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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

They are already bringing back BFG, although rumors say it will be limited to the Horus Heresy setting for now.

Keep in mind that info is from back when they were just barely testing the waters for SG and the plans for Titanicus were a single plastic titan. BFG could be much bigger than originally planned, now.

Come on, more Warhammer Quest!

Clockpunk wrote:
Come on, more Warhammer Quest!

This.

Why they haven't done a version where your warrior can level up and fight all manner of creatures is beyond me. They should have started with a more generalised version, with a few new creepy crawlies included in the starter set, which has rules for all models currently available (encouraging people to buy them!).

I have no issue with lots of themed releases, afterward, with new adventurers and new models. I mean, these expansion versions could coincide with the release schedules of the armies such as the Nighthaunt, for example. Add a few exclusive Nighthaunt models to the game to tempt those who are collecting Nighthaunt armies and not even interested in Warhammer Quest and you are on to a winner.

Rules are in WD for Nighthaunt

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

They are already bringing back BFG, although rumors say it will be limited to the Horus Heresy setting for now.

Keep in mind that info is from back when they were just barely testing the waters for SG and the plans for Titanicus were a single plastic titan. BFG could be much bigger than originally planned, now.

BFG is planned for 2nd half of next year, not release but pre planning and design, it’s a long way off, but I’m patient.

I think the irony is that the land they bought was land they sold a decade ago because they were not using it.

Larger production facilities is a bit of a no brainer and hopefully includes a modern machine as given what there guys manage to produce now, I am curious what they could do with the machines that the chinise company that makes Malifaux and KD act use.

The slump in the pound was a nice bonus for them as it means an extra 10-15% on every sale outside UK and a boost in UK sales with people from the EU buying stuff cheap.

8th still sucks but at least it is profitable.
AoS still sucks and is still a black hole in there finances.

FW seem to have got screwed and I doubt will still be around by next financials in any recogniseable form.

ced1106 wrote:
> GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following

That's too easy to say.

Frex, I'm on BGG and GW has released several boardgames that are popular there, such as Warhammer Quest, and Shadespire. GW has long been a well-known brand, but that doesn't mean it's fully tapped out its potential audience. They've also released various Play Now (?) kits for the miniature wargamer markets that are supposedly more accessible than previous sets.

If you continue to dismiss GW's customers as "fanbois", you won't understand why they've increased their profits.

I don't think it comes down to fanboyism entirely. Wargaming is a very expensive and time consuming hobby and 95% of non-historical wargamers likely started with Games Workshop products. As a result, getting people into alternative games is very, very, very difficult. What compounds this further is the need to have an active, long-term community also committed to those games. 40k will always have players, it will always be the 'safe' option, especially in the UK. Therefore if all your friends are playing 40k and there's barely anybody else touching the other games, people are going to stick with GW products. Good luck finding anything else beyond maybe Flames of War and Guild Ball in the most of the UK these days.

7th was was still pulling in a profit, just nowhere near what they are now. I suspect despite the almost universally agreed bin fire it was, the above played into that a great deal.

SeanDrake wrote:
I think the irony is that the land they bought was land they sold a decade ago because they were not using it.

Larger production facilities is a bit of a no brainer and hopefully includes a modern machine as given what there guys manage to produce now, I am curious what they could do with the machines that the chinise company that makes Malifaux and KD act use.

The slump in the pound was a nice bonus for them as it means an extra 10-15% on every sale outside UK and a boost in UK sales with people from the EU buying stuff cheap.

8th still sucks but at least it is profitable.
AoS still sucks and is still a black hole in there finances.

FW seem to have got screwed and I doubt will still be around by next financials in any recogniseable form.

There's so much wrong with this statement, I'm not even sure where to start ripping it apart..

Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.

Seems the obvious opening?

As far as I can tell their annual report doesn't break things down into sales per range and simply presents the total sales for the whole company and the overall view is almost totally positive - increases of sales everywhere; huge investment in additional manufacturing capacity to meet increased demand and to allow increased product development; increases in FW sales; changes to their stock organisation and warehousing to increase the efficiency of their stock flow etc...

Nothing in there to suggest that AoS is a failing issue; nor even that its of any concern at all. Certainly not a "black hole of finances". I agree Sigmar still has a way to go; it still needs some range areas cleaned up and it honestly needs what 40K just had (and is still having) which is to have prime focus for a year or so to get all the factions Battletomed up to standard (which I would not expect to see happen properly until after we've got Orks, Cultists and Space Wolves out of the way).

And nothing to suggest that FW is going away; though yes its clear that FW is going to change.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
I think the irony is that the land they bought was land they sold a decade ago because they were not using it.

Larger production facilities is a bit of a no brainer and hopefully includes a modern machine as given what there guys manage to produce now, I am curious what they could do with the machines that the chinise company that makes Malifaux and KD act use.

The slump in the pound was a nice bonus for them as it means an extra 10-15% on every sale outside UK and a boost in UK sales with people from the EU buying stuff cheap.

8th still sucks but at least it is profitable.
AoS still sucks and is still a black hole in there finances.

FW seem to have got screwed and I doubt will still be around by next financials in any recogniseable form.

There's so much wrong with this statement, I'm not even sure where to start ripping it apart..

SeanDrake is basically the Alex Jones of GW fandom. It's his schtick to make things up and then keep repeating them until he believes them himself.

SeanDrake wrote:
AoS still sucks and is still a black hole in there finances.

I highly doubt this. As in, I think it's a totally ridiculous claim. I don't think you get the kind of growth in profit GW has with one of your brands being so bad it can be described as "a black hole in their finances." I think both Idoneth Deepkin and Daughters of Khaine were massive successes for them. If I am going to be wrong about my prediction of only moderate growth in the half year report, it will be because AoS 2nd edition and Malign Sorcery sold better than I think it did. I think it sold well, but it's possible sales were even higher.

The other thing to ask yourself is if you believe that GW's social media, youtube and warhammer community approach works. Has it contributed to the growth of their sales? If the answer is yes, then why would not that same marketing strategy work for Age of Sigmar as it has for 40k? Why assume AoS is somehow still losing money (and badly) if the whole customer facing marketing aparatus of GW is so obviously successful?

I think the greatest evidence that Age of Sigmar is doing well for GW is the increase in sales that are new releases. During this period there were some pretty amazing 40k releases, but also Kharadron Overlords, Idoneth Deepkin, Maggotkin of Nurgle and Daughters of Khaine. It would be truly strange (if not impossible) for their overall sales of new releases to go up with so much of their new products being Age of Sigmar if AoS was a "a black hole in their finances." This becomes even more impossible when you also consider their return on capital going up so much. Just how do they maintain a higher return on capital when new releases are selling more than last year and so much of the year was AoS releases? The AoS kits have the same capital costs (design, tooling, production) as an equivalent 40k kit, so if they truly were doing badly, that would devastate their return on capital.

Sales of new releases were up. Much of the new product was AoS. Return on capital is way, way up. So at the very least your claim is highly suspect. Likely, it's totally backwards and AoS might be a shining light in their finances compared to previous years. We will have to wait till next report to see how 2nd edition AoS shakes out though.

FW seem to have got screwed and I doubt will still be around by next financials in any recogniseable form.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.

Seems the obvious opening?

Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.

Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.

EDIT- see the post above mine for how his post should have dissected.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.

Seems the obvious opening?

Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.

Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

The burden of proof is on the one making a claim, not the one refuting it.

My refutation is simple though: AoS being a black hole in their finances is incompatible with what we know about the sale of new releases, the effectiveness of their internet marketing and the massive growth on their return on capital given the sheer number of AoS releases during the year this report is for.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.

Seems the obvious opening?

Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.

Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.

I don’t think you understand how debate works.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.

Seems the obvious opening?

Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.

Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.

I don’t think you understand how debate works.

That is how it works- ever heard of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" AKA the burden of proof lies with the accuser.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.

Seems the obvious opening?

Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.

Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.

I don’t think you understand how debate works.

That is how it works- ever heard of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" AKA the burden of proof lies with the accuser.

No, I agree. You don't seem to understand this. The accusation is "AoS is a black hole in GW's finances". That is what needs to be proven. Disagreeing with said accusation does not shift the burden of proof to the naysayer.

 Grimtuff wrote:
That is how it works- ever heard of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" AKA the burden of proof lies with the accuser.

That is a protection under the law to reduce the number of innocent people who might otherwise go to jail.

Ideas and claims don't have such protections.

Do you really think you should be able to claim anything, provide no evidence and then expect people to accept it if they can't disprove it?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.

Seems the obvious opening?

Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.

Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.

EDIT- see the post above mine for how his post should have dissected.

Uh, no, that certainly isn't how debate works... if you make a strong claim unsupported by evidence there is no need to prove that it's wrong. The statement can simply be dismissed.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.

Seems the obvious opening?

Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.

Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.

I don’t think you understand how debate works.

That is how it works- ever heard of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" AKA the burden of proof lies with the accuser.

Yeah ... like I said

SeanDrake wrote:
I think the irony is that the land they bought was land they sold a decade ago because they were not using it.

Larger production facilities is a bit of a no brainer and hopefully includes a modern machine as given what there guys manage to produce now, I am curious what they could do with the machines that the chinise company that makes Malifaux and KD act use.

The slump in the pound was a nice bonus for them as it means an extra 10-15% on every sale outside UK and a boost in UK sales with people from the EU buying stuff cheap.

8th still sucks but at least it is profitable.
AoS still sucks and is still a black hole in there finances.

FW seem to have got screwed and I doubt will still be around by next financials in any recogniseable form.

Personally I think both 8th Edition and AoS are great, light years better than their older editions, especially in the AoS area (WFB was atrociously boring). FW seems to be doing fine from what I understand, so these statements strike me as off the cuff and not based on any solid data...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I suspect much of this profit is largely on the back of the influx of new players from 8th edition and AOS 2.0.

As to GW giving people what they want? Kinda. They've given some people what they want. They've promised a lot and so far haven't delivered on all of it. The promise to deliver "all major codexes within a year of 8th release" has fallen by the wayside. It will only take a few more broken promises to see a negative shift in perception and that will hurt their bottom line.

I'm interested to know how much of their profit is due to mobile, console and PC gaming too.

Again, what are you talking about? There are very few codexes left to release and still 6 months of release time. We've seen an update to KT, we've seen loads of new models, new games, new armies. Terrain kits for both systems.

 frozenwastes wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
That is how it works- ever heard of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" AKA the burden of proof lies with the accuser.

That is a protection under the law to reduce the number of innocent people who might otherwise go to jail.

Ideas and claims don't have such protections.

Do you really think you should be able to claim anything, provide no evidence and then expect people to accept it if they can't disprove it?

Is it wrong of me that the first thing I did when I read that post was check to see if the guy making it was American? :/

BrianDavion wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
That is how it works- ever heard of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" AKA the burden of proof lies with the accuser.

That is a protection under the law to reduce the number of innocent people who might otherwise go to jail.

Ideas and claims don't have such protections.

Do you really think you should be able to claim anything, provide no evidence and then expect people to accept it if they can't disprove it?

Is it wrong of me that the first thing I did when I read that post was check to see if the guy making it was American? :/

Nah, my first thought was "Please don't have a US flag"......

BrianDavion wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
That is how it works- ever heard of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" AKA the burden of proof lies with the accuser.

That is a protection under the law to reduce the number of innocent people who might otherwise go to jail.

Ideas and claims don't have such protections.

Do you really think you should be able to claim anything, provide no evidence and then expect people to accept it if they can't disprove it?

Is it wrong of me that the first thing I did when I read that post was check to see if the guy making it was American? :/

Yes.

Yes it was.