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There should be harsh repercussions for cheating, and they should extend beyond just the one event. If someone's caught cheating at a tournament like this, there should be at least a one-year ban, not just from the event in question, but others like LVO. And repeat offenders should absolutely be permanently banned from these events. It's grossly unfair to have people pay an entrance fee, buy a plane ticket to the event, hotel rooms for the weekend, etc., all of whom come expecting a level playing field, only to have them cheated at the table. I have sympathy for the people who make an honest mistake, like four Enginseers, but there should absolutely be a Zero Tolerance policy. If you're an honest player, then check and double check your list over again to be certain you meet all the guidelines and have others check it over for you and you'll be fine. I was looking up the people in question, and they were the winners of past events. That begs the question, how many times in the past did they cheat? How many honest players, who laid out all that money, time, and effort expecting a fair playing field, did they screw over? How many separate events and outcomes were tainted by their presence?

So yeah, a Zero Tolerance policy is the best policy. If the competitive scene is to grow, it has to foster a legitimately competitive atmosphere, one of genuine competition in which all participants play fairly, not excuse or ignore cheating or poor sportsmanlike behavior. As for the cheaters, if they were in fact cheating, continued to cheat after they'd been caught, and have a history of cheating or otherwise poor behavior in the past, then the major TO's should put them on a list banning them from their events in the future. The vast mass of players who attend these events deserve far better than to have the competitive event they attend tainted by cheaters and bad actors.

 quickfuze wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The official press release from conference organizers calls out the problems with the mob mentality and how inaccurate it is. The conversation on Dakka becomes more persecutorial with no attempt to correct the record. Accusations that TOs are trying to "line their pockets" - which is absolutely ludicrous - go unchallenged.

Searching for problems under a microscope and making it sound like a huge cheating scandal exists really delights some people. Tournaments don't appeal to me precisely because of this aspect. Happens even at the smallest events, no win is actually a win until the Inquisition are done running their mouths.

ATC is a fine event, no one cheated and the people complaining about it don't have their facts straight.

Yeah like Shane would actually come out and say "our event was garbage and we handled this wrong". The fact is it wasn't as Rosey as Shane wants to make it out, and probably not as bad as the internet "mob" is making it. But if you're taking that whitewash "official" statement as gospel, that's very naive. And...TOs do make money off these events.

Mmm hmm.

So I guess the people from Team Happy were going around telling TOs to F themselves, TOs were giving themselves a few thousand each to make it worth it, it was all done to screw the hundreds of poor, defenseless players that were stupid enough to register, and all the other garbage in this thread actually happened.

Do you know how stupid that sounds? I mean, if you stop for a moment and think about it, there are a lot of outrageous claims being made. What are the odds even one of them could prove to be true, much less the dozens people are spouting off about?

Here's a tool that could help you separate reality from fantasy. Read it and compare it with the claims made in this thread.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The official press release from conference organizers calls out the problems with the mob mentality and how inaccurate it is. The conversation on Dakka becomes more persecutorial with no attempt to correct the record. Accusations that TOs are trying to "line their pockets" - which is absolutely ludicrous - go unchallenged.

Searching for problems under a microscope and making it sound like a huge cheating scandal exists really delights some people. Tournaments don't appeal to me precisely because of this aspect. Happens even at the smallest events, no win is actually a win until the Inquisition are done running their mouths.

ATC is a fine event, no one cheated and the people complaining about it don't have their facts straight.

Yeah like Shane would actually come out and say "our event was garbage and we handled this wrong". The fact is it wasn't as Rosey as Shane wants to make it out, and probably not as bad as the internet "mob" is making it. But if you're taking that whitewash "official" statement as gospel, that's very naive. And...TOs do make money off these events.

Mmm hmm.

So I guess the people from Team Happy were going around telling TOs to F themselves, TOs were giving themselves a few thousand each to make it worth it, it was all done to screw the hundreds of poor, defenseless players that were stupid enough to register, and all the other garbage in this thread actually happened.

Do you know how stupid that sounds? I mean, if you stop for a moment and think about it, there are a lot of outrageous claims being made. What are the odds even one of them could prove to be true, much less the dozens people are spouting off about?

Here's a tool that could help you separate reality from fantasy. Read it and compare it with the claims made in this thread.

No I don't believe that they told the judge to go f themselves. I believe what was said is as reported. The player said, I'm not going to do that to the judges ruling. The opponent tired of having his round time eaten, decided to just let it go and the team happy player received a warning for his actions. Let that sink in there... The judge made a ruling and the player said nahhhh. Again, the claims on here are not that outlandish and neither is the necessity for a more solid code of conduct with penalties and enforcement necessary for competitive 40k.

The rumor was the player told the judge to F themselves. The judge reported differently which is why nothing was done.

Interesting bit from FtN:

The players had been arguing for 25 min over whether something could charge.

This is one of those things that requires a cultural shift in the players to start treating judges as a resource. The instant there's a disagreement you call the judge; not to blame the other player, but simply to get a neutral answer immediately and keep the game going.

One of my favorite memories at a GT some 15 years ago.

Necrons vs space wolves.

Necron player deep strikes the monolith in and attacks everything.

Space wolf player throws a very large tantrum (red faced, voice cracking, high volume) and states the monolith cannot attack all of his bikes because they are "models" and nothing has the "model" rule.

Judge tells necron player he's fine. Space wolf player raises his tantrum to the next level. Judge concedes to space wolf player that technically bikes don't have the model keyword so cannot be targeted.

I kid you not. This happened. At an official GW tournament.

And this is why judges need to be firm and not passive.

 quickfuze wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Mmm hmm.

So I guess the people from Team Happy were going around telling TOs to F themselves, TOs were giving themselves a few thousand each to make it worth it, it was all done to screw the hundreds of poor, defenseless players that were stupid enough to register, and all the other garbage in this thread actually happened.

Do you know how stupid that sounds? I mean, if you stop for a moment and think about it, there are a lot of outrageous claims being made. What are the odds even one of them could prove to be true, much less the dozens people are spouting off about?

Here's a tool that could help you separate reality from fantasy. Read it and compare it with the claims made in this thread.

No I don't believe that they told the judge to go f themselves. I believe what was said is as reported. The player said, I'm not going to do that to the judges ruling. The opponent tired of having his round time eaten, decided to just let it go and the team happy player received a warning for his actions. Let that sink in there... The judge made a ruling and the player said nahhhh. Again, the claims on here are not that outlandish and neither is the necessity for a more solid code of conduct with penalties and enforcement necessary for competitive 40k.

Let me make sure I'm clear on what you're saying. TOs should be able to instantly recall details covering the entire 40k ruleset, make decisions on the spot that players automatically have to abide by, and receive no compensation for the effort. All while withstanding criticism at the event and worldwide afterwards, to the point where TOs are treated like liars and thieves.

That makes perfect sense. You are very persuasive.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Let me make sure I'm clear on what you're saying. TOs should be able to instantly recall details covering the entire 40k ruleset, make decisions on the spot that players automatically have to abide by, and receive no compensation for the effort. All while withstanding criticism at the event and worldwide afterwards, to the point where I should treat the TOs like liars and thieves.

That makes perfect sense. You are very persuasive.

That's..... pretty much how it has to work unfortunately. That said, its very helpful to have an appeal/escalation policy in place at larger events with multiple judges. Overall though, the judges job is to provide the best answer they can to keep the game going with as little delay as possible. Their answer needs to be law, but by the same token, that places the burden or gameplay errors on their shoulders.

 LunarSol wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Let me make sure I'm clear on what you're saying. TOs should be able to instantly recall details covering the entire 40k ruleset, make decisions on the spot that players automatically have to abide by, and receive no compensation for the effort. All while withstanding criticism at the event and worldwide afterwards, to the point where I should treat the TOs like liars and thieves.

That makes perfect sense. You are very persuasive.

That's..... pretty much how it has to work unfortunately. That said, its very helpful to have an appeal/escalation policy in place at larger events with multiple judges. Overall though, the judges job is to provide the best answer they can to keep the game going with as little delay as possible. Their answer needs to be law, but by the same token, that places the burden or gameplay errors on their shoulders.

Why? That's impossible.

Putting absurd expectations on volunteers who are organizing events for you out of the kindness of their hearts does not make better tournaments. It just puts the drama and rumor mongering on a bigger and stupider stage.

I heard one of the judges has quit.

 quickfuze wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The official press release from conference organizers calls out the problems with the mob mentality and how inaccurate it is. The conversation on Dakka becomes more persecutorial with no attempt to correct the record. Accusations that TOs are trying to "line their pockets" - which is absolutely ludicrous - go unchallenged.

Searching for problems under a microscope and making it sound like a huge cheating scandal exists really delights some people. Tournaments don't appeal to me precisely because of this aspect. Happens even at the smallest events, no win is actually a win until the Inquisition are done running their mouths.

ATC is a fine event, no one cheated and the people complaining about it don't have their facts straight.

Yeah like Shane would actually come out and say "our event was garbage and we handled this wrong". The fact is it wasn't as Rosey as Shane wants to make it out, and probably not as bad as the internet "mob" is making it. But if you're taking that whitewash "official" statement as gospel, that's very naive. And...TOs do make money off these events.

Mmm hmm.

So I guess the people from Team Happy were going around telling TOs to F themselves, TOs were giving themselves a few thousand each to make it worth it, it was all done to screw the hundreds of poor, defenseless players that were stupid enough to register, and all the other garbage in this thread actually happened.

Do you know how stupid that sounds? I mean, if you stop for a moment and think about it, there are a lot of outrageous claims being made. What are the odds even one of them could prove to be true, much less the dozens people are spouting off about?

Here's a tool that could help you separate reality from fantasy. Read it and compare it with the claims made in this thread.

No I don't believe that they told the judge to go f themselves. I believe what was said is as reported. The player said, I'm not going to do that to the judges ruling. The opponent tired of having his round time eaten, decided to just let it go and the team happy player received a warning for his actions. Let that sink in there... The judge made a ruling and the player said nahhhh. Again, the claims on here are not that outlandish and neither is the necessity for a more solid code of conduct with penalties and enforcement necessary for competitive 40k.

This is not what happened, please stop spreading false information.

The facts are:

The Team Happy player was what he considered being grossly slow played. After half the game time was up and already exhaustively trying to work it out at the table, he did what the tournament packet suggested and called a judge to his table.

He explained to the judge that he was concerned that the game would not make it through turn 4 and requested to play through the judge because his opponent was completely uncooperative at this point.

Then after a additional 15 - 25 minutes was wasted by his opponent with the judge present, the conversation got a little heated and he refused to be bullied by his opponent and declined the judges suggestion to dice off a clearly evident situation.

The game moved on from there in accordance with the ATC statement.

All other accounts of these events are categorically false.

The game was not close at any point and all claims about slow play by the Team Happy player are completely false and made up. The entire situation was because the Team Happy player wanted to get through 4 or 5 turns, so that he did not receive a time penalty and his opponent simple did not.

For the record the Team Happy's player's two previous games versus guard went 4 and 6 turns respectively.

To summerize:

The game was not close.

There was no real rules disputes.

The team Happy player was worried about getting a time penalty.

The team Happy player called the judge.

The conversation got heated.

The situation was eventually resolved.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Mmm hmm.

So I guess the people from Team Happy were going around telling TOs to F themselves, TOs were giving themselves a few thousand each to make it worth it, it was all done to screw the hundreds of poor, defenseless players that were stupid enough to register, and all the other garbage in this thread actually happened.

Do you know how stupid that sounds? I mean, if you stop for a moment and think about it, there are a lot of outrageous claims being made. What are the odds even one of them could prove to be true, much less the dozens people are spouting off about?

Here's a tool that could help you separate reality from fantasy. Read it and compare it with the claims made in this thread.

No I don't believe that they told the judge to go f themselves. I believe what was said is as reported. The player said, I'm not going to do that to the judges ruling. The opponent tired of having his round time eaten, decided to just let it go and the team happy player received a warning for his actions. Let that sink in there... The judge made a ruling and the player said nahhhh. Again, the claims on here are not that outlandish and neither is the necessity for a more solid code of conduct with penalties and enforcement necessary for competitive 40k.

Let me make sure I'm clear on what you're saying. TOs should be able to instantly recall details covering the entire 40k ruleset, make decisions on the spot that players automatically have to abide by, and receive no compensation for the effort. All while withstanding criticism at the event and worldwide afterwards, to the point where TOs are treated like liars and thieves.

That makes perfect sense. You are very persuasive.

.

It doesn't matter what they recall, in order to keep things moving, their determination is law. You can put an appeal process in place if you want, floor judge to head judge or whatever, but to simply say no I'm not going to do that should be grounds for immediate dismissal.

Your passive aggressiveness is cute, so is your attempt at pseudo intellectualism. I can see that you are going to white Knight this no matter what, so wasting time on you is no longer productive to the discussion.

 quickfuze wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Mmm hmm.

So I guess the people from Team Happy were going around telling TOs to F themselves, TOs were giving themselves a few thousand each to make it worth it, it was all done to screw the hundreds of poor, defenseless players that were stupid enough to register, and all the other garbage in this thread actually happened.

Do you know how stupid that sounds? I mean, if you stop for a moment and think about it, there are a lot of outrageous claims being made. What are the odds even one of them could prove to be true, much less the dozens people are spouting off about?

Here's a tool that could help you separate reality from fantasy. Read it and compare it with the claims made in this thread.

No I don't believe that they told the judge to go f themselves. I believe what was said is as reported. The player said, I'm not going to do that to the judges ruling. The opponent tired of having his round time eaten, decided to just let it go and the team happy player received a warning for his actions. Let that sink in there... The judge made a ruling and the player said nahhhh. Again, the claims on here are not that outlandish and neither is the necessity for a more solid code of conduct with penalties and enforcement necessary for competitive 40k.

Let me make sure I'm clear on what you're saying. TOs should be able to instantly recall details covering the entire 40k ruleset, make decisions on the spot that players automatically have to abide by, and receive no compensation for the effort. All while withstanding criticism at the event and worldwide afterwards, to the point where TOs are treated like liars and thieves.

That makes perfect sense. You are very persuasive.

.

It doesn't matter what they recall, in order to keep things moving, their determination is law. You can put an appeal process in place if you want, floor judge to head judge or whatever, but to simply say no I'm not going to do that should be grounds for immediate dismissal.

Your passive aggressiveness is cute, so is your attempt at pseudo intellectualism. I can see that you are going to white Knight this no matter what, so wasting time on you is no longer productive to the discussion.

Withdrawing is a good defense from reason. Call people thieves and liars then tell others their points don't matter when you get called out on it.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Let me make sure I'm clear on what you're saying. TOs should be able to instantly recall details covering the entire 40k ruleset, make decisions on the spot that players automatically have to abide by, and receive no compensation for the effort. All while withstanding criticism at the event and worldwide afterwards, to the point where I should treat the TOs like liars and thieves.

That makes perfect sense. You are very persuasive.

That's..... pretty much how it has to work unfortunately. That said, its very helpful to have an appeal/escalation policy in place at larger events with multiple judges. Overall though, the judges job is to provide the best answer they can to keep the game going with as little delay as possible. Their answer needs to be law, but by the same token, that places the burden or gameplay errors on their shoulders.

Why? That's impossible.

Putting absurd expectations on volunteers who are organizing events for you out of the kindness of their hearts does not make better tournaments. It just puts the drama and rumor mongering on a bigger and stupider stage.

No its not. Plenty of game systems get the job done. Good judges make for good events.

It would of course be idea if they were compensated properly for their work. Realistically there's not a lot of money available to do so beyond something likes meals and occasionally lodging. I'm not sure what entry fees would have to start looking like to change that, but I doubt it would go over well.

There are quite a few new accounts posting here

The ATC is normally a great event. Hopefully this does not tarnish their reputation (other issues havent seemed to affect LVO's reputation luckily)

emperorprotectsall wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The official press release from conference organizers calls out the problems with the mob mentality and how inaccurate it is. The conversation on Dakka becomes more persecutorial with no attempt to correct the record. Accusations that TOs are trying to "line their pockets" - which is absolutely ludicrous - go unchallenged.

Searching for problems under a microscope and making it sound like a huge cheating scandal exists really delights some people. Tournaments don't appeal to me precisely because of this aspect. Happens even at the smallest events, no win is actually a win until the Inquisition are done running their mouths.

ATC is a fine event, no one cheated and the people complaining about it don't have their facts straight.

Yeah like Shane would actually come out and say "our event was garbage and we handled this wrong". The fact is it wasn't as Rosey as Shane wants to make it out, and probably not as bad as the internet "mob" is making it. But if you're taking that whitewash "official" statement as gospel, that's very naive. And...TOs do make money off these events.

Mmm hmm.

So I guess the people from Team Happy were going around telling TOs to F themselves, TOs were giving themselves a few thousand each to make it worth it, it was all done to screw the hundreds of poor, defenseless players that were stupid enough to register, and all the other garbage in this thread actually happened.

Do you know how stupid that sounds? I mean, if you stop for a moment and think about it, there are a lot of outrageous claims being made. What are the odds even one of them could prove to be true, much less the dozens people are spouting off about?

Here's a tool that could help you separate reality from fantasy. Read it and compare it with the claims made in this thread.

No I don't believe that they told the judge to go f themselves. I believe what was said is as reported. The player said, I'm not going to do that to the judges ruling. The opponent tired of having his round time eaten, decided to just let it go and the team happy player received a warning for his actions. Let that sink in there... The judge made a ruling and the player said nahhhh. Again, the claims on here are not that outlandish and neither is the necessity for a more solid code of conduct with penalties and enforcement necessary for competitive 40k.

This is not what happened, please stop spreading false information.

The facts are:

The Team Happy player was what he considered being grossly slow played. After half the game time was up and already exhaustively trying to work it out at the table, he did what the tournament packet suggested and called a judge to his table.

He explained to the judge that he was concerned that the game would not make it through turn 4 and requested to play through the judge because his opponent was completely uncooperative at this point.

Then after a additional 15 - 25 minutes was wasted by his opponent with the judge present, the conversation got a little heated and he refused to be bullied by his opponent and declined the judges suggestion to dice off a clearly evident situation.

The game moved on from there in accordance with the ATC statement.

All other accounts of these events are categorically false.

The game was not close at any point and all claims about slow play by the Team Happy player are completely false and made up. The entire situation was because the Team Happy player wanted to get through 4 or 5 turns, so that he did not receive a time penalty and his opponent simple did not.

For the record the Team Happy's player's two previous games versus guard went 4 and 6 turns respectively.

To summerize:

The game was not close.

There was no real rules disputes.

The team Happy player was worried about getting a time penalty.

The team Happy player called the judge.

The conversation got heated.

The situation was eventually resolved.

Good to know.

 LunarSol wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Let me make sure I'm clear on what you're saying. TOs should be able to instantly recall details covering the entire 40k ruleset, make decisions on the spot that players automatically have to abide by, and receive no compensation for the effort. All while withstanding criticism at the event and worldwide afterwards, to the point where I should treat the TOs like liars and thieves.

That makes perfect sense. You are very persuasive.

That's..... pretty much how it has to work unfortunately. That said, its very helpful to have an appeal/escalation policy in place at larger events with multiple judges. Overall though, the judges job is to provide the best answer they can to keep the game going with as little delay as possible. Their answer needs to be law, but by the same token, that places the burden or gameplay errors on their shoulders.

Why? That's impossible.

Putting absurd expectations on volunteers who are organizing events for you out of the kindness of their hearts does not make better tournaments. It just puts the drama and rumor mongering on a bigger and stupider stage.

No its not. Plenty of game systems get the job done. Good judges make for good events.

It would of course be idea if they were compensated properly for their work. Realistically there's not a lot of money available to do so beyond something likes meals and occasionally lodging. I'm not sure what entry fees would have to start looking like to change that, but I doubt it would go over well.

Great. Tell us what those game systems are. For that matter, tell us why simply having good judges means you are going to have a good event.

I would say Adepticon or NOVA have the best judges. Not everyone has a good time at those and people still love to go off about all the "cheating."

If there's one thing that would improve the 40k tournament system, it would be enforcing a policy of "assuming the best" amongst participants, judges and the like. If I were a TO, I would be identifying some of the people spreading lies and misinformation in this thread and making sure they never attend any organized event again.

Seriously, the only thing ATC TOs have not been accused of (yet) is murder. Why hasn't anyone checked the crime blotter yet to match physical descriptions and called the cops?

 Stevefamine wrote:
There are quite a few new accounts posting here

The ATC is normally a great event. Hopefully this does not tarnish their reputation (other issues havent seemed to affect LVO's reputation luckily)

I found it really poorly run and the judging awful. I'm fairly sure, drama aside, I won't be back.

Rynner wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
There are quite a few new accounts posting here

The ATC is normally a great event. Hopefully this does not tarnish their reputation (other issues havent seemed to affect LVO's reputation luckily)

I found it really poorly run and the judging awful. I'm fairly sure, drama aside, I won't be back.

I went during 5th/6th edition 40k. Who knows - maybe the event has been run poorly recently. Did you team enjoy it?

I highly recommend the team event at Adepticon as a replacement!

Yeah I would be wary of what is being said by new accounts. They may well be right and truthful but they could just as easily be those punished trying to create a false narrative.

Wouldn't be the first time.

 Stevefamine wrote:

Rynner wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
There are quite a few new accounts posting here

The ATC is normally a great event. Hopefully this does not tarnish their reputation (other issues havent seemed to affect LVO's reputation luckily)

I found it really poorly run and the judging awful. I'm fairly sure, drama aside, I won't be back.

I went during 5th/6th edition 40k. Who knows - maybe the event has been run poorly recently. Did you team enjoy it?

I highly recommend the team event at Adepticon as a replacement!

50-50.

When some has a very low post count and are directly posting here with alternative views it is very hard to trust what they have to say.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
There's a difference between excusing a behavior, and mitigating the punishment for that behavior. Running an illegal list breaks a rule, but there is a range of actions a TO can do to remedy that rulebreaking.

You can look at things like any attempts to hide the rule breaking, the savviness of the offender, how beneficial that was, etc.

TO's main job isn't to enforce the highest level of competition, but rather host an event that's fun for all attendees. Being DQ'd for a dumb error is the opposite of fun.

You know what else isn't fun? Having my opponent get away with cheating and keep playing. DQ and remove them from event property. If people know the penalty for an illegal list is crying in their hotel room over $1000 in wasted travel expenses they'll be damn careful about avoiding mistakes. Until then people will keep cheating and ruining it for the rest of us.

That literally happens in no sport, you know ones with real money involved.
I can shoot myself in the foot at a USPSA match, get DQ'd and still stay to watch the other competitors. Quit talking nonsense about banning them from the tables.

There are definitely some posts here that lead me to think people believe players are ejected from a football game for being offsides.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
There's a difference between excusing a behavior, and mitigating the punishment for that behavior. Running an illegal list breaks a rule, but there is a range of actions a TO can do to remedy that rulebreaking.

You can look at things like any attempts to hide the rule breaking, the savviness of the offender, how beneficial that was, etc.

TO's main job isn't to enforce the highest level of competition, but rather host an event that's fun for all attendees. Being DQ'd for a dumb error is the opposite of fun.

You know what else isn't fun? Having my opponent get away with cheating and keep playing. DQ and remove them from event property. If people know the penalty for an illegal list is crying in their hotel room over $1000 in wasted travel expenses they'll be damn careful about avoiding mistakes. Until then people will keep cheating and ruining it for the rest of us.

That literally happens in no sport, you know ones with real money involved.
I can shoot myself in the foot at a USPSA match, get DQ'd and still stay to watch the other competitors. Quit talking nonsense about banning them from the tables.

Ever since he got banned from every Red Lobster in the state for the "incident". He just wants revenge on the world.

At worst case there are some serious cheaters that are skilled at manipulating TO and judges to their advantage.

 Primark G wrote:
At worst case there are some serious cheaters that are skilled at manipulating TO and judges to their advantage.

That is indeed a common complaint in many sports.

I think the saddest part of the whole thing is the constant defense of the behavior by FLG, the ATC crew, and effectively the rest of the 40k talking heads. Once you're one of the cool kids you're in, cheat all you like, you won't be punished and instead you'll be defended as 'a great guy who just had a lapse in judgement'.

Pretty much so unless they catch you on twitch.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
I think the saddest part of the whole thing is the constant defense of the behavior by FLG, the ATC crew, and effectively the rest of the 40k talking heads. Once you're one of the cool kids you're in, cheat all you like, you won't be punished and instead you'll be defended as 'a great guy who just had a lapse in judgement'.

This is pretty far from the truth. Several members of team happy are pretty prevalent in the gaming scene and they got hit. QC has a guys that are pretty prominent in the scene and they took a loss based on an error made by a guy who plays twice a year. Granted Happy has a player or two with an unfortunate reputation which is likely to draw more ire than any other team out there.

I think there is a lot of truth to it. The explanation given by ATC read like they had a gun held to their head.