GW profits Double

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**Davor**

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-45019803

Saw this on my FLGS Facebook page. Good going GW. Give people what they want, and engage the community does wonders.

**EnTyme**

In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.

Source (BoLS): http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/07/tabletop-industry-the-top-5-games-of-2018-are.html

**Justyn**

I like how the article says its due to the weak Pound. GW forces retailers to use their exchange rates so that isn't really a factor.

**judgedoug**

EnTyme wrote:
In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.

Source (BoLS): http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/07/tabletop-industry-the-top-5-games-of-2018-are.html

And, don't forget, the caveat for ICV2 is that it is done of informal polling of game stores only, and does not account for hard numbers (or sales from webstore-only shops, etc)

**Galas**

Justyn wrote:
I like how the article says its due to the weak Pound. GW forces retailers to use their exchange rates so that isn't really a factor.

I can say that since the Brexit vote I have bought a ton of products from Element Games in UK, because the exchange rate form Pounds-Euro is sweet.

**Bossk_Hogg**

Wow, stunned that Nolzur's Marvelous Minis is the #2 seller! I would have figured Reaper Bones would eclipse them easily.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

judgedoug wrote:
EnTyme wrote:
In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.

Source (BoLS): http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/07/tabletop-industry-the-top-5-games-of-2018-are.html

And, don't forget, the caveat for ICV2 is that it is done of informal polling of game stores only, and does not account for hard numbers (or sales from webstore-only shops, etc)

but if you compare ICV2 to ICV2 it does give you a reasonable idea of which way the sales in the market are going

**EnTyme**

It seems Nolzur's is in the top 5 every year, and yet I'm not even sure what it is. The only time I see it mentioned is the the ICv2 ranking. I don't ever see it discussed of the blogs I frequent. I've always assumed it referred to the minis people use in D&D.

**dreadblade**

GW profits double and WH40K is the top selling miniature game

Apparently 8th edition is all broken though

**Blastaar**

Brother Castor wrote:
GW profits double and WH40K is the top selling miniature game

Apparently 8th edition is all broken though

Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.

**Galas**

Blastaar wrote:
Brother Castor wrote:
GW profits double and WH40K is the top selling miniature game

Apparently 8th edition is all broken though

Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.

Smoke and mirrors, beaten-up wife, stockholm syndrome, don't-know-better. I'm doing it right?

**Blastaar**

Galas wrote:
Blastaar wrote:
Brother Castor wrote:
GW profits double and WH40K is the top selling miniature game

Apparently 8th edition is all broken though

Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.

Smoke and mirrors, beaten-up wife, stockholm syndrome, don't-know-better. I'm doing it right?

That isn't quite what I was saying. Numbers don't lie, GW's profits are up substantially. While I disagree rather strongly about the nature and quality of the changes, it can't be denied that for most players, the negatives of 8th and AOS's rulesets, prices, or even Necromunda/KT's drip-feed the rules approach, do not outweigh other aspects. When it comes down to it, most people would rather buy those shiny new minis than do without, even those that spend a large amount of time grumbling about the games.

**LunarSol**

Brother Castor wrote:

Apparently 8th edition is all broken though

I've found the 40k community to have perhaps the most unrealistic expectations of a balanced game I've come across. Not that 40k is great, but 8th is way closer to what I've found to be considered "good" elsewhere than you'd be lead to believe. I understand the historical reasons for this, but it really feels like more often than not the community is too busy trying to fix the game to notice whether or not its actually working.

**Monkeysloth**

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Wow, stunned that Nolzur's Marvelous Minis is the #2 seller! I would have figured Reaper Bones would eclipse them easily.

Not really, the large volume Bones purchases are always KSers and Nolzur's are cheapish official D&D minis so it's not surprising they outsell bones just from the branding alone.

**Justyn**

I can say that since the Brexit vote I have bought a ton of products from Element Games in UK, because the exchange rate form Pounds-Euro is sweet.

But many places that would take advantage of the weak Pound to purchase Games Workshop cannot due to GWs policies. Personally I would have bought far more if I could have.

**ced1106**

> GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following

That's too easy to say.

Frex, I'm on BGG and GW has released several boardgames that are popular there, such as Warhammer Quest, and Shadespire. GW has long been a well-known brand, but that doesn't mean it's fully tapped out its potential audience. They've also released various Play Now (?) kits for the miniature wargamer markets that are supposedly more accessible than previous sets.

If you continue to dismiss GW's customers as "fanbois", you won't understand why they've increased their profits.

**Da Boss**

Well, they started making stuff people wanted to buy again. Well done, GW.

Surprised to see D&D minis as the second best selling line. I have bought a whole bunch of them, but this being a US survey I would have assumed Bones would have had more of an entrenched base. I cannot get Bones easily in Europe so I tend to go for D&D minis instead, even though the range is less extensive.

**Bossk_Hogg**

EnTyme wrote:
It seems Nolzur's is in the top 5 every year, and yet I'm not even sure what it is. The only time I see it mentioned is the the ICv2 ranking. I don't ever see it discussed of the blogs I frequent. I've always assumed it referred to the minis people use in D&D.

They're basically just better Bones, that are pre-primed. They have the advantage of the Dungeons and Dragons brand and can use their IP protected monsters, but weirdly they still don't have a dragon mini.

**Chopstick**

Err, I hope the profit would make GW invest more on plastic production for specialist games. ( probably not)

**LunarSol**

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
EnTyme wrote:
It seems Nolzur's is in the top 5 every year, and yet I'm not even sure what it is. The only time I see it mentioned is the the ICv2 ranking. I don't ever see it discussed of the blogs I frequent. I've always assumed it referred to the minis people use in D&D.

They're basically just better Bones, that are pre-primed. They have the advantage of the Dungeons and Dragons brand and can use their IP protected monsters, but weirdly they still don't have a dragon mini.

The DnD stuff kind of slips right into stores alongside their Magic orders and yeah, they're nicer models. I've not seen much in the realm of Bones since that launched.

**Da Boss**

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
EnTyme wrote:
It seems Nolzur's is in the top 5 every year, and yet I'm not even sure what it is. The only time I see it mentioned is the the ICv2 ranking. I don't ever see it discussed of the blogs I frequent. I've always assumed it referred to the minis people use in D&D.

They're basically just better Bones, that are pre-primed. They have the advantage of the Dungeons and Dragons brand and can use their IP protected monsters, but weirdly they still don't have a dragon mini.

I have seen a silver dragon mini from them. The pre-priming is kinda cruddy though, I have had my paint flake off with that primer. I usually give them another coat of GW primer.

**kodos**

Galas wrote:
Blastaar wrote:
Brother Castor wrote:
GW profits double and WH40K is the top selling miniature game

Apparently 8th edition is all broken though

Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.

Smoke and mirrors, beaten-up wife, stockholm syndrome, don't-know-better. I'm doing it right?

It would be not the first time in history the the better product did not sold best, and it will not be the last time

But I already can see Kirby exploding because even a half decent set of rules doubles the profit over his "we are a miniature company and don't need good rules"

**richred_uk**

Chopstick wrote:
Err, I hope the profit would make GW invest more on plastic production for specialist games. ( probably not)

Not specified as Specialist Games, but from the Annual Report:

Capacity
Manufacturing
We have accelerated our investment in manufacturing capacity during the year as well as improved our logistics and distribution
service levels. These will, alongside our investment in people and technology, lay the foundation for future volume growth. In the
year we purchased two acres of land at the cost of £1.7 million next to our HQ in Nottingham and later this year will have
redeveloped this site to increase our manufacturing capacity as well as improve our R&D capabilities. The total capital cost of
this new facility including the purchase of the land will be approximately £9 million.
Our manufacturing investment included doubling the number of plastic injection moulding machines as well as flexing up our
average production staffing levels from 143 to 198 at our HQ site in Nottingham. Production payroll costs have increased by
£2.0 million to £5.9 million; as a percentage of Group revenue they have increased from 2.5% to 2.7%.

https://s19485.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/2017-18-Press-statement-final-v.pdf

Double the number of injection moulders, 1/3 increase in production staff and buying/ building quite a big new facility - should be some capacity to get more Specialist stuff out along with the core ranges

**Hulksmash**

Nice. As for plastic specialist games have they released a specialist game that wasnt primarily plastic? Necro, bloodbowl, and now AT have all been released primarily in plastic.

**silent25**

*edit* Ninjaed

Also of note on prices:

). We continue to offer a broad range of price points and we have maintained our policy of aiming to only increase the prices of our new releases to reflect the necessary investment in our product quality. The annual impact of this increase on our UK RRP price list is an average increase of 3%.

Shocked that X-Wing is off the ICV2 chart. Interest in Legion has died in my area, so don't know how much that has left in the tank.

**An Actual Englishman**

I suspect much of this profit is largely on the back of the influx of new players from 8th edition and AOS 2.0.

As to GW giving people what they want? Kinda. They've given some people what they want. They've promised a lot and so far haven't delivered on all of it. The promise to deliver "all major codexes within a year of 8th release" has fallen by the wayside. It will only take a few more broken promises to see a negative shift in perception and that will hurt their bottom line.

I'm interested to know how much of their profit is due to mobile, console and PC gaming too.

**LunarSol**

kodos wrote:

But I already can see Kirby exploding because even a half decent set of rules doubles the profit over his "we are a miniature company and don't need good rules"

I think Kirby knew exactly what he was doing and is quite happy with all the money he made not investing in the company.

**lord_blackfang**

Galas wrote:
Smoke and mirrors, beaten-up wife, stockholm syndrome, don't-know-better. I'm doing it right?

Exactly. People have gak taste and gak judgement in general. If the unwashed masses cared as much for science as they do for watching junkies chase a ball up and down a grass field, we'd be on Alpha Centauri by now. Liking bad wargames is hardly surprising, but at least it's not dooming us to extinction in the grand scheme of things.

**Gimgamgoo**

Galas wrote:
Blastaar wrote:
Brother Castor wrote:
GW profits double and WH40K is the top selling miniature game

Apparently 8th edition is all broken though

Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.

Smoke and mirrors, beaten-up wife, stockholm syndrome, don't-know-better. I'm doing it right?

You missed Sunken Cost Fallacy. Probably the biggest reason a lot of GW customers are too scared to branch out and try other games.

Good on GW for resurrecting themselves, and the clear improvements on 8th over 7th edition 40k. My worry is what they're going to do next to keep those profits going.
Necromunda, Blood Bowl and Adeptus Titanicus are all returned or returning. They've brought back Primarchs and re-made larger, bigger and better Space Marines.

What's left...? A full return for Sisters and Squats and a remake of Mordheim. What then? Will we see something original, or by then will they be onto AoS3 and 40k v9?

I'd hate to see them branching too much into CCGs and seeing the great looking gaming tables in the GW stores slowly turning into card tables.

Oh and there was this...
http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/amp/news/201914

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Da Boss wrote:
Well, they started making stuff people wanted to buy again. Well done, GW.

Surprised to see D&D minis as the second best selling line. I have bought a whole bunch of them, but this being a US survey I would have assumed Bones would have had more of an entrenched base. I cannot get Bones easily in Europe so I tend to go for D&D minis instead, even though the range is less extensive.

I think it just goes to show how important being an 'official' product is, and possibly how much stuff is sold to people not involved in the hobby

Little Jimmy plays D&D and his family and friends know that , they may well know he paints those little toy soldiers too, but most of them will never connect reaper bones with D&D so unless he specifically asks for them they don't get bought, but official D&D minis, they're a gift idea they may think of themselves or have suggested to them

Automatically Appended Next Post:

silent25 wrote:

Shocked that X-Wing is off the ICV2 chart. Interest in Legion has died in my area, so don't know how much that has left in the tank.

I'm guessing that's because with the edition change there just hasn't been much (new) product around for people to buy

I'm really pretty surprised Warmachine is holding on at No3, despite the clear problems of the MK3 launch, pressgager and forum removals etc, I guess this may well mean it's stabilized, and shows quite how far AoS still has to climb