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No more comments.

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We'll find out soon enough eh.

 whembly wrote:
 Crimson Devil wrote:
People preach redemption is possible, but they don't really believe it.

I don't know if that's totally true....

Redemption is understanding that everyone isn't perfect and that we all have flaws (we're sinners that is). And that learning from mistakes/sins is possible...

However, there are some "red lines" that many hold is truly unforgivable. Pedophilia is one of those... and James Gunn is in Hollywood where pedophilia is a thing.



I must have missed the part where James Gunn was a paedophile, rather than a guy who made a few tasteless jokes.

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The problem is that people are completely obsessed with tearing others down, and will go to any length to glean enjoyment from that. Social Media to them is like pure ecstasy.



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 Yodhrin wrote:

I must have missed the part where James Gunn was a paedophile, rather than a guy who made a few tasteless jokes.

I find the fact that many assume it and made automatically the logical passage appalling.
We don't know, I personally think it's just despicable humor. But everyone is sure and ready to be Judge, Jury and Executioner.

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At this point I feel obligated to stop giving Disney money.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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 Kaiyanwang wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:

I must have missed the part where James Gunn was a paedophile, rather than a guy who made a few tasteless jokes.

I find the fact that many assume it and made automatically the logical passage appalling.
We don't know, I personally think it's just despicable humor. But everyone is sure and ready to be Judge, Jury and Executioner.


To the right (or the wrong) people, it doesn't in the slightest bit matter whether you are a paedophile, or just make paedophile jokes, or made some jokes 10 years ago, or are completely innocent.

Pizzagate happened because a constituency of Trump supporters were prepared to believe a paedophile ring was being run from the basement of a restaurant without any supporting evidence except the claim by right-wing conspiracy website that it was being done and the people involved were Democrats. Someone actually went down there and took a shot at the place.

That is the level of crazy things have got to.

In this atmosphere of witch-hunting and violence, you can almost see Disney sacking Gunn to prevent an outbreak of alt-right shooting at their film studio.

To be clear, I don't believe all right-wing people are nuts. It's a small but dangerous minority.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Of course, the hand-wringing of a few internet left-wing critics is hilarious. You know damned well that if Gunn was even slightly right of centre they'd be the ones waving the pitchforks.

The lesson to learn from these idiots?

"It's ok when we do it to them, but not ok when they do it to us!"

Funny that. For me the lesson learned is that right wing idiots are all against “PC culture” and all for “free speech” up until it can be used to attack someone left wing, and then those principles fly away very fast.
“Freedom of speech is when we have the right to say anything without consequences, but not anyone else”.

I don't really care about James Gunn being fired btw.

I will go ahead and speak for all the "right wingers" in the world. 99.9% of them think being fired for telling a joke 10 years ago is not only incredibly stupid. It is also Un-American as feth.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/24 17:03:23


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 Xenomancers wrote:
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Of course, the hand-wringing of a few internet left-wing critics is hilarious. You know damned well that if Gunn was even slightly right of centre they'd be the ones waving the pitchforks.

The lesson to learn from these idiots?

"It's ok when we do it to them, but not ok when they do it to us!"

Funny that. For me the lesson learned is that right wing idiots are all against “PC culture” and all for “free speech” up until it can be used to attack someone left wing, and then those principles fly away very fast.
“Freedom of speech is when we have the right to say anything without consequences, but not anyone else”.

I don't really care about James Gunn being fired btw.

I will go ahead and speak for all the "right wingers" in the world. 99.9% of them think being fired for telling a joke 10 years ago is not only incredibly stupid. It is also Un-American as feth.


I think that is true for almost everyone regardless of politics, except the lunatic fringes. Unfortunately, the lunatic fringe is what gets airplay these days.

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mate of mine put it pretty well so i'm just gonna copy paste

His jokes were gak and at the level of edgy 4chan users, but they were also 10 years ago. He also already addressed them saying he grew up and apologised yet again when this all went down. His firing was the absolute height of bs and the world of comedy, good or bad is in a very dangerous position now. I've seen comments even equating him to the likes of Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey... what fething planet are they on? By this logic we better shun and lock up Jimmy Carr, Jim Jefferies, Frankie Boyle and Ricky Gervais now for their words. Cancel their projects too. Nonsense. If you've seen Gunn's early work even up to 2010, you'll see his humour was always dark and somewhat edgy, albeit far better than his tweets... But that's not the point. Give him back this project.
   
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 Xenomancers wrote:
I will go ahead and speak for all the "right wingers" in the world.

How can you do that?
Are you incredibly well versed into the opinion of right-wing people all over the world? What are the opinions of right-wing Iranian people, for instance? Or right-wingers for Kerala?
Unless you lead me to believe otherwise, I'm gonna assume you meant “I will speak for myself and the right-wingers I personally know”.
Still, it's good to know.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is also Un-American as feth.

Historically it's very American.
I mean, the US is notorious for how easy it is to fire people there, and it's also one of the only democracies where it did happen on a very large scale before (see MacCartyism again).
What the US is and what the US believe itself to be are often worlds apart!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/24 18:53:04


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I think he was just generalizing in an attempted response to generalizations

And I'm in complete agreement about the need to push back on the "fringes", feeder - on both sides. The witch hunts and Twitter shaming needs to end!
   
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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
I will go ahead and speak for all the "right wingers" in the world.

How can you do that?
Are you incredibly well versed into the opinion of right-wing people all over the world? What are the opinions of right-wing Iranian people, for instance? Or right-wingers for Kerala?
Unless you lead me to believe otherwise, I'm gonna assume you meant “I will speak for myself and the right-wingers I personally know”.
Still, it's good to know.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is also Un-American as feth.

Historically it's very American.
I mean, the US is notorious for how easy it is to fire people there, and it's also one of the only democracies where it did happen on a very large scale before (see MacCartyism again).
What the US is and what the US believe itself to be are often worlds apart!

You made a generalization about right wingers that is totally off base. Being a human being I think we can all agree that humor is something all cultures are into. Making a crude joke in the appropriate place (your personal home - your personal media) is no reason to lose your job - unless you made a crude joke right to your bosses face in a meeting or something. Honestly - I think you'd find a whole lot more people on the left upset with the comments (right wingers are pretty big on free speech). If it wasn't for the fact that this guy is a well known anti trumper - it would likely be the other way around in this crazed society we are living in today. Personally I don't care what anyone says in a joke. Heck I can't even sing my favorite songs in front of my friends because they are written by Drake and every other word out of his mouth is a word I can't say. This is a screwed up country man. You got that right.

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 Xenomancers wrote:
At this point I feel obligated to stop giving Disney money.


I feel like they'll be OK anyway.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
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 Xenomancers wrote:
You made a generalization about right wingers that is totally off base.

What generalization? I was answering H.B.M.C.'s comment about left-wing idiots by another about right-wing idiots. But I guess his comment was fine?
Are you going to tell me that Gunn wasn't fired as the result of a campaign from some internet right-wingers?
Yeah, I was talking about those right-wingers. The one that constantly complains about PC culture because for them it merely means "left-wing ideas", constantly pretend to be for free speech but would gladly censor everyone else.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Honestly - I think you'd find a whole lot more people on the left upset with the comments (right wingers are pretty big on free speech).

Gee, sure, right-wingers are “pretty big on free speech”. They have been known for their attachment to free speech over the ages! Like, historically, they did MacCarthyism, supported blasphemy laws, supported obscenity laws, …
Right now it's not exactly left wingers trying to prevent sex education.

 Xenomancers wrote:
This is a screwed up country man. You got that right.

Glad we are in agreement on that point.

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 Asherian Command wrote:
 Crimson Devil wrote:
People preach redemption is possible, but they don't really believe it.

Funnily enough that runs counter to most religions and philisophy : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_(theology)


Well, my personal theory is people don't actually believe their religions either. It's more a cultural/tribal identity they can use as a weapon, rather than any actual belief in a greater power.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/25 03:56:42


 
   
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 MonkeyBallistic wrote:


So what has this to do with Trump? This who sorry affair began because some vile, right wing creep has set out to dig up dirt on Gunn because Gunn publicly criticised Trump. It’s a hatchet job and it worked. It worked because the bosses at Disney are spineless.


No, it worked because Disney set themselves as moderating social media behavior, and drawing a line that certain forms of behavior on social media are completely unacceptable (see star wars fans). Suddenly one of their directors is outed as also having unacceptable social media behavior by *their standards.*

They can either sever the relationship or be hypocrites. According to the moral standards they set for others, this was the correct choice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/27 17:43:44


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Gathering the Informations.

Voss wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:


So what has this to do with Trump? This who sorry affair began because some vile, right wing creep has set out to dig up dirt on Gunn because Gunn publicly criticised Trump. It’s a hatchet job and it worked. It worked because the bosses at Disney are spineless.


No, it worked because Disney set themselves as moderating social media behavior, and drawing a line that certain forms of behavior on social media are completely unacceptable (see star wars fans). Suddenly one of their directors is outed as also having unacceptable social media behavior by *their standards.*

They can either sever the relationship or be hypocrites. According to the moral standards they set for others, this was the correct choice.

This is absolute nonsense.

You're conflating current, terrible behavior(with a lame attempt to say it's "just jokes") from a mass of individuals who CLEARLY have no interest in changing their behavior with someone who made jokes ten fething years ago and has actively shifted their behavior since then(with evidence of that shift to boot!).

They knew about that behavior from Gunn ten years ago when they hired him. If it had been the case of him being fired when they "applied the moral standards for others", you'd have a point. But it wasn't. It was a bunch of faux outrage and concern trolling.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/27 18:01:01


 
   
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Voss wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:


So what has this to do with Trump? This who sorry affair began because some vile, right wing creep has set out to dig up dirt on Gunn because Gunn publicly criticised Trump. It’s a hatchet job and it worked. It worked because the bosses at Disney are spineless.


No, it worked because Disney set themselves as moderating social media behavior, and drawing a line that certain forms of behavior on social media are completely unacceptable (see star wars fans). Suddenly one of their directors is outed as also having unacceptable social media behavior by *their standards.*

They can either sever the relationship or be hypocrites. According to the moral standards they set for others, this was the correct choice.


Not really, Gunns past jokes were known to Disney. It was brought up, apologized for, and he worked towards making amends for it since he wished up. Since this was dug up again and suddenly became a fire storm with a lot of people because they didn't bother to dig deeper into it to find out all this came up before. Should people be surprised that Disney reacted the way they did now that people are being whipped up into a fury over it? Absolutely not. They saw a possible infection and cut it out rather than waiting to see if it could be treated. It might not be fair, but it is what it is. As for whether he should be forgiven or not, no matter what, that's up to you. I don't forgive someone's actions for being drunk as my dad was nearly killed by a drunk driver. I do respect an alcoholic who actively fights their addiction though.

It should be noted that a pedophile doesn't necessarily equal a sexual predator who exploits children. I actually remember reading an article about a guy who was a pedophile and the difficulties he had trying to actually get psychiatric treatment for it. The fact that he was able to come forward to his parents, several doctors, and the interviewer about it leads me to believe his claims that he'd never done anything to exploit children. It was stomach turning for me to imagine what that's gotta be like, but I actually felt sorry for him rather than angry. While I still feel that child molesters should be exempt from any protection against cruel and unusual punishments, I actually try to avoid saying pedophile now.
   
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Firing him was stupid. Dredging up jokes from a decade ago is stupid. This entire affair is stupid, and has made everyone involved look worse as a result.

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 Kanluwen wrote:
Voss wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:


So what has this to do with Trump? This who sorry affair began because some vile, right wing creep has set out to dig up dirt on Gunn because Gunn publicly criticised Trump. It’s a hatchet job and it worked. It worked because the bosses at Disney are spineless.


No, it worked because Disney set themselves as moderating social media behavior, and drawing a line that certain forms of behavior on social media are completely unacceptable (see star wars fans). Suddenly one of their directors is outed as also having unacceptable social media behavior by *their standards.*

They can either sever the relationship or be hypocrites. According to the moral standards they set for others, this was the correct choice.

This is absolute nonsense.

You're conflating current, terrible behavior(with a lame attempt to say it's "just jokes") from a mass of individuals who CLEARLY have no interest in changing their behavior with someone who made jokes ten fething years ago and has actively shifted their behavior since then(with evidence of that shift to boot!).

I'm not conflating anything actually. I'm saying now that Disney has taken a public stance on social media behavior, they're stuck applying it to their own people as well. It isn't about Gunn, it isn't about the Star Wars fans. It's about the position Disney has taken as a corporation. Sacrificing one director to their agenda [likely just one movie early] probably isn't going to cost them much sleep. But it gives them moral authority (or at least the appearance of it), and reinforces their family image. Which even though we all know they've got a lot of entertainment for adults and crappy behavior in their past and present, image matters. They're frankly one of the biggest kids entertainment factories on the planet at this point. Cradle to grave entertainment really, but corporate image is the kids stuff. So this is very much in keeping on how they want to be perceived.

They knew about that behavior from Gunn ten years ago when they hired him.

Sure. But they hadn't publicly stated that all crappy behavior on social media is bad at the time. Now they have, and they have to deal with the consequences of that stance.
Is it a low blow that someone brought up 10 year old crap? Sure. But they have to deal with it just the same. Social media gets a lot more attention than it did 10 years ago, when it was basically just another toy for kids/young adults. Now it seriously shapes (and shakes) global politics.


@Skaorn- forgiveness isn't relevant to anything I said, nor is pedophila. It's about corporate image (and therefor money), and maybe a 'own team' sacrifice to get idiots on social media to calm the *@#*( down. Doubt that part will work, and it probably isn't even sincere, but those are the issues involved.


@HBMC- yeah, it does make the people involved look worse. But the only people who matter in this case are Gunn and Disney. The right wing jack-donkey who dragged it up doesn't care about his image. So as the major affected party, of course Disney is going to try to do damage control to try to mitigate things.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/28 02:43:24


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Random thought: if James Gunn knew that working for Disney would potentially open him up to higher scrutiny, AND he had admitted to and apologized for the previous tweets and the behaviors attached to them, why didn't he delete those things back when he started filming GOTG? It'd seem that if something you posted was not indicative of your mindset/moral compass/whatever, you would get rid of those posts. Letting them stand says more in the court of public opinion than any other statement you could make.

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 Just Tony wrote:
Random thought: if James Gunn knew that working for Disney would potentially open him up to higher scrutiny, AND he had admitted to and apologized for the previous tweets and the behaviors attached to them, why didn't he delete those things back when he started filming GOTG? It'd seem that if something you posted was not indicative of your mindset/moral compass/whatever, you would get rid of those posts. Letting them stand says more in the court of public opinion than any other statement you could make.
But, alternatively, if you've posted something and then apologised for it, you should be able to reasonably rest in the knowledge that what you've said and since rescinded should not be held against you.
Especially years after the fact.

Working for Disney wasn't the problem. The problem is that someone wanted to silence his political voice and influence, so took some quotes out of context (the context being that they were years old and had been apologised for) and threatened his image.

Deleting something is fine, but sometimes, things can be too far back to delete, and an apology to everyone (you'd think) would be enough to say "I don't believe in this any more". Unfortunately, to some people, that's not the case.


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Now that Disney owns... Everything... What will happen to Alien? Deadpool? Simpson's?! Disney, for the most part, avoids violence, gore, foul language and religion. How can they fire someone for making bad jokes ages ago and then make Deadpool 3?

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Gathering the Informations.

 Just Tony wrote:
Random thought: if James Gunn knew that working for Disney would potentially open him up to higher scrutiny, AND he had admitted to and apologized for the previous tweets and the behaviors attached to them, why didn't he delete those things back when he started filming GOTG? It'd seem that if something you posted was not indicative of your mindset/moral compass/whatever, you would get rid of those posts. Letting them stand says more in the court of public opinion than any other statement you could make.

Deleting the tweets wouldn't have stopped this. There's websites that archive tweets.

More than that, it's rather telling that Rian Johnson(director of "The Last Jedi") is now catching flak because he's deleted 21k tweets that he considered things that "could be used or taken out of context".
   
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 Just Tony wrote:
Random thought: if James Gunn knew that working for Disney would potentially open him up to higher scrutiny, AND he had admitted to and apologized for the previous tweets and the behaviors attached to them, why didn't he delete those things back when he started filming GOTG? It'd seem that if something you posted was not indicative of your mindset/moral compass/whatever, you would get rid of those posts. Letting them stand says more in the court of public opinion than any other statement you could make.


He deleted them six years ago, but they're still around on some tweet archives.


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 Just Tony wrote:
Random thought: if James Gunn knew that working for Disney would potentially open him up to higher scrutiny, AND he had admitted to and apologized for the previous tweets and the behaviors attached to them, why didn't he delete those things back when he started filming GOTG? It'd seem that if something you posted was not indicative of your mindset/moral compass/whatever, you would get rid of those posts. Letting them stand says more in the court of public opinion than any other statement you could make.


Perhaps because he had owned up to and apologized for the tweets and Disney were OK with that position.

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 DeffDred wrote:
Now that Disney owns... Everything... What will happen to Alien? Deadpool? Simpson's?! Disney, for the most part, avoids violence, gore, foul language and religion. How can they fire someone for making bad jokes ages ago and then make Deadpool 3?

Well, Disney used to publish ICP. The guys who raps a song where the narrator gloats about having sex with the corpse of their girlfriend every night, with some lovely details like the fact the girlfriend died in 1985 (so 10 years before the song was released), full of gory details.


Oh, I forgot some really meaningful detail: ICP may have been with Disney at the time, but they didn't give up their own IP. They were able to say “Screw Disney, we're going our own way.”. Unlike all the other stuff you quoted, where the IP belongs to the company instead of the author.
I hate the fact that some company can own characters like this and think it should be against the law!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/28 21:31:26


"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
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 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Just Tony wrote:
Random thought: if James Gunn knew that working for Disney would potentially open him up to higher scrutiny, AND he had admitted to and apologized for the previous tweets and the behaviors attached to them, why didn't he delete those things back when he started filming GOTG? It'd seem that if something you posted was not indicative of your mindset/moral compass/whatever, you would get rid of those posts. Letting them stand says more in the court of public opinion than any other statement you could make.


Perhaps because he had owned up to and apologized for the tweets and Disney were OK with that position.


Then I'm perplexed as to why Disney would suddenly NOT be okay with that position. If they were genuinely okay with that sort of dirty laundry hanging out on the back porch somewhere, pointing it out shouldn't have made a difference.

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 Just Tony wrote:

Then I'm perplexed as to why Disney would suddenly NOT be okay with that position. If they were genuinely okay with that sort of dirty laundry hanging out on the back porch somewhere, pointing it out shouldn't have made a difference.


Considering that Disney has been ok with employing actual convicted pedos such as Brian Peck in the past...


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FETHING HELL!!!!

I didn't know that about Brian Peck. I'm extremely angry right now.
   
 
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