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It would be neat to see a series which handled diplomacy and combat like the new Battlestar all on a single exploratory ship.

So not just the constant threat or discovery of new things; but also the internal politics of the diplomatic core arguing with the military

Academy!

And they’re on their Holibobs. More character and their background development.

Skorts are back, baby!

Bit tonal whiplash after last week’s more serious affair, but it is nice to see our Young Adults, in a show for Young Adults, just get to be Young Adults. Their world too, yeah?

Main background building is for Posh Lad, which is nice. For someone I feared was gonna be lazy and one dimensional Wealthy Jock, he’s actually not. And in a way, there are echoes of Deanna trying to dodge Lwxana’s constant attempts to find her a husband.

There is a new Star Trek Voyager game that just came out where you can micromanage the heck out of the ship while trying to get your crew home. It looks amazing.

Are you allowed to shoot Neelix out an airlock and give Harry Kim a promotion?

Is it super realistic in that your previous actions and decisions as Captain don’t form any basis for how you’ll approach and consider the next problem?

I always found the whole promotion thing funny cause we are honestly never fully clear on what perks you get from promotion itself.

In fact for the most part crew on a starship seem to have equal quality of quarters (barring the Lower Decks crew of course). Plus with replicators and so forth the rich-poor divide, at least on ship, seems to be very marginal.

Plus its not like they could promote and transfer him to another ship anyway.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Are you allowed to shoot Neelix out an airlock and give Harry Kim a promotion?

Is it super realistic in that your previous actions and decisions as Captain don’t form any basis for how you’ll approach and consider the next problem?

Some reviewers on Steam point out that at this time the game uses sporadic autosaves and doesn't have a save on exit function, so it's conceivable that what happened last time on Voyager didn't actually happen. Good enough?

Not until we can vent Neelix.

Never, until we can vent Neelix.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
I always found the whole promotion thing funny cause we are honestly never fully clear on what perks you get from promotion itself.

In fact for the most part crew on a starship seem to have equal quality of quarters (barring the Lower Decks crew of course). Plus with replicators and so forth the rich-poor divide, at least on ship, seems to be very marginal.

Plus its not like they could promote and transfer him to another ship anyway.

I see where you’re coming from. But it’s to do with the chain of command. Let’s say Janeway and Chakotay break protocol, travel in the same shuttle and both are lost.

The next Captain would be drawn from among the senior staff, and from there their First Officer chosen. And so on down the chain of command, creating a clear line of succession via responsibility.

Harry Kim is a young lad, sure. He’s not previously well experience, that’s true. But? He is Bridge Crew. So even if there are other, longer serving Ensigns? He’s been closer to the big decisions than most for a decent period of time. Yet, if he’s given no promotion? He could miss out on the Captaincy/higher command, because Janeway has utter contempt for her crew and their careers and development.

With no ship to transfer to? But not exactly any new crew coming aboard? Why shouldn’t you end up with an entirely veteran crew of Lieutenants? Where’s the harm? If they’ve literally made the grade during their service? Promote them. Otherwise you can end up with morons like Red Squad getting everyone killed. How confident do you think Kim would be if command was foisted upon him, knowing his Captain never believed in him enough to give him any kind of promotion?

We know there are exams to be taken. Especially for Command. So let your Ensigns continue their career path. Instil in them the necessary wisdom, and give them the experience so far as you can manage in such unusual circumstances.

Example from my life? As a kid, I enjoyed Drama. In primary school I was involved in school productions, and was understudy for Ebeneezer Scrooge. I was due to be part of the chorus line for the Scout Gang Show before we moved to England. First year of secondary school we had a marvellous nutter as a Drama Teacher. End of year we did our own silly plays, and the one I helped write and performed was considered one of the best (demon hypnotist, can’t remember much more). Sadly marvellous nutter retired. And was replaced by a new drama teacher that…..had her favourites. She’d never seen me act. She’d never read any scene I’d written. She wouldn’t even let me audition. That was reserved for her favourites. Knocked the wind right out of a young, still developing me. To have someone show that little confidence without even giving me so much as a sniff of a chance ruined the appeal.

To Harry Kim? Janeway is that dreadful teacher. Someone who just will not give him a chance or real recognition. Despite the extreme risks involved in their getting home, Janeway looked no further than the end of her nose. No thoughts to establishing proper training and an extended chain of command to account for said increased risks. The crew she arrived with is all the crew she was ever able to expect. Wouldn’t guess it from her refusal to promote and encourage.

I suspect but have no evidence that the only way to lose Neelix is to let justice prevail for Tuvix.

But who knows, they specifically advertise the what if scenarios in the game. Ideally you don't have to pick him up in the first place.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

With no ship to transfer to? But not exactly any new crew coming aboard? Why shouldn’t you end up with an entirely veteran crew of Lieutenants? Where’s the harm? If they’ve literally made the grade during their service? Promote them. Otherwise you can end up with morons like Red Squad getting everyone killed. How confident do you think Kim would be if command was foisted upon him, knowing his Captain never believed in him enough to give him any kind of promotion?

We know there are exams to be taken. Especially for Command. So let your Ensigns continue their career path. Instil in them the necessary wisdom, and give them the experience so far as you can manage in such unusual circumstances.

Thing is what's progression with no endgoal?
You could promote Harry to Admiral, but he's still on Voyager in the wrong quadrant of the galaxy with just Voyager.
There's no new person to replace him and take his place and there's no new role for him to take on to be promoted into. We've also limited to no real idea as to what perks he'd get with promotion outside of rank and duties and, on Voyager, there isn't really space for him to gain an promoted room or such anyway.

So essentially he gets a pip on his collar, perhaps a change of clothing colour, but then still has to fill the same exact role he had before.

I also get the impression that not promoting is Janeways attempt to try and kind of hold Voyager in a kind of stasis bubble. Just keep the wheels turning as they were turning yesterday to hold the crew together in their roles whilst they work out their way home. Because in theory all the crew is going to achieve things, improve and rise to the challenge. The next result is everyone gets promoted but no one can change their roles or duties nor bunks because there's no where for them to move up and out; nor any replacements to fill them coming in fresh.



Also it honestly raises questions about how society works in the Federation in terms of what a higher rank actually means. In the real world people aspire to promotion in a great part because it comes with more money. That means more potential resources for yourself. There can also be other perks like company cars; more time off; greater freedom to control your work-time (though often countered by increased responsibilities).
In the Federation you don't have a resource scarce society because of replicators. They don't seem to operate a concept of monetary value like we do (though they do grasp it since we do see them gamble and so forth in Quarks). There's clearly still social gain and power going on with the higher you rise, but resource wise it doesn't seem to be a factor. Which means that in theory there's much more scope to rise so far and then find satisfaction in your current level.

Harry will end up the same as Lieutenant Picard after Q changed his rank

But yes, get home, get ordered around by someone 3 years out of the academy on the standard career track.

Maybe they don't have brevet ranks for a captain to bestow?

Even worse, you know he will fail the promotion board because he will only demonstrate the behaviours he has seen Janeway and the terrorists do, and fluff the exam because he will use real world experience not the book answers expected

I would expect he would retire, then form a crew of similar jilted people and become a privateer in the Klingon empire.

In the 23rd to whatever century its in now promotion Trek still seems to operate on nepotism, old friends and family networks - just like real life - its not what you know its who you know.

I mean look at "Raffi" in Picard - should never be allowed on a ship never mind command one but who is she sleeping with...friends with etc etc

re Voyager - they really should have been killing people off and having to deal with local recruitment so your surviving star fleet crew rose in ranks but then had to deal with the issues like = do you have to be Star Fleet to be high rank.

Yes they did this a bit with Seven /Marquis but it could have been much more

 Ghaz wrote:
From Wikipedia

A war college is a senior military academy which is normally intended for veteran military officers and whose purpose is to educate and 'train on' senior military tacticians, strategists, and leaders. It is also often the place where advanced tactical and strategic thought is conducted, both for the purpose of developing doctrine and for the purpose of identifying implications and shifts in long-term patterns.

It should have essentially the same definition in the Star Trek universe, making sure that the senior Star Fleet officers are prepared for any military action they may need to take.

Well its not that. They are not senior veterans. They are young cadets. I'm not even sure they are Star Fleet.

I'm going to hate myself for asking this, but are there good episodes of Discovery and Strange New Worlds that I can just watch and enjoy without subjecting myself to the whole run?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
There is a new Star Trek Voyager game that just came out where you can micromanage the heck out of the ship while trying to get your crew home. It looks amazing.

Oh cool! Thanks for the heads up. I hope it is good.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
There is a new Star Trek Voyager game that just came out where you can micromanage the heck out of the ship while trying to get your crew home. It looks amazing.

Oh cool! Thanks for the heads up. I hope it is good.

Here's a preview of it:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DU57oEjlJhh/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

It's a "survival game." And I saw Tuvix in one of the shots.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
There is a new Star Trek Voyager game that just came out where you can micromanage the heck out of the ship while trying to get your crew home. It looks amazing.

Oh cool! Thanks for the heads up. I hope it is good.

Here's a preview of it:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DU57oEjlJhh/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

It's a "survival game." And I saw Tuvix in one of the shots.

That's what's intriguing me. I like games like Frostpunk and This War of Mine. Seems like this could be the Star Trek version of that.

All of SNW is worth it.

Even when it's not good, it's not bad.

I just started Disco S5 and it rises to Voyager's level.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm going to hate myself for asking this, but are there good episodes of Discovery and Strange New Worlds that I can just watch and enjoy without subjecting myself to the whole run?

Most of SNW is in the + category.
There'll probably be a few episodes you dont like, but that's no different than any season of anything, right?

Discovery on the other hand....
Is pretty much the opposite of SNW.
Every season there's more episodes to dislike thsn like. :(
Its best episodes occur early on. After that? Its about as good as mediocre Voyager without the DR.

ccs wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm going to hate myself for asking this, but are there good episodes of Discovery and Strange New Worlds that I can just watch and enjoy without subjecting myself to the whole run?

Most of SNW is in the + category.
There'll probably be a few episodes you dont like, but that's no different than any season of anything, right?

I think that describes it pretty well. Perhaps even pretty good.

The only episodes of Discovery I would recommend are two focused on Saru. The "Short Treks" short The Brightest Star, which is the story of how Saru came to be in Star Fleet and S2E6 The Sound of Thunder which has Saru return to his home planet.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm going to hate myself for asking this, but are there good episodes of Discovery and Strange New Worlds that I can just watch and enjoy without subjecting myself to the whole run?

SNW first season is very good, second season is okay mostly, 3rd season is pretty much rubbish outside of 2 episodes. I hope they don’t continue that trend. As they said on Ex-Astris Scientia in a review: The makers seem to forget that they make a series for the people in front of the screen and not for the people in front of the camera.

Disco? I didn't make it past the first episode of 4th season, because it was just as terrible as the stuff before that. The very first Episode is okay, though. Anything with Pike in season 2 is watchable, too. Third season had some nice episodes at the start, but it all fell apart when they revealed that the reason for the Burn (just like the reason for the Red Angel in season 2) was pants on head Voy:Threshold-style stupid. The writing of Disco overall is abysmal, and they put Burnham in the centre all the time, yet they don’t have any consistent concept about her at all. And just like Abramstrek Disco just lacks any philosophical or moral questions, so it lacks what sets ST traditionally apart from other popular Sci-Fi.

Discovery suffers from a number of issues apart from being centered around one character being the center of everything ever and being the best at everything ever,

It does not have a sense of humour, a sense of wonder, it does not do consequences, it does not make sense within its own take on the ST universe.

There are some interesting characters but they are so constrained with having to be orbiters around Burnham's sun of magnificence that they never get a chance to really shine.

Not seen SNW - but Pike and co were good in Discovery - but of course they had to be inferior in every way to Burnham in her show.

It doubled down on everything I disliked about Enterprise.

Another prequel nobody particularly asked for. And worse? One meant to happen roughly concurrently with ToS.

Completely different looking tech. Including stuff (holoprojector communicator thing) said to be experimental in DS9’s era.

Worse, as with so, so many prequels? It shared the same bizarre “maybe it’s a cult and part of a ritual?” Obsession with taking Interesting Questions and providing the at once least interesting and least coherent answers.

Disco Season 5

Finally getting to it. Halfway through. The whole season is going to be a fetch quest isn't it?

Already really tired of Space Bonny and Space Clyde. I could buy them getting away once or twice but they are just not selling the idea they're a match for the Disco crew and all of Star Fleet.

Oh, and my comment about answering interesting questions in the least interesting way?

Tell me. What do Breen look like under their clothes?

Oh.

Finally finished Picard Season 2... not bad, a bit disjointed in parts though.

Notice everything looks better in Season 3... not too sure about the Titan, bit the Helios is a cool looking ship.

(My favorite ship will forever be the USS Intrepid from Enterprise)

My favourite ship style is TOS movie-era. Refit Connie, Miranda and Excelsior are the right mix of sleek and purposeful.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh, and my comment about answering interesting questions in the least interesting way?

Tell me. What do Breen look like under their clothes?

Oh.

What? You're disappointed to wait 30 years to find out they're Green Lizard Men?

Spoiler Alert?

Sheesh, give away all the plot points, why dontcha?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh, and my comment about answering interesting questions in the least interesting way?

Tell me. What do Breen look like under their clothes?

Oh.

What? You're disappointed to wait 30 years to find out they're Green Lizard Men?

When they’re not being crystalline. Or human looking.

I remember the name "Breen" but couldn't remember anything about them.

The Gorn are supposed to be the Green Lizard Men, but instead they went with Temu Xenomorph.