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Still can’t stand the amination and voice acting in Lower Decks, so just have to take people’s word for it on that one.

I have tried. I genuinely have. But it’s just anathema to me.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Still can’t stand the amination and voice acting in Lower Decks, so just have to take people’s word for it on that one.

I have tried. I genuinely have. But it’s just anathema to me.

The last Episode of season 1 LD made me cheer in front of the TV, which had happened the last time when the Klingons joined that battle in DS9.
And it basically just got better from there. But maybe the original voice acting is more annoying than the german translation.

Prodigy is Voyager season 8. Or what I had hoped Picard would be for TNG but wasn't. And the only Nu-Trek series that pulled off proper serial writing and not just "people stumbling without a clue from episode to episode" like Picard season 2 or Disco.

Meanwhile I still don't understand what people found in Pic Season 3, for 8 episodes the story went extremely slowly to then just casually destroy starfleet in the last two remaining episodes. And getting back the old Crew didn't really help when they acted mostly out of character.

Plot be damned. The animation irritates me. Where they can’t draw faces beyond “smug”, “goofy” and “panicked”.

Also in an age of Memberberries? It just seems the most Memberberries of all Memberberries, and nothing but Memberberries.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Plot be damned. The animation irritates me. Where they can’t draw faces beyond “smug”, “goofy” and “panicked”.

Also in an age of Memberberries? It just seems the most Memberberries of all Memberberries, and nothing but Memberberries.

That was why I could never finish SNW. It was rehash, reboot, and retell.

As bad as Discovery is (and totally invalidates Voyager) it still has some new ideas in it.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Plot be damned. The animation irritates me. Where they can’t draw faces beyond “smug”, “goofy” and “panicked”.

Also in an age of Memberberries? It just seems the most Memberberries of all Memberberries, and nothing but Memberberries.

That was why I could never finish SNW. It was rehash, reboot, and retell.

As bad as Discovery is (and totally invalidates Voyager) it still has some new ideas in it.

I gave up on Discovery during its first season and from the many complaints I have heard never regretted that decision, but I have never heard anyone mention it invalidating Voyager, so pray tell?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Plot be damned. The animation irritates me. Where they can’t draw faces beyond “smug”, “goofy” and “panicked”.

Also in an age of Memberberries? It just seems the most Memberberries of all Memberberries, and nothing but Memberberries.

That was why I could never finish SNW. It was rehash, reboot, and retell.

As bad as Discovery is (and totally invalidates Voyager) it still has some new ideas in it.

And I feel the exact opposite about Strange New Worlds. It's the best Trek we've gotten in years.

 Jadenim wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Plot be damned. The animation irritates me. Where they can’t draw faces beyond “smug”, “goofy” and “panicked”.

Also in an age of Memberberries? It just seems the most Memberberries of all Memberberries, and nothing but Memberberries.

That was why I could never finish SNW. It was rehash, reboot, and retell.

As bad as Discovery is (and totally invalidates Voyager) it still has some new ideas in it.

I gave up on Discovery during its first season and from the many complaints I have heard never regretted that decision, but I have never heard anyone mention it invalidating Voyager, so pray tell?

Starfleet essentially has in its back pocket a hyper fast ship teleporting device that let's their ships travel ridiculously large distances in no time at all.

Voyager's Computers would have known about this and they could've used it to get home in a couple weeks at the top end.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Plot be damned. The animation irritates me. Where they can’t draw faces beyond “smug”, “goofy” and “panicked”.

Also in an age of Memberberries? It just seems the most Memberberries of all Memberberries, and nothing but Memberberries.

That was why I could never finish SNW. It was rehash, reboot, and retell.

As bad as Discovery is (and totally invalidates Voyager) it still has some new ideas in it.

I gave up on Discovery during its first season and from the many complaints I have heard never regretted that decision, but I have never heard anyone mention it invalidating Voyager, so pray tell?

Starfleet essentially has in its back pocket a hyper fast ship teleporting device that let's their ships travel ridiculously large distances in no time at all.

Voyager's Computers would have known about this and they could've used it to get home in a couple weeks at the top end.

This is the second major problem with Discovery, after the stupidity that is Burnham. They made the bizarre decision to set it 10 years before ToS, purely so they could make Burnham the adopted sister of Spock (everything bad about the series eventually comes back to her). None of the rest of the series requires it to be set in that timeline and you could easily remove it from that point in the timeline and place it almost anywhere else and have it still work. By setting it when they did, you end up having to explain away why the mushroom drive doesn't exist in future series. We know there's this extra fast way to travel and even if the Federation somehow manages to keep it a secret, it seems really unlikely that no other civilisation in the intervening few centuries discovers and exploits it. It's barely believable that none of the civilisations around at the time of Discovery noticed what was going on. Did the Romulans and Klingons not have spy networks? A major plot point in the first season of Discovery is about a Klingon spy. Did they just not tell anyone about his miraculous new FTL capability?

Man, I hate Discovery...

Gotcha, I always thought the spore drive was dumb and inconsistent with the rest of the lore, but hadn’t given it much thought beyond that

IIRC Discovery stopped using the spore drive because it was damaging the habitat the space bear things that I can’t remember the name of lived in. They previously released the one they had and swapped to Stamis running the drive.

Which is very Starfleet but something S31 would definitely sneer at. Let along any of the other alien races.



I’m currently catching up on SNW S2 and Academy. Really enjoyed the former…strongly dislike the later.


Short version is to describe it in the way they use SFX. SNW seems to use practical stuff alongside the CGI. That CGI seems designed to fit in with the practical stuff. I feel they have tried to make it look as realistic as as thing about starships can be.

Academy is just too shiny. The whole thing glows unnecessarily.

Spore Drive require either enslaving the Mega Spehss Bear, or genetic editing of a Smelly Hoomans.

Now, given the advantages? I’m going to genuinely give that one as a very, very rare Disco Win. A period where despite the Spore Drive’s usefulness? The morals won out.

Stamis got a sort-of-I-suppose-kinda-if-we-squint-and-wear-someone-else’s-specs-and-all-drink-heavily pass because he actively volunteered for it. And whilst it’s been a while, did so in relative “I do this or we all die and someone else gets the tech” extremis.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Spore Drive require either enslaving the Mega Spehss Bear, or genetic editing of a Smelly Hoomans.

Now, given the advantages? I’m going to genuinely give that one as a very, very rare Disco Win. A period where despite the Spore Drive’s usefulness? The morals won out.

Stamis got a sort-of-I-suppose-kinda-if-we-squint-and-wear-someone-else’s-specs-and-all-drink-heavily pass because he actively volunteered for it. And whilst it’s been a while, did so in relative “I do this or we all die and someone else gets the tech” extremis.

It makes sense from the Federation's perspective, for sure. The problem is they've still invented a technology that every civilization would want and just conveniently decided nobody else discovers it. Like so much of Discovery, it was a poorly conceived and badly implemented part of the plot that complicates everything else going forward.

 Jadenim wrote:
Gotcha, I always thought the spore drive was dumb and inconsistent with the rest of the lore, but hadn’t given it much thought beyond that

You're not alone in this, I don't think the writers gave much thought to anything going on in Disco either.

Tardigrades! Damn middle aged brain.

It could be the Spore Drive’s potential lead to a pact or agreement that “maybe we don’t use this, as it would just lead to a horrific arms race”.

We’ve seen similar accords, such as No Federation Cloaking Devices. And for authoritarian regimes such as say, Romulan Star Empire and the Cardassians? It’s too much power to entrust a Captain with. Not only for rogue strikes against enemies, but against your own government. Surprise attacks that come with absolutely no warning, and if I’m remembering correctly, at any given co-ordinates.

So if it’s not been explained in canon? Those seem quite valid reasons for “maybe we sit this one out”?

But isn't this a setting where all the dilithum is gone? Most space factions wouldn't be able to hold their empires together without it.

At that point the "danger" of the new drive would be trumped by the simple reality of "without it we can't function beyond a single world very well at all"

A quick thought on Picard S3, could anyone stand Junior? He was a worse Marty Stu than Wesley or Burnham. I just wanted him dead every time we saw his smug face and his Accents are Genetic voice.

Unbearable.

Overread wrote:But isn't this a setting where all the dilithum is gone? Most space factions wouldn't be able to hold their empires together without it.

At that point the "danger" of the new drive would be trumped by the simple reality of "without it we can't function beyond a single world very well at all"

They did kinda-sorta forget that there's a whole bunch of non-dilithium-based FTL travel out there already. Romulans have had Singularity Drives for centuries for example. Just because their planet blew up doesn't mean all those birds of prey are dead in space

Kid_Kyoto wrote:A quick thought on Picard S3, could anyone stand Junior? He was a worse Marty Stu than Wesley or Burnham. I just wanted him dead every time we saw his smug face and his Accents are Genetic voice.

Unbearable.

Season 3 should have been 10 minutes long:
Borg Queen Jurati: "By the way I'm picking up a whole bunch of Borg nanites on almost everyone, let me go ahead and send you the deactivation codes for those. And there's a Borg transmission coming from Jupiter you might wanna check out"

But yes mini-Picard was annoying. I have issues with every part of Picard:
Season 1 being based around "OMG Data has a Daughter" and they mention Lal once. Also introducing a machine empire uber-threat that goes fragging nowhere
Season 2 giving us a new, friendly Borg Queen that goes absolutely fragging nowhere
Season 3 giving us "OMG Picard has a son" and Q has a special interest in him that goes fragging nowhere

Honestly Prodigy season 3 is better than Picard seasons 1 & 2

I will say that a LOT of the Data focused content after the TNG series feels like they rehash Data plotlines from the series. The films also felt very much like this and its a problem because the Data in the TV Series basically did all those things that are big events in the films/Picard series.



That said I think the biggest problem Picard season 1 has is that there isn't a season 0.5 that fills the time in between TNG and the Romulan disaster and Picards retirement. We get it in flashbacks but we aren't there for the journey and that ends up feeling difficult to get to grips with because it means the character we know and love has changed and the setting has moved on through major events that we didn't see happen.



I do also agree about the lack of season continuity - es why didn't Jurati or someone from the Friendly Borg help out and why didn't they reach out to them.

Also you forgot season 3 ends with Seven having her own ship -- darn it we need that plot line going somewhere!!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
A quick thought on Picard S3, could anyone stand Junior?

Until you brought him up just now I had completely forgot there was a "Junior".

 Overread wrote:
But isn't this a setting where all the dilithum is gone? Most space factions wouldn't be able to hold their empires together without it.

Honestly delete that entire concept going forward in my book. It's far and away the dumbest of a long list of dumb detractions Discovery made to Star Trek. I'd applaud any future works just declaring the entire Kurtzman era sans Lower Decks and Prodigy non-canon. SNWs can stay I guess because it's at the very least inoffensive for the most part but Discovery and Picard scream 'we didn't want to write Star Trek, but they told us to write Star Trek so we wrote what we wanted and slapped "Star Trek" on it.'

Slipspace wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Plot be damned. The animation irritates me. Where they can’t draw faces beyond “smug”, “goofy” and “panicked”.

Also in an age of Memberberries? It just seems the most Memberberries of all Memberberries, and nothing but Memberberries.

That was why I could never finish SNW. It was rehash, reboot, and retell.

As bad as Discovery is (and totally invalidates Voyager) it still has some new ideas in it.

I gave up on Discovery during its first season and from the many complaints I have heard never regretted that decision, but I have never heard anyone mention it invalidating Voyager, so pray tell?

Starfleet essentially has in its back pocket a hyper fast ship teleporting device that let's their ships travel ridiculously large distances in no time at all.

Voyager's Computers would have known about this and they could've used it to get home in a couple weeks at the top end.

This is the second major problem with Discovery, after the stupidity that is Burnham. They made the bizarre decision to set it 10 years before ToS, purely so they could make Burnham the adopted sister of Spock (everything bad about the series eventually comes back to her). None of the rest of the series requires it to be set in that timeline and you could easily remove it from that point in the timeline and place it almost anywhere else and have it still work. By setting it when they did, you end up having to explain away why the mushroom drive doesn't exist in future series. We know there's this extra fast way to travel and even if the Federation somehow manages to keep it a secret, it seems really unlikely that no other civilisation in the intervening few centuries discovers and exploits it. It's barely believable that none of the civilisations around at the time of Discovery noticed what was going on. Did the Romulans and Klingons not have spy networks? A major plot point in the first season of Discovery is about a Klingon spy. Did they just not tell anyone about his miraculous new FTL capability?

Man, I hate Discovery...

Why would I have to do that? Star Trek has already long provided an answer. Just assume Discovery & its spinoffs are their own timeline.
You've got:
The OS timeline.
The Kelvin timeline.
The Mirror Universe.
And now the Discovery timeline (no matter what the writers/execs & such want to claim.)

Hell, in some future show/movie they could give it the Enterprise treatment & reveal the whole mess to just be in-universe fiction....

 LordofHats wrote:

 Overread wrote:
But isn't this a setting where all the dilithum is gone? Most space factions wouldn't be able to hold their empires together without it.

Honestly delete that entire concept going forward in my book. It's far and away the dumbest of a long list of dumb detractions Discovery made to Star Trek. I'd applaud any future works just declaring the entire Kurtzman era sans Lower Decks and Prodigy non-canon. SNWs can stay I guess because it's at the very least inoffensive for the most part but Discovery and Picard scream 'we didn't want to write Star Trek, but they told us to write Star Trek so we wrote what we wanted and slapped "Star Trek" on it.'

I'd argue Picard can stay it just needs to connect the dots between its seasons better. It's in that post DS9 darker era; just coming so late to the table when fans are honestly more hot for a regular exploration and return to the roots of Trek.
Plus it does setup at least 2 potential long term stories that would be really interesting.

a) A ship that goes into the portal at the end of Season 2. A perfect way to explore another Galaxy (since apparently producers/writers feel like the whole milky way is discovered). With the right effects and CGI they could go really off the rails with alien designs in a Galaxy that doesn't have the bipedal dominance that the Milky Way clearly has.

b) Seven doing her own thing; perhaps exploring into former Borg Territory. Because lets face it Voyager missed out a whole chunk of that quadrant it was in.


OR - and here's a shocker - combine the two. Seven exploring a new Galaxy!

ccs wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Plot be damned. The animation irritates me. Where they can’t draw faces beyond “smug”, “goofy” and “panicked”.

Also in an age of Memberberries? It just seems the most Memberberries of all Memberberries, and nothing but Memberberries.

That was why I could never finish SNW. It was rehash, reboot, and retell.

As bad as Discovery is (and totally invalidates Voyager) it still has some new ideas in it.

I gave up on Discovery during its first season and from the many complaints I have heard never regretted that decision, but I have never heard anyone mention it invalidating Voyager, so pray tell?

Starfleet essentially has in its back pocket a hyper fast ship teleporting device that let's their ships travel ridiculously large distances in no time at all.

Voyager's Computers would have known about this and they could've used it to get home in a couple weeks at the top end.

This is the second major problem with Discovery, after the stupidity that is Burnham. They made the bizarre decision to set it 10 years before ToS, purely so they could make Burnham the adopted sister of Spock (everything bad about the series eventually comes back to her). None of the rest of the series requires it to be set in that timeline and you could easily remove it from that point in the timeline and place it almost anywhere else and have it still work. By setting it when they did, you end up having to explain away why the mushroom drive doesn't exist in future series. We know there's this extra fast way to travel and even if the Federation somehow manages to keep it a secret, it seems really unlikely that no other civilisation in the intervening few centuries discovers and exploits it. It's barely believable that none of the civilisations around at the time of Discovery noticed what was going on. Did the Romulans and Klingons not have spy networks? A major plot point in the first season of Discovery is about a Klingon spy. Did they just not tell anyone about his miraculous new FTL capability?

Man, I hate Discovery...

Why would I have to do that? Star Trek has already long provided an answer. Just assume Discovery & its spinoffs are their own timeline.
You've got:
The OS timeline.
The Kelvin timeline.
The Mirror Universe.
And now the Discovery timeline (no matter what the writers/execs & such want to claim.)

Hell, in some future show/movie they could give it the Enterprise treatment & reveal the whole mess to just be in-universe fiction....

For Disco one might argue there is already a little bit of proof that it's an alternate timeline. In Lower Decks they had a phenomenon that played with the "multiverse" and transformed a common Bird of Prey into a Disco abomination of that ship for a slip second - allowing for the implication of that being an alternate reality instead of the "prime timeline".

Frankly I think shunting off bits of media we don't like into alternate dimensions or timelines is a bit churlish, it's not much different to people who say 2nd edition 40k is "not canon"

Lower decks does not state or imply that discovery is an alternate reality, it just implies that there is at least one alternate reality where Klingons also look like that, it doesn't mean every klingon that looks like that must be from another reality.

Star Trek is Star Trek. The bits you don't like are also Star Trek. Bad Star Trek is still Star Trek. Sometimes it contradicts itself, sometimes it makes no sense, sometimes it's dumb as hell, but we don't just shove the stuff we disagree with into an alternate reality because there are inconsistencies. Spot changes breeds throughout the run of TNG from long to short haired, does that mean everything before the change is from the "Spot is long haired" dimension?

Charax wrote:
Frankly I think shunting off bits of media we don't like into alternate dimensions or timelines is a bit churlish, it's not much different to people who say 2nd edition 40k is "not canon"

Lower decks does not state or imply that discovery is an alternate reality, it just implies that there is at least one alternate reality where Klingons also look like that, it doesn't mean every klingon that looks like that must be from another reality.

Star Trek is Star Trek. The bits you don't like are also Star Trek. Bad Star Trek is still Star Trek. Sometimes it contradicts itself, sometimes it makes no sense, sometimes it's dumb as hell, but we don't just shove the stuff we disagree with into an alternate reality because there are inconsistencies. Spot changes breeds throughout the run of TNG from long to short haired, does that mean everything before the change is from the "Spot is long haired" dimension?

Well, it's easier to ignore the changing outlook of a cat (or Trills, or even Ziyal for that matter), than a whole series with crappy writing from start to finish. Like, I can ignore Voyager's Threshold, because it's a single very stupid episode out of 174. But Disco is basically a whole series like Threshold. And accordingly has a much larger impact on the franchize. So, finding an excuse/explanation for that rubbish instead of just ignoring it is probably easier.

Ignoring the problem of comparing attitudes towards a decades old game edition with a currently running series, I would think that if looking at the overall fan base of either the number of people saying 2nd Edition isn't cannon is a far smaller percentage than the number of Star Trek viewers that have been disappointed with nu Trek. When selling a product you generally want to try and keep most of your customers on the "would buy" side more than on the "wtf are you doing" side if you want to continue making the product.

One can ignore their customers and complain they are churlish for not just being appreciative of what you offer, but that probably won't be as profitable.