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Mellow wrote:
I feel He (The Emperor) is literally one of the very few characters in universe that is able to resist Chaos almost entirely.

Yes, that is why they refer to him as the anathema. He is the polar opposite of them. An ordered being that they cannot (directly) corrupt.

pm713 wrote:

Mellow wrote:
I agree there’s holes in it but it does kind of fit with the whole Eldar hate Chaos mantra. Also I think it’s only really the harlequins that deal with any form of Eldar God (correct me if I’m wrong I’m not up to speed on Eldar lore)

Harlequins deal directly with Cegorach as he's the only Eldar God who's in a decent condition. More recently you have people interacting with Ynnead via the Ynnari and I believe the Phoenix Lords are following a plan of Asuryan based on the Phoenix Lord novels. But Asuryan supposedly foresaw things so he could easily use the Emperor.

So Asuryan has a plan for something? Does it state what he made a plan for specifically?

 Formosa wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Deflection won’t work on me Delvarus, your central premise needs to be clarified first, you have made the original assertion and based your conjecture on that, you prove your basic premise and we can happily work from there, until that happens everything else is flawed.

You can't, answer that. you know you can't. Its not deflection, I've proved everything I need to, you just refuse to accept all the massive amounts of evidence I've given you. You've asked for evidence to prove this happened and you continue to ask for more. Your premise is actually flawed, you took up a position, without even reading the book. You've gotten the lore so wrong on this thread and you couldn't even answer questions on the book and I gave you a lot, you couldn't answer a single one. So there is no point debating with you, unless you answer my question.

And there we have it, back to form, your so predictable

Long story short you have no proof and continue to pass your head cannon off as fact, you have been called out by several on this very thread and still play the victim.

You couldn't answer a single one of these before, lets see if you've actually read the book now: "If you've read the book, what did Malcador and the Emperor talk about? What daemon reared its head again from early on in HH. What did Horus say to Loken? What did Mortarion and Fulgrim talk about? What were Russ and Malcador doing?"

How is the novel saying something happened head cannon. You just don't like accounts of the characters who said it happened.

Playing the victim, when. You lot banding together to stroke your egos doesn't bother me, but you are obviously all wrong, so like I said you people will do anything to prove me wrong because I've done so to you's in the past and you hate my arrogance, plus I proved you never read this novel, that makes you even more mad lol

Yeah thought you couldn't answer them again lol So predictable or just right?

Blah blah blah blah, still waiting for that “proof” you have.

Still couldn't answer the question. I've given you proof, its just proof you don't like.

Mellow wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Mellow wrote:
I agree there’s holes in it but it does kind of fit with the whole Eldar hate Chaos mantra. Also I think it’s only really the harlequins that deal with any form of Eldar God (correct me if I’m wrong I’m not up to speed on Eldar lore)

Harlequins deal directly with Cegorach as he's the only Eldar God who's in a decent condition. More recently you have people interacting with Ynnead via the Ynnari and I believe the Phoenix Lords are following a plan of Asuryan based on the Phoenix Lord novels. But Asuryan supposedly foresaw things so he could easily use the Emperor.

So Asuryan has a plan for something? Does it state what he made a plan for specifically?

No, just the Phoenix Lords gather at their first temple and they all get a vision of what to do next. That and a Farseer who looks at their 'strand' of fate seeing that the Phoenix Lords effectively forge their own path that drags others into it make me think that they're following a plan of Asuryans. I'd guess it's about defeating Chaos as that's the key to restoring the Eldar to their former place.

pm713 wrote:

Mellow wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Mellow wrote:
I agree there’s holes in it but it does kind of fit with the whole Eldar hate Chaos mantra. Also I think it’s only really the harlequins that deal with any form of Eldar God (correct me if I’m wrong I’m not up to speed on Eldar lore)

Harlequins deal directly with Cegorach as he's the only Eldar God who's in a decent condition. More recently you have people interacting with Ynnead via the Ynnari and I believe the Phoenix Lords are following a plan of Asuryan based on the Phoenix Lord novels. But Asuryan supposedly foresaw things so he could easily use the Emperor.

So Asuryan has a plan for something? Does it state what he made a plan for specifically?

No, just the Phoenix Lords gather at their first temple and they all get a vision of what to do next. That and a Farseer who looks at their 'strand' of fate seeing that the Phoenix Lords effectively forge their own path that drags others into it make me think that they're following a plan of Asuryans. I'd guess it's about defeating Chaos as that's the key to restoring the Eldar to their former place.

I'm not sure if Farseers can see a phoenix lords path.

I think a Phoenix lords strand isn’t pre destined but the past can be seen and it intertwined with every souls that merges with that of the Phoenix lord. U see them all coming together I think. The destinati9n not so much. That’s what I got from the path of the eldar books but not read them for a while.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Mellow wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Mellow wrote:
I agree there’s holes in it but it does kind of fit with the whole Eldar hate Chaos mantra. Also I think it’s only really the harlequins that deal with any form of Eldar God (correct me if I’m wrong I’m not up to speed on Eldar lore)

Harlequins deal directly with Cegorach as he's the only Eldar God who's in a decent condition. More recently you have people interacting with Ynnead via the Ynnari and I believe the Phoenix Lords are following a plan of Asuryan based on the Phoenix Lord novels. But Asuryan supposedly foresaw things so he could easily use the Emperor.

So Asuryan has a plan for something? Does it state what he made a plan for specifically?

No, just the Phoenix Lords gather at their first temple and they all get a vision of what to do next. That and a Farseer who looks at their 'strand' of fate seeing that the Phoenix Lords effectively forge their own path that drags others into it make me think that they're following a plan of Asuryans. I'd guess it's about defeating Chaos as that's the key to restoring the Eldar to their former place.

I'm not sure if Farseers can see a phoenix lords path.

You can see where they've been pretty easily. They're like a piece of rope amongst loads of little threads.

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Mellow wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Mellow wrote:
I agree there’s holes in it but it does kind of fit with the whole Eldar hate Chaos mantra. Also I think it’s only really the harlequins that deal with any form of Eldar God (correct me if I’m wrong I’m not up to speed on Eldar lore)

Harlequins deal directly with Cegorach as he's the only Eldar God who's in a decent condition. More recently you have people interacting with Ynnead via the Ynnari and I believe the Phoenix Lords are following a plan of Asuryan based on the Phoenix Lord novels. But Asuryan supposedly foresaw things so he could easily use the Emperor.

So Asuryan has a plan for something? Does it state what he made a plan for specifically?

No, just the Phoenix Lords gather at their first temple and they all get a vision of what to do next. That and a Farseer who looks at their 'strand' of fate seeing that the Phoenix Lords effectively forge their own path that drags others into it make me think that they're following a plan of Asuryans. I'd guess it's about defeating Chaos as that's the key to restoring the Eldar to their former place.

I'm not sure if Farseers can see a phoenix lords path.

You can see where they've been pretty easily. They're like a piece of rope amongst loads of little threads.

Yeah, I think it was path of the seer I think the Farseer tried to see the path of Karandras and couldn't.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Deflection won’t work on me Delvarus, your central premise needs to be clarified first, you have made the original assertion and based your conjecture on that, you prove your basic premise and we can happily work from there, until that happens everything else is flawed.

You can't, answer that. you know you can't. Its not deflection, I've proved everything I need to, you just refuse to accept all the massive amounts of evidence I've given you. You've asked for evidence to prove this happened and you continue to ask for more. Your premise is actually flawed, you took up a position, without even reading the book. You've gotten the lore so wrong on this thread and you couldn't even answer questions on the book and I gave you a lot, you couldn't answer a single one. So there is no point debating with you, unless you answer my question.

And there we have it, back to form, your so predictable

Long story short you have no proof and continue to pass your head cannon off as fact, you have been called out by several on this very thread and still play the victim.

You couldn't answer a single one of these before, lets see if you've actually read the book now: "If you've read the book, what did Malcador and the Emperor talk about? What daemon reared its head again from early on in HH. What did Horus say to Loken? What did Mortarion and Fulgrim talk about? What were Russ and Malcador doing?"

How is the novel saying something happened head cannon. You just don't like accounts of the characters who said it happened.

Playing the victim, when. You lot banding together to stroke your egos doesn't bother me, but you are obviously all wrong, so like I said you people will do anything to prove me wrong because I've done so to you's in the past and you hate my arrogance, plus I proved you never read this novel, that makes you even more mad lol

Yeah thought you couldn't answer them again lol So predictable or just right?

Blah blah blah blah, still waiting for that “proof” you have.

Still couldn't answer the question. I've given you proof, its just proof you don't like.

Re read the thread, still don’t see the proof you posted, I see a lot of theory you passed of as fact and a lot of quotes, none of which answer the questions i have asked you to prove, multiple times.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have re read the thread I mean

 Formosa wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Deflection won’t work on me Delvarus, your central premise needs to be clarified first, you have made the original assertion and based your conjecture on that, you prove your basic premise and we can happily work from there, until that happens everything else is flawed.

You can't, answer that. you know you can't. Its not deflection, I've proved everything I need to, you just refuse to accept all the massive amounts of evidence I've given you. You've asked for evidence to prove this happened and you continue to ask for more. Your premise is actually flawed, you took up a position, without even reading the book. You've gotten the lore so wrong on this thread and you couldn't even answer questions on the book and I gave you a lot, you couldn't answer a single one. So there is no point debating with you, unless you answer my question.

And there we have it, back to form, your so predictable

Long story short you have no proof and continue to pass your head cannon off as fact, you have been called out by several on this very thread and still play the victim.

You couldn't answer a single one of these before, lets see if you've actually read the book now: "If you've read the book, what did Malcador and the Emperor talk about? What daemon reared its head again from early on in HH. What did Horus say to Loken? What did Mortarion and Fulgrim talk about? What were Russ and Malcador doing?"

How is the novel saying something happened head cannon. You just don't like accounts of the characters who said it happened.

Playing the victim, when. You lot banding together to stroke your egos doesn't bother me, but you are obviously all wrong, so like I said you people will do anything to prove me wrong because I've done so to you's in the past and you hate my arrogance, plus I proved you never read this novel, that makes you even more mad lol

Yeah thought you couldn't answer them again lol So predictable or just right?

Blah blah blah blah, still waiting for that “proof” you have.

Still couldn't answer the question. I've given you proof, its just proof you don't like.

Re read the thread, still don’t see the proof you posted, I see a lot of theory you passed of as fact and a lot of quotes, none of which answer the questions i have asked you to prove, multiple times.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have re read the thread I mean

Well you aren't looking very hard. I gave you proof, you just don't like being proven wrong so you have continued to modify your expectation of proof as I give you the proof you ask for, until a point where you will only except the Emperor saying what happened from his own mouth, creating a little bubble for you where you can think you are right. I don't need to prove anything more to you. If you want proof go and actually read the book, you'll find it.

You don't even apply or expect the same burden of proof from yourself, this is you from another thread:

"Plus we already know the origin of the emperor, it hasn’t been retconned."

How do you know the Emperors origin when when the exact instance hasn't been written, or written from the point of view of the Emperor. Why did you not also preface that statement with 'yeah but we weren't there so, technically we can't know.'

I mean this is what your argument sounds like to me.

As far as I’m concerned the “current” lore says He was born in 8,000BC in Anatolia to human parents a year after a mass shaman suicide/sacrifice/plan to create the “new man”.

If the Horus Heresy series or a new novel is released any time from now that contradicts/reboots/amends or replaces that then I will take that new novel as canon.

I have not changed my stance, not a single time, I have requested time and time again that you prove what you have claimed, so far you have not done so, if you have actually done it, why not re post it eh? Since it’s so easy?

As to the emperor, has his origin been retconned? Sacrifice of shamens blah blah blah and all that?

If so, please do show me where, I’d like to read it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mellow wrote:
As far as I’m concerned the “current” lore says He was born in 8,000BC in Anatolia to human parents a year after a mass shaman suicide/sacrifice/plan to create the “new man”.

If the Horus Heresy series or a new novel is released any time from now that contradicts/reboots/amends or replaces that then I will take that new novel as canon.

Yeah I agree with you.

 Formosa wrote:
I have not changed my stance, not a single time, I have requested time and time again that you prove what you have claimed, so far you have not done so, if you have actually done it, why not re post it eh? Since it’s so easy?

As to the emperor, has his origin been retconned? Sacrifice of shamens blah blah blah and all that?

If so, please do show me where, I’d like to read it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mellow wrote:
As far as I’m concerned the “current” lore says He was born in 8,000BC in Anatolia to human parents a year after a mass shaman suicide/sacrifice/plan to create the “new man”.

If the Horus Heresy series or a new novel is released any time from now that contradicts/reboots/amends or replaces that then I will take that new novel as canon.

Yeah I agree with you.

""Sureka knows the emperor got power, really, citation required, and it will have to be SPECIFIC, not a general "he dun got mer powah!" and will have to SPECIFICALLY state EXACTLY what that power is, or you are just engaging in conjecture like the rest of us" "

I gave you proof where she knows exactly what the Emperor got, then you changed your burden of proof to 'tell me what happened exactly in gateway with the Emperor.

The proof is based on her testimony and of Horus' and chaos all saying the same thing. Again did they all accidentally come up with the exact same story, that is very precise, they all knew of the emperor travelling to Molech, the Emperor stealing or bargaining for power. How did three such different testimonies come up with the same story, Alivia coming up with it millenniums before Horus was even made, Horus knowing from being reminded from his first visit to Molech and chaos same version.

You don't except the same burden of proof, you are happy to state factually that the Emperor was born from shamans, but in the same source in rogue trader it says that no one really knows of his origins. But you made a factual claim and didn't say what you are saying here, you didn't say 'yeah but no one actually witnessed it so.'

No you didn’t, you gave me her conjecture, then based yours upon it, Horus testimony is totally warped so unreliable at best.

So post the quote that states everything I have asked for several times.

“As to the emperor, has his origin been retconned”

“If so, please show me where, I’d like to read it”

So yep, I’m happy to say the emperors origin hasn’t changed and it pretty well established, but I’m open to new info that changes it, kind of flies in the face of your last point eh?

 Formosa wrote:
No you didn’t, you gave me her conjecture, then based yours upon it, Horus testimony is totally warped so unreliable at best.

So post the quote that states everything I have asked for several times.

“As to the emperor, has his origin been retconned”

“If so, please show me where, I’d like to read it”

So yep, I’m happy to say the emperors origin hasn’t changed and it pretty well established, but I’m open to new info that changes it, kind of flies in the face of your last point eh?

No the book SAYS, Sureka KNOWS what the Emperor got and the nature of the gateway, that is not conjecture.

Horus' testimony isn't unreliable, nothing suggests that in the book but his testimony isn't that important anyways.

It hasn't been retconned, the shaman theory is just that, a theory.

Of course The Emperor got more power. I mean specifically we don't know what He got. It could be knowledge but according to Sureka the power was bleeding off Him when He returned from the Realm of Chaos.

It may just be that He got a "battery upgrade" instead of just having a car battery in his psychic head He came back with a fusion reactor power up upgrade.

I suspect that is why He's SO glowy and bright when people look at Him. Whether He was like that prior to Molech isn't specifically stated but I'm going to guess He wasn't quite like that before.

Also, in the Rogue Trader source it may well say that no one really knows his origins ... and I also believe that because it's meant to be so long ago in-universe. But I'm OK with it being the perceived truth until (as I say earlier) something more recent comes along to update and/or replace it.

I mean if they do replace it with something else I'm hoping it is suitably amazing.

Mellow wrote:
Of course The Emperor got more power. I mean specifically we don't know what He got. It could be knowledge but according to Sureka the power was bleeding off Him when He returned from the Realm of Chaos.

It may just be that He got a "battery upgrade" instead of just having a car battery in his psychic head He came back with a fusion reactor power up upgrade.

I suspect that is why He's SO glowy and bright when people look at Him. Whether He was like that prior to Molech isn't specifically stated but I'm going to guess He wasn't quite like that before.

Also, in the Rogue Trader source it may well say that no one really knows his origins ... and I also believe that because it's meant to be so long ago in-universe. But I'm OK with it being the perceived truth until (as I say earlier) something more recent comes along to update and/or replace it.

I mean if they do replace it with something else I'm hoping it is suitably amazing.

All I've ever said is that he got power from there. I never said specifically what power he got, although I've shown that Chaos says he got the power to make the Primarchs,and just that Horus got the same powers, but I'll say Horus getting the same powers isn't concrete fact as Sureka only knows what the Emperor got, she assumes Horus got the same, which is another reason why Sureka also knows, including her saying she 'knows' exactly what the Emperor got. But the Emperor did get powers there. Most people on the thread agree with me, that the Emperor got powers, but still we are still here.

Mellow wrote:
Also, in the Rogue Trader source it may well say that no one really knows his origins ... and I also believe that because it's meant to be so long ago in-universe. But I'm OK with it being the perceived truth until (as I say earlier) something more recent comes along to update and/or replace it.

I mean if they do replace it with something else I'm hoping it is suitably amazing.

One of the things I ove about the recent fluff is the idea (shared among some Terran Leaders) that the whole ancient backstory is a lie, and that he’s just a bio-weapon from the Dark Age ofTechnology run amok!

I mean, it’s probably not true but I like the idea that it might be

 ArbitorIan wrote:

Mellow wrote:
Also, in the Rogue Trader source it may well say that no one really knows his origins ... and I also believe that because it's meant to be so long ago in-universe. But I'm OK with it being the perceived truth until (as I say earlier) something more recent comes along to update and/or replace it.

I mean if they do replace it with something else I'm hoping it is suitably amazing.

One of the things I ove about the recent fluff is the idea (shared among some Terran Leaders) that the whole ancient backstory is a lie, and that he’s just a bio-weapon from the Dark Age ofTechnology run amok!

I mean, it’s probably not true but I like the idea that it might be

Well the Primarchs were made so, It wouldn't be crazy for that to have happened.

I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

BrianDavion wrote:
I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

I don't think so, it took the Emperor an exteme amount of concentration to hold chaos back from the webway, he barely was able to speak to anyone, only Ra and Corax briefly, he couldn't even talk to Malcador but we'll leave him out. So I don't think the Emperor could hold back chaos, power and direct the astronomicum and fight Horus all at the same time.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

I don't think so, it took the Emperor an exteme amount of concentration to hold chaos back from the webway, he barely was able to speak to anyone, only Ra and Corax briefly, he couldn't even talk to Malcador but we'll leave him out. So I don't think the Emperor could hold back chaos, power and direct the astronomicum and fight Horus all at the same time.

you're missing the point, I'm not saying the emperor isn't as powerful as he seems to be, I'm saying he's a front man and that the brains of the operation is Malchador.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

I don't think so, it took the Emperor an exteme amount of concentration to hold chaos back from the webway, he barely was able to speak to anyone, only Ra and Corax briefly, he couldn't even talk to Malcador but we'll leave him out. So I don't think the Emperor could hold back chaos, power and direct the astronomicum and fight Horus all at the same time.

you're missing the point, I'm not saying the emperor isn't as powerful as he seems to be, I'm saying he's a front man and that the brains of the operation is Malchador.

No, what I mean is that only malcador could have powered and guided the astronomicum and held chaos back from the webway while the Emperor fought Horus, I doubt the Emperor could have done all of that himself and fight Horus, because he'd have to by himself if he was also Malcador.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

I don't think so, it took the Emperor an exteme amount of concentration to hold chaos back from the webway, he barely was able to speak to anyone, only Ra and Corax briefly, he couldn't even talk to Malcador but we'll leave him out. So I don't think the Emperor could hold back chaos, power and direct the astronomicum and fight Horus all at the same time.

you're missing the point, I'm not saying the emperor isn't as powerful as he seems to be, I'm saying he's a front man and that the brains of the operation is Malchador.

No, what I mean is that only malcador could have powered and guided the astronomicum and held chaos back from the webway while the Emperor fought Horus, I doubt the Emperor could have done all of that himself and fight Horus, because he'd have to by himself if he was also Malcador.

He not saying the emperor was malcador. He was saying that malcador was the real brains of the operation and the emperor (a separate person) was a showy frontman selling it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Out of interest Delvarus how old are u?

Andykp wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

I don't think so, it took the Emperor an exteme amount of concentration to hold chaos back from the webway, he barely was able to speak to anyone, only Ra and Corax briefly, he couldn't even talk to Malcador but we'll leave him out. So I don't think the Emperor could hold back chaos, power and direct the astronomicum and fight Horus all at the same time.

you're missing the point, I'm not saying the emperor isn't as powerful as he seems to be, I'm saying he's a front man and that the brains of the operation is Malchador.

No, what I mean is that only malcador could have powered and guided the astronomicum and held chaos back from the webway while the Emperor fought Horus, I doubt the Emperor could have done all of that himself and fight Horus, because he'd have to by himself if he was also Malcador.

He not saying the emperor was malcador. He was saying that malcador was the real brains of the operation and the emperor (a separate person) was a showy frontman selling it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Out of interest Delvarus how old are u?

I know what he's saying. But if malcador was the real brains then how is Malcador going to power and direct the astronomicum, hold back chaos and fight Horus at the same time. If the Emperor is just a showy figure head, why would Malcador send him to fight Horus, who would sit on the throne and do what Malcador did. Malcador can't just be the brains, he also has to be a being as powerful as the Emperor and if Malcador was going to fight Horus who'd take his place on the golden throne? Because whoever the Emperor was, they couldn't do all that needed to be done on the throne and fight Horus.
There needs to be a powerful psyker on the golden throne and a powerful psyker to fight Horus, If the real emperor was on the throne and the figure head fought Horus then the Emperor would be fine and still be alive. If the figure head was on the throne and Malcador fought Horus, Ah actually Malcador still could have fought Horus and the figure head would die on the throne, that could be right never mind what I said.
What does my age have to do with anything?

Just wondering. It could explain a lot.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

I don't think so, it took the Emperor an exteme amount of concentration to hold chaos back from the webway, he barely was able to speak to anyone, only Ra and Corax briefly, he couldn't even talk to Malcador but we'll leave him out. So I don't think the Emperor could hold back chaos, power and direct the astronomicum and fight Horus all at the same time.

you're missing the point, I'm not saying the emperor isn't as powerful as he seems to be, I'm saying he's a front man and that the brains of the operation is Malchador.

No, what I mean is that only malcador could have powered and guided the astronomicum and held chaos back from the webway while the Emperor fought Horus, I doubt the Emperor could have done all of that himself and fight Horus, because he'd have to by himself if he was also Malcador.

He not saying the emperor was malcador. He was saying that malcador was the real brains of the operation and the emperor (a separate person) was a showy frontman selling it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Out of interest Delvarus how old are u?

I know what he's saying.

This is one of the more amusing quotes of this overlong thread. Everything you state after that sentence shows you don't really know what he's saying at all. It's quite illuminating, in fact, as a demonstration of the way you tend to debate things. BTW, I'm pretty sure nobody is saying Malcador was the brains behind the operation but it's still an amusing theory.

Andykp wrote:
Just wondering. It could explain a lot.

From anyone else I might take that seriously, not from you Andy though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

I don't think so, it took the Emperor an exteme amount of concentration to hold chaos back from the webway, he barely was able to speak to anyone, only Ra and Corax briefly, he couldn't even talk to Malcador but we'll leave him out. So I don't think the Emperor could hold back chaos, power and direct the astronomicum and fight Horus all at the same time.

you're missing the point, I'm not saying the emperor isn't as powerful as he seems to be, I'm saying he's a front man and that the brains of the operation is Malchador.

No, what I mean is that only malcador could have powered and guided the astronomicum and held chaos back from the webway while the Emperor fought Horus, I doubt the Emperor could have done all of that himself and fight Horus, because he'd have to by himself if he was also Malcador.

He not saying the emperor was malcador. He was saying that malcador was the real brains of the operation and the emperor (a separate person) was a showy frontman selling it.


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Out of interest Delvarus how old are u?

I know what he's saying.

This is one of the more amusing quotes of this overlong thread. Everything you state after that sentence shows you don't really know what he's saying at all. It's quite illuminating, in fact, as a demonstration of the way you tend to debate things. BTW, I'm pretty sure nobody is saying Malcador was the brains behind the operation but it's still an amusing theory.

I did know what he was saying, I was trying to debunk that with logic but then I just found out that I was wrong in what I was thinking, I was left wanting in this example, logic dun failed me, so what. Look back on your comments on this thread. I wouldn't bring up my debating skills. All your debating tactics are pretty poor, I said the Emperor got powers on Molech, everyone contradicts me, 9 pages of the thread later, everyone agrees with me.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Just wondering. It could explain a lot.

From anyone else I might take that seriously, not from you Andy though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

I don't think so, it took the Emperor an exteme amount of concentration to hold chaos back from the webway, he barely was able to speak to anyone, only Ra and Corax briefly, he couldn't even talk to Malcador but we'll leave him out. So I don't think the Emperor could hold back chaos, power and direct the astronomicum and fight Horus all at the same time.

you're missing the point, I'm not saying the emperor isn't as powerful as he seems to be, I'm saying he's a front man and that the brains of the operation is Malchador.

No, what I mean is that only malcador could have powered and guided the astronomicum and held chaos back from the webway while the Emperor fought Horus, I doubt the Emperor could have done all of that himself and fight Horus, because he'd have to by himself if he was also Malcador.

He not saying the emperor was malcador. He was saying that malcador was the real brains of the operation and the emperor (a separate person) was a showy frontman selling it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Out of interest Delvarus how old are u?

I know what he's saying.

This is one of the more amusing quotes of this overlong thread. Everything you state after that sentence shows you don't really know what he's saying at all. It's quite illuminating, in fact, as a demonstration of the way you tend to debate things. BTW, I'm pretty sure nobody is saying Malcador was the brains behind the operation but it's still an amusing theory.

I did know what he was saying, I was trying to debunk that with logic but then I just found out that I was wrong in what I was thinking, I was left wanting in this example, logic dun failed me, so what. Look back on your comments on this thread. I wouldn't bring up my debating skills. All your debating tactics are pretty poor, I said the Emperor got powers on Molech, everyone contradicts me, 9 pages of the thread later, everyone agrees with me.

I think you may be confused. I don't think anyone has debated whether the Emperor got powers on Molech. We're all in agreement about that. The debate is about the nature of those powers, specifically as they relate to what Horus got. If you're not even sure what the discussion is about it's no wonder you're having trouble understanding people's arguments.

Slipspace wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Just wondering. It could explain a lot.

From anyone else I might take that seriously, not from you Andy though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

I don't think so, it took the Emperor an exteme amount of concentration to hold chaos back from the webway, he barely was able to speak to anyone, only Ra and Corax briefly, he couldn't even talk to Malcador but we'll leave him out. So I don't think the Emperor could hold back chaos, power and direct the astronomicum and fight Horus all at the same time.

you're missing the point, I'm not saying the emperor isn't as powerful as he seems to be, I'm saying he's a front man and that the brains of the operation is Malchador.

No, what I mean is that only malcador could have powered and guided the astronomicum and held chaos back from the webway while the Emperor fought Horus, I doubt the Emperor could have done all of that himself and fight Horus, because he'd have to by himself if he was also Malcador.

He not saying the emperor was malcador. He was saying that malcador was the real brains of the operation and the emperor (a separate person) was a showy frontman selling it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Out of interest Delvarus how old are u?

I know what he's saying.

This is one of the more amusing quotes of this overlong thread. Everything you state after that sentence shows you don't really know what he's saying at all. It's quite illuminating, in fact, as a demonstration of the way you tend to debate things. BTW, I'm pretty sure nobody is saying Malcador was the brains behind the operation but it's still an amusing theory.

I did know what he was saying, I was trying to debunk that with logic but then I just found out that I was wrong in what I was thinking, I was left wanting in this example, logic dun failed me, so what. Look back on your comments on this thread. I wouldn't bring up my debating skills. All your debating tactics are pretty poor, I said the Emperor got powers on Molech, everyone contradicts me, 9 pages of the thread later, everyone agrees with me.

I think you may be confused. I don't think anyone has debated whether the Emperor got powers on Molech. We're all in agreement about that. The debate is about the nature of those powers, specifically as they relate to what Horus got. If you're not even sure what the discussion is about it's no wonder you're having trouble understanding people's arguments.

I've never said exactly what the Emperor got, just that he got powers, so I don't know were you get that from. People were debating, saying we don't know what I he got and through the thread I've given countless evidence, proving that he got 'powers' and then you all agreed, I was giving a dog a bone, by just saying you all agree with me, you only agree with me now. Re-read the thread, you'll see.

I mean this is your quote, arguing when I said he got powers:

"We know Sureka was there when the Emperor first went to Molech and we know she was there when he came out of the Chaos gate. She was there when Horus arrived too. We know the Emperor got something while inside the Warp but the exact nature of what he achieved is completely unknown. Only the Emperor can say for sure. It seems likely it had something to do with the creation of the Primarchs. We also know Horus later enters the same Warp gate and Sureka believes he has struck the same deal with the Chaos gods. Horus also believes this to be the case, but claims he earned by right the power that the Emperor stole through deception and lies. I have no doubt that Sureka and Horus are both sincere in their beliefs but the point is neither of them know for sure what the Emperor received from the Chaos gods. Given the nature of the Chaos gods it seems much more likely any bargain they make is going to be quite nebulous in nature. Something along the lines of giving the Emperor/Horus the "power to defeat their enemies" rather than just handing over a genetic blueprint for the Primarchs or a foolproof battleplan for the siege of Terra.

So we don't really know what either the Emperor or Horus got, so we can't say for sure whether they got the same thing. To me it seems likely they didn't as their goals and methods were very different, beyond a very general desire to conquer the galaxy. It also seems likely that Horus was deluded. That entire passage about how he acquired his power, that you quoted yourself, is textbook wish fulfilment. Horus believes the Emperor stole his power from the gods while he earned his honourably. Nobody except the Chaos gods knows for sure. Anyone else involved doesn't have the full picture, including Sureka. That leaves the whole thing open for interpretation."