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Seeing a lot of negative stuff about pistols, but not sure why when reading through the rules. I haven't yet played and may have missed something fundamental....

a few things.

1) pistols cannot be used in a turn when a unit charges, and they also cannot be used if you are charged.

2) nearly all pistols have 12" or less range, and therefore suffer a penalty outside of 6" range.

3) nearly all pistols are on melee-oriented troops with lots of their value in melee weaponry and stats.

So you take, let's say, a Harlequin, and you pay 2 extra points to give him a neuro disruptor.

That harlequin can charge 3D6". Or, he can move forward, and get within 6" to use his pistol.

That gives him a choice between 4 attacks, S3 Ap- D1 (if you didnt buy him any melee weapon at all) or one attack, S3 Ap-3 D3 damage.

-if you charge, your opponent hits you on 6s
-if you shoot, your opponent hits you on his ballistic skill
-if you charge, you get an additional two 3" moves to engage additional targets, secure objectives or get to cover
-if you shoot, you sit 6" away from the enemy lines and take your potshot

In order to use the pistol the way its generally intended, as a close combat weapon, both combatants need to live through at least two rounds of close combat AND no additional combatants must join in AND the target model must opt to not fall back.

The window of instances where a pistol is useful does exist, but it's so astronomically slim that there's almost no reason you'd ever want to spend points to buy one. Yet you have stuff like the Neuro pistol costing 2 points on a game with a 100pt budget.

Only good pistol is the inferno pistol because auto hitting.

Ah... I see. Yes I now understand the useless side of pistols! Balls. My main two killteam are likely to be harlequins and gsc.... pistols feature heavily.

the_scotsman wrote:

1) pistols cannot be used in a turn when a unit charges, and they also cannot be used if you are charged.

Yeah, this one seems like a problem.

GSC at least has flamer-pistols, which can be really, really useful. Harlequins, on the other hand, yeah we're probably SOL on that one.

In order to use the pistol the way its generally intended, as a close combat weapon, both combatants need to live through at least two rounds of close combat AND no additional combatants must join in AND the target model must opt to not fall back.

The window of instances where a pistol is useful does exist, but it's so astronomically slim that there's almost no reason you'd ever want to spend points to buy one. Yet you have stuff like the Neuro pistol costing 2 points on a game with a 100pt budget.

Funnily enough I've had enough situations where this actually occurred. But yet it still doesn't seem worthwhile to really buy anything better then what you'd normally come with.

Are pistols permitted to fire overwatch? I mean it's a 1/6 chance to hit but still...

 Weazel wrote:
Are pistols permitted to fire overwatch? I mean it's a 1/6 chance to hit but still...

Yes!

But they have the same restrictions as usual so you can only choose to fire it OR all your other weapons.

the_scotsman wrote:
a few things.

1) pistols cannot be used in a turn when a unit charges, and they also cannot be used if you are charged.

2) nearly all pistols have 12" or less range, and therefore suffer a penalty outside of 6" range.

3) nearly all pistols are on melee-oriented troops with lots of their value in melee weaponry and stats.

So you take, let's say, a Harlequin, and you pay 2 extra points to give him a neuro disruptor.

That harlequin can charge 3D6". Or, he can move forward, and get within 6" to use his pistol.

That gives him a choice between 4 attacks, S3 Ap- D1 (if you didnt buy him any melee weapon at all) or one attack, S3 Ap-3 D3 damage.

-if you charge, your opponent hits you on 6s
-if you shoot, your opponent hits you on his ballistic skill
-if you charge, you get an additional two 3" moves to engage additional targets, secure objectives or get to cover
-if you shoot, you sit 6" away from the enemy lines and take your potshot

In order to use the pistol the way its generally intended, as a close combat weapon, both combatants need to live through at least two rounds of close combat AND no additional combatants must join in AND the target model must opt to not fall back.

The window of instances where a pistol is useful does exist, but it's so astronomically slim that there's almost no reason you'd ever want to spend points to buy one. Yet you have stuff like the Neuro pistol costing 2 points on a game with a 100pt budget.

Thats some top tier rules writing right there!

Yeah pistols seem pretty pointless for the most part. It's annoying too when the choice between something useless and something adequate is like 1 point. When auto pistols and bolt pistols are worth the same I'm left a bit baffled, but that's a problem with a lot of the wargear/weapons costs.


I feel like they really missed the boat with the point costs. There are too many auto takes because there's not enough gradient to cost. The other thing I'm struggling with is, it's all well and fine to have characterful specialists that I can identify easily by eye, the problem is not being able to tell my baseline troops apart (6 have identical kit and an autogun).

the_scotsman wrote:
a few things.

1) pistols cannot be used in a turn when a unit charges, and they also cannot be used if you are charged.

Perhaps I'm missing it somewhere, but I don't see that anywhere in the rules. Pistol rules are:

"You can choose to shoot with a model with a Pistol weapon even if there are enemy models within 1", but it must target the closest enemy model (you can choose which if two or more are equidistant) and can only shoot with its Pistol weapon(s). In such circumstances, the model can shoot its Pistol even if other friendly models are within 1" of the same enemy model. It cannot fire a Pistol if it was charged in this battle round."

The underlined part is the only place I see any mention of chargers and firing pistols in the rules. It is saying that you can't fire a pistol if you are the one being charged, not if you are the one doing the charging. As far as I can tell, my Sybarite with Blast Pistol and Power Sword can charge in the movement phase, shoot his blast pistol in the Shooting phase, and then swing in the Assault Phase. Am I missing something here?

I don’t think there is any ranged weapon that can shoot when a model charges.

Yes true. If charging you can't shoot a ranged weapon!

Ah, my mistake. Found it on page 28:

"1. Choose Model to Shoot With
When it is your turn, choose a model from your kill team to shoot with. You may not choose a model that has made a charge attempt, Advanced, Fallen Back (unless it can Fly) or Retreated this battle round, or a model that is within 1" of an enemy model"

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Only good pistol is the inferno pistol because auto hitting.

I raise you the Warpflame Pistol which has -2 AP and autohits.

Hopefully GW FAQs this. The change on how pistols work in 8th was one I enjoyed.

Pistols work same in 8th. What happened pistol rules stayed same but turn order changed so move shoot charge is no longer there

People seem to barely remember to shoot their pistols in melee in 8th edition games... I don’t think it’s a big deal TBH.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Only good pistol is the inferno pistol because auto hitting.

I raise you the Warpflame Pistol which has -2 AP and autohits.

Doesnt it also cost quite a hefty sum?

 vaklor4 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Only good pistol is the inferno pistol because auto hitting.

I raise you the Warpflame Pistol which has -2 AP and autohits.

Doesnt it also cost quite a hefty sum?

still solidly better than the sorceror's damage output in melee, so I would go for it personally.

All that said, is Kill Team more Melee friendly than shooting friendly? I haven't had a chance to play yet (just got married and have a two and a half year old stepson... love my wife and son to death, but I don't have as much time as I used to... as expected).

SG

 vaklor4 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Only good pistol is the inferno pistol because auto hitting.

I raise you the Warpflame Pistol which has -2 AP and autohits.

Doesnt it also cost quite a hefty sum?

It does in the codex, but in KT it's only 1 point, which is a lot better on an Aspiring Sorcerer than the codex option.

 ServiceGames wrote:
All that said, is Kill Team more Melee friendly than shooting friendly? I haven't had a chance to play yet (just got married and have a two and a half year old stepson... love my wife and son to death, but I don't have as much time as I used to... as expected).

SG

Kill Team seems to work fine with everything except the combination of both A) Elite, and B) ALL shooting ZERO melee.

Those teams are very easy for most melee teams to either rush and kill (if they're elite teams like harlequins) or rush and stunlock (if they're horde teams like orks).

WIth a small concession to melee, like say 2 Flayed ones in a Necron team, you can use dedicated charge-tanks and keep your shooters shooting long enough to win.

That said you can get creative with that as well. Tau teams will be relying on Drones and Stealth suits with Fly to tank, fall back and keep shooting, and I saw one game where an all-skitarii team really turned it around against orks by popping their +1S canticle and using the "add 2 to hit rolls in combat" tactic on their squad leader to cause 3 OOAs and end the game with the orks breaking, that was pretty impressive.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Only good pistol is the inferno pistol because auto hitting.

I raise you the Warpflame Pistol which has -2 AP and autohits.

Doesnt it also cost quite a hefty sum?

It does in the codex, but in KT it's only 1 point, which is a lot better on an Aspiring Sorcerer than the codex option.

That almost seems too strong at that point, considering how powerful ignoring negative modifers is in kill team.

It also only has a 6" range, at str:3.

 Mmmpi wrote:
It also only has a 6" range, at str:3.

It still deals d6 shots at -2 AP. Although against marines it wont do much, I can see it screwing up some of the cheaper options in a single turn.

Especially since KT lets you spread hits out to other models in close range.

Heck, my Warpflamer Rubric is a Demolitions expert just because it makes the flamer even better when using it to nail stuff in cover.

Counterpoint: How do the melee guys kill flamer armed troops WITHOUT their pistol?

Slowroll wrote:
Counterpoint: How do the melee guys kill flamer armed troops WITHOUT their pistol?

That is simple you charge them from out of range. After all I have 3d6 to charge range.