Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 gorgon wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

If Sanders would have won (he would have). Dems shunting Sanders is a direct cause of their defeat.

That math doesn't fly.

HRC won the noms handily, even without the super delegates. But Sanders would have won the general??

The number of laughably uninformed reactionary voters in the US is not that high, is it?

While Sanders may have had some gains in some areas, they probably would have been offset by losses in others, like wealthy moderate suburbs. Clinton won counties like mine because she came off as the moderate, sane candidate. Bernie would not have had that contrast...he simply would have been the crazy guy on the other side who wants to raise your taxes, not cut them.

Swapping Clinton for Sanders is *NOT* a case of addition without subtraction.

His drug policies alone would have won it for him.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Why should he not have support? He's doing a good job. LOL. Look at the economy / unemployment rates / growth / ect. By every measure of what previous presidents have been measured. He is doing a good job.

Hrm, he's only been in office 18 months. Unemployment is trending on the same line it's been on for the last 8 years, when we look at the Dow Jones Industrial Average, we again see it generally trending on the same line for the last 8 years, while GDP growth is similarly in line with that trend. Ascribing anything Trump has done to them is probably misplaced.

In the meantime, we've just kicked off trade wars with just about every major economic partner we have in the last couple of months.

I can tell you that, working for a major industrial distributor, having been slammed with a deluge of vendor price increases, costs are going to be rising on just about everything, but especially anything containing metal.

In other news, the US population is more socially and politically divided by ever and the President is intentionally driving that for his personal gain, the trending news stories are about the US running toddler internment camps and Tax cuts being shoved wholesale into stock buybacks almost exclusively for the benefit of management, and the American Empire is beginning to fracture and other political entities are rising as the world generally sees US influence waning and becoming dramatically less reliable.

LOL - it's a secondary investigation after the first investigation turned up nothing. It's an investigation that never even should have been started. How long can it possibly take to find evidence of collusion prosecutor in court - when you have these kinds of resources at your disposal.

*ahem*



Cases and investigations like these take years. Mueller is moving quickly by comparison. The above image is from December, but still holds pretty solid, if this is anything remotely like past investigations, it's going to go on for quite a while yet.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

Lock her up!

Honestly, this would explain a lot.

 Spinner wrote:
Honestly, this would explain a lot.

Satire makes the unbearable, bearable.

 Xenomancers wrote:


Now I am not saying that an investigation shouldn't exist in the interest of making the nation less susceptible to foreign cyber manipulation on social media. That is not what this is though. It's primary focus in the first couple of months should have been to clear Trump as he is the POTUS. It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

The irony here, is that if Trump just sat on his hands and stayed quiet, it would have been over quickly, and he would most likely have been cleared. His lack of forethought, loud mouth, and twitter account is ultimately what got us to where we are today, and is a huge part of what makes him look guilty.

Any possible attempt to "cheat" your way into our nations highest office should be investigated to the fullest amount possible, in order to both bring justice to all that are deserving of it, and to learn how to prevent this from happening in the future. If Mueller found something incriminating, hes not going to reveal it until he is positive that everything is in the open. You don't cut out the first tumor you see and walk away, you keep studying until you know how far the cancer has spread.

Like I said, maybe Trump is clean as far as this incident goes. If he is, then the issue is shut, once and for all.

 feeder wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

Lock her up!

Touche. While I thought that was pretty unpresidential behavior from trump there. It was more than erased by remembering Benghazi.

Bengazi? The investigation where huge numbers of the population thought she would be found guilty but she was cleared of all wrong doing?

That Bengazi?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

Lock her up!

Touche. While I thought that was pretty unpresidential behavior from trump there. It was more than erased by remembering Benghazi.

The Benghazi investigations (7 separate ones, if I remember correctly), that lead to nothing to pin on former Secretary of State Clinton?

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Now I am not saying that an investigation shouldn't exist in the interest of making the nation less susceptible to foreign cyber manipulation on social media. That is not what this is though. It's primary focus in the first couple of months should have been to clear Trump as he is the POTUS. It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

The irony here, is that if Trump just sat on his hands and stayed quiet, it would have been over quickly, and he would most likely have been cleared. His lack of forethought, loud mouth, and twitter account is ultimately what got us to where we are today, and is a huge part of what makes him look guilty.

Any possible attempt to "cheat" your way into our nations highest office should be investigated to the fullest amount possible, in order to both bring justice to all that are deserving of it, and to learn how to prevent this from happening in the future. If Mueller found something incriminating, hes not going to reveal it until he is positive that everything is in the open. You don't cut out the first tumor you see and walk away, you keep studying until you know how far the cancer has spread.

Like I said, maybe Trump is clean as far as this incident goes. If he is, then the issue is shut, once and for all.

You know very well that Trump can't keep his mouth shut. His nature is always to attack when threatened. Can you honestly blame him? 2 Years of constant investigation producing nothing linking him in any kind of conspiracy. This is the CIA/DOJ/FBI - they have unlimited resources....If they havn't found anything incriminating yet - they never will.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Now I am not saying that an investigation shouldn't exist in the interest of making the nation less susceptible to foreign cyber manipulation on social media. That is not what this is though. It's primary focus in the first couple of months should have been to clear Trump as he is the POTUS. It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

The irony here, is that if Trump just sat on his hands and stayed quiet, it would have been over quickly, and he would most likely have been cleared. His lack of forethought, loud mouth, and twitter account is ultimately what got us to where we are today, and is a huge part of what makes him look guilty.

Any possible attempt to "cheat" your way into our nations highest office should be investigated to the fullest amount possible, in order to both bring justice to all that are deserving of it, and to learn how to prevent this from happening in the future. If Mueller found something incriminating, hes not going to reveal it until he is positive that everything is in the open. You don't cut out the first tumor you see and walk away, you keep studying until you know how far the cancer has spread.

Like I said, maybe Trump is clean as far as this incident goes. If he is, then the issue is shut, once and for all.

You know very well that Trump can't keep his mouth shut. His nature is always to attack when threatened. Can you honestly blame him? 2 Years of constant investigation producing nothing linking him in any kind of conspiracy. This is the CIA/DOJ/FBI - they have unlimited resources....If they havn't found anything incriminating yet - they never will.

You're spilling kool-aid on the carpet mate, other people have already gone over how that's factually incorrect and how long comparable investigations have gone on. It's a refuted talking point.

Steelmage99 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

Lock her up!

Touche. While I thought that was pretty unpresidential behavior from trump there. It was more than erased by remembering Benghazi.

The Benghazi investigations (7 separate ones, if I remember correctly), that lead to nothing to pin on former Secretary of State Clinton?

The administration lied to the US people to escape culpability for the events leading up to the catastrophe. Criminal wrong doing...no - that is kind of hard to prove when everyone is lying to stay out of prison. Mistakes made - ofc? Gross negligence - yep? What difference does it make? Simple - anyone in charge of this fiasco which cost American lives shouldn't even be in the consideration for the highest office in the land.

Steelmage99 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

Lock her up!

Touche. While I thought that was pretty unpresidential behavior from trump there. It was more than erased by remembering Benghazi.

The Benghazi investigations (7 separate ones, if I remember correctly), that lead to nothing to pin on former Secretary of State Clinton?

No, no the other Benghazi one where she was totally found guilty of many many heinous crime but then the Liberal Deep State made it go away. Alex Jones covered it in depth, didn't you see it?

Edit: ninja'd with hilarious results.

 ScarletRose wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Now I am not saying that an investigation shouldn't exist in the interest of making the nation less susceptible to foreign cyber manipulation on social media. That is not what this is though. It's primary focus in the first couple of months should have been to clear Trump as he is the POTUS. It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

The irony here, is that if Trump just sat on his hands and stayed quiet, it would have been over quickly, and he would most likely have been cleared. His lack of forethought, loud mouth, and twitter account is ultimately what got us to where we are today, and is a huge part of what makes him look guilty.

Any possible attempt to "cheat" your way into our nations highest office should be investigated to the fullest amount possible, in order to both bring justice to all that are deserving of it, and to learn how to prevent this from happening in the future. If Mueller found something incriminating, hes not going to reveal it until he is positive that everything is in the open. You don't cut out the first tumor you see and walk away, you keep studying until you know how far the cancer has spread.

Like I said, maybe Trump is clean as far as this incident goes. If he is, then the issue is shut, once and for all.

You know very well that Trump can't keep his mouth shut. His nature is always to attack when threatened. Can you honestly blame him? 2 Years of constant investigation producing nothing linking him in any kind of conspiracy. This is the CIA/DOJ/FBI - they have unlimited resources....If they havn't found anything incriminating yet - they never will.

You're spilling kool-aid on the carpet mate, other people have already gone over how that's factually incorrect and how long comparable investigations have gone on. It's a refuted talking point.

Freaking nonsense man...everything is faster today. Computers are faster. Databases are faster. It's a joke to compare 20-30 years ago to today in regards to data collection.

It's also completely disingenuous to compare this situation to any of those. None of those scandals had any sense of urgency to them - nothing like this where we could possibly have a man leading the country who is in cahoots with the Russians. LOL. Some clown purgering himself in court hardly has the same relevance.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Now I am not saying that an investigation shouldn't exist in the interest of making the nation less susceptible to foreign cyber manipulation on social media. That is not what this is though. It's primary focus in the first couple of months should have been to clear Trump as he is the POTUS. It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

The irony here, is that if Trump just sat on his hands and stayed quiet, it would have been over quickly, and he would most likely have been cleared. His lack of forethought, loud mouth, and twitter account is ultimately what got us to where we are today, and is a huge part of what makes him look guilty.

Any possible attempt to "cheat" your way into our nations highest office should be investigated to the fullest amount possible, in order to both bring justice to all that are deserving of it, and to learn how to prevent this from happening in the future. If Mueller found something incriminating, hes not going to reveal it until he is positive that everything is in the open. You don't cut out the first tumor you see and walk away, you keep studying until you know how far the cancer has spread.

Like I said, maybe Trump is clean as far as this incident goes. If he is, then the issue is shut, once and for all.

You know very well that Trump can't keep his mouth shut. His nature is always to attack when threatened. Can you honestly blame him? 2 Years of constant investigation producing nothing linking him in any kind of conspiracy. This is the CIA/DOJ/FBI - they have unlimited resources....If they havn't found anything incriminating yet - they never will.

You're spilling kool-aid on the carpet mate, other people have already gone over how that's factually incorrect and how long comparable investigations have gone on. It's a refuted talking point.

Freaking nonsense man...everything is faster today. Computers are faster. Databases are faster. It's a joke to compare 20-30 years ago to today in regards to data collection.

Nonsense because cars are faster so must take-downs of criminal conspiracies? That's some irrefutable logic right there.

I think Mueller was a great pick of this work because he had prev. worked on investigating crime families and we're seeing the same approach - you don't go after the big boss straight out the gate because that will fail. You target the underlings, gather evidence over time and hopefully get some plea deals (like what's going on right now) to help solidify a case. Those things all take time because they involve human beings who aren't magically faster because they own smartphones.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Now I am not saying that an investigation shouldn't exist in the interest of making the nation less susceptible to foreign cyber manipulation on social media. That is not what this is though. It's primary focus in the first couple of months should have been to clear Trump as he is the POTUS. It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

The irony here, is that if Trump just sat on his hands and stayed quiet, it would have been over quickly, and he would most likely have been cleared. His lack of forethought, loud mouth, and twitter account is ultimately what got us to where we are today, and is a huge part of what makes him look guilty.

Any possible attempt to "cheat" your way into our nations highest office should be investigated to the fullest amount possible, in order to both bring justice to all that are deserving of it, and to learn how to prevent this from happening in the future. If Mueller found something incriminating, hes not going to reveal it until he is positive that everything is in the open. You don't cut out the first tumor you see and walk away, you keep studying until you know how far the cancer has spread.

Like I said, maybe Trump is clean as far as this incident goes. If he is, then the issue is shut, once and for all.

You know very well that Trump can't keep his mouth shut. His nature is always to attack when threatened. Can you honestly blame him? 2 Years of constant investigation producing nothing linking him in any kind of conspiracy. This is the CIA/DOJ/FBI - they have unlimited resources....If they havn't found anything incriminating yet - they never will.

You're spilling kool-aid on the carpet mate, other people have already gone over how that's factually incorrect and how long comparable investigations have gone on. It's a refuted talking point.

Freaking nonsense man...everything is faster today. Computers are faster. Databases are faster. It's a joke to compare 20-30 years ago to today in regards to data collection.

gak you better tell that to detectives and investigators now, they obviously must be milking all the time to get more money at the expense of the people being effected

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Now I am not saying that an investigation shouldn't exist in the interest of making the nation less susceptible to foreign cyber manipulation on social media. That is not what this is though. It's primary focus in the first couple of months should have been to clear Trump as he is the POTUS. It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

The irony here, is that if Trump just sat on his hands and stayed quiet, it would have been over quickly, and he would most likely have been cleared. His lack of forethought, loud mouth, and twitter account is ultimately what got us to where we are today, and is a huge part of what makes him look guilty.

Any possible attempt to "cheat" your way into our nations highest office should be investigated to the fullest amount possible, in order to both bring justice to all that are deserving of it, and to learn how to prevent this from happening in the future. If Mueller found something incriminating, hes not going to reveal it until he is positive that everything is in the open. You don't cut out the first tumor you see and walk away, you keep studying until you know how far the cancer has spread.

Like I said, maybe Trump is clean as far as this incident goes. If he is, then the issue is shut, once and for all.

You know very well that Trump can't keep his mouth shut. His nature is always to attack when threatened. Can you honestly blame him? 2 Years of constant investigation producing nothing linking him in any kind of conspiracy. This is the CIA/DOJ/FBI - they have unlimited resources....If they havn't found anything incriminating yet - they never will.

You're spilling kool-aid on the carpet mate, other people have already gone over how that's factually incorrect and how long comparable investigations have gone on. It's a refuted talking point.

Freaking nonsense man...everything is faster today. Computers are faster. Databases are faster. It's a joke to compare 20-30 years ago to today in regards to data collection.

And bad guys have another 30 years tech to hide their tracks. Faster computers and all.

The official investigation into the whole collusion bit started 14 months ago, so its hardly been 2+ years. Plus the slight setbacks of having to replace the director of the FBI because Trump fired him, and having to fold multiple investigations into this one because not only is there dirt on involved parties, but its collective dirt in the sense they are all involved in this as well.

Edit: Grammar

Aaaaaand Scott Pruitt is gone.

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Now I am not saying that an investigation shouldn't exist in the interest of making the nation less susceptible to foreign cyber manipulation on social media. That is not what this is though. It's primary focus in the first couple of months should have been to clear Trump as he is the POTUS. It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

The irony here, is that if Trump just sat on his hands and stayed quiet, it would have been over quickly, and he would most likely have been cleared. His lack of forethought, loud mouth, and twitter account is ultimately what got us to where we are today, and is a huge part of what makes him look guilty.

Any possible attempt to "cheat" your way into our nations highest office should be investigated to the fullest amount possible, in order to both bring justice to all that are deserving of it, and to learn how to prevent this from happening in the future. If Mueller found something incriminating, hes not going to reveal it until he is positive that everything is in the open. You don't cut out the first tumor you see and walk away, you keep studying until you know how far the cancer has spread.

Like I said, maybe Trump is clean as far as this incident goes. If he is, then the issue is shut, once and for all.

You know very well that Trump can't keep his mouth shut. His nature is always to attack when threatened. Can you honestly blame him? 2 Years of constant investigation producing nothing linking him in any kind of conspiracy. This is the CIA/DOJ/FBI - they have unlimited resources....If they havn't found anything incriminating yet - they never will.

You're spilling kool-aid on the carpet mate, other people have already gone over how that's factually incorrect and how long comparable investigations have gone on. It's a refuted talking point.

Freaking nonsense man...everything is faster today. Computers are faster. Databases are faster. It's a joke to compare 20-30 years ago to today in regards to data collection.

And bad guys have another 30 years tech to hide their tracks. Faster computers and all.

The official investigation into the whole collusion bit started 14 months ago, so its hardly been 2+ years. Plus the slight setbacks of having to replace the director of the FBI because Trump fired him, and having to fold multiple investigations into this one because not only is there dirt on involved parties, but its collective dirt in the sense they are all involved in this as well.

Edit: Grammar

There were investigations right away once this started. FBI and CIA alike and this was when the issue was hot - which is when you are going to solve a crime - not years after. They found evidence of what we already known. Plus from what we know - there is no reason to assume anything else. Russia attacked with facebook ads, trolls on fourms, hacking emails, and spreading false information. They had no reason to directly correspond with the trump campaign. Just think about how many possible leaks that could create to expose them? Russian aren't stupid - they never were.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Now I am not saying that an investigation shouldn't exist in the interest of making the nation less susceptible to foreign cyber manipulation on social media. That is not what this is though. It's primary focus in the first couple of months should have been to clear Trump as he is the POTUS. It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

The irony here, is that if Trump just sat on his hands and stayed quiet, it would have been over quickly, and he would most likely have been cleared. His lack of forethought, loud mouth, and twitter account is ultimately what got us to where we are today, and is a huge part of what makes him look guilty.

Any possible attempt to "cheat" your way into our nations highest office should be investigated to the fullest amount possible, in order to both bring justice to all that are deserving of it, and to learn how to prevent this from happening in the future. If Mueller found something incriminating, hes not going to reveal it until he is positive that everything is in the open. You don't cut out the first tumor you see and walk away, you keep studying until you know how far the cancer has spread.

Like I said, maybe Trump is clean as far as this incident goes. If he is, then the issue is shut, once and for all.

You know very well that Trump can't keep his mouth shut. His nature is always to attack when threatened. Can you honestly blame him? 2 Years of constant investigation producing nothing linking him in any kind of conspiracy. This is the CIA/DOJ/FBI - they have unlimited resources....If they havn't found anything incriminating yet - they never will.

You're spilling kool-aid on the carpet mate, other people have already gone over how that's factually incorrect and how long comparable investigations have gone on. It's a refuted talking point.

Freaking nonsense man...everything is faster today. Computers are faster. Databases are faster. It's a joke to compare 20-30 years ago to today in regards to data collection.

And bad guys have another 30 years tech to hide their tracks. Faster computers and all.

The official investigation into the whole collusion bit started 14 months ago, so its hardly been 2+ years. Plus the slight setbacks of having to replace the director of the FBI because Trump fired him, and having to fold multiple investigations into this one because not only is there dirt on involved parties, but its collective dirt in the sense they are all involved in this as well.

Edit: Grammar

There were investigations right away once this started. FBI and CIA alike and this was when the issue was hot - which is when you are going to solve a crime - not years after. They found evidence of what we already known. Plus from what we know - there is no reason to assume anything else. Russia attacked with facebook ads, trolls on fourms, hacking emails, and spreading false information. They had no reason to directly correspond with the trump campaign. Just think about how many possible leaks that could create to expose them? Russian aren't stupid - they never were.

And yet, basically everyone on the trump campaign had Russian contacts, accepted Russian money, or were involved in other shady gak (such as trying to set up secret meetings with Russians). You're also glossing over the actual hacking of the voting system (i.e. voter registration) in your list of what Russians did, along with the rallies they organized.

On top of that, how do you know there's nothing? Because you haven't personally been briefed by Mueller? Because His investigation isn't a fething sieve like trump's administration when it comes to information?

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Aaaaaand Scott Pruitt is gone.

On one hand, that's great news. On the other, that means he's going back to Oklahoma.

Sorry, d-usa.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

I'm shocked it took so long for Pruitt to get the boot.

The Russians were never stupid? Certainpy they were never caught doing something like this before.

Its not like somebody posted that exact thing happening in the 1980s earlier in the thread. No way. Russia is too smart to get caught.

Stop drinking the koolaid

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Aaaaaand Scott Pruitt is gone.

One more and this admin will be at a fully 50% attrition rate for everyone who started upon inauguration 14 months ago. What an absolute fething clown show.

 Wolfblade wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Now I am not saying that an investigation shouldn't exist in the interest of making the nation less susceptible to foreign cyber manipulation on social media. That is not what this is though. It's primary focus in the first couple of months should have been to clear Trump as he is the POTUS. It is extremely unhealthy to conduct an investigation like this with the looming assumption by huge numbers of the population that Trump is going to be found guilty.

The irony here, is that if Trump just sat on his hands and stayed quiet, it would have been over quickly, and he would most likely have been cleared. His lack of forethought, loud mouth, and twitter account is ultimately what got us to where we are today, and is a huge part of what makes him look guilty.

Any possible attempt to "cheat" your way into our nations highest office should be investigated to the fullest amount possible, in order to both bring justice to all that are deserving of it, and to learn how to prevent this from happening in the future. If Mueller found something incriminating, hes not going to reveal it until he is positive that everything is in the open. You don't cut out the first tumor you see and walk away, you keep studying until you know how far the cancer has spread.

Like I said, maybe Trump is clean as far as this incident goes. If he is, then the issue is shut, once and for all.

You know very well that Trump can't keep his mouth shut. His nature is always to attack when threatened. Can you honestly blame him? 2 Years of constant investigation producing nothing linking him in any kind of conspiracy. This is the CIA/DOJ/FBI - they have unlimited resources....If they havn't found anything incriminating yet - they never will.

You're spilling kool-aid on the carpet mate, other people have already gone over how that's factually incorrect and how long comparable investigations have gone on. It's a refuted talking point.

Freaking nonsense man...everything is faster today. Computers are faster. Databases are faster. It's a joke to compare 20-30 years ago to today in regards to data collection.

And bad guys have another 30 years tech to hide their tracks. Faster computers and all.

The official investigation into the whole collusion bit started 14 months ago, so its hardly been 2+ years. Plus the slight setbacks of having to replace the director of the FBI because Trump fired him, and having to fold multiple investigations into this one because not only is there dirt on involved parties, but its collective dirt in the sense they are all involved in this as well.

Edit: Grammar

There were investigations right away once this started. FBI and CIA alike and this was when the issue was hot - which is when you are going to solve a crime - not years after. They found evidence of what we already known. Plus from what we know - there is no reason to assume anything else. Russia attacked with facebook ads, trolls on fourms, hacking emails, and spreading false information. They had no reason to directly correspond with the trump campaign. Just think about how many possible leaks that could create to expose them? Russian aren't stupid - they never were.

And yet, basically everyone on the trump campaign had Russian contacts, accepted Russian money, or were involved in other shady gak (such as trying to set up secret meetings with Russians). You're also glossing over the actual hacking of the voting system (i.e. voter registration) in your list of what Russians did, along with the rallies they organized.

On top of that, how do you know there's nothing? Because you haven't personally been briefed by Mueller? Because His investigation isn't a fething sieve like trump's administration when it comes to information?

I hadn't heard of any voter registration interference. Were there people that actually couldn't vote because of it? Of so that is very serious. In fact it's all the dems should talk about - it sounds like BS though - prove me wrong. It's absolutely insane to suggest that people in the trump campaign have accepted money from Russians and they aren't already in jail or at this point - or spilled the beans on the whole operation if their was one. The truth is they have no evidence or it would be presented to the people - there is 0 reason to keep this kind of evidence from the people because all it would do is cause more people to spill beans to avoid jail time (once everyone knew the jig was up). Also - having contacts with Russians is not illegal or even shady. Americans can talk and have meetings with who ever the feth they want. Heck I've even corresponded with some Chinese people - LOCK ME UP RIGHT NOW.

 Easy E wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


They are desperate, they are wretched, and it's high time the American people put them out of their misery. It would be good for the USA if the GOP collapsed and a true Conservative party replaced them.

That is the problem. Many of the American people love them for the very reason you say they are hollowed out.

If you believe in Deomcracy, that is part of the price you pay. The Greeks felt that Deomcracy had two forms, the first was positive and represented the people voting on behalf of their own enlightened self-interests. The bad side was people voting emotion filled mod mentality.The problem is, when you re in the belly of the Democraatic beast, it is not easy to tell which side of the line you are standing on; the good or the bad.

The question is, what institutions are in place to lead tot he end of "Hollowed Out" parties? I do not know the answer to this question.

Our parties in the UK are equally as bad. It seems to be a trend across the Western world.

Personally, I think the main problem with US politics is that money has corrupted and corroded everything it has touched. Secondly, I think a lot of parties have lost their raison d'etre. The left parties I can understand, because they've never been the same since the Berlin wall came down.

But the right? People blame demographics and the decline of the white, middle-aged man, but fiscal prudence is fiscal prudence in any day and age.

The GOP have signed up to crony capitalism, and have abandoned the small to medium sized business which were their backbone for a long, long time...

 gorgon wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

If Sanders would have won (he would have). Dems shunting Sanders is a direct cause of their defeat.

That math doesn't fly.

HRC won the noms handily, even without the super delegates. But Sanders would have won the general??

The number of laughably uninformed reactionary voters in the US is not that high, is it?

While Sanders may have had some gains in some areas, they probably would have been offset by losses in others, like wealthy moderate suburbs. Clinton won counties like mine because she came off as the moderate, sane candidate. Bernie would not have had that contrast...he simply would have been the crazy guy on the other side who wants to raise your taxes, not cut them.

Swapping Clinton for Sanders is *NOT* a case of addition without subtraction.

The addition would, however, have been larger than the subtraction. Wealthy "moderate" suburbs aren't a very large segment of the population. It's just that other demographics have been increasingly locked out of mattering or voting altogether.

 feeder wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Aaaaaand Scott Pruitt is gone.

One more and this admin will be at a fully 50% attrition rate for everyone who started upon inauguration 14 months ago. What an absolute fething clown show.

Trump can't appoint people very well. This is where his lack of political experience really shows.

 feeder wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Aaaaaand Scott Pruitt is gone.

One more and this admin will be at a fully 50% attrition rate for everyone who started upon inauguration 14 months ago. What an absolute fething clown show.

Yeah, we're getting into General Grant territory, but at least Grant won the civil war and saved his nation.

Rosebuddy wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

If Sanders would have won (he would have). Dems shunting Sanders is a direct cause of their defeat.

That math doesn't fly.

HRC won the noms handily, even without the super delegates. But Sanders would have won the general??

The number of laughably uninformed reactionary voters in the US is not that high, is it?

While Sanders may have had some gains in some areas, they probably would have been offset by losses in others, like wealthy moderate suburbs. Clinton won counties like mine because she came off as the moderate, sane candidate. Bernie would not have had that contrast...he simply would have been the crazy guy on the other side who wants to raise your taxes, not cut them.

Swapping Clinton for Sanders is *NOT* a case of addition without subtraction.

The addition would, however, have been larger than the subtraction. Wealthy "moderate" suburbs aren't a very large segment of the population. It's just that other demographics have been increasingly locked out of mattering or voting altogether.

Yeah but how many Americans...Smoke pot?