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I'm hoping to see more than just points changes but I'm not counting on it.

CP regeneration abilities shouldn't stack no rolling 2 dice for each CP spent.

But the most common issues and hence needed points changes are

-Guard to loose acess to grand strategist warlord trait/kurov's aquila.

-Guard infantry squad statline models need +1pt infantry squads HWsquads etc.
-Basilisks, mortars, LR battlecannons, Baneblade weapons of various types all need points increased.
-Custodes Bikes need serious points increased
-Basic custodes need minor points drops
-Any Aldari unit with -1 to hit natively needs a points increase or something as it's auto -2 or more to hit.
-units with acess to -1to hit buffs need atleast points double checked. 
-Demon princes wings need to cost more
-Most Forgeworld models need points drops
- Crisis suits and Ghostkeels needs points drops.
-Terminators, landraiders all need points reductions
-Centurions need stupidly large points drops
-psychic powers could do with a balance across the factions.

*Orks need a codex before we can see where they are before anyone has a fit

Guard infantry +1 point per model please.

Dire Avenger: -1ppm
Dire Avenger Exarch: +7ppm

A handful of often-offenders in the CWE book need to go up a little:
-Reapers
-Spears
-Hemlock
-CH
-Serpent

Many things, though, should go down a least a little:
-Banshees
-Scorpions
-Wraithlord
-Asurman
-Falcon
-Night Spinner
-Firestorm

Some need to go down a lot:
-All other Phoenix Lords
-Avatar
-Wraithknight
-Storm Guardians
-Windriders

Just give Space Marines Chapter Tactics on all of their units. Same goes for their Chaos variants.

Biasn wrote:
Imho for necrons:

Monolith , Anni Barge , Scythes , nearly every Inf Unit by some points since RP is straight up garbage.

I'm not sure I agree with the doom scythes. Their effectiveness is not good but they have the most OP strategem when running 3 of them. However the strategem is useless is 1 dies so I don't know how to judge this. I tabled a guard player basically turn 1 since I went first and was able to get the strategem off. With the way eh was castled up I completely destroyed so many units.

Let me see... it might be easier to list Ork units that don't need a point adjustment.*

Boyz

*Of course, this is if we don't get a codex before CA. Which we might not. Also, sarcasm, but only somewhat.

Ice_can wrote:
I'm hoping to see more than just points changes but I'm not counting on it.

CP regeneration abilities shouldn't stack no rolling 2 dice for each CP spent.

But the most common issues and hence needed points changes are

-Guard to loose acess to grand strategist warlord trait/kurov's aquila.

-Guard infantry squad statline models need +1pt infantry squads HWsquads etc.
-Basilisks, mortars, LR battlecannons, Baneblade weapons of various types all need points increased.
-Custodes Bikes need serious points increased
-Basic custodes need minor points drops
-Any Aldari unit with -1 to hit natively needs a points increase or something as it's auto -2 or more to hit.
-units with acess to -1to hit buffs need atleast points double checked. 
-Demon princes wings need to cost more
-Most Forgeworld models need points drops
- Crisis suits and Ghostkeels needs points drops.
-Terminators, landraiders all need points reductions
-Centurions need stupidly large points drops
-psychic powers could do with a balance across the factions.

*Orks need a codex before we can see where they are before anyone has a fit

Woah that's exactly my opinion too, I think we all agree here on these changes to happen as soon as possible

From my perspective the following units need updated points cost;

Forge World:
Renegades and Heretics need to be cheaper. a Militia should be worth less than a guardsmen. He has worse armor, worse accuracy, worse leadership, and worse special rules. This can be fixed by Militia going to 3 points or Guard going to 5 points, but not both.
Hellforged Scorpius needs to be more expensive
Leviathan Dread needs to be more expensive

Obliterators either need to be 3 shots, or have a price increase. We can all agree that they were worthless with Assault 2 guns, and I think we can all agree that they are too good with Assault 4 guns. I feel that 3 will be the sweet spot but since CA would likely just adjust points, they could use a bump.

Otherwse, I agree that CSM's other units can ride along with a Space Marine rework and be fine. Otherwise minor point drops for Power Armored Marines and a large point drop for Terminators would help bring other troop options aside from Cultists to the forefront. Cult Marines are closer, but not quite there, as it is telling that Plague Marines and Rubric Marines are not really fielded in large numbers even in their own codexes.

I agree that Eldar could probably use further tweaks to Reapers, Shining Spears, and Hemlocks. However generally Eldar are only really a huge problem when stacking negative hit modifiers. Alaitoc needs to have its army trait removed, or Eldar need to lose access to Lightning Fast Reflexes and Conceal. Its currently too easy to stack negative to hit modifiers and it makes the game unfun to play. Its not fair to players of other craftworlds to reprice everything to make Alaitoc "fair", and far better to just change the Alaitoc trait to something else (something like enemy units subtract 6 inches from the range of their attack). A potent ability but easier to work around.

Can I be another voice for the getting rid of stacking negs to hit.

Played against an eldar soup army this weekend and got charged by a harlequin HQ. After strats and spells this dude was -4 to hit in melee. That's right -4.

Oh and he had that stupid suit of knives meaning that any attack I rolled that wasn't a 6 proc'ed mortal wounds on my unit on a 2. And just for some more insult to injury GW FAQ'd I HAD to attack with my unit (I couldn't just decline to fight him because I couldn't hit him...). I felt really bad for the orc player that went against him the next round.

He also had some ghost looking guys with a ton of shots that were able to walk around at a -3 to hit. Don't get me started on the flyers...

Speaking of eldar soup, Doom needs a fix. It should only apply to units with the same faction or even craftworld as the jerk who casts it. Ynarri dark reapers are still too strong.

Shining spears need a cost boost and along with re-balancing the eldar powers/casters it should help fighting against them feeling like such an up-hill battle.

The no deepstrike until 2nd turn needs to go, that or reduce the price of units that can deepstrike significantly. This rule basically cuts their offensive out-put by 20% (most games reaching a conclusion by turn 5, missing out on turn 1 = 20% reduction in firepower) Inceptors are really hurt by this rule as they are too squishy to have on the table turn 1 but if they can't land until turn 2 their fire-power is significantly reduced.

Power armor for marines goes to 2+, termies to 1+ AND offensive output gets looked at. I'm not for across the board point reductions, I'd rather have buffs (or GW can nerf the 60% of over-performing units but I don't think that will happen.)

Charging mechanic needs a look. Someone suggested movement +d6. Sounds good to me (after failing 9" charges on 3d6 4 times, twice with re-rolls, in one game and 2 times the next anything that makes getting in more reliable I'm a fan of)

Kill command points gained by detachments. Each army gets 10-12 for being battle-forged.

No command point regens. Removing stacking re-gen re-rolls should be a no-brainier but I'd like them to go one step further and get rid of the mechanic all together.

Space marines need a lot of help. I never see bikers, centurians, termanators, assault guys, non-fw dreads, preds, vindis, land raiders...pretty much anything that isn't a scout or a character needs a re-write (including strats and tactics). Probably not going to happen but after trying to put together an army that can fight knights and eldar I'm not seeing a way out (outside of new primarchs...) with the way space marines are currently constructed.

Grey knights need a new codex.

Second the +1 point per guard infantry. I'd also like to see their HQs get more expensive, pay even more for their bs 3+ guns, mortars need an increase, manticores and basies could go up 5-10 points.

Dark eldar. Blow it up and try again. Disi-cannons are crazy. Vect should only be use once per game turn. Ravagers are too cheap, hell everything you see on a table is too cheap (grots, witches, kabalites, lances, blasters, the sail boats and the flyers).

That relic knight cannon is too good. The CqC one is too cheap. Rotate ion shields is dumb. 28 wounds with a 3++ is broken (cap it at a 4++).

I disagree that the bike captains are overpriced unless we start bumping similar units (tau commanders, nid flyrants and chaos winged demon princes, especially the Tzeentch ones). The regular bikers probably should see a 2-5 point increase though. The rest of the book needs to come down 10%ish. All termies need re-balancing.

Speaking of nids. The fire twice for hive guard makes them broken. Get rid of the strat, boost its cost or deal with the hive-guard.

VoTLW shouldn't apply to cultists and abaddon shouldn't make them fearless. Didn't we already go through this with conscripts? Ahriman needs more points. Demons with wings need more points. Power armor needs help, termies need help (but are better than loyalists due to special weapon saturation)

Tesseract vaults need a look. Destroyers are really good. The rest of the codex probably needs some point reductions.

Hell take a look through the 2018 etc lists. If it is on more than 5-6 teams it needs a hike. If it is on 3 or less it needs a reduction.

That turned into quite a rant. I could keep going but I don't think any of it will be done or if it is will be undone by the introduction of orcs and space wolves. Hopefully 9th edition is more balanced and this edition was just to put the framework up.

Did GW ever fix a codex with a CA, or do people always have to wait for a new codex first for fixs?

Because from what I feel, point drops alone would either make GK cost less then normal marines to make them good, or would be to small, and GK would be less efficient custodes.

Eldar

-Avatar needs a reduction, he's pretty horrible.
-Wraithknight looks...almost unfixable via CA it's so bad.
-Shining Spears need to go up a small amount.
-Windriders need to go down a small amount.
-Phoenix Lords need a slight drop, if only because of their lack of invuln saves.
-Vypers sit in a kind of pointless spot and may need some kind fo adjustment, but I'm not sure their points are off.
-Dark Reapers could stand to go up a few more points, though they're better pointed now than before.
-Warlocks need to go back down in points. They're complete garbage for their cost, but are being pointed into the stratosphere because of their spell access.

Chaos

-Terminators in desperate need of reduction.
-Land Raider needs a small 10-15% reduction to make it properly viable
-Predator could do with a minor drop simply because they don't match up at all vs. IG tanks for similar cost (or give the Predator a double-fire at half move turret, etc.)
-Generic Space Marines and their Chaos buddies could easily drop to 10-11 points per model instead of 13. They're not awful, but tough to justify.
-If 'Raptors' don't get a rules boost they need a points drop or something to make them remotely viable.

Reduce the cost of Vox Casters. Or has that been done already? I don’t remember.

bananathug wrote:
Can I be another voice for the getting rid of stacking negs to hit.

Played against an eldar soup army this weekend and got charged by a harlequin HQ. After strats and spells this dude was -4 to hit in melee. That's right -4.

Oh and he had that stupid suit of knives meaning that any attack I rolled that wasn't a 6 proc'ed mortal wounds on my unit on a 2. And just for some more insult to injury GW FAQ'd I HAD to attack with my unit (I couldn't just decline to fight him because I couldn't hit him...). I felt really bad for the orc player that went against him the next round.

This is the kind of rules exploit I hate, because it relies on people not knowing the choices that they have.

You have to fight with all models who are eligible to fight.

You don't have to pile in, meaning you don't have to make models eligible to fight.

Just pick one model to be the sacrifice that's in base to base with him, and take the casualties he causes away from other models within 1". Then, choose not to pile in on your turn. The only model that will be forced to fight him will be the one directly next to him, and then if (when) the unit takes at least one mortal wound from the suit, you remove that model.

The solitaire doesn't get to pile in (it's your fight phase now, not his) so he's stuck out of combat, and he's burned 2 psychic powers and 2CPs just to cause 1-2 mortal wounds. Incidentally, -4 is not right, the max you can get to is -3, by debuffing the unit you're going to charge, buffing him, and spending the stratagem for that phase.

Then you just shoot him. The one unit he charged will be at -2 to hit, but everyone else will be at -1 to hit. He dies on average to 2 FRFSRF'd guard squads the following turn.

bananathug wrote:
Can I be another voice for the getting rid of stacking negs to hit.

Played against an eldar soup army this weekend and got charged by a harlequin HQ. After strats and spells this dude was -4 to hit in melee. That's right -4.

Oh and he had that stupid suit of knives meaning that any attack I rolled that wasn't a 6 proc'ed mortal wounds on my unit on a 2. And just for some more insult to injury GW FAQ'd I HAD to attack with my unit (I couldn't just decline to fight him because I couldn't hit him...). I felt really bad for the orc player that went against him the next round.

He also had some ghost looking guys with a ton of shots that were able to walk around at a -3 to hit. Don't get me started on the flyers...

I'm trying to think through this, let me see if I got this right.
Harlequin Psychic Power: Veil of Tears (attacks made vs unit are -1 to hit)
Harlequin Psychic Power: Fog of Dreams (your unit must -1 to hit)
Craftworld Psychic Power: Drain (your unit must -1 to hit in fight phase)
Strategem- 2 CP: Lightning Fast Reflexes (attacks made vs unit are -1 to hit for phase)

Grand total of -4 to hit. Hilariously, you would only actually be able to hit him on a 7 if your unit was WS3. Which means technically you are just rolling to hurt yourself :(. Still the full combo requires 3 psychic powers (which cannot be cast on any other units) as well as a 2 CP strategem. So their is some counter play, but it is absurdly brutal, and I agree that it would be unfun to play against. What needs to happen is GW needs to either cap negative hit modifiers at -1 or -2, and/or release a rule stating that natural rolls of a 6 are always successful. Either way, negative hit modifiers are a cancer on the game.

 akaean wrote:

bananathug wrote:
Can I be another voice for the getting rid of stacking negs to hit.

Played against an eldar soup army this weekend and got charged by a harlequin HQ. After strats and spells this dude was -4 to hit in melee. That's right -4.

Oh and he had that stupid suit of knives meaning that any attack I rolled that wasn't a 6 proc'ed mortal wounds on my unit on a 2. And just for some more insult to injury GW FAQ'd I HAD to attack with my unit (I couldn't just decline to fight him because I couldn't hit him...). I felt really bad for the orc player that went against him the next round.

He also had some ghost looking guys with a ton of shots that were able to walk around at a -3 to hit. Don't get me started on the flyers...

I'm trying to think through this, let me see if I got this right.
Harlequin Psychic Power: Veil of Tears (attacks made vs unit are -1 to hit)
Harlequin Psychic Power: Fog of Dreams (your unit must -1 to hit)
Craftworld Psychic Power: Drain (your unit must -1 to hit in fight phase)
Strategem- 2 CP: Lightning Fast Reflexes (attacks made vs unit are -1 to hit for phase)

Grand total of -4 to hit. Hilariously, you would only actually be able to hit him on a 7 if your unit was WS3. Which means technically you are just rolling to hurt yourself :(. Still the full combo requires 3 psychic powers (which cannot be cast on any other units) as well as a 2 CP strategem. So their is some counter play, but it is absurdly brutal, and I agree that it would be unfun to play against. What needs to happen is GW needs to either cap negative hit modifiers at -1 or -2, and/or release a rule stating that natural rolls of a 6 are always successful. Either way, negative hit modifiers are a cancer on the game.

See my explanation. Beyond the casualties caused by the solitaire attacking, there is no reason for an opponent to take more than the mortal wounds that would be caused by one of his models' attacks.

At risk of sounding flippant

stop hittin' yourself.

Solid advice Scots! Thanks. Would you shoot me a PM regarding how exactly it is a -3 maximum. I swear the guy had a native -1, a spell on my unit for another -1, a spell on him? for a -1 and another strat on him for a fourth -1. I don't own any eldar codexes so I kind of just took his word for it. [never mind, already answered]

Problem is I was using a unit of mixed primaris and the aggressors bases are soo big that he charged into two that were within 1" of 4 models each. He chose to fight with his fists so his attacks didn't kill anything in my unit and then I had to fight back with the aggressors and the aggressors on either side and the 3 inceptors behind them (they were all piled up because they were in cover and the terrain made them all wobbly model so I clumped them up so that they wouldn't fall down). So thats 20 attacks, no sixes and then he only failed to proc one, re-rolled that with a command point so 20 mortal wounds or 10 dead primaris (I did shoot the hell out of him the next turn though) but it was still stupid that I couldn't hit him if I had wanted to. Thank god he couldn't pile into anything after that...

It's one of my problems with 40k at the moment is I'm supposed to place my models exactly 1.25" apart but then I have to do it ontop of terrain that isn't level. It would take me so long to precisely space out each of my models but unless I can get my opponent to agree that the spacing is exactly that then I'm open to these types of shenanigans.

Also with his tiny base and flip belt if I'm not spaced exactly right he can squeeze in between and then I'm fully screwed. The orc guy may have it better because he might actually lose some models when he gets charged.

The need to micro measure models in order to prevent this type of junk is why games between highly competitive players shouldn't have time-clocks and could easily last 4-5 hours. I was happy to play all of my games to completion but in doing so opened myself up to these types of problems.

Definitely need to cap modifier stacking to one instance per player.

I'd be curious what would happen if Grey Knights were able to ignore the one cast per power rule along with some point changes.

Bike captains are too cheap. No clue how much. I think Guard themselves are probably fine; they could go up, but I feel like its the cheap HQs that make them stand out more than they should.

There are others if I really think about it, but honestly, the two big outliers seem to be modifier stacking and Grey Knight's just being hilariously underpowered. Before I spent too much time tweaking points, I'd want to do something about those and see what happens.

EDIT: Bonus rule. I'd be curious to see AoS's 30" denial range in 40k.

Need to go up:

Dissy cannons.
Talos.
All DE jets.
Grotesques.
Kabalites.

Farseer jetbikes.
Dark reapers.

Leviathan dreads.
Venerable dreads.

Shield drones.
Fire warriors.
Tau FW flyer.
FW Riptide.

Necron destroyers.
Doomsday arks.
Destroyer lords.
C'tan Shards.

Guardsmen.
Primaris psykers.
Leman Russes.
Manticores.
Mortar teams.
Basilisks.
Hell hounds.
Scions.
Any source of IG orders.
Master of ordinance. "
Volcano Cannon.

All FW Impierial Knights.

Demon princes.
Slannesh havocs.
Ahriman.
Vortex beasts.
Chaos leviathan dread
Alpha legion berserkers.

All babycarriers.

Battle sisters.
Canoness.
FW Sister transport.

Put me in the camp as mainly wanting to see power armor marines get a buff or point decrease. I'd also love to see marine factions finally get chapter tactics on their vehicles.

As for general rules:
Cap of -1 to hit modifiers (outside of heavy which would stack for a -2),
Command points only work for the faction that generated them. So a guard battalion gives you 5CP to use on guard stratagems only.

the_scotsman wrote:

bananathug wrote:
Can I be another voice for the getting rid of stacking negs to hit.

Played against an eldar soup army this weekend and got charged by a harlequin HQ. After strats and spells this dude was -4 to hit in melee. That's right -4.

Oh and he had that stupid suit of knives meaning that any attack I rolled that wasn't a 6 proc'ed mortal wounds on my unit on a 2. And just for some more insult to injury GW FAQ'd I HAD to attack with my unit (I couldn't just decline to fight him because I couldn't hit him...). I felt really bad for the orc player that went against him the next round.

This is the kind of rules exploit I hate, because it relies on people not knowing the choices that they have.

You have to fight with all models who are eligible to fight.

You don't have to pile in, meaning you don't have to make models eligible to fight.

Just pick one model to be the sacrifice that's in base to base with him, and take the casualties he causes away from other models within 1". Then, choose not to pile in on your turn. The only model that will be forced to fight him will be the one directly next to him, and then if (when) the unit takes at least one mortal wound from the suit, you remove that model.

The solitaire doesn't get to pile in (it's your fight phase now, not his) so he's stuck out of combat, and he's burned 2 psychic powers and 2CPs just to cause 1-2 mortal wounds. Incidentally, -4 is not right, the max you can get to is -3, by debuffing the unit you're going to charge, buffing him, and spending the stratagem for that phase.

Then you just shoot him. The one unit he charged will be at -2 to hit, but everyone else will be at -1 to hit. He dies on average to 2 FRFSRF'd guard squads the following turn.

This is a really good example of the type of thing that's really not as overpowered as it sounds, but because people (a) don't know how to handle it and (b) don't know what the actual rules are, other players get away with pushing the bounds. I really think the whole -1 to hit - even stacked - isn't nearly as bad as people think it is.

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

bananathug wrote:
Can I be another voice for the getting rid of stacking negs to hit.

Played against an eldar soup army this weekend and got charged by a harlequin HQ. After strats and spells this dude was -4 to hit in melee. That's right -4.

Oh and he had that stupid suit of knives meaning that any attack I rolled that wasn't a 6 proc'ed mortal wounds on my unit on a 2. And just for some more insult to injury GW FAQ'd I HAD to attack with my unit (I couldn't just decline to fight him because I couldn't hit him...). I felt really bad for the orc player that went against him the next round.

This is the kind of rules exploit I hate, because it relies on people not knowing the choices that they have.

You have to fight with all models who are eligible to fight.

You don't have to pile in, meaning you don't have to make models eligible to fight.

Just pick one model to be the sacrifice that's in base to base with him, and take the casualties he causes away from other models within 1". Then, choose not to pile in on your turn. The only model that will be forced to fight him will be the one directly next to him, and then if (when) the unit takes at least one mortal wound from the suit, you remove that model.

The solitaire doesn't get to pile in (it's your fight phase now, not his) so he's stuck out of combat, and he's burned 2 psychic powers and 2CPs just to cause 1-2 mortal wounds. Incidentally, -4 is not right, the max you can get to is -3, by debuffing the unit you're going to charge, buffing him, and spending the stratagem for that phase.

Then you just shoot him. The one unit he charged will be at -2 to hit, but everyone else will be at -1 to hit. He dies on average to 2 FRFSRF'd guard squads the following turn.

This is a really good example of the type of thing that's really not as overpowered as it sounds, but because people (a) don't know how to handle it and (b) don't know what the actual rules are, so other players get away with pushing the bounds. I really think the whole -1 to hit - even stacked - isn't nearly as bad as people think it is.

No, stacking - to hit can get really goofy, I'm 100% in agreement that we need to bring back the 6 being autohit and I also advocate that they reverse the stupid ruling where you can hyper-punish "bad things on a roll of 1" type rules.

I have a suspicion that that ruling was put out early in the edition as a spider to swallow the fly of plasma spam. And now that everyone has traits and strats and psychic powers and - to hit are flying around everywhere, it's gotten really stupid.

The solitaire thing is essentially an exploit, though. Or..whatever you call a thing designed to take advantage of someone not knowing what they can and can't do? A noob trap? You just have to compare the damage that it usually does versus the damage that the solitaire would do with his regular melee weapon + the damage that three smites would have done to the unit instead of the three powers required to be cast on them to see that it's not actually that good.

Martel732 wrote:


Need to go up:

Necron destroyers.
Doomsday arks.
Destroyer lords.
C'tan Shards

If DDA and Shards go up you might aswell remove them from the codex.

Biasn wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


Need to go up:

Necron destroyers.
Doomsday arks.
Destroyer lords.
C'tan Shards

If DDA and Shards go up you might aswell remove them from the codex.

I think they're considerably too effective for their cost.

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
I really think the whole -1 to hit - even stacked - isn't nearly as bad as people think it is.

The problem is just that a D6 has a miserably small viable curve. 1+ and 7+ are problematic for fairly obvious reasons, so you're left with 2-6. Even then, 2 and 6 are huge shifts from 3 and 5, making those pretty harsh cutoffs for the dice curve. A single hit modifier is a pretty substantial change in expected output. Two is dramatic, particularly without much in the way of positive modifiers to counteract it beyond just having better stats to begin with.

 LunarSol wrote:

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
I really think the whole -1 to hit - even stacked - isn't nearly as bad as people think it is.

The problem is just that a D6 has a miserably small viable curve. 1+ and 7+ are problematic for fairly obvious reasons, so you're left with 2-6. Even then, 2 and 6 are huge shifts from 3 and 5, making those pretty harsh cutoffs for the dice curve. A single hit modifier is a pretty substantial change in expected output. Two is dramatic, particularly without much in the way of positive modifiers to counteract it beyond just having better stats to begin with.

Math is a harsh mistress.

The effectiveness of destroyers has nothing to do with the unit itself and everything to do with Extermination Protocols... If you're going to adjust something, it should be the cost of that stratagem, not the cost of destroyers.

Still, giving across the board nerfs to every good unit for what has turned out to be one of the worst major factions in the game is... questionable.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The effectiveness of destroyers has nothing to do with the unit itself and everything to do with Extermination Protocols... If you're going to adjust something, it should be the cost of that stratagem, not the cost of destroyers.

Still, giving across the board nerfs to every good unit for what has turned out to be one of the worst major factions in the game is... questionable.

I tried to hit all the spammed gak. Also "go up" could mean very little. Or, like for FW IKs, could mean a LOT.

Martel732 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The effectiveness of destroyers has nothing to do with the unit itself and everything to do with Extermination Protocols... If you're going to adjust something, it should be the cost of that stratagem, not the cost of destroyers.

Still, giving across the board nerfs to every good unit for what has turned out to be one of the worst major factions in the game is... questionable.

I tried to hit all the spammed gak. Also "go up" could mean very little. Or, like for FW IKs, could mean a LOT.

"Spammed gak"

"FW IKs"

Alright bud.

/facepalm

Spamming is not a necessary condition; spammed units have a tendency to be too good. FW IKs are blatant outliers compared to the codex IKs.

The CSM codex as a whole is about 10 percent overcosted IMO.

Some units are ok, like most cult marines, some should cost a bit more, like Obliterators and Cultists if similar units in other codices go up as well.

And some units are terribly overcosted. Even if Plasma and Disintegrator Cannons were not spammable like they are now, Terminators would suck hard.
Predators and Vindicators are some really bad tanks, as well as the Forgefiend.
Comparing a Helldrake to an IG Hellhounds, the Helldrake should probably cost 130 points at most.

Special weapons need a complete revamp costwise. That would help bikers, melters, chosen and Havocs a lot.
Most melee weapons are overcosted as well given how poorly anything that is not a Khorne Berzerker or a Dprince performs
in melee.

And finally, give all units in the codex access to the Chapter Tactics.