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I'm, surprised with how much negativity there is in these threads. Every codex released is unique, fluffy and has some competitive builds in them and I see no reason orks will be any different. IMO GW has been doing an amazing job with every recent codex dropped and every time i listen to a review im tempted to go out and buy some.... I think this knight release did me in, im gonna have to pick one up.

Asmodios wrote:
I'm, surprised with how much negativity there is in these threads. Every codex released is unique, fluffy and has some competitive builds in them and I see no reason orks will be any different. IMO GW has been doing an amazing job with every recent codex dropped and every time i listen to a review im tempted to go out and buy some.... I think this knight release did me in, im gonna have to pick one up.

2 Things.

1: orks have a long track record of having uninspired, bad for the sake of bad, garbage codexes. Seriously, I own all the ork books, and let me tell you, they were only good in 4th edition. The Matt Ward Era was not kind to xenos....

2: You're on a forum that's starting to become synonymous with whining. Most of the people having fun are just playing the game, and not spending hours online dissecting people's comments to destroy them in an argument. Dakkadakka is a very small minority of overall players. I know its not the ENTIRE forum, but the negativity here is a lot worse than other warhammer forums by a large margin. http://www.tga.community is 100% age of sigmar stuff, but the amount of butthurt there is practically nonexistent. We're all on the same side here guys and gals.

Overall GW has been on top of things, but the knights release has me a little worried for orks. GW apparently just forgot that they invented renegade knights and didn't think anyone would ever play them so they get no rules....? The people running their facebook seem to not even play their own game or use the internet for that matter and seem so baffled that anyone would want anything besides Imperium stuff. I don't want my warboss in mega armor to be squatted for index only. Just make some new clamshells because orks desperately need it.

edit: It doesn't even make sense from a business standpoint. Wouldn't you want the increased revenue of chaos players in your model line consisting of 180 dollar kits that you have to buy multiples of?

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
If SW are not getting anything else than a Primaris upgrade sprue I'm going to be fethin' red with rage. They could have just released the codex with BA/DA and be done with it. The late release is at least to me a slight indication that SW might be getting something new altogether. My hopes are on Russ but who knows, they haven't even teased anything yet.

For Orks I really don't need any new models, I just want a bloody playable army!

I don't understand why you'd be upset if wolves released late without anything but not if Orks released late without anything? They could have released the Ork Dex with Craft world and Nids and be done with it.

Because Orks at least can be argued to need a fair bit of work, space Wolves if they get nothing new, and just the standard primaris stuff, it's like "why wait so long?"

That makes no sense.

If Orks need a fair bit of work then they need new models even more.

Isn't one of the advantages of playing Orks, making your own stuff?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
If SW are not getting anything else than a Primaris upgrade sprue I'm going to be fethin' red with rage. They could have just released the codex with BA/DA and be done with it. The late release is at least to me a slight indication that SW might be getting something new altogether. My hopes are on Russ but who knows, they haven't even teased anything yet.

For Orks I really don't need any new models, I just want a bloody playable army!

I don't understand why you'd be upset if wolves released late without anything but not if Orks released late without anything? They could have released the Ork Dex with Craft world and Nids and be done with it.

Because Orks at least can be argued to need a fair bit of work, space Wolves if they get nothing new, and just the standard primaris stuff, it's like "why wait so long?"

That makes no sense.

If Orks need a fair bit of work then they need new models even more.

not what I mean, Orks need completely new stratigiums etc. Space Wolves will likely get a number of old space marine stratigiums and a handfull of unique ones. barring anything new, space wolves where about 75% complete when the Marine 'dex dropped

Do not mention Matt Ward here... his name is banned in the Ork language!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Don Savik wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I'm, surprised with how much negativity there is in these threads. Every codex released is unique, fluffy and has some competitive builds in them and I see no reason orks will be any different. IMO GW has been doing an amazing job with every recent codex dropped and every time i listen to a review im tempted to go out and buy some.... I think this knight release did me in, im gonna have to pick one up.

2 Things.

1: orks have a long track record of having uninspired, bad for the sake of bad, garbage codexes. Seriously, I own all the ork books, and let me tell you, they were only good in 4th edition. The Matt Ward Era was not kind to xenos....

2: You're on a forum that's starting to become synonymous with whining. Most of the people having fun are just playing the game, and not spending hours online dissecting people's comments to destroy them in an argument. Dakkadakka is a very small minority of overall players. I know its not the ENTIRE forum, but the negativity here is a lot worse than other warhammer forums by a large margin. http://www.tga.community is 100% age of sigmar stuff, but the amount of butthurt there is practically nonexistent. We're all on the same side here guys and gals.

Overall GW has been on top of things, but the knights release has me a little worried for orks. GW apparently just forgot that they invented renegade knights and didn't think anyone would ever play them so they get no rules....? The people running their facebook seem to not even play their own game or use the internet for that matter and seem so baffled that anyone would want anything besides Imperium stuff. I don't want my warboss in mega armor to be squatted for index only. Just make some new clamshells because orks desperately need it.

edit: It doesn't even make sense from a business standpoint. Wouldn't you want the increased revenue of chaos players in your model line consisting of 180 dollar kits that you have to buy multiples of?

Also complaining for us is fun and stress relief. In reality we're not really this sad... gw and 40k is such a small part of my life... but a good complaint and debate can go amlong way in feeding mah boredom when I'm sat on the buss!

But yes... you are correct. For a long period of time most our our units never had models. We had to make our own! Thus, orks became linked with kit bashing. However, 8th edition has destroyed and basically delted any kit bashing. Therefore, for some people, a lot of their ork army might become useless and unusable when the codex comes out. And don't say we have the index because we all know that the index won't last forever and soon they will be delted forever. This is what we fear. Our HQ's were already cut in half this edition (mega armour and bike were basically upgrades not new characters) and if our mega boss, warbike mek, kff mek (the most important hq to our army), bike painboy vanish then we are screwed like a squig in a cannon.

lolman1c wrote:
But yes... you are correct. For a long period of time most our our units never had models. We had to make our own! Thus, orks became linked with kit bashing. However, 8th edition has destroyed and basically delted any kit bashing. Therefore, for some people, a lot of their ork army might become useless and unusable when the codex comes out. And don't say we have the index because we all know that the index won't last forever and soon they will be delted forever. This is what we fear. Our HQ's were already cut in half this edition (mega armour and bike were basically upgrades not new characters) and if our mega boss, warbike mek, kff mek (the most important hq to our army), bike painboy vanish then we are screwed like a squig in a cannon.

This concern terrifies me, and I’m not even an Ork player. The current direction GW is taking of ‘if it doesn’t have a dedicated kit with that exact loadout it’s not a legal option’ is just utter misery, and I can’t even see a good business case for it.

Also, yes, this board is certainly the home of the whinging. The only forum I know of that’s worse is Bell of Lost Souls’ comments, which are so toxic I gave up on the site completely. If you want to see a healthy community of happy 40k players, go to Bolter and Chainsword’s Black Templars sub forum; a group of some of the hardest-done-by people in the hobby that have overcome that adversity to create an enthusiastic and positive environment.

Asmodios wrote:I'm, surprised with how much negativity there is in these threads. Every codex released is unique, fluffy and has some competitive builds in them and I see no reason orks will be any different. IMO GW has been doing an amazing job with every recent codex dropped and every time i listen to a review im tempted to go out and buy some.... I think this knight release did me in, im gonna have to pick one up.

To be fair, this is only true of the post-Astra Militarum Codexes. The five pre-AM books (Marines, Chaos Marines, Grey Knights, AdMech and to a slightly lesser extent Death Guard) are lacking the love shown in the depth of the later books. That they happen to be the first books seems to speak to the problem being their being finished before the launch of 8th Ed. All the books since have been consistently much better written so you’d hope no more will be as bad as the early ones this Edition, but there is still a genuine concern that Orks could turn out like Grey Knights...

 Don Savik wrote:
2: You're on a forum that's starting to become synonymous with whining. Most of the people having fun are just playing the game, and not spending hours online dissecting people's comments to destroy them in an argument. Dakkadakka is a very small minority of overall players. I know its not the ENTIRE forum, but the negativity here is a lot worse than other warhammer forums by a large margin. http://www.tga.community is 100% age of sigmar stuff, but the amount of butthurt there is practically nonexistent. We're all on the same side here guys and gals.

And TGA has a reputation of quashing any dissenting opinion - of the two, I'll take the one where you can express your opinion with minimal chances of it getting nuked from orbit for dissenting from the groupthink...

Yes, I'm super careful on tga... i try to ac5 as happy as possible so i don't get banned. XD

Didn't TGA start with that exact purpose? Whe AoS just released it was a near unplayable mess due to lack of points but you couldn't discuss it anywhere without getting drowned in hatred do the forum began with a zero tolerance rule for negativity. You can find that everywhere alse but here.

Also the reason for if no model = no rules is the chapterhouse court case, tough we do not know the details of it.

lolman1c wrote:Yes, I'm super careful on tga... i try to ac5 as happy as possible so i don't get banned. XD

Jasper from the Simpsons: “Happy thoughts... happy thoughts... boy, I’m getting mighty sick of this-‘ *pop*

Earth127 wrote:
Also the reason for if no model = no rules is the chapterhouse court case, tough we do not know the details of it.

For the damage that guy has done to this hobby I’m sorta glad they ruined his livelihood.

Yeah he found the line, and a lot of people don't like the result.

After that GW had little choice due to tm laws. They know what they have to do to enforce and not weaken their tm .

 lolman1c wrote:
And don't say we have the index because we all know that the index won't last forever and soon they will be delted forever.

Do we? Are we expecting codex price increased to incorporate price of index? Because if there's something we can count it's GW being greedy. Why sell only codex when you can sell codex AND index to player of some army...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Earth127 wrote:
Yeah he found the line, and a lot of people don't like the result.

After that GW had little choice due to tm laws. They know what they have to do to enforce and not weaken their tm .

Only real effect that had is the no model no rule. Alternative models comes just as easily. All design changes and name changes and whatnot are irrelevant. So GW basically decided we'll hurt players rather than compete with others.

I don't know if we should put all the blame on the chapter house thing... i mean i know what they did was wrong but gw outright would rather mkae more marines and remove units people were playing for years than actually make models to fill in missing holes.

I mean I would honestly rather have a dedicated mega armour warboss model just so I can keep the data sheet than a prime ork boy.

Don't forget that we are in Age of Th Primarch now and its been a good amount of time since Morty was released. If there was going to be a new primarch you'd expect it to be a loyalist one and only one loyalist marine book left to come...
Russ vs SuperGhaz

GW were in the wrong with chapter house just like they were with dot the space marine.

It's stupid to try and crush third party companies if they had any business sense they'd make a license deal and let other people make the capes and tabards they wont.

Calling your armies stupid names won't stop people making stuff for them.

Recently I built a deathsworn unit I used mk iv as the base but to arm them I had to go for another companies products to get melee arms and axes and a different one to that for helms.

If gw won't make the stuff people want other companies will that's just business.

That's why they limit what others can make that they don't.

 Earth127 wrote:
Yeah he found the line, and a lot of people don't like the result.

After that GW had little choice due to tm laws. They know what they have to do to enforce and not weaken their tm .

TBH though. If GWs universe was just getting off the ground in this day and age. They wouldnt exist. Theyd have been raped into the ground by tm lawyers.

My buddy has been waiting for Space Wolves since the beginning of 8th. He almost cried when they moved on from all the chapters and starting working on the xenos.

I'm sure it'll have some awesome artwork and updated unit rules and some cool stratagems and powers and artifacts, and so long as it doesn't suck, I'm sure he'll consider that "absolutely packed" and be happy.

Archebius wrote:
My buddy has been waiting for Space Wolves since the beginning of 8th. He almost cried when they moved on from all the chapters and starting working on the xenos.

I'm sure it'll have some awesome artwork and updated unit rules and some cool stratagems and powers and artifacts, and so long as it doesn't suck, I'm sure he'll consider that "absolutely packed" and be happy.

Funny. Our Xenos players were crying too for very different reasons. I can understand Orks, but Space Wolves still have BJorn to carry them until he inevtibly gets nerfed in the codex release. Maybe he doesn't like playing with dreadnaughts?

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Archebius wrote:
My buddy has been waiting for Space Wolves since the beginning of 8th. He almost cried when they moved on from all the chapters and starting working on the xenos.

I'm sure it'll have some awesome artwork and updated unit rules and some cool stratagems and powers and artifacts, and so long as it doesn't suck, I'm sure he'll consider that "absolutely packed" and be happy.

Funny. Our Xenos players were crying too for very different reasons. I can understand Orks, but Space Wolves still have BJorn to carry them until he inevtibly gets nerfed in the codex release. Maybe he doesn't like playing with dreadnaughts?

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

fe40k wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Archebius wrote:
My buddy has been waiting for Space Wolves since the beginning of 8th. He almost cried when they moved on from all the chapters and starting working on the xenos.

I'm sure it'll have some awesome artwork and updated unit rules and some cool stratagems and powers and artifacts, and so long as it doesn't suck, I'm sure he'll consider that "absolutely packed" and be happy.

Funny. Our Xenos players were crying too for very different reasons. I can understand Orks, but Space Wolves still have BJorn to carry them until he inevtibly gets nerfed in the codex release. Maybe he doesn't like playing with dreadnaughts?

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

How DARE they!? Wanting to use their army!? Not wanting to proxy everything!? People are just ridiculous.

Orks will likely get a standard new edition Codex - so new rules, points drops, relics Strategms etc. Likely make a much better army list but doubt any new models.

Wolves will get the same plus Wolfy Wolf Primaris because marines get new Marines..

hobojebus wrote:
If gw won't make the stuff people want other companies will that's just business.

To some degree since it happened yes but GW don't have to like it. Their concern has always been that you would just go and buy "not Space Marines" and "not Orks" from "discount mould store" rather than their products. After all what does the raw plastic really cost?

The reason why this probably won't happen is that that "not Space Marines" have typically looked awful (with certain exceptions who bought lots of Mantic stuff for instance?) - but the fear is there, especially if manufacturers can get very close to the aesthetic - which is a clear breach of intellectual property.

Cynically around 2010, when they started to really go for this stuff, GW's lead over the competition was rapidly declining. Their products were not much better than say Warmahordes.
From about 2015 onwards - tying in with the Rountree era - their models have become dramatically better than most competitors.

Yeah and with FW clearing out mu h of their stock it just encourages 3rd part crap.

But yeah, orks are more likely to lose more units than we will gain... while wolves will just get an upgrade and be fine... their warboss can ride on a giant wolve until they die, our Mek on bike will have to retire his speed and use the crappy shock attack gunl

 Mr Morden wrote:
Orks will likely get a standard new edition Codex - so new rules, points drops, relics Strategms etc. Likely make a much better army list but doubt any new models.

Wolves will get the same plus Wolfy Wolf Primaris because marines get new Marines..

Except gw alreadv hinted at modeis

As much as I want to hope, you til I see an official post or video from a dev or official GW account, then I will not give 100% trust. GW has broken many an Orks hearts before.

fe40k wrote:

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

Wow, thanks! That’s super helpful! Now I realise how I can just counts-as my Thunderwolf Cavalry! And my Ravenwing Black Knights! And my Sanguinary Guard! And my Crusader Squads!

If you’re going to be snarky at least be right.

For what it's worth, someone brought up the fact that if "No model, no rules" sticks, Orks won't have much to work with - and the Facebook team attempted to assuage their fears, and told them that it wouldn't be a problem; and there'd be plenty of units to work with (in terms of rules).

That said, we'll see when the codex comes out...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kombatwombat wrote:

fe40k wrote:

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

Wow, thanks! That’s super helpful! Now I realise how I can just counts-as my Thunderwolf Cavalry! And my Ravenwing Black Knights! And my Sanguinary Guard! And my Crusader Squads!

If you’re going to be snarky at least be right.

Tell me what those units bring to the table that's so unique they can't be represented by other model's rules; I'm curious.

kombatwombat wrote:

fe40k wrote:

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

Wow, thanks! That’s super helpful! Now I realise how I can just counts-as my Thunderwolf Cavalry! And my Ravenwing Black Knights! And my Sanguinary Guard! And my Crusader Squads!

If you’re going to be snarky at least be right.

That works lot better than using say orks with blood angel rules. Point being wolf player# have that option to get codex power while waiting for wolf codex and indeed using different marine codexes with same marine models is this age normal