US & NA Politics Thread

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**skyth**

The biggest problem with health care in the US is that we are expected to get access to health care (via health insurance) from our job. the problem is if you get sick, you lose your job, and thus access to affordable health care.

But we won't have health care provided by the government because the health insurance companies pay too much in bribes to lawmakers to keep that from happening.

**Xenomancers**

Disciple of Fate wrote:
But if US healthcare is so great why do Americans leaving the US to get healthcare outnumber people coming into the US by 2 to 1? The reasons that the US has some excellent healthcare at the very top of the system are pretty varied, but sadly unless you're quite wealthy you will never see the type of healthcare that foreigners fly in for.

That's news to me. Americans going to other countries to get healthcare...Sounds like BS. Have anything to back that up? What kind of procedures are we talking about here? Ones that are illegal here in the states or something?

**Vaktathi**

Xenomancers wrote:

Also - forgive me for being blunt but if European health care was so good. There wouldn't be so many people from other countries around the world coming here for surgeries.

When you see this happen, in the overwhelmingly vast majority of instances, its one of the below 3.

A: they're from a nation with far worse healthcare than either Europe or the US

B: They're after a treatment or procedure that isnt approved where they live.

C: theyre megawealthy and are being treated at places 99.999% of Americans dont have access to either.

The US absolutely has the best healthcare in the world...if you have a literal boatload of cash. When you look at health outcomes, things like life expectancy, maternal death rates, etc for an average member of society, these are no so great in the US relative to other developed nations, who also manage to spend dramatically less per capita in providing superior results.

**skyth**

Xenomancers wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:
But if US healthcare is so great why do Americans leaving the US to get healthcare outnumber people coming into the US by 2 to 1? The reasons that the US has some excellent healthcare at the very top of the system are pretty varied, but sadly unless you're quite wealthy you will never see the type of healthcare that foreigners fly in for.

That's news to me. Americans going to other countries to get healthcare...Sounds like BS. Have anything to back that up? What kind of procedures are we talking about here? Ones that are illegal here in the states or something?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/01/02/indias-hospitals-are-filling-up-with-desperate-americans/

A quick google search found that one.

**Xenomancers**

Vaktathi wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:

Also - forgive me for being blunt but if European health care was so good. There wouldn't be so many people from other countries around the world coming here for surgeries.
When you see this happen, in the overwhelmingly vast majority of instances, its one of the below 3.

A: they're from a nation with far worse healthcare than either Europe or the US

B: They're after a treatment or procedure that isnt approved where they live.

C: theyre megawealthy and are being treated at places 99.999% of Americans dont have access to either.

The US absolutely has the best healthcare in the world...if you have a literal boatload of cash. When you look at health outcomes, things like life expectancy, maternal death rates, etc for an average member of society, these are no so great in the US relative to other developed nations, who also manage to spend dramatically less per capita in providing superior results.

B. seems to be pretty serious though. If you need a procedure and can't get it. That is a big problem. It's not like we don't have the same problems here in the US with this ether though - Insurance doesn't want to pay - it isn't happening ether.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

skyth wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:
But if US healthcare is so great why do Americans leaving the US to get healthcare outnumber people coming into the US by 2 to 1? The reasons that the US has some excellent healthcare at the very top of the system are pretty varied, but sadly unless you're quite wealthy you will never see the type of healthcare that foreigners fly in for.

That's news to me. Americans going to other countries to get healthcare...Sounds like BS. Have anything to back that up? What kind of procedures are we talking about here? Ones that are illegal here in the states or something?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/01/02/indias-hospitals-are-filling-up-with-desperate-americans/

A quick google search found that one.

This is an anecdote.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/27-of-deaths-in-India-for-want-of-medical-attention/articleshow/49474537.cms

So I wonder if we should use India as a model here?

**Disciple of Fate**

Xenomancers wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:
But if US healthcare is so great why do Americans leaving the US to get healthcare outnumber people coming into the US by 2 to 1? The reasons that the US has some excellent healthcare at the very top of the system are pretty varied, but sadly unless you're quite wealthy you will never see the type of healthcare that foreigners fly in for.

That's news to me. Americans going to other countries to get healthcare...Sounds like BS. Have anything to back that up? What kind of procedures are we talking about here? Ones that are illegal here in the states or something?

Patients Beyond Borders estimates about 1.4 million Americans travel abroad each year for procedures such as this

Cosmetic surgery
Dentistry (general, restorative, cosmetic)
Cardiovascular (angioplasty, CABG, transplants)
Orthopedics (joint and spine; sports medicine)
Cancer (often high-acuity or last resort)
Reproductive (fertility, IVF, women's health)
Weight loss (LAP-BAND, gastric bypass)
Scans, tests, health screenings and second opinions

https://patientsbeyondborders.com/medical-tourism-statistics-facts
They are likely the closest you're going to get to a detailed list, he specializes in providing help for medical tourism. Most of the estimates for people going to the US for healthcare range between 600k and 800k a year.

**Xenomancers**

skyth wrote:
The biggest problem with health care in the US is that we are expected to get access to health care (via health insurance) from our job. the problem is if you get sick, you lose your job, and thus access to affordable health care.

But we won't have health care provided by the government because the health insurance companies pay too much in bribes to lawmakers to keep that from happening.

Yeah - this is true but is there a solution?

**d-usa**

From “Mexico will pay for the wall” to “I will shut down everything if the US doesn’t pay for my wall”.

What a shock.

**skyth**

Xenomancers wrote:
skyth wrote:
The biggest problem with health care in the US is that we are expected to get access to health care (via health insurance) from our job. the problem is if you get sick, you lose your job, and thus access to affordable health care.

But we won't have health care provided by the government because the health insurance companies pay too much in bribes to lawmakers to keep that from happening.

Yeah - this is true but is their a solution?

Not one I see passing any time soon. Medicare for all is probably the best one, but the amount of noise certain people will make about it combined with the lies that would be told about it means it's a non-starter for now.

**Galas**

Xenomancers wrote:

Also - forgive me for being blunt but if European health care was so good. There wouldn't be so many people from other countries around the world coming here for surgeries.

Maybe some of it is a myth - what do you think about your health are system.

Wha? People from all Europe comes to Spain, specially german, french and english elder people to get quality surgeries for the cheap compared with their own countries. And as AllmightWalrus said, the people that comes for surgery to the USA is people that can't find that kind of surgery on their country. And are normally very, very expensive surgeries, only for the rich. Or people that take a very big debt to try to save their lives with experimental surgeries, etc...

Xenomancers wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:
But if US healthcare is so great why do Americans leaving the US to get healthcare outnumber people coming into the US by 2 to 1? The reasons that the US has some excellent healthcare at the very top of the system are pretty varied, but sadly unless you're quite wealthy you will never see the type of healthcare that foreigners fly in for.

That's news to me. Americans going to other countries to get healthcare...Sounds like BS. Have anything to back that up? What kind of procedures are we talking about here? Ones that are illegal here in the states or something?

So you say that many people flyes to the states to get surgery with 0 support to that claim and then you call BS the response of other poster and ask for sources.

**feeder**

Total anecdote. In Canada, dental care is not covered under our 'free' healthcare. Dental plans are a fairly common workplace perk.

Flying to Mexico, having a short holiday there and getting expensive dental work done is sometimes a cheaper alternative than uninsured dental surgery done locally.

So I can totally believe uninsured Americans travelling abroad to get expensive medical work done.

**Xenomancers**

I have heard horror stories about people dying in other countries waiting to get life saving procedures. Hospitals being extremely understaffed. Ect. I have heard specifically bad stories about healthcare in England. Waiting lists for surgeries are upwards of 6 months plus. Is that true? or False?

I am asking here - is there a model that the US should follow here? Because from what I see - I see a lot of the same problems no matter where you look - it's just that in the US we pay more for healthcare to cover the fact that it's not a complete cluster fck + the fact that insurance blows everything way out of proportion.

**Disciple of Fate**

Yup, its important to note that even in the most conservative estimate, the 2:1 ratio still holds up.

https://www.usitc.gov/publications/332/executive_briefings/chambers_health-related_travel_final.pdf

About 0.5% of all air travelers entering the United States annually—between 100,000 and 200,000
people—list health treatment as a reason for visiting (this data excludes travelers from Canada and
Mexico, the majority of whom travel to the United States overland). [My note: this would exclude people travelling to Mexico or Canada too, so pretty much a wash]

.....

U.S. outbound medical tourists are thought to make up about 10% of the worldwide total. Data from a U.S. government survey
suggest that 150,000 to 320,000 U.S. travelers list healthcare as a reason for traveling abroad each year, or between 0.2% and 0.6%
of all outbound U.S. air travelers. South America represents the largest destination market for such travelers (26% of the total),
followed by Central America (18%) and the Caribbean (19%) (figure 3). These figures may partly reflect a tendency for
members of large diaspora communities in the United States to return to their countries of origin for healthcare. Trade with
Canada accounts for approximately 12% of U.S. exports and 7% of U.S. imports of health travel services while an estimated that
952,000 Californians enter Mexico to receive healthcare annually (including prescription drugs), about half of whom are Mexican
immigrants residing in the United States.

Americans cite cost savings as the most common reason to go abroad for health treatment, as medical procedures in foreign
hospitals can cost thousands of dollars less than in the United States. This is especially true for those without health
insurance—for an uninsured person, a knee replacement can cost $30,000 in the United States, compared to $12,000 in India.
Many health travelers also go abroad for elective procedures such as cosmetic surgery that regular policies may not cover. However, since medical insurance does not cover
even non-elective procedures performed abroad (with few exceptions), the market is limited to those who
can pay out of pocket for care. Issues of safety and liability also keep many potential patients from
considering overseas treatment, although nongovernmental groups like Joint Commission International
are making efforts to promote medical standards across borders.

**Galas**

Xenomancers wrote:
I have heard horror stories about people dying in other countries waiting to get life saving procedures. Hospitals being extremely understaffed. Ect. I have heard specifically bad stories about healthcare in England. Waiting lists for surgeries are upwards of 6 months plus. Is that true? or False?

I am asking here - is there a model that the US should follow here? Because from what I see - I see a lot of the same problems no matter where you look - it's just that in the US we pay more for healthcare to cover the fact that it's not a complete cluster fck + the fact that insurance blows everything way out of proportion.

4-10 months of waiting time are typical here for the non urgent surgeries here, with the public healthcare. But most of the time, if the surgery is urgent (And for urgent I don't mean only life or death surgery, but "This person is very bad/We need to know what is happening to him") Normally you are threated as soon as possible after you enter the hospital by urgencies department.

But most of the time horror histories are just that, horror histories. There the histories about a person dying in front of an hospital because he/she din't had insurance or had it with other hospital are common too. I'm sure they are the minority.

**Disciple of Fate**

Xenomancers wrote:
I have heard horror stories about people dying in other countries waiting to get life saving procedures. Hospitals being extremely understaffed. Ect. I have heard specifically bad stories about healthcare in England. Waiting lists for surgeries are upwards of 6 months plus. Is that true? or False?

I am asking here - is there a model that the US should follow here? Because from what I see - I see a lot of the same problems no matter where you look - it's just that in the US we pay more for healthcare to cover the fact that it's not a complete cluster fck + the fact that insurance blows everything way out of proportion.

Yes, anecdotal horror stories, meanwhile in Europe were regaled with 'horror' stories of the estimated death toll before and after the introduction of Obamacare and wondering why the feth it took so long.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Galas wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
I have heard horror stories about people dying in other countries waiting to get life saving procedures. Hospitals being extremely understaffed. Ect. I have heard specifically bad stories about healthcare in England. Waiting lists for surgeries are upwards of 6 months plus. Is that true? or False?

I am asking here - is there a model that the US should follow here? Because from what I see - I see a lot of the same problems no matter where you look - it's just that in the US we pay more for healthcare to cover the fact that it's not a complete cluster fck + the fact that insurance blows everything way out of proportion.

4-10 months of waiting time are typical here for the non urgent surgeries here, with the public healthcare. But most of the time, if the surgery is urgent (And for urgent I don't mean only life or death surgery, but "This person is very bad/We need to know what is happening to him") Normally you are threated as soon as possible after you enter the hospital by urgencies department.

Typical here too for non urgent surgeries. I required urgent surgery and was admitted to the hospital during the night and operated on the next day. Its on the level of death panel scare tactics.

**Xenomancers**

Galas wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:

Also - forgive me for being blunt but if European health care was so good. There wouldn't be so many people from other countries around the world coming here for surgeries.

Maybe some of it is a myth - what do you think about your health are system.

Wha? People from all Europe comes to Spain, specially german, french and english elder people to get quality surgeries for the cheap compared with their own countries. And as AllmightWalrus said, the people that comes for surgery to the USA is people that can't find that kind of surgery on their country. And are normally very, very expensive surgeries, only for the rich. Or people that take a very big debt to try to save their lives with experimental surgeries, etc...

Xenomancers wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:
But if US healthcare is so great why do Americans leaving the US to get healthcare outnumber people coming into the US by 2 to 1? The reasons that the US has some excellent healthcare at the very top of the system are pretty varied, but sadly unless you're quite wealthy you will never see the type of healthcare that foreigners fly in for.

That's news to me. Americans going to other countries to get healthcare...Sounds like BS. Have anything to back that up? What kind of procedures are we talking about here? Ones that are illegal here in the states or something?

So you say that many people flyes to the states to get surgery with 0 support to that claim and then you call BS the response of other poster and ask for sources.

I assume that it is common knowledge that people come to the US to get surgeries. Mainly based on the fact that I see it happen everyday. I am not denying it happens just that it is news to me.

**whembly**

Xenomancers wrote:
I have heard horror stories about people dying in other countries waiting to get life saving procedures. Hospitals being extremely understaffed. Ect. I have heard specifically bad stories about healthcare in England. Waiting lists for surgeries are upwards of 6 months plus. Is that true? or False?

I am asking here - is there a model that the US should follow here? Because from what I see - I see a lot of the same problems no matter where you look - it's just that in the US we pay more for healthcare to cover the fact that it's not a complete cluster fck + the fact that insurance blows everything way out of proportion.

Yes, there are many good things that US healthcare should emulate.... not necessarily the whole shebang, but there are great ideas world-wide.

I'll throw one out: In Germany (or Austria? I don't remember), many inpatient wards will have very little to no nursing staff. That's because it's the doctors and specialists that actually takes care of the patients. In the US, there's a distinct divide that doctors are turning into "researchers" banging out orders, leaving nursing/techs/other specialists to figure out *how* to apply the orders in the patient's care.

**skyth**

Xenomancers wrote:
I have heard horror stories about people dying in other countries waiting to get life saving procedures. Hospitals being extremely understaffed. Ect. I have heard specifically bad stories about healthcare in England. Waiting lists for surgeries are upwards of 6 months plus. Is that true? or False?

I am asking here - is there a model that the US should follow here? Because from what I see - I see a lot of the same problems no matter where you look - it's just that in the US we pay more for healthcare to cover the fact that it's not a complete cluster fck + the fact that insurance blows everything way out of proportion.

What's the waiting time for a surgery in the US if you're poor and don't have health insurance?

**Wolfblade**

Xenomancers wrote:
I have heard horror stories about people dying in other countries waiting to get life saving procedures. Hospitals being extremely understaffed. Ect. I have heard specifically bad stories about healthcare in England. Waiting lists for surgeries are upwards of 6 months plus. Is that true? or False?

I am asking here - is there a model that the US should follow here? Because from what I see - I see a lot of the same problems no matter where you look - it's just that in the US we pay more for healthcare to cover the fact that it's not a complete cluster fck + the fact that insurance blows everything way out of proportion.

Just another reminder, Whem and Xeno (and a couple others I can't remember off hand) are not here to argue in good faith, don't engage them. I mean, in the last page or two, Xeno was whining about people using "anecdotal" evidence, then proceeds to cite anecdotal evidence as the basis for his claims that other country's healthcare is terrible.

**Xenomancers**

Disciple of Fate wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
I have heard horror stories about people dying in other countries waiting to get life saving procedures. Hospitals being extremely understaffed. Ect. I have heard specifically bad stories about healthcare in England. Waiting lists for surgeries are upwards of 6 months plus. Is that true? or False?

I am asking here - is there a model that the US should follow here? Because from what I see - I see a lot of the same problems no matter where you look - it's just that in the US we pay more for healthcare to cover the fact that it's not a complete cluster fck + the fact that insurance blows everything way out of proportion.

Yes, anecdotal horror stories, meanwhile in Europe were regaled with 'horror' stories of the estimated death toll before and after the introduction of Obamacare and wondering why the feth it took so long.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Galas wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
I have heard horror stories about people dying in other countries waiting to get life saving procedures. Hospitals being extremely understaffed. Ect. I have heard specifically bad stories about healthcare in England. Waiting lists for surgeries are upwards of 6 months plus. Is that true? or False?

I am asking here - is there a model that the US should follow here? Because from what I see - I see a lot of the same problems no matter where you look - it's just that in the US we pay more for healthcare to cover the fact that it's not a complete cluster fck + the fact that insurance blows everything way out of proportion.

4-10 months of waiting time are typical here for the non urgent surgeries here, with the public healthcare. But most of the time, if the surgery is urgent (And for urgent I don't mean only life or death surgery, but "This person is very bad/We need to know what is happening to him") Normally you are threated as soon as possible after you enter the hospital by urgencies department.

Typical here too for non urgent surgeries. I required urgent surgery and was admitted to the hospital during the night and operated on the next day. Its on the level of death panel scare tactics.

Obamacare is trash.

It's kind of like Ethanol.

It has a good idea behind it but it doesn't solve any problems and just makes things worse. Ethanol is a product of corn - corn is a primary source of livestock feed. Corn being used to supplement fuel just raises the cost of livestock feed which in turn increases the cost of food. This is overall bad for everyone. Instead of land being used to create food - it's being used to create a fuel supplement. It has a lot of other consequences too. Interestingly - the "renewable" source of fuel we went with was one that worked with gasoline. I wonder how that happened.

Same thing with Obama care. Obamacare is just an insurance exchange that forces insurance companies to take people with preexisting conditions. Plus gives reduced rates to the poor. Reduced rates for the poor is great - but it just raises the cost on everyone else. It also takes a lot of freedom out of the process we have now.

I am all for a solution. I'd really like a solution that did not work based on an "insurance model".

**NinthMusketeer**

Can we please go back to ignoring certain individuals? We had a few pages of really good discussion before resuming...

**Witzkatz**

I'm working on a surgical ward in Germany right now. Cases are grouped into those that came via the emergency room (urgent or not) and those that are admitted as elective patients after having been seen in an outpatient clinic setting.

Elective patients are usually those where immediate surgery would be nice, of course, but there is also little risk in waiting a few more days or even weeks. I'm working on a vascular surgery ward - most common diagnosis is peripheral arterial diseases. Many of these patients experience pain after walking some distance, but are fine within their own homes or with limited movement. These get an elective surgery appointment, and these can wait, if necessary. HOWEVER - if one of these patients suddendly start to experience pain while at rest, they IMMEDIATELY get bumped up to the urgent list and will receive surgery within the next ~48hrs, with doctors operating on weekends if necessary.

@Xenomancers: What I'm trying to say is - I think you, unfortunately, read stories trying to create a divide between US and European healthcare that is not there. Critical patients get immediate attention on both continents, urgent patients receive care within the next few days and everybody else has to wait a bit longer, because doctors can only operate so many people in one week, that is just how healthcare works, by necessity, everywhere.

**Disciple of Fate**

Sometimes it helps spread information on more obscure subjects even though its not meant to convince other users, that is my approach. I'm careful not to get the thread closed.

**Xenomancers**

Wolfblade wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
I have heard horror stories about people dying in other countries waiting to get life saving procedures. Hospitals being extremely understaffed. Ect. I have heard specifically bad stories about healthcare in England. Waiting lists for surgeries are upwards of 6 months plus. Is that true? or False?

I am asking here - is there a model that the US should follow here? Because from what I see - I see a lot of the same problems no matter where you look - it's just that in the US we pay more for healthcare to cover the fact that it's not a complete cluster fck + the fact that insurance blows everything way out of proportion.

Just another reminder, Whem and Xeno (and a couple others I can't remember off hand) are not here to argue in good faith, don't engage them. I mean, in the last page or two, Xeno was whining about people using "anecdotal" evidence, then proceeds to cite anecdotal evidence as the basis for his claims that other country's healthcare is terrible.

Dude - I really have to express myself here. Just leave. I am sick of people like you that try control discussions with school yard bully type tactics. YOU are the problem. We are having a civilized discussion here. It is not helped by your condescending drivel.

Also let me explain something to you.

There is nothing wrong with an ancedote. Between people talking in good faith saying "I heard this story - is it true?" and "This guy in india got a life saving surgery - therefore lots of Americans do this".

Ofc you would know that if you were arguing in good faith but you are not. More or less I was telling a story I heard and asking a question to see if the story had merit. Not making a declaration of fact.

**feeder**

d-usa wrote:
From “Mexico will pay for the wall” to “I will shut down everything if the US doesn’t pay for my wall”.

What a shock.

Any Trump supporters want to go to bat for this one? Mr 'Art of the Deal' now throwing another temper tantrum over his inability to "make Mexico pay for it", or even persuade his own government to pay.

Even I feel some secondhand embarrassment over this spectacular failure..

**Xenomancers**

feeder wrote:
d-usa wrote:
From “Mexico will pay for the wall” to “I will shut down everything if the US doesn’t pay for my wall”.

What a shock.

Any Trump supporters want to go to bat for this one? Mr 'Art of the Deal' now throwing another temper tantrum over his inability to "make Mexico pay for it", or even persuade his own government to pay.

Even I feel some secondhand embarrassment over this spectacular failure..

Realistically - He is the president. He can in effect make mexico pay for the wall in other ways. I'm sure that was his plan all along.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Can we please go back to ignoring certain individuals? We had a few pages of really good discussion before resuming...

Right - I am sure everyone wants to get back to bashing trump and posting scandals.

Healthcare and immigration...who would want to talk about these things...Only 2 of the biggest issues in the 2016 election.

**Disciple of Fate**

feeder wrote:
d-usa wrote:
From “Mexico will pay for the wall” to “I will shut down everything if the US doesn’t pay for my wall”.

What a shock.

Any Trump supporters want to go to bat for this one? Mr 'Art of the Deal' now throwing another temper tantrum over his inability to "make Mexico pay for it", or even persuade his own government to pay.

Even I feel some secondhand embarrassment over this spectacular failure..

Maybe Trump can make a deal and build the wall using Chinese steel and employing foreign labour, you know, like how he used to run his business, which his supporters absolutely loved about him!

**feeder**

Xenomancers wrote:
feeder wrote:
d-usa wrote:
From “Mexico will pay for the wall” to “I will shut down everything if the US doesn’t pay for my wall”.

What a shock.

Any Trump supporters want to go to bat for this one? Mr 'Art of the Deal' now throwing another temper tantrum over his inability to "make Mexico pay for it", or even persuade his own government to pay.

Even I feel some secondhand embarrassment over this spectacular failure..

Realistically - He is the president. He can in effect make mexico pay for the wall in other ways. I'm sure that was his plan all along.

"Other ways" how? Tariffs?

**Disciple of Fate**

I'm sure his plan all along was to have no plan at all

**whembly**

skyth wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
I have heard horror stories about people dying in other countries waiting to get life saving procedures. Hospitals being extremely understaffed. Ect. I have heard specifically bad stories about healthcare in England. Waiting lists for surgeries are upwards of 6 months plus. Is that true? or False?

I am asking here - is there a model that the US should follow here? Because from what I see - I see a lot of the same problems no matter where you look - it's just that in the US we pay more for healthcare to cover the fact that it's not a complete cluster fck + the fact that insurance blows everything way out of proportion.

What's the waiting time for a surgery in the US if you're poor and don't have health insurance?

Do you have specifics?

I donated a kidney to my inlaw.

She was 26 at the time and was on Medicaid.

She qualified for medicaid because she was "poor" and didn't have employer healthcare insurance.

She was dealing with renal failure and was mere weeks (not months) away from doing full-on dialysis. During those weeks, me and family members got compatibility tested and received full physical (hey, donating solid organs is a mondo surgery!).

Once I found out I was a match, little more than a week... the transplant was scheduled.

The potential roadblock here wasn't money, nor skilled surgeons, nor lack of facilities. It was about finding a donor match.

While she was poor and had to apply for medicaid, she had her gak together. There ARE severe problems in educating the public how to get public-assistance like this as filing for medicaid can be a bureaucratic adventure.