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I think the difference is that GW believes there is an issue with people not being able to finish in the time allotted, and ITC believes there is an issue with people cheating. There are arguments for moving down to 1750 or 1500 points, but 1500 points isn't going to stop the ork guy from Warhammer World from sitting on his ass until time runs out. He'll just play even slower.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I think the difference is that GW believes there is an issue with people not being able to finish in the time allotted, and ITC believes there is an issue with people cheating. There are arguments for moving down to 1750 or 1500 points, but 1500 points isn't going to stop the ork guy from Warhammer World from sitting on his ass until time runs out. He'll just play even slower.

But slow playing that extremely will be very noticeable, and thus caught.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I think the difference is that GW believes there is an issue with people not being able to finish in the time allotted, and ITC believes there is an issue with people cheating. There are arguments for moving down to 1750 or 1500 points, but 1500 points isn't going to stop the ork guy from Warhammer World from sitting on his ass until time runs out. He'll just play even slower.

Not really. If ITC would be truly interested in targeting cheaters, they'd regulate cheating through intentional fast-playing and slow-playing symmetrically. As it is, the ruling has in my experience created exponentially more cheating as people pressure/bully "normal" tournament-participants (i.e. not the guys going for top 8 at LVO) with the 'I'll call the ref/clock on any hint of not playing at frenetic speed" to disquise fast-rolling of dice, cheat-moves in the movement and CC phase, etc.. fast-talking "unplayed" points through theory-hammering late turns, etc.., etc..

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I think the difference is that GW believes there is an issue with people not being able to finish in the time allotted, and ITC believes there is an issue with people cheating. There are arguments for moving down to 1750 or 1500 points, but 1500 points isn't going to stop the ork guy from Warhammer World from sitting on his ass until time runs out. He'll just play even slower.

Not really. If ITC would be truly interested in targeting cheaters, they'd regulate cheating through intentional fast-playing and slow-playing symmetrically. As it is, the ruling has in my experience created exponentially more cheating as people pressure/bully "normal" tournament-participants (i.e. not the guys going for top 8 at LVO) with the 'I'll call the ref/clock on any hint of not playing at frenetic speed" to disquise fast-rolling of dice, cheat-moves in the movement and CC phase, etc.. fast-talking "unplayed" points through theory-hammering late turns, etc.., etc..

Huh? That's exactly what this rule is designed to stop.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Huh? That's exactly what this rule is designed to stop.

How so?

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Huh? That's exactly what this rule is designed to stop.

How so?

You each have your own time limit. So there is no need for your opponent to call a ref if your slow. Since its your own time your wasting.

I am not someone who plays a horde army on a regular basis in 40k, but after playing AoS and played around with Tyranids and Orks I can easily see problems as well as potential ways of fixing this(which in turn could create other issues).

First, there is obviously a need for movement trays for horde armies. This should speed up play and make the clock a less terrifying change for Horde players.

Second, there needs to be a tournament sanctioned dice app that is used for rolling. This way everyone can use the same app without people being afraid of cheating.

Regarding the first point, there needs to be some ruling about movement trays so people can't screw around with them to game the system. This needs to be addressed by the tournament holders and sanctioned movement trays approved.

Regarding the second post there is a chance someone might use a rigged dice app which means there must be some security or precautions made around the use of that. Perhaps an app that is only compiled and released on the day the tournament starts so no one can make a similar mockup.

If those two things are properly addressed it should speed up play for all armies and make the clocks less punishing for those who play with an army consisting of more units than a standard clock army.

How about just playing properly?......
Is that too extreme a concept?
I don't see other wargame systems needing clocks or having players who play slow deliberately.

Maybe you just need to grow up as a player base?

ValentineGames wrote:
How about just playing properly?......
Is that too extreme a concept?
I don't see other wargame systems needing clocks or having players who play slow deliberately.

Maybe you just need to grow up as a player base?

Except for that other wargame that do use it. Warmachine.

ValentineGames wrote:
How about just playing properly?......
Is that too extreme a concept?
I don't see other wargame systems needing clocks or having players who play slow deliberately.

Maybe you just need to grow up as a player base?

Yeah this is excellent logic, I'll totally go ahead and just mature my tournament-assigned slow-playing opponent on his behalf. Dunno why nobody ever thought to do this before

 SHUPPET wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
How about just playing properly?......
Is that too extreme a concept?
I don't see other wargame systems needing clocks or having players who play slow deliberately.

Maybe you just need to grow up as a player base?

Yeah this is excellent logic, I'll totally go ahead and just mature my tournament-assigned slow-playing opponent on his behalf. Dunno why nobody ever thought to do this before

I treat all my opponents as Tamagotchis that I need to personally raise into adulthood.

It gets rid of the cancer that is intentional slow play. I'm all for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ValentineGames wrote:
How about just playing properly?......
Is that too extreme a concept?
I don't see other wargame systems needing clocks or having players who play slow deliberately.

Maybe you just need to grow up as a player base?

Warmachine and Kings of War I know both regularly use clocks at their tournaments because sandbagging has been a time honored "tactic" since wargaming tournaments were a thing before the internet.

The clock has a lot of benefits. Unspoken is the other side of the equation that if you have the clock it is your time. If you need to interrupt the opponents turn for any reason, just reach over and flip the clock to your time. No need to try to interrupt and get their attention.

This is most useful for Stratagems that interupt. You see him about to take shots at your Knight and want to Rotate shields, ship the clock to yourself, declare what is going on, ship the clock back to him.

No more arguments about Ohh I tried to do This or that. Very clear.

auticus wrote:
It gets rid of the cancer that is intentional slow play. I'm all for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ValentineGames wrote:
How about just playing properly?......
Is that too extreme a concept?
I don't see other wargame systems needing clocks or having players who play slow deliberately.

Maybe you just need to grow up as a player base?

Warmachine and Kings of War I know both regularly use clocks at their tournaments because sandbagging has been a time honored "tactic" since wargaming tournaments were a thing before the internet.

Guild Ball does as well. I know a few others I. The process of adding them.

I like what the guy above said.

But if I was running it I would just use the clock to catch egregious offenders. When your turn is done flip the clock. He can roll his saves on your turn, it doesn't take that long. Each person gets an hour all their own, the last half hour they have to share and if one guy gets 20 min and the other 10 thats fine. If one guy gets all 30 thats fine too. But if you look at the clock and realise one guy is using up way more time than the other and you won't get to finnish call a ref over.

If you are worried about a rules looking up, print cards. Every unit on an index card. Stat block, weapons, buffs and special rules referenced by page number.

That should be standard anyway, I keep meaning to do it myself so I don't keep forgetting my drugs and grenades.

Most of the time spent in 8th in my experience is pre-measuring and rule referencing. Once in a while I'd get an opponent that pre-measures and re-measures the pre-measures. And this happens for all four phases. And then you have your half-cheating guy who willingly or unwillingly tries to pull a fast one where you have to call them out on, and then he spends another 10 minutes going through his books which most of the time ends with "oh sorry I misread that rule".

A reasonably prepared player doesn't need more than 10 minutes to play out his turn. I think the 10 min per turn is pretty reasonable.

 Eldarsif wrote:

Second, there needs to be a tournament sanctioned dice app that is used for rolling. This way everyone can use the same app without people being afraid of cheating.

GW already has a legal dice app.

http://assaultdice.com/

 Eldarsif wrote:
The game ain't chess. It doesn't have the merit or the pedigree to be some "holier than thou" game and never will be as it is a product owned by a company engaging in earning profits.

Well said.

There are better games to scratch a true competitive gaming itch. The only reason I play competitive 40k is because it's the best way to play with new people against new lists, and there's no silly stigma against bringing whatever models you want to play. (none of that, "oh you brought THAT, it's a casual game" nonsense).

ValentineGames wrote:



...and you need to lighten up because if you are going to take a game about suped-up space soldiers and fetish space elves seriously you are going to have a bad time. I mean, not being facetious, or being completely humorless, is not my idea of maturity. To each their own.

The subjective goalpost of maturity is more or less impossible to attain, especially considering the fact that the game is always changing and gaining and losing players. The game ain't chess. It doesn't have the merit or the pedigree to be some "holier than thou" game and never will be as it is a product owned by a company engaging in earning profits.

No.

While your right on souped up humans and space elves that’s not nearly the sum of it.

I’ve easily spent over 10 grand in the last 30 years on GW products and models. Possibly more. Many have spent way more.
I’ve traveled extensively to events both local and across the USA, at my cost. Many have traveled more.
I’ve spent many hours painting and basing and converting my current force. And I suck at painting, most are better.
I’ve spent more hours at the game store playing the game. But not as many as others.

Playing this game is escapism and self-sacrifice. Yes it is my hobby and what I want to do, but the other side of that is that isn’t a solo activity. It requires my sacrifice and also my opponents. When I’m talking about his/her money, his/her time, his or her efforts, I’m not going to be so cavalier and “Lighten up” I’m going to try to show up, give them a great game that has them walking away, win or lose saying, “Wow, that is why I play 40K”.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
The game ain't chess. It doesn't have the merit or the pedigree to be some "holier than thou" game and never will be as it is a product owned by a company engaging in earning profits.

Well said.

There are better games to scratch a true competitive gaming itch. The only reason I play competitive 40k is because it's the best way to play with new people against new lists, and there's no silly stigma against bringing whatever models you want to play. (none of that, "oh you brought THAT, it's a casual game" nonsense).

Then you should love the introduction of the chess clock. Nothing is worse than building and painting a competitive list, driving/flying to a tournament, getting signed in, putting all your models out then having your game only go to turn 2 because an ork player decided to individually measure and move 200 ork boys onto objectives for the sole purpose of not allowing you to actually play against his army. Playing against "new lists" isn't very fun when you never get to play against them because your opponent slow plays. If anything chess clocks will now allow you to actually play said new list and actually use those units that casual players frown upon.

Reemule wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:



...and you need to lighten up because if you are going to take a game about suped-up space soldiers and fetish space elves seriously you are going to have a bad time. I mean, not being facetious, or being completely humorless, is not my idea of maturity. To each their own.

The subjective goalpost of maturity is more or less impossible to attain, especially considering the fact that the game is always changing and gaining and losing players. The game ain't chess. It doesn't have the merit or the pedigree to be some "holier than thou" game and never will be as it is a product owned by a company engaging in earning profits.

No.

While your right on souped up humans and space elves that’s not nearly the sum of it.

I’ve easily spent over 10 grand in the last 30 years on GW products and models. Possibly more. Many have spent way more.
I’ve traveled extensively to events both local and across the USA, at my cost. Many have traveled more.
I’ve spent many hours painting and basing and converting my current force. And I suck at painting, most are better.
I’ve spent more hours at the game store playing the game. But not as many as others.

Playing this game is escapism and self-sacrifice. Yes it is my hobby and what I want to do, but the other side of that is that isn’t a solo activity. It requires my sacrifice and also my opponents. When I’m talking about his/her money, his/her time, his or her efforts, I’m not going to be so cavalier and “Lighten up” I’m going to try to show up, give them a great game that has them walking away, win or lose saying, “Wow, that is why I play 40K”.

I do hope you read ValentineGames original comment(seems it was deleted) because my comment was aimed at his "nobody is allowed to be facetious or have humor" comment. It's one thing to show up, have a good game, and enjoying the game in the best possible manner. It is an entirely another thing to basically not allow people to be facetious or have humor. Playing the game and having fun are not mutually exclusive things unless you are a Vulcan.

I mean, I've easily spent over 10k on the hobby and countless hours painting, but if I can't allow myself to laugh and poke fun at myself when I play the game it isn't a game anymore. Hell, then it would be worse than my work environment.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I think the difference is that GW believes there is an issue with people not being able to finish in the time allotted, and ITC believes there is an issue with people cheating. There are arguments for moving down to 1750 or 1500 points, but 1500 points isn't going to stop the ork guy from Warhammer World from sitting on his ass until time runs out. He'll just play even slower.

You're only partially right. ITC DOES believe there's an issue with people cheating, but if they wanted to stop that they could have a long time ago by enforcing the blatant examples it apparently took "normal" players watching a stream to catch. The chess clocks came about as a blanket reaction to an artificial "everyone is slow-playing and cheating YOU!" panic post-LVO because the alternative was for ITC to start calling out and/or sanctioning celebrity players.

I'm not against chess clocks, but I'm also for increasing the time and/or lowering the points value of games because that's how you fix a majority of games not finishing on time, especially for new players. You aren't going to fix that problem by making it harder for whatever percentage of the community you think cheats to do so (unless you believe >25% does).

Asmodios wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
The game ain't chess. It doesn't have the merit or the pedigree to be some "holier than thou" game and never will be as it is a product owned by a company engaging in earning profits.

Well said.

There are better games to scratch a true competitive gaming itch. The only reason I play competitive 40k is because it's the best way to play with new people against new lists, and there's no silly stigma against bringing whatever models you want to play. (none of that, "oh you brought THAT, it's a casual game" nonsense).

Then you should love the introduction of the chess clock. Nothing is worse than building and painting a competitive list, driving/flying to a tournament, getting signed in, putting all your models out then having your game only go to turn 2 because an ork player decided to individually measure and move 200 ork boys onto objectives for the sole purpose of not allowing you to actually play against his army. Playing against "new lists" isn't very fun when you never get to play against them because your opponent slow plays. If anything chess clocks will now allow you to actually play said new list and actually use those units that casual players frown upon.

Or worse, you only get to actually play for 40 minutes out of the 3 hours allotted to your game because the horde player feels entitled to 2 hours and 20 minutes as his time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Audustum wrote:


Because it unnecessarily buffs skews lists and nerfs elite armies?

Not nearly as bad as the ITC Missions do.

Bologna. Elites struggle in ITC as is regularly demonstrated. I've seen no data whatsoever on skew lists being promoted or hindered by ITC though.

That said, I play NOVA.

Chess clocks have been needed for a log time just to change the longstanding issue that games often end on or before turn 3 even when players aren't trying to cheat. It's had a warping effect on "what's good" and makes it hard to design scenarios when the board state has so little time to mature (you're talking a situation where footslogging models are unlikely to move more than 18" beyond the point they are deployed). The high profile cheating just forced action and movement on the issue.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I think the difference is that GW believes there is an issue with people not being able to finish in the time allotted, and ITC believes there is an issue with people cheating. There are arguments for moving down to 1750 or 1500 points, but 1500 points isn't going to stop the ork guy from Warhammer World from sitting on his ass until time runs out. He'll just play even slower.

You're only partially right. ITC DOES believe there's an issue with people cheating, but if they wanted to stop that they could have a long time ago by enforcing the blatant examples it apparently took "normal" players watching a stream to catch. The chess clocks came about as a blanket reaction to an artificial "everyone is slow-playing and cheating YOU!" panic post-LVO because the alternative was for ITC to start calling out and/or sanctioning celebrity players.

I'm not against chess clocks, but I'm also for increasing the time and/or lowering the points value of games because that's how you fix a majority of games not finishing on time, especially for new players. You aren't going to fix that problem by making it harder for whatever percentage of the community you think cheats to do so (unless you believe >25% does).

A clock helps slower player who are not intentionally trying to slow play to finish their games on time by providing a simple 'in your face' reminder of the time they have left.

It is a system that has been proven to work in other games.

Edit:
Also, the reason 'normal' people noticed it on stream is not because its so very obvious but because they are sitting at home having a drink and looking at the time elapsed. And its always "hey he took 1.5 hours for his first turn" at a point where the damage is already done.
Catching slow play before the damage is done is hard.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Is the time on the clock split evenly between both players?

Yes, playing a horde army doesn't give you the right to more time. Any more then playing Pure Greknights lets you field an extra 200 points.

Playing a horde army gives you the right to field more models though. So why not more time.

Or if symmetry in all things is the rule you want to enforce, the logical equivalent would be equal model count for all armies.

This is just the kind of attitude that has lead to clocks for ITC and 1750 pts for WHW. And games should finish. Typical horde tactic is to swamp objectives then run the clock out like the fiasco with orks earlier this year.

Right now the meta drastically favors horde - they do not need any "breaks".

Spoletta wrote:

Audustum wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I really don't understand why the community is so much against lowering points limits.

Every time GW makes a change that generates more sells we bash them because they are robbing us. For ONCE they did a change that actually has sense and lowers the entry barrier to the standard games and we refuse it?

No one had problems with index only games. Actually, many consider the index meta better and more balanced than the codex meta, so why implementing a change that puts us back to index level armies should be a bad thing?

ITC is already an heavily house ruled version of the game that is splitting the community and the feedback it provides, why increase the gap when GW has already provided an official solution to this problem?

Because it unnecessarily buffs skews lists and nerfs elite armies?

And 2000 points games are cramped,

Only if its horde vs. horde, in which case it should feel a bit cramped (ignoring the subjective nature of this kind of complaint temporarily).

alpha strikey,

All point levels are. That's why you need something like beta rules to help.

favour factions with lots of internal sinergies

All point levels do.

and nerf deep strikers and everyone who doesn't have decent screens.

2k doesn't nerf either of those. No mode really does except Kill Team. Hence beta rules.

No watter what point level you play, you are shifting the meta a bit, so your argument is void.

Ha, haha. This argument is ridiculous. We're not talking about shifting the meta. We're talking about changing the fundamental game to where heavy skew lists dominate TAC's and elite armies are virtually unplayable without handicaps (neither being a thing the community supposedly wants).

That said, we are not talking about moving to 1000 points were what you said is actually a big problem, we are talking about 1750, which isn't that different from 2000. The biggest difference is that you have more space to move on the board (1-3 less units per side) and the game ends overall quicker.

It's a HUGE difference for Custodes. Custodes are 722 for a minimum battalion (which isn't competitive in the slightest). The competitive Outrider build is 970. 1,094 when you add in the near mandatory -1 to Hit Vexilla. You're not just talking about limiting your 'toys', but severely cramping the ability of armies to bring anything on top of their core. Imperial Knights are the same with your point change making most pure lists change from 4 Knights to 3 Knights. It's only '1 unit' but it's a HUGE difference. I could go on with other elites (Grey Knights, Primarch armies, e.t.c.), but I think the point is across.

The same is true for TAC's. Those 250 points are used a lot to round out wargear so they actually can take all comers. You strip it off them and now they either won't have the tools to fight a horde, a heavy flier or a heavy armor. Take your pick. It will become a viable tournament strategy to field skew lists in any of those categories and just gamble on hitting TAC's which had to forego their options to handle you.

I really feel like ITC is becoming too snob for it's own good. Creating a mission packet is one thing, but outright refusing GW fix to time limits and coming out with theyr own is another.

ITC was doing its own thing way more often in 7th. GW's wrong on this one, but they're free to do what they want at their own tournaments.

 Eldarsif wrote:

Reemule wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:



...and you need to lighten up because if you are going to take a game about suped-up space soldiers and fetish space elves seriously you are going to have a bad time. I mean, not being facetious, or being completely humorless, is not my idea of maturity. To each their own.

The subjective goalpost of maturity is more or less impossible to attain, especially considering the fact that the game is always changing and gaining and losing players. The game ain't chess. It doesn't have the merit or the pedigree to be some "holier than thou" game and never will be as it is a product owned by a company engaging in earning profits.

No.

While your right on souped up humans and space elves that’s not nearly the sum of it.

I’ve easily spent over 10 grand in the last 30 years on GW products and models. Possibly more. Many have spent way more.
I’ve traveled extensively to events both local and across the USA, at my cost. Many have traveled more.
I’ve spent many hours painting and basing and converting my current force. And I suck at painting, most are better.
I’ve spent more hours at the game store playing the game. But not as many as others.

Playing this game is escapism and self-sacrifice. Yes it is my hobby and what I want to do, but the other side of that is that isn’t a solo activity. It requires my sacrifice and also my opponents. When I’m talking about his/her money, his/her time, his or her efforts, I’m not going to be so cavalier and “Lighten up” I’m going to try to show up, give them a great game that has them walking away, win or lose saying, “Wow, that is why I play 40K”.

I do hope you read ValentineGames original comment(seems it was deleted) because my comment was aimed at his "nobody is allowed to be facetious or have humor" comment. It's one thing to show up, have a good game, and enjoying the game in the best possible manner. It is an entirely another thing to basically not allow people to be facetious or have humor. Playing the game and having fun are not mutually exclusive things unless you are a Vulcan.

I mean, I've easily spent over 10k on the hobby and countless hours painting, but if I can't allow myself to laugh and poke fun at myself when I play the game it isn't a game anymore. Hell, then it would be worse than my work environment.

People need to stop quoting gak I never fething said

Asmodios wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
The game ain't chess. It doesn't have the merit or the pedigree to be some "holier than thou" game and never will be as it is a product owned by a company engaging in earning profits.

Well said.

There are better games to scratch a true competitive gaming itch. The only reason I play competitive 40k is because it's the best way to play with new people against new lists, and there's no silly stigma against bringing whatever models you want to play. (none of that, "oh you brought THAT, it's a casual game" nonsense).

Then you should love the introduction of the chess clock. Nothing is worse than building and painting a competitive list, driving/flying to a tournament, getting signed in, putting all your models out then having your game only go to turn 2 because an ork player decided to individually measure and move 200 ork boys onto objectives for the sole purpose of not allowing you to actually play against his army. Playing against "new lists" isn't very fun when you never get to play against them because your opponent slow plays. If anything chess clocks will now allow you to actually play said new list and actually use those units that casual players frown upon.

I just haven't encountered this.

I would be curious to know how many people were the victim of someone intentionally depriving their opponent of turns.

Although based on this thread, if you haven't been getting to turn 6 EVERY SINGLE GAME then you're also a "secret slowplayer."

 greyknight12 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I think the difference is that GW believes there is an issue with people not being able to finish in the time allotted, and ITC believes there is an issue with people cheating. There are arguments for moving down to 1750 or 1500 points, but 1500 points isn't going to stop the ork guy from Warhammer World from sitting on his ass until time runs out. He'll just play even slower.

You're only partially right. ITC DOES believe there's an issue with people cheating, but if they wanted to stop that they could have a long time ago by enforcing the blatant examples it apparently took "normal" players watching a stream to catch. The chess clocks came about as a blanket reaction to an artificial "everyone is slow-playing and cheating YOU!" panic post-LVO because the alternative was for ITC to start calling out and/or sanctioning celebrity players.

I'm not against chess clocks, but I'm also for increasing the time and/or lowering the points value of games because that's how you fix a majority of games not finishing on time, especially for new players. You aren't going to fix that problem by making it harder for whatever percentage of the community you think cheats to do so (unless you believe >25% does).

I forget what e[isode of signals from the front line but the ITC guys actually brought up that they had looked into lowering points but 2 things kept them from doing it
1. When doing a poll lowering points was almost universally hated as an idea because
A. People cant play with as many of their toys
B. list variation gets lowered because there are fewer points left over after the "obvious takes
2. Another tournament tried I think 1850 and saw no significant increase in the number of games finished because
A. Intentional slowplay isn't affected by this
B. Unintentional slow players simply perceive they have even more time



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marmatag wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
The game ain't chess. It doesn't have the merit or the pedigree to be some "holier than thou" game and never will be as it is a product owned by a company engaging in earning profits.

Well said.

There are better games to scratch a true competitive gaming itch. The only reason I play competitive 40k is because it's the best way to play with new people against new lists, and there's no silly stigma against bringing whatever models you want to play. (none of that, "oh you brought THAT, it's a casual game" nonsense).

Then you should love the introduction of the chess clock. Nothing is worse than building and painting a competitive list, driving/flying to a tournament, getting signed in, putting all your models out then having your game only go to turn 2 because an ork player decided to individually measure and move 200 ork boys onto objectives for the sole purpose of not allowing you to actually play against his army. Playing against "new lists" isn't very fun when you never get to play against them because your opponent slow plays. If anything chess clocks will now allow you to actually play said new list and actually use those units that casual players frown upon.

I just haven't encountered this.

I would be curious to know how many people were the victim of someone intentionally depriving their opponent of turns.

Although based on this thread, if you haven't been getting to turn 6 EVERY SINGLE GAME then you're also a "secret slowplayer."

It's a significant amount, you can look up the tournament data for the exact amount of games that come to a natural conclusion. Its gotten so bad that GWs official event was ruined by a single player that was able to win the entire event doing this and even GW has decided to try to take action (even though I think their effort isn't going to fix the issue)