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I was wondering just how powerful are the primarchs compared to a normal human being.


- physically and intelligence.


also how powerful is magnus as a phycer at the height of him being not demonic??

froper98 wrote:
I was wondering just how powerful are the primarchs compared to a normal human being.


- physically and intelligence.


also how powerful is magnus as a phycer at the height of him being not demonic??

Magnus was likely the third strongest mortal pysker at the time. Only the Big E and possible Malcador were stronger. As for how primarch compares to a normal human, how strong do you feel compared to an ant. That's about were they stand.

He was certainly the 3rd best human psyker. For example a Titan blasted him with a Pulsar and he made a shield able to withstand it IIRC.

Physically a Primarch can beat any normal human as well as the best martial artist ever can beat up a young child. Without the fancy wargear.

How powerful would you be compared to a demigod of around 12 feet in height that’s got Warp fused stuff going through their physiology?

A warhound titan weighs in at 410 tonnes as a bipedal walker it will spread it's weight across it's two feet.

Angron managed to hold up a Warhounds foot for a considerable period of time. The man is not a Psyker thus wasn't buffing himself with biomancy. nor is he reknowned as the strongest of the Primarchs. (that would be Vulkan) b ut he managed to hold up a foot. So with this as our guide a Primarch may be able to bench 200+ tonnes.

I thought the Titan squished him into the ground?

All primarch were psychic to a degree

It's very difficult to measure. The most accurate answer is probably "as powerful as the needs of the plot demand".

Slipspace wrote:
It's very difficult to measure. The most accurate answer is probably "as powerful as the needs of the plot demand".

Unfortunately, having listened to the audio books for the HH1-3, Flight of Eisenstein, and Fulgrim, this is very clearly the way it's goes.

When a primarch turns up I start to yawn as they're too powerful for most plots, which already contains superhuman soldiers. I wonder if due to their warp "stuff" they have something where if they believe they are powerful they are powerful. Like the theory about the Orks just believe that their technology works, so it does... when if a human built something similar it would fall apart.

TarkinLarson wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
It's very difficult to measure. The most accurate answer is probably "as powerful as the needs of the plot demand".

Unfortunately, having listened to the audio books for the HH1-3, Flight of Eisenstein, and Fulgrim, this is very clearly the way it's goes.

When a primarch turns up I start to yawn as they're too powerful for most plots, which already contains superhuman soldiers. I wonder if due to their warp "stuff" they have something where if they believe they are powerful they are powerful. Like the theory about the Orks just believe that their technology works, so it does... when if a human built something similar it would fall apart.

I wonder if that's something that all Space Marines have to a small extent. Space Wolves are constantly pulling off ridiculous stuff but a part of their training is the belief that they can do almost anything. On top of that if that belief power was what the Emperor got from Chaos then that would make sense as that's a big power.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Magnus was likely the third strongest mortal pysker at the time. Only the Big E and possible Malcador were stronger. As for how primarch compares to a normal human, how strong do you feel compared to an ant. That's about were they stand.

Magnus was stronger than Malcador. Sitting on the Golden Throne for a short period killed Malcador, and the Emperor had planned for Magnus to sit on it for decades. Malcador was no pushover, but Magnus' powers were said to rival even the Emperor's.

At the siege of the Imperial Palace Sanguinius dragged a Bloodthirster, KaBandha, into the air where he broke it's back across his knee. He was strong enough to grab it and take it into the air on his wings! So that's plenty strong. A mortal would choose to fight the thing with a Titan, if available.

Didn't the same Bloodthirster do exactly that to Sanguinius earlier?

All that proves is that even with a broken back Sanguinius can still perform feats of strength. Which goes back to the “if they believe it they can do it”

Positive Mental Attitude clearly has a place in the Imperium of Man.

There was of course the novel where Magnus invaded Fenris and ends up forgetting he’s a Primarch and gets beaten up only to remember later and squash everyone like a bug. Very odd.

we've all been focusing on physical and psyker abilities.... but what about intelligence?

I know the primarchs are said to be strategic geniuses. They're also (mostly) meant to be charming and commanding.

But because the books are written by human authors this intelligence is hard to show. How intelligent are the primarchs?

Mellow wrote:
All that proves is that even with a broken back Sanguinius can still perform feats of strength. Which goes back to the “if they believe it they can do it”

Positive Mental Attitude clearly has a place in the Imperium of Man.

There was of course the novel where Magnus invaded Fenris and ends up forgetting he’s a Primarch and gets beaten up only to remember later and squash everyone like a bug. Very odd.

It's almost like being in a place that massively drains your life force constantly weakens you....

TarkinLarson wrote:
But because the books are written by human authors this intelligence is hard to show. How intelligent are the primarchs?

Anyone of them would qualify as a genius beyond anything a normal human could manage. Even the ones who had grown up on primitive worlds like Russ were able to learn and assimilate information sufficiently quickly that they were ready to take command of their respective legions within months of first meeting the Emperor. Going from wielding pre-industrial weapons to commanding fleets of starships that make up the Crusader force in the time it would take a human to master the basics of a new language.

There is one short story in the HH novels where a UM officer is delivering a report to Guilliman and he appears to be reading several different things at once, faster than the Marine can read while still giving full attention to his report. I think each Primarch had a mind that was as superior to a human mind as their bodies were to human bodies. Of course some were smarter than others and some specialised in certain areas. Also it is hard to say what Angron could have been without the Nails.

froper98 wrote:
I was wondering just how powerful are the primarchs compared to a normal human being.


- physically and intelligence.


also how powerful is magnus as a phycer at the height of him being not demonic??

They've been known to be able to destroy mountains with a swing of their sword, however I think that is just folklore when it comes to Imperials. Kharn said the Emperor fighting was like listening to krak grenades going off when he struck something. Lorgar flung a piece of rubble big and strong enough to cave in a warhound cockpit, he also took a full blast from its plasma blastgun and he was one of the weakest Primarchs.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

froper98 wrote:
I was wondering just how powerful are the primarchs compared to a normal human being.


- physically and intelligence.


also how powerful is magnus as a phycer at the height of him being not demonic??

They've been known to be able to destroy mountains with a swing of their sword, however I think that is just folklore when it comes to Imperials. Kharn said the Emperor fighting was like listening to krak grenades going off when he struck something. Lorgar flung a piece of rubble big and strong enough to cave in a warhound cockpit, he also took a full blast from its plasma blastgun and he was one of the weakest Primarchs.

If you are referring to Betrayer, he was using psyker powers to achieve these feats, I don't think at that point you could still consider him the weakest Primarch.

Engrenages wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

froper98 wrote:
I was wondering just how powerful are the primarchs compared to a normal human being.


- physically and intelligence.


also how powerful is magnus as a phycer at the height of him being not demonic??

They've been known to be able to destroy mountains with a swing of their sword, however I think that is just folklore when it comes to Imperials. Kharn said the Emperor fighting was like listening to krak grenades going off when he struck something. Lorgar flung a piece of rubble big and strong enough to cave in a warhound cockpit, he also took a full blast from its plasma blastgun and he was one of the weakest Primarchs.

If you are referring to Betrayer, he was using psyker powers to achieve these feats, I don't think at that point you could still consider him the weakest Primarch.

Angron held up the foot of the warhound that tried to crush him, Angron had no psychic powers so even if Lorgar wasn't using psychic powers I think he could easily of crushed it. Loragar wasn't a daemon Primarch by then so still the weakest still is amongst the Daemon Primarchs.

I get they are powerful and in the books all marines are crazy powerful but what I don’t like is how tall they’ve got. Marines fluff wise are too tall now and primarchs are even bigger. It just looks a bit silly. Demon ones, yep. Make them as big as you like.

Andykp wrote:
I get they are powerful and in the books all marines are crazy powerful but what I don’t like is how tall they’ve got. Marines fluff wise are too tall now and primarchs are even bigger. It just looks a bit silly. Demon ones, yep. Make them as big as you like.

They were 10 foot in HH, they've always been 7' to 8, its only Primaris that are now 9', normal marines are still the same size. Them being really big isn't silly, being 7 foot is silly, thats the height of an 'average' basketball player, they are superhuman soldiers that can tear a light armoured tank apart with their hands, I've always thought they should be 9 or 10 foot or at least 8 and a half. What faction do you play out of curiosity?

I’ve been playing 40k for 30years so have played most. In 8th I have ORKS (my first and only constant army), primaris marines only marines, guard, admech with knights, necrons and am building a death guard army. So across the board. I’m not a marine hater, I live them but when you get to primarchs being new roboute size it is too far for my suspension of disbelief (even for 40k). I can’t imagine anyone that size interacting in the universe and it not looking silly to me. Imagine that model sitting at a table with normal humans. (The new plastic roboute is a lot taller than ten foot). I tend to disregard any mention of specific heights as inaccurate relocections. I just think marines are taller and bigger than humans and imposingly big. And primarchs a bit bigger. I picture it, and it was described well in Rynns works, that when a human meets a marine they are intimidated by the size of them like a child and grown up who is scary. In the rynns works book they meet the governor and council and the crimson fists intimidate one member so badly he pisses him self. Just with their size.

Now if I picture big roboute in the same scenario it just looks daft in my head.

Andykp wrote:
I’ve been playing 40k for 30years so have played most. In 8th I have ORKS (my first and only constant army), primaris marines only marines, guard, admech with knights, necrons and am building a death guard army. So across the board. I’m not a marine hater, I live them but when you get to primarchs being new roboute size it is too far for my suspension of disbelief (even for 40k). I can’t imagine anyone that size interacting in the universe and it not looking silly to me. Imagine that model sitting at a table with normal humans. (The new plastic roboute is a lot taller than ten foot). I tend to disregard any mention of specific heights as inaccurate relocections. I just think marines are taller and bigger than humans and imposingly big. And primarchs a bit bigger. I picture it, and it was described well in Rynns works, that when a human meets a marine they are intimidated by the size of them like a child and grown up who is scary. In the rynns works book they meet the governor and council and the crimson fists intimidate one member so badly he pisses him self. Just with their size.

Now if I picture big roboute in the same scenario it just looks daft in my head.

Orks, Primaris (Space Wolves), Guard, Knights and Death Guard as well. Also play WE's, Khorne Daemons, Nurgle Daemons, Custodes GK's, Sisters of Battle, Eldar, Tyranids, Necrons, That's cool then, just wanted to make sure your reason wasn't bias as I've had arguments about it before, especially Eldar players, they don't like the idea. Though normal marines are pretty much the same height as guard they are just more bulky, they needed to increase the size, however Guiliman is still much bigger.

Model wise I think primaris look right next to guard. I never had a problem with old marines, had like 4000 points dark angels but then primaris came out and you couldn’t look at old marines and not see the weird proportions so sold up and went all in. I forgot I’ve got demons and some custodes too. Lots of demons and not much custodes, like nine as an ally to my marines. I think roboute should have stood a bit taller than a primaris. But not twice the height.

Back on topic. Power in 40k is in two forms really. Game power, and fiction power. Game power we can see how good they are and it’s easily measurable. In the books it’s on a different scale. Like you said. Marines rip open tanks. Primarchs wrestler titans with their bare hands. One of the craziest bits I read was guiliman getting blasted into space at the battle of Calth, with no helmet on. And surviving with out any problems. (Take that princes leia!).

I think that theirs and marines exploits in the novels need to be taken with a punch of salt. On the table a primarch punching a Titan would go too well I think.

Demon primarchs on the other hand are powerful as heck. And should be any size they want. Can’t wait to see fulgrim and Angron, always wished they had done more with the other traitor primarchs as demons and what have u.

Andykp wrote:
Model wise I think primaris look right next to guard. I never had a problem with old marines, had like 4000 points dark angels but then primaris came out and you couldn’t look at old marines and not see the weird proportions so sold up and went all in. I forgot I’ve got demons and some custodes too. Lots of demons and not much custodes, like nine as an ally to my marines. I think roboute should have stood a bit taller than a primaris. But not twice the height.

Back on topic. Power in 40k is in two forms really. Game power, and fiction power. Game power we can see how good they are and it’s easily measurable. In the books it’s on a different scale. Like you said. Marines rip open tanks. Primarchs wrestler titans with their bare hands. One of the craziest bits I read was guiliman getting blasted into space at the battle of Calth, with no helmet on. And surviving with out any problems. (Take that princes leia!).

I think that theirs and marines exploits in the novels need to be taken with a punch of salt. On the table a primarch punching a Titan would go too well I think.

Demon primarchs on the other hand are powerful as heck. And should be any size they want. Can’t wait to see fulgrim and Angron, always wished they had done more with the other traitor primarchs as demons and what have u.

Fulgrim has the potential to be an amazing model.

w1zard wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Magnus was likely the third strongest mortal pysker at the time. Only the Big E and possible Malcador were stronger. As for how primarch compares to a normal human, how strong do you feel compared to an ant. That's about were they stand.

Magnus was stronger than Malcador. Sitting on the Golden Throne for a short period killed Malcador, and the Emperor had planned for Magnus to sit on it for decades. Malcador was no pushover, but Magnus' powers were said to rival even the Emperor's.

This debate has been had before. Magnus was never intended to man the throne with the entire weight of chaos trying to push its way in. It is not a valid comparison of power. We have seen Magnus struggle to hold a transport shuttle, whilst Malcador moved Titan. It's a debate that will never be settled until a gw writes a story that explicitly states which one was the superior.

Plus Malcador was a stronger psyker than Magnus. Faith and Fire states that the only psyker more powerful than Malcador was the Emperor himsel:

"Malcador had perished thousands of years ago and no man had ever dared to try and take up his title. It was written that the sigilite was one of the most powerful psykers in creation, second only to the mental might of the Emperor."

Also, its said again in Flight of the Eisenstein:

"He dared to raise his gaze. The Sigillite’s hooded glance came to rest upon him and although
Nathaniel could not see his eyes, he was immediately aware that he was under intense scrutiny, in
ways that he could only guess at. Malcador, so the stories said, was second only in psychic might to
the Emperor. So unassuming in aspect, but here in the chamber with them the man exuded a serene
kind of power, quite at odds with the brash energy of a warlord primarch, but no less potent."


Also the it took the Emperor all his might to hold back Chaos and Magnus' power wasn't near the strength of the Emperor, definitely not a rival.

Neither of those are what you'd call reliable sources. One is referencing stories and one is from the perspective of people 10'000 years after both subjects vanished.

I'd say there's definitely wiggle room until the inevitable GW novel where they spoil it.

pm713 wrote:
Neither of those are what you'd call reliable sources. One is referencing stories and one is from the perspective of people 10'000 years after both subjects vanished.

I'd say there's definitely wiggle room until the inevitable GW novel where they spoil it.

Well that's the only evidence there is, I've given it, so the burden of proof is now on you to prove it wrong.