that this guy had a reputation for cheating. That puts things in a very different context and makes the excuses for all these "mistakes" a lot less convincing.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
If that video evidence alone isn't enough to convince you, then please don't ever get on a jury. We'll have killers back on the streets.
'Polite warnings' didn't work. Disqualifications didn't work. He got banned from ONE tournament scene. Not all of them. And he shouldn't have made it this for.
The evidence is there. WATCH IT.
I have watched it. I actually had to rewatch it because I missed where he bumped the model with his water cup. It could be argued that it was intentional, but I also know that I've actually done the exact same thing on accident while playing so that isn't conclusive evidence of cheating.
Also forgetting to discard cards? I can't tell you how many times both me and my opponent have done that. It also isn't conclusive evidence of cheating.
The only thing that looked even remotely fishy to me was the wound counter thing, and even then I can't tell you how many times I've picked up my opponents dice on accident to roll, usually it's a non issue.
Also, his "prior history" of cheating is not only unverified hearsay, but completely irrelevant to this case, right here, right now.
I sincerely hope YOU are never placed on a jury because you are supposed to PRESUME fething innocence, and not have a preconcieved notion of guilt that you seek to confirm with the evidence. Even if you are pretty fething sure this person is guilty ITS NOT ENOUGH, you need evidence BEYOND reasonable doubt, which IMO hasn't been met here.
tripchimeras wrote: No one knows the rules to a GW game as well as they think they do...
I still have no idea when I have to declare FTGG for each squad. Is it all units after they declare the charge or can I go one unit at a time until they're wiped out? I can't find anywhere that says when it has to be declared to fire. "When an enemy unit declares a charge, a unit with this ability that is within 6" of one of the charging unit's targets may fire Overwatch as if they were also targeted. A unit that does so cannot fire Overwatch again in this turn." Rather than risk it, I'd be going unit by unit like I would in the shooting phase and not declaring all my units at once.
That dude cheated. He as trying to be all super ninja squirrel with his water glass. But there is no please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n way you can pick up a glass full with water and place it down deliberately and in a controlled and slow motion while holding the glass with your hand push outward hard enough to move a large top heavy model enough without noticing you moved a large top heavy model. And then quickly pull your glass back and pretend nothing happened all the while your opponent was distracted moving his models on his turn. Again this wasn’t an accidental bump this was a push outward.
The only excuse he has was what did he gain out of moving his model. None of us are mind readers. I don’t care if he thought he was blocking line of sight, I don’t care if he thought someone was going to shoot at it, or pushing the models together so nothing could fit between them to assault. Really it doesn’t matter what was going through his head at that moment all that matters is he deliberately cheated.
I honestly don’t know how you can defend that move it’s abot as blatant as someone rolling dice saying they hit on a 1 and quickly picking up thier dice so their opponent didn’t see and getting caught on camera lying kinda obvious cheating which he’s also basically did as well with his tau rules manipulation nonsense.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/24 08:10:25
The only one who's pretending they know something they don't here, is you. Of course you don't care or have any sympathy, it doesn't affect you, so why would you, right? You've gotten to take the moral highground and act self righteous about something, and gotten the thrill of seeing someone torn apart in the chat sections. Being ACTUALLY sure about what happened could potentially get in the way of this, so why waste time on that?
I am taking the moral high ground. Because I'm not a cheater. He gets no sympathy from me, because clearly not only does the video evidence tell me he was cheating- but every judge reviewed this video evidence and determined he is a cheater.
Dude, if I 'accidentally' bumped some chick's boob the way he 'accidentally' bumped that model with the glass I'd be in prison already. It's blatantly obvious.
SHUPPET wrote: Let's just condemn him for bumping a model, forgetting a dice, and mistaking a measurement. HE IS FOR SURE A CHEATER AND I KNOW THIS 100%!!
No. You don't. You said it best, they aren't executing him in public so you just don't care, this is just good drama for you to lap up.
It's not an execution. It's being barred from playing toy soldiers in one tournament circuit. Please, dude- stop exaggerating.
SHUPPET wrote: I've never played a game that didn't have at least as many tiny mistakes, and these guys were at the end of a long, very poorly accommodated day.
You're not playing against professionals, and honestly I think if that many 'mistakes' are being made the same way you're in a den of cheaters.
SHUPPET wrote: Geoff made a BUNCH of mismeasures himself. He also said that you had to draw line of sight to a models base. He accidentally re-rolled extra dice where he shouldn't have multiple times, and pushed some models too far in movement. He also had a bunch of screws with cards, forgetting to draw cards on the previous game, messed up the re-drawing of cards, misused his stratagem to draw from the wrong place, etc. This is just the kind of thing that happens in 40k.
Evidence, please.
SHUPPET wrote: You'd know all this if you had read his explanation, and also ACTUALLY watched the stream. But you didn't, you watched a 2 minute clip focusing on one player's mistakes, and now are "100% sure" he was cheating.
The guy who got cheating on video isn't what I consider an honest, unbiased opinion on whether or not he cheated.
Looks a lot more like crying to me. You're acting like we're putting a rope around his neck and condemning him in town square.
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w1zard wrote: I have watched it. I actually had to rewatch it because I missed where he bumped the model with his water cup. It could be argued that it was intentional, but I also know that I've actually done the exact same thing on accident while playing so that isn't conclusive evidence of cheating.
If that looked 'accidental' to you, then by all means I'd like to 'accidentally' get my hands near your wallet. I hope you'll be as forgiving, and I hope there's enough there to get me some Zone Mortalis terrain.
SHUPPET wrote: Also, his "prior history" of cheating is not only unverified hearsay, but completely irrelevant to this case, right here, right now.
It's called 'establishing a pattern'. Kind of crucial in literally any investigation.
SHUPPET wrote: I sincerely hope YOU are never placed on a jury because you are supposed to PRESUME fething innocence, and not have a preconcieved notion of guilt that you seek to confirm with the evidence. Even if you are pretty fething sure this person is guilty ITS NOT ENOUGH, you need evidence BEYOND reasonable doubt, which IMO hasn't been met here.
Well, it was enough for a multitude of people involved in judging this thing. Not enough for you. And your opinion is not important.
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Peregrine wrote: Let's not forget the comments from people more familiar with the local community that this guy had a reputation for cheating. That puts things in a very different context and makes the excuses for all these "mistakes" a lot less convincing.
Of note, and if I'm not mistaken- that reputation preceded his participation in the LGT.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/24 03:07:44
Peregrine wrote: Let's not forget the comments from people more familiar with the local community that this guy had a reputation for cheating. That puts things in a very different context and makes the excuses for all these "mistakes" a lot less convincing.
That's not verifiable evidence, and if this was something we take into account then he shouldn't have been allowed to compete.
He's one of the best players in his scene (clearly to do as well as he did at this big event). This often causes salt, especially amongst the lesser competitive members, as well as some of the WAAC jerks. I have never (intentionally) cheated once in my life. Guarantee if I was up in the stocks like he is right now, there would be a bunch of salty losers coming out of the wordworks "verifying" that I cheat, remembering that one time i accidentally brushed a model over or got a rule wrong, to help them self-validate their losses. We see this all the time when people lose, they reach for anything they can to justify it, including balance, "cheap" tactics, "rules lawyering", whatever lets them get out of admitting they were beaten by a better player. I don't find this to be at all relevant in establishing whether or not he definitively cheated. We can SEE the game.
I got as far as the first sentence. Be honest - has anyone EVER responded to a post you've written like this? Reformat it to something somewhat readable instead of a quote inserted between every single sentence. I doubt anyone is reading it like this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 03:09:54
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
w1zard wrote: Also, his "prior history" of cheating is not only unverified hearsay, but completely irrelevant to this case, right here, right now.
Of course it's relevant. Events don't happen in isolation, and when you're asking to give someone the benefit of the doubt it really matters if they're a person with a reputation for fair play and no prior cheating incidents or a person everyone already suspects has cheated previously even if on-camera proof hasn't been available.
Even if you are pretty fething sure this person is guilty ITS NOT ENOUGH, you need evidence BEYOND reasonable doubt, which IMO hasn't been met here.
Nope. This is not a criminal jury trial. This is a private organization deciding who to invite to their private events. There is zero obligation to use any standard beyond "we feel like banning this guy".
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Peregrine wrote: Nope. This is not a criminal jury trial. This is a private organization deciding who to invite to their private events. There is zero obligation to use any standard beyond "we feel like banning this guy".
And you know, I used to be on Jeremy's side in the 'Magicgate' thing (until I dug a LOT deeper). Even though I think what was done was a bit extreme, I have always believed that a private group does have the right to ban someone for whatever they want- and accept the backlash with it.
Fair is fair. I've been to a tournament that banned a guy that wasn't even cheating, but had a lousy attitude about winning. No trial. No jury. Just the TO's saying "nope".
Also, if someone has a 'reputation' I'll still give them the benefit of the doubt. But if you tell me, "Watch out, Johnny Sneak likes to bump models with his soda can and fudge wound counters when you're not looking" and I catch him doing that exact thing? It's highly unlikely that someone was making up lies about Johnny Sneak and I coincidentally doing exactly that the first time he'd ever done so, and by accident.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 03:20:59
SHUPPET wrote: That's not verifiable evidence, and if this was something we take into account then he shouldn't have been allowed to compete.
I'm sorry, but in exactly what part of the world is video evidence showing someone doing an exact and specific action not 'verifiable evidence'? What more do you require? A confession?
Wait, you have video evidence validating the rumors of him cheating BEFORE THIS EVENT, at his local community? Please, do share! Because that's literally the only thing that I said wasn't verifiable evidence?
SHUPPET wrote: He's one of the best players in his scene (clearly to do as well as he did at this big event). This often causes salt, especially amongst the lesser competitive members, as well as some of the WAAC jerks. I have never (intentionally) cheated once in my life. Guarantee if I was up in the stocks like he is right now, there would be a bunch of salty losers coming out of the wordworks "verifying" that I cheat, remembering that one time i accidentally brushed a model over or got a rule wrong, to help them self-validate their losses. We see this all the time when people lose, they reach for anything they can to justify it, including balance, "cheap" tactics, "rules lawyering", whatever lets them get out of admitting they were beaten by a better player. I don't find this to be at all relevant in establishing whether or not he definitively cheated. We can SEE the game.
...are you that guy? Because you're awfully defensive, to the point of doing mental gymnastics?
"Yeah man they just conspired against him because he is so good. And also handsome. And awesome!"
His OPPONENT, and NO ONE HE PLAYED AGAINST at this event was accusing him of cheating without evidence. This was done by judges and the TO. The people hosting it. And I highly doubt they got together and said, "You know what? That guy's too good. Let's lie about him and screw him over at the last game. Because mustache-twirling reasons!"
Wait, you now have information on who and how many people made this decision? Can you share this too?
Are you a guy who lost to him? Cause you seem awfully quick to condemn him, with more baseless assumptions being thrown out in every post you make.
You call this mental gymnastics, yet it's PROVEN human behaviour, that many people have a very strong NEED to find excuses for failure - just like you are doing right now in this argument you are losing, when you call a scientifically researched phenomena "mental gymnastics" just because it disagrees with you.
We know exactly what the decision was based on - the guy who posted it made a write up. So we have all the evidence he used when we say that it's a flimsy decision.
I got as far as the first sentence. Because I don't have an argument.
Is that better?
If that was the case I wouldn't have responded to your nonsense at all. But just like all garbage, when you shine a the torch on it, it's hard to mistake it for anything that was wanted. If you had a real argument you wouldn't need to respond in a way that is literally having to take every single sentence of context of the post, dissect it and try to dismantle it, I glance at something like that and I already know it's going to be a waste of time. You write your posts in an unreadable way, don't be surprised when people don't read it.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/05/24 03:30:02
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
Wait, you now have information on who and how many people made this decision? Can you share this too?
Are you a guy who lost to him? Cause you seem awfully quick to condemn him, with more baseless assumptions being thrown out in every post you make.
We know exactly what the decision was based on - the guy who posted it made a write up.
Dude, who the hell exactly did you think made the decision? The janitor? A few random hobos outside? Matt Ward on a coke bender?
Seriously, fess up- are you one of his buddies? Are you him? No sane person without a clear case of fanboyism or being that guy would be this defensive.
A 'baseless accusation' doesn't have video evidence. In fact, that's what we call a pretty solid accusation with evidence supporting it. If this WERE a criminal trial, he would be trying to make a plea deal because he has no defense at all. Zero.
If that was the case I wouldn't have responded to your nonsense at all. But just like all garbage, when you shine a the torch on it, it's hard to mistake it for anything that was wanted. If you had a real argument you wouldn't need to respond in a way that is literally having to take every single sentence of context of the post, dissect it and try to dismantle it, I glance at something like that and I already know it's going to be a waste of time. You write your posts in an unreadable way, don't be surprised when people don't read it.
If that is 'unreadable' then I'm starting to understand why blatant video evidence wasn't enough for you. You really need to see an optometrist.
So, basically you have no argument. You've resorting to 'You made too many words for me to see'. Yeah, that's what I expected.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Those aren't "a few mistakes" - that's outright, blatant cheating.
Our friends above seem to be convinced that 'confessed intent' is the determining factor. So I'll say it like this, the guy is one of two things:
1- A Cheater.
2- The most convenient clutz in the professional tier, who is so comically clumsy and inattentive that he just happens to screw up in a way that works in his favor multiple times and should STILL be banned for being such a clutz.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 03:30:14
Wait, you now have information on who and how many people made this decision? Can you share this too?
Are you a guy who lost to him? Cause you seem awfully quick to condemn him, with more baseless assumptions being thrown out in every post you make.
We know exactly what the decision was based on - the guy who posted it made a write up.
Dude, who the hell exactly did you think made the decision? The janitor? A few random hobos outside? Matt Ward on a coke bender?
Seriously, fess up- are you one of his buddies? Are you him? No sane person without a clear case of fanboyism or being that guy would be this defensive.
A 'baseless accusation' doesn't have video evidence. In fact, that's what we call a pretty solid accusation with evidence supporting it. If this WERE a criminal trial, he would be trying to make a plea deal because he has no defense at all. Zero.
If that was the case I wouldn't have responded to your nonsense at all. But just like all garbage, when you shine a the torch on it, it's hard to mistake it for anything that was wanted. If you had a real argument you wouldn't need to respond in a way that is literally having to take every single sentence of context of the post, dissect it and try to dismantle it, I glance at something like that and I already know it's going to be a waste of time. You write your posts in an unreadable way, don't be surprised when people don't read it.
If that is 'unreadable' then I'm starting to understand why blatant video evidence wasn't enough for you. You really need to see an optometrist.
So, basically you have no argument. You've resorting to 'You made too many words for me to see'. Yeah, that's what I expected.
How ironic. I responded to every single post in its entirety, other than the one post that was formatted like a 3 year old was hitting the enter key everytime you stopped to breath, so you filled in the gaps by quoting each. and. every. single sentence individually in my post. Which shouldn't surprise you. Nobody reads those posts.
You on the other hand are being extremely selective in your reading. You just ignored the parts of my post that you didn't have a response to, like the fact that you don't actually have any verifiable video evidence of him cheating before this event as you just claimed. Or the fact that you implied that people don't grasp bs excuses for losing, and called it "mental gymnastics for me to say so", and then ignored my response saying that this is psychologically proven human behaviour? lol.
I'm out. Some people are frothing at the mouth for this guy to get his comeuppance, and I've said my piece. This argument is pointless, you aren't even making sense anymore, just looking for a quick "gotcha!" with every post to try and say I don't have an argument. You tried. Have a good one.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
SHUPPET wrote: How ironic. I responded to every single post in its entirety, other than the one post that was formatted like a 3 year old was hitting the enter key everytime you stopped to breath, so you filled in the gaps by quoting each. and. every. single sentence individually in my post. Which shouldn't surprise you. Nobody reads those posts.
[Citation needed]
SHUPPET wrote: You on the other hand are being extremely selective in your reading.
SHUPPET wrote: Or the fact that you implied that people don't grasp bs excuses for losing, and called it "mental gymnastics for me to say so", and then ignored my response saying that this is psychologically proven human behaviour? lol.
You're turning an observed thing into a nonsense argument. Yes, it's a proven fact that some people will grasp desperately for any answer besides "I lost to a better player", but that doesn't mean that it applies to this situation. If it's about excuses for losing then why are people like me, who have never played against the guy or even heard of him before this cheating incident, supporting a ban? Why hasn't the second-place player, who beat a similar number of people in the process of getting to the top table, received the same jealousy and excuses in the form of cheating accusations and calls for a ban? Why has this one player, out of all of the competitive players and all of the games they have won, been singled out like this? You have two choices:
1) He is such a successful and elite god of 40k that he inspires jealousy beyond anyone else, and everyone is truly out to get him.
or
2) He already had a reputation of being a dirty player, a reputation not shared by other players at the top tables, and so when he was finally caught cheating on camera his excuses were not credible.
I think we both know which is the more plausible explanation here.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Those aren't "a few mistakes" - that's outright, blatant cheating.
Our friends above seem to be convinced that 'confessed intent' is the determining factor. So I'll say it like this, the guy is one of two things:
1- A Cheater.
2- The most convenient clutz in the professional tier, who is so comically clumsy and inattentive that he just happens to screw up in a way that works in his favor multiple times and should STILL be banned for being such a clutz.
Indeed. I can accept the occasional mistake as something that gets corrected (and generously), but fast rolling and poor measurement that I can't verify are automatic red flags.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Indeed. I can accept the occasional mistake as something that gets corrected (and generously), but fast rolling and poor measurement that I can't verify are automatic red flags.
There's also this: We all make mistakes. The thing is, when we make mistakes, we correct them. Even if they are in our favor or not in our favor. When you argue with a judge about a blatant 'mistake' that just so happens to work in your favor, it's showing guilt.
Dude, the thing with the water cup is comical. It wasn't a 'bump', it was a 'push'. A very obvious 'push' complete with resistance and friction and everything. Ever seen Anchorman, when Champ Kind is trying to pick up Veronica and rubs all over her chest? "Oops, sorry 'bout that, whammy..." It was about as 'accidental' and even more obvious than that.
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
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60PL 
12PL 
Let a billion souls burn in death than for one soul to bend knee to a false Emperor.....
