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This has probably been discussed in the plethora of pages before this but wading through might take too long. I've played vs Knights a few times with my dirty Eldar and have generally come out on top. I see the usual Houses represented but I have yet to see anyone running Mortan. I know on paper it doesn't look overly solid, but that 1 CP strat to fire without any modifiers at all seems like gravy vs Aeldari. I'm thinking of adding one to my Imperial lists (plus 2 Armigers) and may try this option. Probably a Crusader with Thermal or RFBC and Endless Fury. Probably take some rockets too. The -1 to hit warlord trait for Mortan isn't tooo shabby either (although tough to take over Ion Bulwark)
If I'm running Deathwatch, I don't think it's the best choice as they can handle Eldar but it might be a good option for my Dark Angels, especially if I throw a Culexus or 2 in there too to help vs Doom.

What am I missing (apart from the inability to negate MW and fire on top profile)?

While I do like the stratagem and warlord trait, I have a couple of problems with Mortan. The first is that the tradition is pretty much a strictly worse version of krast’s (re-rolling to hit is almost always better than adding +1). The second is that mortan’s relic might as well not exist (you don’t want an upgraded chainsword when paragon gauntlet already exist, and I don’t even use paragon gauntlet). Finally, Morton is imperial and we all know that being being mechanicus fat is better than being imperial.

If you really value the stratagem and warlord trait these downsides might be worth bearing, but I myself am not willing to give up the advantages ta house like krast has (headsman mark, better tradition, mechanicus) for them.

Salt donkey wrote:
While I do like the stratagem and warlord trait, I have a couple of problems with Mortan. The first is that the tradition is pretty much a strictly worse version of krast’s (re-rolling to hit is almost always better than adding +1). The second is that mortan’s relic might as well not exist (you don’t want an upgraded chainsword when paragon gauntlet already exist, and I don’t even use paragon gauntlet). Finally, Morton is imperial and we all know that being being mechanicus fat is better than being imperial.

If you really value the stratagem and warlord trait these downsides might be worth bearing, but I myself am not willing to give up the advantages ta house like krast has (headsman mark, better tradition, mechanicus) for them.

Mechanicus is pretty good, but I'm really enjoying running a pair of Terryn Gallants with my Guard list Everyone plays Mechanicus Knights, so the Imperial Gallants have a few tricks people just don't expect. I'm running one with the normal Ion Bulwark, so I can rotate Ion Shields, and I can outflank the other. Effectively this means you don't have a "softer" Knight to shoot at, since the outflanking one gets Landstrider w/ House Terryn, so for a charge roll I just need a 7 on 3D6 pick highest. The Fight Twice stratagem for Terryn is also great if you MUST kill something, and Valiant Last Stand is much better than Noble Sacrifice against enemy characters or scary units, since a fully degraded Gallant hits on a 4+ anyway, and you can focus all those attacks on a single target instead of everything in 2D6 taking D6 mortals.

So yea, if you're taking Gallants there are compelling reasons IMO to go Imperial, but for shooting Knights Mechanicus is where it's at.

 Horst wrote:

Salt donkey wrote:
While I do like the stratagem and warlord trait, I have a couple of problems with Mortan. The first is that the tradition is pretty much a strictly worse version of krast’s (re-rolling to hit is almost always better than adding +1). The second is that mortan’s relic might as well not exist (you don’t want an upgraded chainsword when paragon gauntlet already exist, and I don’t even use paragon gauntlet). Finally, Morton is imperial and we all know that being being mechanicus fat is better than being imperial.

If you really value the stratagem and warlord trait these downsides might be worth bearing, but I myself am not willing to give up the advantages ta house like krast has (headsman mark, better tradition, mechanicus) for them.

Mechanicus is pretty good, but I'm really enjoying running a pair of Terryn Gallants with my Guard list Everyone plays Mechanicus Knights, so the Imperial Gallants have a few tricks people just don't expect. I'm running one with the normal Ion Bulwark, so I can rotate Ion Shields, and I can outflank the other. Effectively this means you don't have a "softer" Knight to shoot at, since the outflanking one gets Landstrider w/ House Terryn, so for a charge roll I just need a 7 on 3D6 pick highest. The Fight Twice stratagem for Terryn is also great if you MUST kill something, and Valiant Last Stand is much better than Noble Sacrifice against enemy characters or scary units, since a fully degraded Gallant hits on a 4+ anyway, and you can focus all those attacks on a single target instead of everything in 2D6 taking D6 mortals.

So yea, if you're taking Gallants there are compelling reasons IMO to go Imperial, but for shooting Knights Mechanicus is where it's at.

The key here is you’re running Terryn which is a good house. Sure you’re making use of what imperial has to offer because you are running Terryn, but you’re having success because Terryn is good not because imperial is good. The fact of matter is a 5+++ against mortal wounds, ad-mech synergy, and bringing a knight back up to a full bracket is just too good for imperial to comepete with. You’re not wrong for running Terryn, but the poster I replied to was asking about Mortan which is IMO a different case.

Salt donkey wrote:

 Horst wrote:

Salt donkey wrote:
While I do like the stratagem and warlord trait, I have a couple of problems with Mortan. The first is that the tradition is pretty much a strictly worse version of krast’s (re-rolling to hit is almost always better than adding +1). The second is that mortan’s relic might as well not exist (you don’t want an upgraded chainsword when paragon gauntlet already exist, and I don’t even use paragon gauntlet). Finally, Morton is imperial and we all know that being being mechanicus fat is better than being imperial.

If you really value the stratagem and warlord trait these downsides might be worth bearing, but I myself am not willing to give up the advantages ta house like krast has (headsman mark, better tradition, mechanicus) for them.

Mechanicus is pretty good, but I'm really enjoying running a pair of Terryn Gallants with my Guard list Everyone plays Mechanicus Knights, so the Imperial Gallants have a few tricks people just don't expect. I'm running one with the normal Ion Bulwark, so I can rotate Ion Shields, and I can outflank the other. Effectively this means you don't have a "softer" Knight to shoot at, since the outflanking one gets Landstrider w/ House Terryn, so for a charge roll I just need a 7 on 3D6 pick highest. The Fight Twice stratagem for Terryn is also great if you MUST kill something, and Valiant Last Stand is much better than Noble Sacrifice against enemy characters or scary units, since a fully degraded Gallant hits on a 4+ anyway, and you can focus all those attacks on a single target instead of everything in 2D6 taking D6 mortals.

So yea, if you're taking Gallants there are compelling reasons IMO to go Imperial, but for shooting Knights Mechanicus is where it's at.

The key here is you’re running Terryn which is a good house. Sure you’re making use of what imperial has to offer because you are running Terryn, but you’re having success because Terryn is good not because imperial is good. The fact of matter is a 5+++ against mortal wounds, ad-mech synergy, and bringing a knight back up to a full bracket is just too good for imperial to comepete with. You’re not wrong for running Terryn, but the poster I replied to was asking about Mortan which is IMO a different case.

Most of the stratagems I mentioned though would be effective on any Imperial house, the only Terryn-specific things were the Fight Twice stratagem and the 3D6 drop lowest charge (which are admittedly good). All Imperial Houses get access to the Valiant Last Stand and Outflank stratagems.

I could see a Hawkshroud Valiant being useful as well, with the ability to overwatch with it's Conflagration Cannon (which you'd upgrade to Traitor's Pyre) against enemy units charging friendly units near it. Using any Imperial House for a Valiant is probably a pretty good idea, since you can outflank it, and it really helps to negate it's biggest weakness, that it's all short ranged firepower. If you're playing mostly Catachan Guard, turn 1 you could move up and get into position to charge on turn 2, and turn 2 the Valiant could show up right in the enemy's front lines as well without having been shot at at all. Pretty neat. You could use a Mortan Valiant to do this as well (and the -1 to hit would be pretty useful, since if you're within 18" you're already gonna have a bad time) and then use the Mortan stratagem on the Helverins to work to eliminate tough to hit Eldar units too.

 Horst wrote:


Most of the stratagems I mentioned though would be effective on any Imperial house, the only Terryn-specific things were the Fight Twice stratagem and the 3D6 drop lowest charge (which are admittedly good). All Imperial Houses get access to the Valiant Last Stand and Outflank stratagems.

I could see a Hawkshroud Valiant being useful as well, with the ability to overwatch with it's Conflagration Cannon (which you'd upgrade to Traitor's Pyre) against enemy units charging friendly units near it. Using any Imperial House for a Valiant is probably a pretty good idea, since you can outflank it, and it really helps to negate it's biggest weakness, that it's all short ranged firepower. If you're playing mostly Catachan Guard, turn 1 you could move up and get into position to charge on turn 2, and turn 2 the Valiant could show up right in the enemy's front lines as well without having been shot at at all. Pretty neat. You could use a Mortan Valiant to do this as well (and the -1 to hit would be pretty useful, since if you're within 18" you're already gonna have a bad time) and then use the Mortan stratagem on the Helverins to work to eliminate tough to hit Eldar units too.

So I’m going to have be that guy who rains on other people’s fun here. To put it blunty, the strategies you’re mentioning are excellent at mid-tier tournament tables and in some very specific matchups, but ultimately fall apart once you are forced to play many meta lists.

Let’s start with the outflank stratagem. I think you’ve done a good job of mentioning it’s postives, so I’m going to focus on its negatives. First is that cost 3 CP. That’s not so much of problem for you since you’re running guard as your primary faction, but for anyone else that’s a huge hit. My list for example starts with 15 CP, but 3 CP is simply too expansive for me to consider for 1 stratagem. I supsect many other knights players are in similar positions (as knights as a faction devour CP) so I think you’re underestimating the cost of stratagem for many other players.

That aside I’m still of the opinion the stratagem itself hurts you more than it helps you against most strong opponents.There are 2 main reasons for this. The first and biggest one is that your given up first turn pressure with a 352+ Point model when you decide to outflank them: That is a huge cost for any army, and knights in particular feel it hard. The second is that canny opponents with the right list can and will screen their flanks in such a way that your knight only shows up where you opponents want them to.

Allow me to illustrate why these are such big problems with some recent game examples. Recently I played my buddy who was running a Castellan. I ran 2 crusaders and a gallant agisnt him. During the first turn my buddy had to make a tough decision on which knights he wanted to focus down first with his Castellan, as all 3 knights were going to be major problems for him next turn. Had I outflanked my gallant, my buddy’s choices suddenly become a heck of a lot easier, as now he knows that he as at least a full turn of not having to deal with gallant, and therefore can shoot where he please with Castellan. After this he can use his guard elements to ensure my gallant isn’t anywhere near his Castellan when it walks on from outflank. So by outflanking I would have essentially turned the opening turn from a 2000 vs 2000 point game, into a 1648 vs 2000 point game.

As for the fight when you die stratagem goes, I don’t hate it just because it requires you to fight at your worse profile, I mostly hate it because it requires your knight dying in CC to use. Sure people might be willing to charge your crusader, but most lists I know would try to avoid fighting a gallant in CC if given the choice. This stratagem isn’t useless, but it’s pretty situational.

So there you have it. I suppose some guard list might want a solo gallant who outflanks, but even guard don’t love having to leave 352 points out for a whole turn. As far as a hawkshroud valiant outflanking goes.... yeah I can’t think of a competitive situation where I’d be ok leaving a 600 point model in reserves, not when I can play a Castellan who makes always makes it presence felt turn one.

For a local beer and pretzels game or league game, go wild with these stratagems. But if you want to win a tournament with knights, I’d stick with a mechanicus households unless you’re running triple gallants.

You actually cannot outflank a Valiant, anyway. The stratagem doesn't allow Dominus class to do that.

Short IK tournament report out. Had a local RTT this weekend and my house Raven walked. It was an exalted court with a lancer leading a castellan and a warden with two warglaives. The last points were a barebones skitarii battalion.

First game was against a haywire heavy DE list with blobs of grotesques and talos I got to turn 6 but was ultimately tabled. The haywire and coven invuls were just too much ultimately.

Second game was against another knight list with 3 regular knight, a castellan, and the loyal 32. I won but it was close as we traded knights turn for turn. Highlight was one turn charge against his castellan with my lancer and one shotting him in the face. Great opponent and fun game.

Last game was against a mixed SM and GK force. I went first and almost tabled everything he had down. However it was getting late and I had to concede the match as I had to go before he could bring his deep striking force in. Knights against Marines, especially primaris are just brutal. Fun part was he took the sons of Medusa chapter master who held off a knight in 1:1 with his freaking T6 and good saves.

Thoughts:

In a surprise to no one knight heavy lists are so rock paper scissors against other lists. Against the DE I think I did as good as I could have but it was the perfect list to beat me.

Against other knights the lancer really proved it's worth but the warden fell flat. If I keep the warden I'm thinking the paragon gauntlet may be necessary to keep him useful against other big units.

I'm going to drop the warglaives as they did nothing well and couldn't survive long enough to hold objectives and we're killed by both shooting and CC quite easily. Even the SM opponent downed one.

The graia skitarii we're solid despite being smaller than the loyal 32.

SevenSixTwoX39 wrote:
You actually cannot outflank a Valiant, anyway. The stratagem doesn't allow Dominus class to do that.

Thanks for pointing that out, I was considering picking one up to outflank, but not anymore.

Hey guys, just starting Knights. What do you think of this 1500 pt mono codex list? I took melta guns instead of stubbers because I had the points, not sure how else to fill in points


++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [73 PL, 1478pts, 6CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [3CP]

Gametype: Matched

Household Choice: House Raven, Questor Mechanicus

Use Beta Rules

+ Lord of War +

Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 184pts]
. Armiger Helverin: Meltagun

Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 184pts]
. Armiger Helverin: Meltagun

Knight Castellan [30 PL, 604pts]: Character (Knight Lance), Heirloom: Cawl's Wrath, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
. Two Siegebreaker Cannons and Two Shieldbreaker Missiles: 2x Shieldbreaker Missile, 2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon

Knight Crusader [25 PL, 506pts]: Ironstorm Missile Pod, Meltagun
. Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer
. Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber: Heavy Stubber, Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon

++ Total: [73 PL, 1478pts, 6CP] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 Billagio wrote:
Hey guys, just starting Knights. What do you think of this 1500 pt mono codex list? I took melta guns instead of stubbers because I had the points, not sure how else to fill in points


++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [73 PL, 1478pts, 6CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [3CP]

Gametype: Matched

Household Choice: House Raven, Questor Mechanicus

Use Beta Rules

+ Lord of War +

Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 184pts]
. Armiger Helverin: Meltagun

Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 184pts]
. Armiger Helverin: Meltagun

Knight Castellan [30 PL, 604pts]: Character (Knight Lance), Heirloom: Cawl's Wrath, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
. Two Siegebreaker Cannons and Two Shieldbreaker Missiles: 2x Shieldbreaker Missile, 2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon

Knight Crusader [25 PL, 506pts]: Ironstorm Missile Pod, Meltagun
. Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer
. Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber: Heavy Stubber, Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon

++ Total: [73 PL, 1478pts, 6CP] ++

Created with BattleScribe

You really need a 3rd big Knight, you can't really get away with just 6 CP. I also wouldn't take a Castellan in a mono-Knights list normally, especially a House Raven one... they really need to eat CP to be effective. At 1500 pts for mono-Knight, I'd probably just take 3x Crusaders.

I feel like a single Gallant does good work. Make use of Full Tilt and ruin someone's day.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I feel like a single Gallant does good work. Make use of Full Tilt and ruin someone's day.

I find most competitive lists can handle 1 knight per turn, but the rushing Gallant forces their target choice, also if it does make it or atleast close some exploding for MW can be epic against castle armies.
However it's a bit of a one trick pony, that can eat CP you don't have.

EDIT: Never mind, found the answer on page 90, it does work. Why is it like 20 pages apart from where the Household rules are discussed? Oh well.

Here's a rules question for you guys: does the <Freeblade> keyword replace the <Household> keyword in the same way that <Raven> does? I ask because I would like to know if I have, for example, two <Freeblade> models in a detachment with one having Landstrider, would they both be affected by it since the aura affects <Household> units? Does it affect only the Landstrider, both of them, or neither of them? What would the reasoning be? My interpretation of the RAW is that it would either affect all <Freeblade> units or none, and I have to imagine GW would not have intended for Freeblades with that trait to not be affected by it, but I need to be able to explain to my opponent why it works.

The codex is very clear. Replace all <House> references with Freeblade

So a Freeblade with Land Strider would affect other Freeblade knights.

I’m new to knights, so someone correct me if I’m wrong but if I want to bring a Castellan with AM allies I have to bring it in a super heavy detachment in order to get warlord traits and relics on it. In that case I’d have to take 2x helverins as well right?

 Billagio wrote:
I’m new to knights, so someone correct me if I’m wrong but if I want to bring a Castellan with AM allies I have to bring it in a super heavy detachment in order to get warlord traits and relics on it. In that case I’d have to take 2x helverins as well right?

You are wrong. That's ONLY for Household Traits-so Raven's Advance and shoot without penalty, Taranis' FNP, etc.

Relics and Warlord Traits you can give to them just fine in an Aux.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
I’m new to knights, so someone correct me if I’m wrong but if I want to bring a Castellan with AM allies I have to bring it in a super heavy detachment in order to get warlord traits and relics on it. In that case I’d have to take 2x helverins as well right?

You are wrong. That's ONLY for Household Traits-so Raven's Advance and shoot without penalty, Taranis' FNP, etc.

Relics and Warlord Traits you can give to them just fine in an Aux.

Hmmm weird. I thought that was the case but BattleScribe wasn’t letting me make the Castellan a Character without being in the Lance/Super Heavy detach

 Billagio wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
I’m new to knights, so someone correct me if I’m wrong but if I want to bring a Castellan with AM allies I have to bring it in a super heavy detachment in order to get warlord traits and relics on it. In that case I’d have to take 2x helverins as well right?

You are wrong. That's ONLY for Household Traits-so Raven's Advance and shoot without penalty, Taranis' FNP, etc.

Relics and Warlord Traits you can give to them just fine in an Aux.

Hmmm weird. I thought that was the case but BattleScribe wasn’t letting me make the Castellan a Character without being in the Lance/Super Heavy detach

Battlescribe ain't the Codex. And it's not been FAQ'd or Errata'd.

The Knight Lance rule is:

If your army is Battle-forged, select one model in each IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Super-heavy Detachment in your army. Each model you selected gains the CHARACTER keyword. However, the Command Benefit of each Imperial Knights Super-heavy Detachment is changed to ‘None’ unless it contains any combination of at least three QUESTORIS CLASS and/or DOMINUS CLASS units.

It says you can select a unit in a super heavy detachment... not a super heavy aux detachment. So if you want to make a Knight a character, there are two ways. Put it in a super heavy detachment with other Knights, or use the Exalted Court or Heirlooms of the Household stratagems to make it a character to give it traits / relics.

You probably want to do that anyway, if you're taking Knights + Astra Militarum the best play is to generally take your Warlord as a company commander with some sort of CP regen traits / relics, because you'll need them when playing Knights.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
I’m new to knights, so someone correct me if I’m wrong but if I want to bring a Castellan with AM allies I have to bring it in a super heavy detachment in order to get warlord traits and relics on it. In that case I’d have to take 2x helverins as well right?

You are wrong. That's ONLY for Household Traits-so Raven's Advance and shoot without penalty, Taranis' FNP, etc.

Relics and Warlord Traits you can give to them just fine in an Aux.

Hmmm weird. I thought that was the case but BattleScribe wasn’t letting me make the Castellan a Character without being in the Lance/Super Heavy detach

Battlescribe ain't the Codex. And it's not been FAQ'd or Errata'd.

Except knight lance rule is usable by super heavy detachment. Not super heavy aux detachment.

You get traits and relics to those by strategems.

 Billagio wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
I’m new to knights, so someone correct me if I’m wrong but if I want to bring a Castellan with AM allies I have to bring it in a super heavy detachment in order to get warlord traits and relics on it. In that case I’d have to take 2x helverins as well right?

You are wrong. That's ONLY for Household Traits-so Raven's Advance and shoot without penalty, Taranis' FNP, etc.

Relics and Warlord Traits you can give to them just fine in an Aux.

Hmmm weird. I thought that was the case but BattleScribe wasn’t letting me make the Castellan a Character without being in the Lance/Super Heavy detach

Add the extra relic and warlord trait option to the detachment in Battlescribe and you can do it.

The Aux Super Heavy detachment will give access to stratagems and both the extra relic and warlord trait stratagems give the Knight the Character keyword.

It doesn't work with making him your actual Warlord because he isn't a character by default so you wouldn't get a trait or relic.
For that you would need a Super Heavy Detachment so that the Knight Lance rule lets you make one a character.

 Ordana wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
I’m new to knights, so someone correct me if I’m wrong but if I want to bring a Castellan with AM allies I have to bring it in a super heavy detachment in order to get warlord traits and relics on it. In that case I’d have to take 2x helverins as well right?

You are wrong. That's ONLY for Household Traits-so Raven's Advance and shoot without penalty, Taranis' FNP, etc.

Relics and Warlord Traits you can give to them just fine in an Aux.

Hmmm weird. I thought that was the case but BattleScribe wasn’t letting me make the Castellan a Character without being in the Lance/Super Heavy detach

Add the extra relic and warlord trait option to the detachment in Battlescribe and you can do it.

The Aux Super Heavy detachment will give access to stratagems and both the extra relic and warlord trait stratagems give the Knight the Character keyword.

It doesn't work with making him your actual Warlord because he isn't a character by default so you wouldn't get a trait or relic.
For that you would need a Super Heavy Detachment so that the Knight Lance rule lets you make one a character.

Gotcha, so in a Aux detachment youll need to spend CP to give him a relic and trait?

 Billagio wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
I’m new to knights, so someone correct me if I’m wrong but if I want to bring a Castellan with AM allies I have to bring it in a super heavy detachment in order to get warlord traits and relics on it. In that case I’d have to take 2x helverins as well right?

You are wrong. That's ONLY for Household Traits-so Raven's Advance and shoot without penalty, Taranis' FNP, etc.

Relics and Warlord Traits you can give to them just fine in an Aux.

Hmmm weird. I thought that was the case but BattleScribe wasn’t letting me make the Castellan a Character without being in the Lance/Super Heavy detach

Add the extra relic and warlord trait option to the detachment in Battlescribe and you can do it.

The Aux Super Heavy detachment will give access to stratagems and both the extra relic and warlord trait stratagems give the Knight the Character keyword.

It doesn't work with making him your actual Warlord because he isn't a character by default so you wouldn't get a trait or relic.
For that you would need a Super Heavy Detachment so that the Knight Lance rule lets you make one a character.

Gotcha, so in a Aux detachment youll need to spend CP to give him a relic and trait?

correct, no way around that.

Has anyone had any success with a triple Gallant list? I'm thinking of running a Terryn detachment of 3x Gallants, alongside a Loyal 32 + Mortars Battalion, and a Tank Commander supreme command for ranged fire support. Has anyone played something like this?

Can anyone compare the following math hammer. Im trying to figure it out on dice hammer but don't think its right.
I want to compare a castellan house raven with the reroll 1s stratagem

vs

Castellan house krast with the Headsmark relic. +2 damage to all weapons that target a model with Titanic Keyword.

Basically, im trying to see if the +2 damage is more than reroll all the 1s.

both targets are shooting at an enemy catellan with rotate ion sheilds so 3++

 Dynas wrote:
Can anyone compare the following math hammer. Im trying to figure it out on dice hammer but don't think its right.
I want to compare a castellan house raven with the reroll 1s stratagem

vs

Castellan house krast with the Headsmark relic. +2 damage to all weapons that target a model with Titanic Keyword.

Basically, im trying to see if the +2 damage is more than reroll all the 1s.

both targets are shooting at an enemy catellan with rotate ion sheilds so 3++

Does the Raven Castellan have Cawl's Wrath?

A Krast Castellan with Headsman's Mark does about 80% as much damage to another knight or Titanic unit as a Raven Castellan with Cawl's Wrath does. Against any other target the Raven Castellan does vastly more damage.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
Can anyone compare the following math hammer. Im trying to figure it out on dice hammer but don't think its right.
I want to compare a castellan house raven with the reroll 1s stratagem

vs

Castellan house krast with the Headsmark relic. +2 damage to all weapons that target a model with Titanic Keyword.

Basically, im trying to see if the +2 damage is more than reroll all the 1s.

both targets are shooting at an enemy catellan with rotate ion sheilds so 3++

Does the Raven Castellan have Cawl's Wrath?

Yes, Raven has Cawls, assume overcharged and Reroll 1 strat


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SevenSixTwoX39 wrote:
A Krast Castellan with Headsman's Mark does about 80% as much damage to another knight or Titanic unit as a Raven Castellan with Cawl's Wrath does. Against any other target the Raven Castellan does vastly more damage.

I am looking for the math hammer for it? can you provide that?

Assuming firing two Twin Siegebreakers, Cawl's Wrath/Plasma Decimator, and Volcano Lance at a 3++ Castellan. Shieldbreaker goes into something else, and Meltas are out of range.

Raven Castellan

28/3 Siegebreaker shots
196/27 hits
686/243 wounds
686/729 unsaved
4,802/2,187 damage
2.20 damage

47/6 Cawl's Wrath shots
329/54 hits
2,303/486 wounds
2,303/1,458 unsaved
2,303/486 damage
4.74 damage

47/12 Volcano Lance Shots
329/108 hits
658/243 wounds
658/729 unsaved
4,606/729 damage
6.32 damage

Total damage:
13.26

Krast Castellan

8 Siegebreaker shots
16/3 hits
16/9 wounds
16/27 unsaved
64/27 damage
2.37 damage

7 Plasma Decimator shots
14/3 hits
7/3 wounds
7/9 unsaved
28/9 damage
3.11 damage

7/2 Volcano Lance shots
7/3 hits
56/27 wounds
56/81 unsaved
448/81 damage
5.53 damage

Total damage:
11.01