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Wow, some seriously intense people on this subject. Ebay as a sideline extra way of getting rid of stuff simply isn't worth the hassle now. It's to easy to get scammed by buyers and everything is in their favor. Ebay has made it pointless for most non-business or at least non primary secondary source income of people to sell there.

I'm totally ok with someone banning someone for posting a neg review that could hamper 5% more of my income if I'm a major seller. It's their business and it says so in their actual auctions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yeah, if you charge for expedited / Priority mail, but only ship slow mail, I'll expect something for the difference

Also I'd point out that depending on the size of the unit the cost is essentially the same less a few pennies nowadays so I'd tell you to pound sand. If they want to risk sending something without insurance by ground and save a nickel they can. Because that's literally the difference on normal sized packages now.

And yet, you're still saving those nickels by defrauding the buyer, charging for a level of service that you did not provide. I guess it's worth a Neg

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
And yet, you're still saving those nickels by defrauding the buyer, charging for a level of service that you did not provide. I guess it's worth a Neg

Actually I was pointing out that pricing is essentially the same. Has nothing to do with "defrauding" if they charge a cost unless they advertise priority. If it's what you think priority should cost that's your expectation friend. Honestly by the time ebay, shipping (because everyone expects the exact shipping price but forgets boxes and packaging need to happen), and paypal costs are added in it's already an meh situation for a seller. Add in unreasonable expectations and a system so far on the buyers side it's not a surprise why sellers will blacklist whiny customers. It's the old version of "Don't like it, shop elsewhere".

The seller specifies how they will ship. If they say they will ship expedited / Priority, and they fail to do so, that's a breach of the contract, and they may be penalized accordingly. They took money for a service that they failed to deliver - that is fraud, and there is ample proof of that. If they fail to provide proper compensation, there should be consequences.

And I do plenty of selling on eBay, "friend". I ship expedited / Priority almost all the time. I don't try to save a nickel - I provide what I offered, simple as that. My service is excellent.

For the record, if you list expedited / Priority, but ship standard / First Class, I will dispute via eBay and expect ALL of the shipping charges to be refunded. If you give me any gak about it, I'll Neg you and hammer the gak out of your ratings. I know exactly how the feedback game is played, and I have no compunction about punishing a dishonest seller as hard as possible.

The difference between standard and Priority shipping may be small, however, if I'm looking at two competing auctions, one is priced at $25 with Priority, and the other is $23 with standard shipping, I'll go Priority most of the time.

If I end up getting standard shipping when Priority was promised, that just means I've lost money for no gain. And yes, that HAS happened to me before.

I'm curious. You do realize 'free shipping' is often used. Where would you dispute shipping charges in that situation? Assuming the seller selected expedited shipping and sent it economy.

Also, in my experience First Class is the same or nearly the same speed as Priority, with the exception around high-traffic seasonal periods. I sent a First Class package from NM to NY last week and it was delivered in 2 days. I sent a package 2-day Priority last year and it took over a week to deliver it to CA. No explanation for why even though the buyer contacted USPS about it. Trucks break down, weather causes problems, delays happen.

But as a seller, I always select economy and then boost it to expedited when the need arises, just to avoid any potential complaints from the buyer. Though most of my packages are under 14 ounces, so First Class is the most efficient.

As a buyer, if the package gets to me within the shown expected delivery date, I don't care if it was sent First Class, Parcel Post, or Priority--it got to me on time.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Long Story Short, A large ebay bits seller has banned me from buying their product because I gave them a valid negative review.


I have purchased dozens of bits orders from this seller over the years. Around Fathers Day ebay had a nice promotional code, combine this with this sellers "buy 10 things, get 10% off" policy and making a very large bits order was very cheap.

Unfortunately, for the first time ever, this seller let me down. After a rather unreasonable delay in shipping some bits were missing. Emails I sent were not returned, so I had to make a paypal claim. Eventually I got a refund, but this was still a negative experience in my book, and marked that one item as a negative on their feedback (with a dozen positives for the correct items). I am now banned from their ebay store.

Has anyone else had this kind of heavy-handed reaction to honest feedback?

Lack of details possible in this story.

I operate an eBay store. If I had a buyer order a large qty of items and claim some small amount were missing then try and get a full refund as the resolution I would block them.

How many bits were you missing?

Did you get a refund for the full order or just the missing items?

Did you try and work it out with the seller to get the missing items?

Etc.

You said it was a large order, if you were missing 1-5 dollars of bits from a hundred plus order then pushed for a full refund you are a very in the wrong, If that's not the case maybe the seller is spiteful, but this story seems incomplete.

Anytime eBay has a site wide sale, coupled with a holiday you should expect a shipping delay, it's the nature of that beast often.

blaktoof wrote:
[
How many bits were you missing?

Did you get a refund for the full order or just the missing items?

Did you try and work it out with the seller to get the missing items?

Etc.

You said it was a large order, if you were missing 1-5 dollars of bits from a hundred plus order then pushed for a full refund you are a very in the wrong, If that's not the case maybe the seller is spiteful, but this story seems incomplete.

Anytime eBay has a site wide sale, coupled with a holiday you should expect a shipping delay, it's the nature of that beast often.

I used the "Buy it Now" function to win multiple auctions. I was missing one of them. Originally I was only asking for those missing items to be sent, however, my emails were not answered. I eventually got a refund for, and only for, those missing items.

 cuda1179 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
[
How many bits were you missing?

Did you get a refund for the full order or just the missing items?

Did you try and work it out with the seller to get the missing items?

Etc.

You said it was a large order, if you were missing 1-5 dollars of bits from a hundred plus order then pushed for a full refund you are a very in the wrong, If that's not the case maybe the seller is spiteful, but this story seems incomplete.

Anytime eBay has a site wide sale, coupled with a holiday you should expect a shipping delay, it's the nature of that beast often.

I used the "Buy it Now" function to win multiple auctions. I was missing one of them. Originally I was only asking for those missing items to be sent, however, my emails were not answered. I eventually got a refund for, and only for, those missing items.

Well that's a crappy experience. You can always open a new eBay account to order from them.

blaktoof wrote:
Well that's a crappy experience. You can always open a new eBay account to order from them.

That's a bad idea - the seller would have a record of the shipping address, and would likely cancel and report.

I guess I could just use my mom's ebay account. She live only 8 blocks from me.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Well that's a crappy experience. You can always open a new eBay account to order from them.

That's a bad idea - the seller would have a record of the shipping address, and would likely cancel and report.

It's really unlikely they will check, additionally you can send to a relative, your workplace, etc. They may cancel but unless you are harassing or scamming them reporting will not have any outcome.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Ezaviel wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Its just a thing of ebay, as bad a taste as it leaves. One of my favorite bitz sellers recently added statements all over their site saying if you leave a negative you will be blocked from future purchases.

Surely that is against Ebay terms and conditions though?

How so?

It seems completely reasonable

You have a strange definition of reasonable. This is literally a threat that they will refuse to do business with you if you complain about their service being bad.

I would have expected this to come under "feedback extortion", because it literally is. But apparently Ebay are okay with this tactic.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Wow, some seriously intense people on this subject. Ebay as a sideline extra way of getting rid of stuff simply isn't worth the hassle now. It's to easy to get scammed by buyers and everything is in their favor. Ebay has made it pointless for most non-business or at least non primary secondary source income of people to sell there.

Ebay is rapidly dying. Like anything moribund, it's best given a wide berth at this point as a seller.

Interesting. I'd never thought of some of these points about ebay. I'm not active on e-bay any more, but when I was there was a guy I surely would have banned if I'd known about that feature, simply out of a desire to never, ever interact with them again.

It's interesting because I've sold many items with little to no problems. I think one time a themperosn won a bid but didn't pay for it so I had to reopen the bid... However, I did have one issue with a seller where I paid for an item with pretty high shipping. The item was a great deal though so it seemed worth it. I waiting for about a week and a half for something that should hve only have been 2 day max shipping and so just messaged the guy (didn't put any review down or anything) about the item. He told he hadn't even bothered to send it yet! So i waited another week and a half and 3 weeks later i still hadn't received the item. Sometimes it's great to have the ebay system though as i filled a report and within like an hour the guy refunded my money so geuss he was just upset the item went for so low on the bid.

I knew a military sales guy once though who sold a £900 (or £9,000 I forget) jacket on ebay. He was pretty professional so had insurance on it, tracked first class postage and everything! Guy who bought it instantly reported he never got it like a week later but the guy had full evidence that he had signed for it (even somehow got his signature). Ebay totally ignored the evidence and refunded him... later on he found out he was an infamous seller who does this with almost every high purchase. It's sad.

I had refrained from selling due to a couple bad experiences a short time ago (an overseas bidder who complained about shipping costs, despite the initial auction saying no overseas bidders - the second someone who never paid despite several e-mails requesting the buyer do so), and just did two recent sales with no issues.

I’d say about 90% or more sales go without issue, but it’s that 10% that leave really bad taste in people’s mouth - enough for them to decide it isn’t worth the gamble of dealing with a problematic individual; seller or buyer.

Having used eBay since 1998, I agree with every seller in this thread -

eBay offers 100% support for buyers, and will refund a buyer if they complain and will not demand the item get returned.

Sellers have zero recourse for a buyer complaint. A buyer can absolutely lie and will get a refund.

The only thing that a Seller can do is to leave positive feedback or to ban the Buyer.

 judgedoug wrote:
Having used eBay since 1998, I agree with every seller in this thread -

eBay offers 100% support for buyers, and will refund a buyer if they complain and will not demand the item get returned.

Sellers have zero recourse for a buyer complaint. A buyer can absolutely lie and will get a refund.

The only thing that a Seller can do is to leave positive feedback or to ban the Buyer.

This ^^. Sold an item on eBay, shipped it. It arrived next day and was signed for. A few weeks later the buyer opened a case saying it didn't arrive and even though he'd signed for it eBay refunded him.

If you shipped to the Buyer Confirmed Address, with Tracking, you should not be on the hook. It becomes Buyer's responsibility to have a secure address for delivery, not Seller or PO. Seller may assist Buyer with the information needed for lost mail, but is not responsible for Buyer carelessly losing item after delivery

Legal, but not moral question.

Legally speaking, isn't it the shipper technically the seller's responsibility until the item is delivered?

If the Seller used "Random Shipping Company X" and the company looses the package, that's all on the seller, right?

 cuda1179 wrote:
If the Seller used "Random Shipping Company X" and the company looses the package, that's all on the seller, right?

I used Royal Mail Recorded, and have a tracking number that states it was delivered to the correct address and signed for by the buyer. Buyer says he never received it, Royal Mail are saying they delivered it. I suggested to the buyer that he checks with housemates and neighbours. eBay claim was opened and they sided with the buyer (and didn't reply to my messages).

@cuda - that's partly correct. Legally, Seller is responsible to deliver. Buyer specifies a valid, secure delivery address. If my agent delivers to that address, and Buyer fails to collect, that's on the Buyer, not me.

If my shipping agent fails to deliver to the address (i.e. loses the package), that's on me. I would have to refund the Buyer and collect insurance from the shipping company.
____

@beast - that's not right - the fact that your shipper delivered it should mean you're not responsible.

The only way you'd be wrong is if you delivered to a wrong address (i.e. buyer specified different from the Order, and you were fool enough to use that instead)

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
@cuda - that's partly correct. Legally, Seller is responsible to deliver. Buyer specifies a valid, secure delivery address. If my agent delivers to that address, and Buyer fails to collect, that's on the Buyer, not me.

If my shipping agent fails to deliver to the address (i.e. loses the package), that's on me. I would have to refund the Buyer and collect insurance from the shipping company.
____

@beast - that's not right - the fact that your shipper delivered it should mean you're not responsible.

The only way you'd be wrong is if you delivered to a wrong address (i.e. buyer specified different from the Order, and you were fool enough to use that instead)

You seem to be under the impression that Ebay cares what's right or wrong when it comes to buyers vs. sellers because most people I know have a story similar to Beast and it's why they stopped selling. Maybe because you obviously sell heavily they give you more weight and you get different results or are willing to put in insane amounts of time to get it corrected but most of us don't have that kind of time for a side sell. So now it goes on local selling sites/facebook/craigs list.

 judgedoug wrote:
Having used eBay since 1998, I agree with every seller in this thread -

eBay offers 100% support for buyers, and will refund a buyer if they complain and will not demand the item get returned.

Sellers have zero recourse for a buyer complaint. A buyer can absolutely lie and will get a refund.

The only thing that a Seller can do is to leave positive feedback or to ban the Buyer.

This is not always true. I recently bought 2 canoptek spyders (where the seller was selling multiples of one each and I added two to my cart) and was only sent 1. After communication to the seller that I only received one, he acknowledged that in his reply and that he would send the second spyder. He never did. Two weeks later I opened up a dispute and ebay immediately sided with the seller and closed it, saying the package was shown as delivered.

I had to call ebay and talk to a representative and show them the email that the seller sent me saying he forgot to send the 2nd spyder, with several minutes of back and forth hassle When they finally sided with me, they told me to return the one spyder I received for a full refund, even though I wanted to keep it and pay half--they would not allow it.

So I sent it back and got the full refund through ebay. A few weeks later, I got the package back in the mail because the seller address was vacated. I checked that ebay account and it was no longer registered.

I've also been using ebay for 20 years. When people claim that ebay automatically sides with the buyer, I'm wondering if those same people had one bad experience and now claim it's the status quo.

I have a shop, so that might be the difference. Pay eBay every month, and you might get better service

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I have a shop, so that might be the difference. Pay eBay every month, and you might get better service

I should not have to, but eBay has made it that way, waging outright war against small sellers the last few years. With onerous policy changes, increasing fees,and buyer butt-kissing, they have made it abundantly clear I am not welcome any longer. I joined eBay almost 19 years ago, in 1999, to sell some Battletech miniatures. I have always given excellent service, with 100% positive feedback from those 19 years. But I have made my last sale there. eBay wants big sellers paying them big fees, and who have the ability kiss every hurt buyer on the butt whether they are right or wrong, because they re big enough to take the hits. So be it.

And yes, I banned people. Mostly it was non payers and bid retractors. I allowed them to back out of their 'mistake' (which almost always wasn't, just them being stupid), but they were done ever bidding on my stuff. Today, it is not worth it. Buyers have become spoiled, and are holding all the cards on eBay. What eBay seems to forget these days is that there needs to be a balance between buyers and sellers. It is not there now, and has not been for sometime, and I don't see myself ever going back.

You don't have to, as in theory, and officially, there's no difference between having a store or not. Just like Yelp says there's no difference between paying them or not. It's just a coincidence shops that pay them have better feedback, and that feedback can change really quickly after you cut that first check. Pure coincidence. Absolutely *NOT* a shakedown. Criminally slanderous to even suggest it. And again zero proof. So there.

That said, I also have all my payments through PayPal, and buy all of my postage through eBay / PayPal as well...

No problems so far. *knock*

It's interesting how we've gone from "sellers should be able to ban anyone who gives them honest feedback about a legitimate negative transaction" into talking about cases of buyers running illegal scams, as if the two have anything at all to do with each other. Nobody is disputing that buyers should not be able to commit fraud, just like sellers shouldn't be able to. But that has nothing to do with cases like the OP, where the seller failed to deliver the purchased product but is apparently entitled to avoid negative feedback because having people know about the failed transaction means the seller doesn't get the benefit of a perfect feedback score.

Peregrine, I think the point is that eBay only looks after itself and that buyers & sellers both need to be cautious.