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So, what would you do with me and my list?

Why should tournament rules be bent and twisted to cater to you in particular? If a tournament expects people to play WYSIWYG, then play WYSIWYG or don't go. Simple as that. And it's not asking a whole lot that you do so, given that it's being asked of every single other tournament player, the vast majority of whom would stick to those rules.

So rather than thinking only of yourself, why not think of all your potential opponents? They spent a ton of money on hotel rooms, plane tickets, and as others pointed out above, they also spent a bunch of money making sure that their army is WYSIWYG. So why not respect their efforts by putting in the same level of effort? Why not respect their game time by making sure that your army is WYSIWYG, rather than having to take the time before every game to point out all the different ways that your army isn't WYSIWYG, and making them memorize that on top of all the other things they're trying to keep in mind (Not to mention potentially penalizing them when they forget that one of your units is armed a certain way, only to be punished for forgetting that later on when they're taken by surprise by that unit)?

WYSISYG is a sensible rule for a tournament scene. Either hue to that rule or don't go to tournaments which enforce it. The alternative to that is the lack of WYSIWYG rules, in which case you're going to end up with every game getting prefaced by players telling their opponent how each unit is armed with something that isn't visibly shown on the model, and expecting them to memorize which units do what. That's a waste of time, a needless overcomplication, and unfair to those players who put in the effort to make it easy for their opponents by making sure that their army was WYSIWYG.

Well I think most of you would hate my local area tournament scene. We tend to just want to throw dice and don't find a couple pieces with the wrong equipment to confusing as long as it is up front (ie when placed I say: He has a Boltgun). More than 2-3 would probably be met with some groans, but a couple minor changes no problem...

All this WYSIWIG is a distraction at its base. Does/did the ATC have a WYSIWIG clause in the rules pack?

That particular rule no longer exists in 8th. Or at least I can't find it, if it does someone please point me to it. Arguing between yourselves about whose army should be removed and players banned is counterproductive and will do nothing to bring parity to the tournament scene.

JmOz01 wrote:
Well I think most of you would hate my local area tournament scene. We tend to just want to throw dice and don't find a couple pieces with the wrong equipment to confusing as long as it is up front (ie when placed I say: He has a Boltgun). More than 2-3 would probably be met with some groans, but a couple minor changes no problem...

That's fine. But when the event rules require WYSIWYG (as the ATC
did) you'd better follow them and accept the DQ without complaint if you don't.

 AndrewC wrote:
All this WYSIWIG is a distraction at its base. Does/did the ATC have a WYSIWIG clause in the rules pack?

That particular rule no longer exists in 8th. Or at least I can't find it, if it does someone please point me to it. Arguing between yourselves about whose army should be removed and players banned is counterproductive and will do nothing to bring parity to the tournament scene.

Yes it did. The below is directly from the rule packet.

2. Units must always be represented by appropriate models. This is the single, most important rule. The
'What You See Is What You Get' (WYSIWYG) rule is in effect for all events. That means all units MUST be
easily identifiable as the particular choice they represent and that any and all weapons/options taken for
a unit MUST be clearly represented on the model(s). Exceptions MAY be made for themed units or
armies. Furthermore, you need to contact us to let us know about any conversions you are planning on
using, and MUST provide us with photos of ALL models in question. Don’t worry – we fully appreciate
spectacular modelling skills, but we just want to make sure everything is super clear for your opponent
so that no confusion can arise during games. Players are required to email us to approve any
conversions/etc. (See below for submission guidelines). To protect everyone’s experience, you will be
required to remove any models that have not been approved, from the table, immediately.

And I could handle that, note it says that they will allow but want to see it first. I do not think the CC, or that my Sgt does not have his chainsword in hand would be a big issue with them, as long as I follow protocol (e-mail first)

 Peregrine wrote:

JmOz01 wrote:
Well I think most of you would hate my local area tournament scene. We tend to just want to throw dice and don't find a couple pieces with the wrong equipment to confusing as long as it is up front (ie when placed I say: He has a Boltgun). More than 2-3 would probably be met with some groans, but a couple minor changes no problem...

That's fine. But when the event rules require WYSIWYG (as the ATC
did) you'd better follow them and accept the DQ without complaint if you don't.

That's the thing. A lot of it depends on what the tournament specifies.

Smaller, local tourneys that state they'll be a little looser on WYSIWIG, tournament points, whatever: that's fine, so long as it is all stated up front.

Bigger tourneys tend to have stricter rules. This also is fine, so long as it's all stated up front.

Regardless of the type, it is not ok IMO to not read the event rules and then complain when you don't meet them and expect special treatment; you are not owed it. If an event has rules that you don't like or don't agree with, then don't go, since nobody is forcing you to do so.

One of the themes I see running in this thread is the frustration that some folks seem to go to these events and see other people not adhering to the stated rules, and seeing no consequences for it. For people who took the time to prepare and follow legal lists, legal conversions, etc., this is insulting and they're (rightfully) upset about someone else not doing that work and yet having nothing come of it. Offending players impact several other players, but of course they usually cry "but I spent money to be here." Yes, they did. But so did the 6 or whatever other players who just got ganked by having to play someone who didn't follow the same rules.

Rules exist to make it an "even" playground (no, I'm not going to say "balanced" because that's another can of worms). People who either knowingly or through antipathy don't follow those rules sour it for the many more who do.

Requiet wrote:
How the heck can you talk about spending money to travel to this big tournament and spend money on a hotel but not spend money to model your units correctly? That's some insane logic right there and I really can not understand why those kinds of people don't feel the rules should apply.

It's not insane, it's money.

Because that's another $75 bucks for 15 scourges, when my local, but big group, is fine with the birds I have. A note to mark: scourges are one of GW's cheaper models; other 5 packs of elite, heavy or FA units are $40+, so I am really a cheap guy, preferring to spend money on booze.

And is one set of winged elves really so different from the soul-sick ones? Whadya think? Here are the ones I painted to match my drukahri's black and purple motif. Not good enough?

Requiet wrote:
If you want to play with not wysiwyg awesome that's totally fine and acceptable. Don't pay to go to a tournament with that same mindset because those aren't the same damn thing.

Correct, which I'm not. I have attended all but one of FLG's big GTs in the last 6 years, as I have cited in many posts, I have yet to have an opponent give me grief about modeling.

It seems there are 2 schools of thought on WYSIWYG:
The Exact, No Exceptions JHDD and Ordana have advocated for
... and the other, which is my experience in California: a 'reasonable' WYSIWYG for GTs:

What has not been accepted in my meta and experience, that is, disallowed:
1. meltaguns must be meltaguns, no flamers for meltas, meltaguns for PGs, etc
2. MLs cannot be LasCans
3. rhinos cannot be wave serpents
4. a DP cannot proxy as the Great UnClean One
5. Bobby Billy has got to be Bobby Billy
6. Any kind of jumper marine needs to have a jump pack or wings

However, Overall, as long as the points were paid and it's close:
a. pistols, blast or plasma, yes, as long as it's paid for
b. guns on tanks (in my experience) are flexible, like razorback LasPlas of ... 6e? Though the local dudes worked out a good system to Get It Done.
c. Sternguard for Priamris for standard SMs? Sure. ... those guns gotta be accurate though
d. Winged aesthetic elves for sicky, winged Melnibonean elves
e. In earlier additions, Tau FireWarriors could have optional haywire grenades without needing to glue those 2x2x3 mm little grenade packs to their butts. *That* was a painful exercise in superglue, tweezers and nail polish remover

And ... when I come back from the game I'm going to play right now, I might cite more.

At this moment:
Thanks all for keeping this civil! Even though several of you must think I'm a blasphemous nutjob.

 djones520 wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
All this WYSIWIG is a distraction at its base. Does/did the ATC have a WYSIWIG clause in the rules pack?

That particular rule no longer exists in 8th. Or at least I can't find it, if it does someone please point me to it. Arguing between yourselves about whose army should be removed and players banned is counterproductive and will do nothing to bring parity to the tournament scene.

Yes it did. The below is directly from the rule packet.

2. Units must always be represented by appropriate models. This is the single, most important rule. The
'What You See Is What You Get' (WYSIWYG) rule is in effect for all events. That means all units MUST be
easily identifiable as the particular choice they represent and that any and all weapons/options taken for
a unit MUST be clearly represented on the model(s). Exceptions MAY be made for themed units or
armies. Furthermore, you need to contact us to let us know about any conversions you are planning on
using, and MUST provide us with photos of ALL models in question. Don’t worry – we fully appreciate
spectacular modelling skills, but we just want to make sure everything is super clear for your opponent
so that no confusion can arise during games. Players are required to email us to approve any
conversions/etc. (See below for submission guidelines). To protect everyone’s experience, you will be
required to remove any models that have not been approved, from the table, immediately.

Thanks, fine the model should have been removed from the table as not meeting the rules, but a DQ should not be mandated for that sort of offence.

However, I still stand by my assertion that WYSIWIG is a distraction detracting from the underlying requirement that is needed on the tournament scene about playing fairly.

Thanks, fine the model should have been removed from the table as not meeting the rules, but a DQ should not be mandated for that sort of offence.

However, I still stand by my assertion that WYSIWIG is a distraction detracting from the underlying requirement that is needed on the tournament scene about playing fairly.

I think it falls into the argument perfectly that many tournaments clearly define wysiwyg or not and people still show up to these events expecting special treatment like the dark eldar guy because its fine for his local events. If a TO takes the time to publish a rules packet and your only defense is that other people are fine with it then the answer is simple and doesn't hurt anyone, keep playing with those people. If youre going to go to a large event in a different locale and you want to use your not wysiwyg models just run it by the TO and respect their decision. If you don't and someone gets annoyed that they have to play a memory game on top of the game at hand when they read and followed the rules, sorry to say but the offending player is wrong here.

As for punishments on wysiwyg I think that falls into 2 categories if a tourney defines they are using wysiwyg

1) models with paid for weapons listed on paper but not properly represented

For these infractions I totally agree with a remove the offending model/unit policy, game loss and continue play.

2) players using weapons not paid for whether they are modeled or not. Such as the convenient plasma pistol.

This is a greater offense where having the plasma pistol modeled but its actually a bolt pistol should be handled by the first punishment the second a player uses a weapon not on their list would be crossing the line into actual cheating for me and should result in an immediate dq because this is either deliberate or willfully ignorant.

The only distraction here is that having lenient wysiwyg policy leads to more people thinking they can get away with ghost equipment like that convenient plasma pistol. Having a tight set of rules and punishments that are actually enforced universally lessens what cheaters can get away with

Requiet, the problem with your assertion is that wysiwyg is now a house rule.

When it was a core rule in the BRB it was a standard accepted and applied to all. The house rule at that point was to not require it. With this edition and the removal, any effort at enforcing wysiwyg is now at TOs discretion, optional and personal preference. And because of that its a distraction. Fix the core problem of cheating first, ie points and rules infractions before chasing 'house rules'

Cheers

Andrew

The thing I don't get is why not just play what you have at a tournament? Why do you have to field models with guns that they don't have when it might ruin the experience for your opponent that paid just as much money to go to a tournament? I take the time to magnetize all the options on all my models not for my own enjoyment (it takes about 5x longer to build everything) but for my opponents. This way if I want to switch a model my opponent doesn't have to remember 10 guns that aren't WYSIWYG and so they can be more immersed in the game. I would never feel so entitled that it should be my opponent's job to remember all these changes I made. On my old models, I build when I was younger before magnetizing I would never try to show up at a tournament claiming they had different wargear. I'd rather be 5% less effective than possibly ruin the experience for my opponent.

Because some of us don't mind when it is done to us, so we don't feel it is "ruining" things for others...Human beings tend to associate how they feel about a topic as the normal...,

Using my CC as an example, if a player was upset I would say "okay, then I will play him as if he had a laspistol and chainsword, that okay with you?" I MIGHT feel he was being petty, but I would respect him that much...However, my thought pattern is that it's not that big of a deal if a guy has equipment not sowing (I do get annoyed when it's a guy with somehting obvious and non equivalent (ie Bolter is a Lascannon)

JmOz01 wrote:
Because some of us don't mind when it is done to us, so we don't feel it is "ruining" things for others...Human beings tend to associate how they feel about a topic as the normal...,

Using my CC as an example, if a player was upset I would say "okay, then I will play him as if he had a laspistol and chainsword, that okay with you?" I MIGHT feel he was being petty, but I would respect him that much...However, my thought pattern is that it's not that big of a deal if a guy has equipment not sowing (I do get annoyed when it's a guy with somehting obvious and non equivalent (ie Bolter is a Lascannon)

Whats the difference though? Why is it ok for a Las Pistol to be a bolter but not a bolter to be a Lascannon? It takes the exact same amount of mental energy to remember that x weapon is actually y weapon for this game regardless of what you plug in there? It's all just as distracting from a narrative perspective to have a las pistol shooting bolter rounds as it is for a rocket launcher to be shooting beams of energy. Its also incredibly rude to go against an opponent assuming x doesn't bother me so I'll just do it even when you could simply make a list that just included what you have modeled. It would also point at you most likely being a WAAC player as you would rather bend the rules and enjoyment of your opponent to just run a slightly more competitive build in a tournament

In regards to WYSIWYG both players should summarize their complete army lists including WLT, psy powers and relics before the game begins.

And why can tank guns be proxied but not infantry guns?

 Brothererekose wrote:


It seems there are 2 schools of thought on WYSIWYG:
The Exact, No Exceptions JHDD and Ordana have advocated for
... and the other, which is my experience in California: a 'reasonable' WYSIWYG for GTs:

This is a strange fething argument. WYSIWYG is black and white, I mean it literally is all in the name, what a player sees on the model is what they get. There is no reasonable WYSIWYG it either is or it isn't. Making it a regional thing is irrelevant too. Maybe that's true, but if the event states models must be WYSIWYG I don't see why folks from California need a specific hall pass here.

The only "reasonable" WYSIWYG arguments I see are things like extraneous double pistols, gluing boltguns together to make a storm bolter, etc. It's not "reasonable" to agree that a Dark Lance is not a Dark Lance.

All of this is extraneous to ATC because the model problem Team Happy had there were unapproved, rule-breaking conversions that clearly used pre-painted creatures instead of painted models.

The tl:dr
All of the following is my response to a few posts (quotes thrown in).

But it circles back to the thread's hopeful purpose: Making the tourney scene better by being better, more honest players. And while I am using invisible blast pistols (but points paid!), and those hawks for scourges, my opponent knows, and is re-informed, all the time, throughout the whole game.

 AndrewC wrote:
Requiet, the problem with your assertion is that wysiwyg is now a house rule.

When it was a core rule in the BRB it was a standard accepted and applied to all. The house rule at that point was to not require it. With this edition and the removal, any effort at enforcing wysiwyg is now at TOs discretion, optional and personal preference. And because of that its a distraction. Fix the core problem of cheating first, ie points and rules infractions before chasing 'house rules'

Cheers

Andrew

In casual games it isn't a rule but in many tournaments it absolutely is whether you define a tournament rule that applies nationally as a house rule is your call but if youre signing up for these big tourneys and its a rule this is no longer a side piece but another part of how the cheaters get away with things. TOs have always had to police wysiwyg whether it was a house rule or not so saying that's any different now makes no sense

So, by this metric, a player who brings, say, a Squat force as anything but Squats, since the models are smaller in size than almost everything else, is not WYSIWYG and therefor should be DQ'd and maybe banned.

I have seen Squats played as AM/IG, and Orks. I play mine as SM Scouts. (All units except HQ, Elites and some Bikes are "scouts" with 4+ saves). I guess that means all those armies are illegal now.

Someone should tell Inso… https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/731849.page

I don’t understand how these big tournaments don’t already have codes of conduct and expectations set in advance for repercussions if you’re found cheating. If you don’t set expectations and judgement appears arbitrary. Set your ground rules and sanctions for breaking them out in advance, enforce them fairly, and no one can claim ignorance or feign surprise and claim mistreatment.

 helgrenze wrote:
So, by this metric, a player who brings, say, a Squat force as anything but Squats, since the models are smaller in size than almost everything else, is not WYSIWYG and therefor should be DQ'd and maybe banned.

I have seen Squats played as AM/IG, and Orks. I play mine as SM Scouts. (All units except HQ, Elites and some Bikes are "scouts" with 4+ saves). I guess that means all those armies are illegal now.

Someone should tell Inso… https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/731849.page

I wouldn't be pleased playing a fully proxied army in a tournament. At the local store is fine, but rule of cool is out the window when the stakes are higher.

phillv85 wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:
So, by this metric, a player who brings, say, a Squat force as anything but Squats, since the models are smaller in size than almost everything else, is not WYSIWYG and therefor should be DQ'd and maybe banned.

I have seen Squats played as AM/IG, and Orks. I play mine as SM Scouts. (All units except HQ, Elites and some Bikes are "scouts" with 4+ saves). I guess that means all those armies are illegal now.

Someone should tell Inso… https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/731849.page

I wouldn't be pleased playing a fully proxied army in a tournament. At the local store is fine, but rule of cool is out the window when the stakes are higher.

"Officially" Squats 'can' be played as either Am/IG or Orks.

phillv85 wrote:


I wouldn't be pleased playing a fully proxied army in a tournament. At the local store is fine, but rule of cool is out the window when the stakes are higher.

But stakes often are quite a bit lower at big tournaments (those everyone can attend without qualifiers, not counting invitationals). Games at your friends house or at a FLGS by definition means there's some regularity to the games and/or a FLGS nearby one actually can play, monthly maybe, let's say.


The big events like Nova, Adepticon, LVO, etc.. are by definition the places where people go that only play once every 2 years or so, without wargaming-friends, FLGS-infrastructure, gaming clubs, etc.. nearby. The majority, in percentage, of the LVO/Adepticon/etc.. crowd are the least (!) competitive players in 40K, multitudes less versed in the game than 12-year old Timmy who has a local Games Workshop and can get a match in every 6 weeks.

If you wanna apply "professional player standards", you need to tier it off. Run qualifiers, implement a Golf-style handicap system, have different tiered leagues with a "premier league" on top you need to work your way up to, etc.. something. You cannot demand "professional sports" standards unless everyone attending actually is a professional athlete whose there because of a years-long selection process from possibly primary school onward, which actually screens out thousands for every contender that gets in. If the tournament rules allow everyone to attend for a few dollars/euros/pound, no matter who you are, that's the baseline you'll have to consider.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
You cannot demand "professional sports" standards unless everyone attending actually is a professional athlete whose there because of a years-long selection process from possibly primary school onward, which actually screens out thousands for everyone that get's in.

That's a terrible analogy. Playing a game of 40k without cheating is not a difficult standard to meet, especially when we're talking about things like not bringing an illegal list. Anyone who gives a can do it, while only a tiny minority of people can even attempt to become professional athletes. Stop making excuses for cheaters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 helgrenze wrote:
So, by this metric, a player who brings, say, a Squat force as anything but Squats, since the models are smaller in size than almost everything else, is not WYSIWYG and therefor should be DQ'd and maybe banned.

Correct. Squats, unfortunately, are no longer supported and are not WYSIWYG for anything. And in a game where TLOS exists having a significantly different LOS profile is not a minor thing. It sucks if you have a squat army, but you can't expect tournaments to support models that were abandoned by the manufacturer decades (and multiple editions) ago. Play them in fun games, bring a modern army for tournaments.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

phillv85 wrote:


I wouldn't be pleased playing a fully proxied army in a tournament. At the local store is fine, but rule of cool is out the window when the stakes are higher.

But stakes often are quite a bit lower at big tournaments (those everyone can attend without qualifiers, not counting invitationals). Games at your friends house or at a FLGS by definition means there's some regularity to the games and/or a FLGS nearby one actually can play, monthly maybe, let's say.


The big events like Nova, Adepticon, LVO, etc.. are by definition the places where people go that only play once every 2 years or so, without wargaming-friends, FLGS-infrastructure, gaming clubs, etc.. nearby. The majority, in percentage, of the LVO/Adepticon/etc.. crowd are the least (!) competitive players in 40K, multitudes less versed in the game than 12-year old Timmy who has a local Games Workshop and can get a match in every 6 weeks.

If you wanna apply "professional player standards", you need to tier it off. Run qualifiers, implement a Golf-style handicap system, have different tiered leagues with a "premier league" on top you need to work your way up to, etc.. something. You cannot demand "professional sports" standards unless everyone attending actually is a professional athlete whose there because of a years-long selection process from possibly primary school onward, which actually screens out thousands for every contender that gets in. If the tournament rules allow everyone to attend for a few dollars/euros/pound, no matter who you are, that's the baseline you'll have to consider.

I don't see how stakes are lower in a tournament with paid entry to playing in your FLGS or garage.

It's not asking for pro sports standards to have someone run the models they are meant to be. When you're against the clock and you can't tell what a model is meant to be carrying it adds pressure.

As much as I feel bad for Squats players, they've had over 20 years to build a new collection for tournaments. I just don't want TFG to have a lasgun one moment, then a bolter or plasma pistol the next. It's not too much to ask.

So, WYSIWYG is, pretty clear to me, and is pretty much always addressed in the Tournament Rules Pack well in advance of the event, alongside any rules on conversations and proxies.

Generally, a conversion that is substantially different to the standard model (see the ATC Rough Riders running around on Turtles and Alligators), and could potentially have an impact on the game from a “fair play” point of view. No-one was going to argue that the ‘Gater Riders were being used as anything other than Rough Riders, due to the Guard not having any other unit like them, available to them, but, the question gets raised around the whole “modelling for advantage” side of things. If they are suddenly 2-3cm shorter than standard, then it can have a big impact. Likewise when people were trying to use random artillery toys in place of Earthshaker platforms, but the toys were a 1/3 of the size of the actual model and thus could be hidden far far far easier.

I’ve always taken the WYSIWYG rule as follows –
Models must be equipped with their given loadout, with the exception of standard, free, equipment, such as standard pistols and grenades. If a model is given an upgrade that costs points, then that model must also then be modelled with the specialist equipment for ease of identification on the battlefield, for BOTH players.

In the Banner Bearer example, if you took a Command Squad with a Banner, then, as the Lasgun is standard equipment, there would be no need to find a way to model a Lasgun. But, if you then took your Banner Bearer as a standard trooper in an Infantry squad, I’d likely raise an eyebrow (in a tournament event) as it represents something completely different.

On the other side, I’d be perfectly fine with Brothererekose’s Hawks as Scourges, as a player and a TO, IF they were running as standard using the Shardcarbine. The moment they wanted to use blasters or haywire, then, I’d ask for them to be modelled as such. Especially if there is more than 1 unit of them on the table with different loadouts.

As for the ability to get hold of some bitz, I agree, it can be challenging at times, but, there are options out there to get them (In Europe at least, so I’m expecting the US has bitz sellers as well). If not, there are usually items up on ebay.

In regards to brand new players in a small, friendly local RTT, then, I think it depends completely on the group of people playing. If it was only 10 people use to playing each other, then the rules could be a bit more relaxed, but, I’d certainly strive for things to be as correct as possible. The moment you start including other people in the event, the moment you have to start enforcing the standard, for their sake. You owe it to the people travelling to the event and spending money on hotels etc, to have a good event that sticks to the pre-listed rules.

At the last Warhammer Fest of 7th edition, I played against an Ork army in my final game that was entirely made up of Squat models. It had been submitted to the GW event team in advance, and passed by them, so there was no issue. Everything was clearly labelled and identifiable, and in terms of wargear, everything was WYSIWYG. Due to it being a GW event, it also didn’t have much of an impact, because GW likes to play their event games with zero LoS blocking terrain. If it was an ITC event though where there was a lot more terrain etc, then I’d prob not allow it, due to the impact it would likely have. It’d be swings and roundabouts in terms of LoS, unit footprint etc, but the potential for unintended and unfortunate things to occur because of it, would be far too high to be reasonable.

Specialist weaponry, be it blades, pistols, heavy or special weapons have an impact on the game just by being there. If I know 1 unit of Scourges have blasters and 1 unit only has shardcarbines and I’m running some vehicles, I’m going to 100% priorities the unit with blasters in my plans before the game. If I then get into game and they are modelled completely differently, then it places an extra burden on me to remember that, that one certain unit actually has something completely different. I wouldn’t do that to my opponent personally, and I’d expect the same curtesy in return.

When I built my Eldar force for an event, and chose to run an Autarch Skyrunner with Banshee mask, Lance and Reaper Launcher, I modelled him having all those. Sure, it cost me 1 Banshee head and 1 Dark Reaper arm, but, in a way, that is the price to pay if you want to convert and run different things. Likewise, how I magnetised the sword/spear arm of my Farseers and Warlocks, should I find myself in a position with 5 points space/over and need to change it out.

In regards to relics, it is slightly different. If you gave a model the Teeth of Terra relic, I’d expect that model to be modelled with a Chainsword (as the relic replaces the existing war gear). If you gave a model the Aquila, then I wouldn’t have any issues with it not being modelled. (Though, I’m sure there are people out there that have decided to model it via kitbashing)

At the end of the day, it is down to the TO to set the rules prior to the event, and the players to then follow those rules. Punishment for not doing so should then be issued.

I still don't get what people are having trouble with.

If you're not using an official model for the army you are playing - take some decent photos and email them to the TO in advance of the tournament to confirm or deny if the conversions are allowed within their rules or not. This is 2018 and if you can afford GW models then you can afford a half decent camera; or if not you've at least likely got one or more friends who owns a camera/cameraphone to borrow

Some will allow them and some won't. Most often bigger national or international will be stricter whilst the tourney which is basically you and your friends from the local club is likely to be more casual/allowing of such things.

Confirm in advance and if its not allowed work with that and either don't go or use official models.

There are 2 separate issues in play here:

1. What the rules of the event should be
2. What the penalty should be for breaking those rules

Things like points limits are obvious, uncontroversial parts of point 1. WYSIWYG is, apparenly, more controversial though I'm really not sure how. I just don't get what the problem is here, especially when ATC had what seems to be a pretty sensible approach to this - models should by WYSIWYG and any conversions need to be pre-approved. Why do people have a problem with having to represent the correct wargear on their models? I've played 40k since 2nd edition and one of the most annoying things I've had ot do is change around my load-outs on my models because what's good seems to change with every edition. That takes time, effort and money but I do it because it's a basic courtesy to my opponent. Sometimers I might proxy in a friendly game, just to see if something is worth using, but I don't do it as a matter of course.

Things like Blast pistols are the perfect example of why WYSIWYG is so important at tournaments, I shouldn't be expected to remember stuff in your list and the difference between a Blast pistol and Splinter pistol is huge - one of them is lucky oto kill a Space Marine per game while the other can remove a Space Marine Captain in one shot. If the tournament has rules laid out for WYSIWYG you have two options: follow them or don't go. Don't show up to a tournament with clear rules and expect an exception because "it's only a pistol" or "everyone else does it".

The second point is probably the more interesting one to discuss, IMO. I don't think an instant DQ is warranted for all infringements and I don't think it's beneficial to the tournament scene to do so. But there have to be penalties for breaking the rules, otherwise what's the point in having the rules at all? For list mistakes and WYSIWYG infringements I'd suggest a game loss for each game played so far, followed by the TO adjusting the list to be legal for any future games. Of course, the TO would also be able to DQ somebody if they felt the infringement was more serious. So somebody going 2 points over because they forgot to include an upgrade gets the game losses and adjustment but somebody who conveniently forgets to add in the cost of all their heavy weapons could expect a DQ.