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So you have 3 doom scythes positioned to use the amalgamated targeting Data.

Is there any reason i can't shoot all 3 doom scythes first (including their death rays and then use the stratagem?


For reference


AMALGAMATED TARGETING DATA
Necrons Stratagem
Synchronised targeting optics are fed to the Doom Scythe
squadron, and they release a devastating pinpoint barrage.
Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase if a
<DYNASTY> Doom Scythe from your army is within 6" of
2 other friendly <DYNASTY> Doom Scythes. The Doom
Scythes cannot fire their death rays this phase – instead, select a point on the battlefield within 24" of all three
vehicles that is visible to all of them. Roll a D6 for each
unit within 3" of that point. Add 1 to the result if the unit
being rolled for has 5 or more models, but subtract 1 if the
unit being rolled for is a CHARACTER. On a 4+, that unit
suffers 3D3 mortal wounds.

Yeah, the bit where it says they can’t fire their death rays this phase.

Andykp wrote:
Yeah, the bit where it says they can’t fire their death rays this phase.

He is trying to be clever and shoot them first then use the strategem. NO you can't do this. If you do, then you cannot use the strategem that phase. It's pretty clear that you cannot fire the death rays and use the strategem.

What are people like.

Oh dear.

I think this tops my recent shenanigans.

 skchsan wrote:
I think this tops my recent shenanigans.

no.

It is incredibly old shenanigans.

And it has never worked.

"cannot X this phase" is restriction to both after, and before. If you used the rule, you cannot later do X; If you did X, you cannot later use the rule.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
I think this tops my recent shenanigans.

no.

It is incredibly old shenanigans.

And it has never worked.

"cannot X this phase" is restriction to both after, and before. If you used the rule, you cannot later do X; If you did X, you cannot later use the rule.

I was referencing this https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/760570.page in terms of ridiculousness.

I had seen that ridiculousness.

These exact shenanigans have been around for several editions though, roughly once per year someone will come into YMDC and ask about using a rule that states cannot X this phase after having already X.

I was just pointing out that there is nothing new about it.

If someone could explain to me why. Saying no you can't because you can't is not a rule lol.

As i see it if i use the stratagem before firing my doom scythe Then most certainly i can no longer shoot my death rays.

But if i fire them first no where in the stratagem does it say "you can not use this stratagem if you fired your death rays"

You can most certainly chalk this up to poor writing.

Under the shooting rules you must declare ALL targets for the unit shooting before you roll any dice. What order you resolve them in doesn't matter, you still have to declare and make all those attacks at the same time.

So if one attack would invalidate/make impossible another it stands.

No, you can chalk it up to poor sportsmanship if you are trying to go that route. The rule is perfectly clear.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:
If someone could explain to me why. Saying no you can't because you can't is not a rule lol.

As i see it if i use the stratagem before firing my doom scythe Then most certainly i can no longer shoot my death rays.

But if i fire them first no where in the stratagem does it say "you can not use this stratagem if you fired your death rays"

You can most certainly chalk this up to poor writing.

"The Doom Scythes cannot fire their death rays this phase"

If you fire the death rays before trying to use the stratagem, you have still fired your death rays that phase. That means that you can't use the stratagem that phase because you can't fire your death rays AND use the stratagem in the same phase. If you fire the death rays you don't get to use the stratagem. If you use the stratagem you can't have fired or get to fire death rays that phase.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:
If someone could explain to me why. Saying no you can't because you can't is not a rule lol.

As i see it if i use the stratagem before firing my doom scythe Then most certainly i can no longer shoot my death rays.

But if i fire them first no where in the stratagem does it say "you can not use this stratagem if you fired your death rays"

You can most certainly chalk this up to poor writing.

Beacsue the stratagem is one of "do this instead of shooting" type stratagem.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:
If someone could explain to me why. Saying no you can't because you can't is not a rule lol.

As i see it if i use the stratagem before firing my doom scythe Then most certainly i can no longer shoot my death rays.

But if i fire them first no where in the stratagem does it say "you can not use this stratagem if you fired your death rays"

You can most certainly chalk this up to poor writing.

It's in the stratagem itself.

"The Doom Scythes cannot fire their death rays this phase – instead..."

That 'instead' is, "instead of firing their death rays this phase".

You cannot perform something instead of doing so, having already done so.

 skchsan wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:
If someone could explain to me why. Saying no you can't because you can't is not a rule lol.

As i see it if i use the stratagem before firing my doom scythe Then most certainly i can no longer shoot my death rays.

But if i fire them first no where in the stratagem does it say "you can not use this stratagem if you fired your death rays"

You can most certainly chalk this up to poor writing.

Beacsue the stratagem is one of "do this instead of shooting" type stratagem.

No.


Absolutely not.


This is a case of Cannot X, for Y this phase.

Whether before or after you Y; you cannot X in the same phase. X precludes the option of Y, and Y denies X.

You can X in other phases, if you have some ability to do so; but you cannot X and Y in the same phase.