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Fortunately my nerd-herd are a pristine bunch of rightfully smug liberal elites, regardless of age, identity and wotnot

Well thats not true either but in this post thought era it is at least a fluffier delusion than the OP's lazy wargaming tropes 101

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:

Karol wrote:
The difference today, comparing to the past, was that two people who are fans of enemy teams could play a game of w40k against each other, and not politics were coming up durning the game. Right now the possible reaction to playing someone you disagree with, is to hit them with a padlock. And what is worse, people expect to be called heros for doing that.

What!?
Where do you play 40k games that turn into beat downs with padlocks?

Yeah, Stegadons in socks are the preffered weapon of choice...

Where do you get socks small enough to fit a Stegadon?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:


I hope you guys find un-altered versions of the classic Star Wars trilogy and your dog chews it up.

The dog you love.

So you can't even be really mad at him about it.

Take that.

I'm actually crying.

I have my De-specialized versions safely tucked away... from the dog. from the kids...

I think that niche hobbies tend to attract niche personalities. Rock climbing seems cool, because it's dangerous and athletic and outdoors, but everybody I've met that does it is a pretty weird person.

Basically, if you're moving past very general hobbies (pick up athletics, watching sports, TV, movies, pop music) you just get odder.

Gaming sort of gets it the worst, because most gamers were, or still are, people for whom social inclusion isn't taken for granted. We want to be inclusive, both to help the hobby grow, and also because we all feel bad about being excluded in the past. The problem is, that feeds some really bad actors. There's a great piece of this: http://plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

If I were to play armchair psychiatrist, I would guess that of the three most common geek gaming hobbies (RPGs, minis, and CCGs), CCGs are the most mainstream, so aberrant behavior gets snuffed out. RPGs are super low cost and built around intimate groups, so they can carefully select who they play with, while also grabbing many of the most quite/passive folks. Tabletop requires more money, and also requires playing strangers for a long session. It's a great outlet for the frustrated wanna be alpha to be vent their rage onto people.

 Polonius wrote:
I think that niche hobbies tend to attract niche personalities. Rock climbing seems cool, because it's dangerous and athletic and outdoors, but everybody I've met that does it is a pretty weird person.

Basically, if you're moving past very general hobbies (pick up athletics, watching sports, TV, movies, pop music) you just get odder.

Gaming sort of gets it the worst, because most gamers were, or still are, people for whom social inclusion isn't taken for granted. We want to be inclusive, both to help the hobby grow, and also because we all feel bad about being excluded in the past. The problem is, that feeds some really bad actors. There's a great piece of this: http://plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

If I were to play armchair psychiatrist, I would guess that of the three most common geek gaming hobbies (RPGs, minis, and CCGs), CCGs are the most mainstream, so aberrant behavior gets snuffed out. RPGs are super low cost and built around intimate groups, so they can carefully select who they play with, while also grabbing many of the most quite/passive folks. Tabletop requires more money, and also requires playing strangers for a long session. It's a great outlet for the frustrated wanna be alpha to be vent their rage onto people.

Generally when I see really bad behavior its defensive in nature. Either an alpha of a small pack afraid of a challenger or collections of people that see themselves as outsiders afraid that newcomers will reject them from the group they established.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Fortunately my nerd-herd are a pristine bunch of rightfully smug liberal elites, regardless of age, identity and wotnot

Well thats not true either but in this post thought era it is at least a fluffier delusion than the OP's lazy wargaming tropes 101

While I didn't particularly want to challenge him outright as being a 'liar', I did seem to wonder if things were omitted or misconstrued. I was, in all honestly, almost expecting to see something about MAGA hats and southern accents.

And then the whole FLGS clapped.

But I won't call the OP a liar, because in truth I've seen my share of trashy people from all ends of the political and ideological spectrums. Everyone is on a dial, man- no matter what you're on, you've got a dial. Most people are tuned toward 'moderate', 'reasonable', or even 'passionate'... but there's just enough people dialed all the way towards "ABSOLUTELY F***ING STUPID" in every single movement, belief system, political group, etc. In truth, I genuinely believe we cheapen discussions by simply assuming that people who are supporters/members/believers of [INSERT THING] are just like the guy dialed to "ABSOLUTELY F***ING STUPID".

Because they're not, in fact- the overwhelming majority aren't even close to being that insane. But as we all know, every village has its idiot- and he's loud and hard to miss, so he tends to be the first one that sticks out in your mind when you think about the village.

But hey, who needs to bother judging people based on their actions, attitude, and merits and listen to what they're saying when you can just point and scream and make accusations to stir up the outrage mob of low-information idiots? It's not like anyone's ever, say... convinced someone to leave the KKK by taking the time to listen to them and talking to them, right? Yeah, screaming names at them and yelling and repeating bad stereotypes on the internet, that'll make a difference! No way will doing this repeatedly make it become a meme, right?

Not a dig on the OP, I promise. As I said, I'm not calling you a liar or even really casting doubt that you've seen things like this before. Maybe it just seems like you were leaning toward a certain thing you were biased against, and it stood out to someone. That's all. I'd be lying if I said I've never seen that kind of silliness in some way or another.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LunarSol wrote:
Generally when I see really bad behavior its defensive in nature. Either an alpha of a small pack afraid of a challenger or collections of people that see themselves as outsiders afraid that newcomers will reject them from the group they established.

There are those, man. Some guy has found that ONE THING in life he can actually not fail at miserably, and he's vicious about protecting his status. I know it almost sounds cliche', but absolutely every single guy I've seen that acts like an arrogant douche-tool at the table is actually some kind of slob that has a lot in life he's failing at. It's a weird compensation.

Other than that, and I might have already said this- but a majority of the 'worst people' I've ever had to deal with usually have some mental problems that are beyond 'mild', they're just usually neglecting to get treatment or simply didn't have the proper counseling, guidance, and support to cope with people socially.

Also, about body odour...

I am a carpenter, I work really hard. I sweat. Everyone on the site is sweating and we all smell. That is a situation in which all parties must simply accept that everyone is stinky. You get these guys now who put on pit stick over lunch and complain about BO... No dude, you're a sensitive pussycat on a construction site, man up or go home. You can't complain about body odour in that setting.

In a game store, where there should be ample opportunity for getting clean before arriving, there is no excuse for BO. What? Shuffling those magic cards made you lose 5lbs? No. You sweat a lot. Make an effort for yourself and the people around you. Mostly do it for yourself though. Once you remove that repellant smog layer you will find more people want to engage with you. Take it from a smoker. People who don't smoke or have quit hate me because I smoke like a chimney. You walk into a clean game store after having a smoke and you can watch the noses wrinkle.

The game store I harangue has a sign in the bathroom, right under a can of men's and ladies spray deodorant, it reads: Please, Help Your Self. They go through a fair bit of spray...

 darkcloak wrote:
Also, about body odour...
...
The game store I harangue has a sign in the bathroom, right under a can of men's and ladies spray deodorant, it reads: Please, Help Your Self. They go through a fair bit of spray...

A large majority of the people I've dealt with that just absolutely reek of B.O. aren't 'sweaty' or 'not wearing deodorant'...

Trust me when I say this, as a veteran that's done his time on deployments where there were no showers, field exercises, etc...

...this is straight-up unwashed butt and wearing the same clothes over and over. You can blast an entire can of industrial-strength weapons-grade deodorant/antiperspirant under their pits but it's not going to get rid of that stink. It's sweaty balls and dirty after-poop butthole, unwashed underwear that's been on for days, clothes that haven't been washed, and general bacterial body funk from not getting into a shower and scrubbing yourself down.

FOR DAYS.

Trust me, I KNOW THAT STINK.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I was, in all honestly, almost expecting to see something about MAGA hats and southern accents.

I think that if you mapped political alignments for various gaming groups, tabletop wargamers would include a much stronger rightward cadre than other games. The combination of militarism, competition, and subject matter lead many communities to have a pretty strong rightward lean. (Malifaux is probably the biggest exception, which even I'll joke seems to be the preferred game for people with complicated gender or sexual identity).

You can get annoyed at the implications of political views and behavior, but with tabletop wargaming, it's there. To be fair, the jerks at a World of Darkness LARP probably are pretty far to the left.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
Also, about body odour...
...
The game store I harangue has a sign in the bathroom, right under a can of men's and ladies spray deodorant, it reads: Please, Help Your Self. They go through a fair bit of spray...

A large majority of the people I've dealt with that just absolutely reek of B.O. aren't 'sweaty' or 'not wearing deodorant'...

Trust me when I say this, as a veteran that's done his time on deployments where there were no showers, field exercises, etc...

...this is straight-up unwashed butt and wearing the same clothes over and over. You can blast an entire can of industrial-strength weapons-grade deodorant/antiperspirant under their pits but it's not going to get rid of that stink. It's sweaty balls and dirty after-poop butthole, unwashed underwear that's been on for days, clothes that haven't been washed, and general bacterial body funk from not getting into a shower and scrubbing yourself down.

FOR DAYS.

Trust me, I KNOW THAT STINK.

Yeah but when you go to the game store, you're not still being a Catachan. You don't come off deployment, still with a bullet in you, directly from the battlefield! You do have a chance to scrape the crud off and relearn how to speak before you grab your game case and head off for a friendly 500 pointer.

At least, I hope you had time...

One thing that really struck me was how often people said things like "most people are jerks." I really feel that having a misanthropic attitude makes it more likely to see the world as full of awful people.

Plenty of people are good, or bad, but most people are just people. I'm not exactly pollyana, but I find that some of the pessimism and disdain for others is really unwarranted. Further, I think that when we really see the world as full of terrible people, that's what we get from it.

I feel like it should be said at this point that while I preach a mighty order of self help the point isn't so that other people will think you are not stinky. The idea is that by improving your self, your mental, physical and spiritual self, you gain a greater measure of self respect. By being more comfortable with yourself and more confident, you will be greater able to enjoy life. Does anyone really want to sit at home all day in front of a computer and have no friends? People don't want to be trapped by their flaws, but often their mindset is so self reinforcing it becomes impossible to overcome it.

 Grimtuff wrote:
And here was me thinking this thread was going to be about the tendency for certain GW fanbois to chug too much of the proverbial kool aid and treat GW/40k like it is some kind of religion that must be defended unto death amongst all attackers from without and within against an perceived slight on Holy GW.

That's it! You and me, rapiers at 40 paces. Meet behind the dumpster in Nottingham at high noon on the solstice.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Polonius wrote:
One thing that really struck me was how often people said things like "most people are jerks." I really feel that having a misanthropic attitude makes it more likely to see the world as full of awful people.

Plenty of people are good, or bad, but most people are just people. I'm not exactly pollyana, but I find that some of the pessimism and disdain for others is really unwarranted. Further, I think that when we really see the world as full of terrible people, that's what we get from it.

I've been to a few areas where right off the cuff I've been "warned" about some player or group of area players. Generally I find gak starting to be a lucrative hobby in just about any fandom or organized societal event. Just look at US politics...

 Polonius wrote:
You can get annoyed at the implications of political views and behavior, but with tabletop wargaming, it's there. To be fair, the jerks at a World of Darkness LARP probably are pretty far to the left.

It's not so much an annoyance, but rather just an awareness that some individuals out there tend to be a bit more blind to the idiot within their village, because of their bias. And I'm no exception, no one is. It takes a bit of patience and awareness but eventually you start to spot them and acknowledge them (because if your 'village' is very important to you, your own village idiot is worse for you than the rival village's idiot).

 darkcloak wrote:
Yeah but when you go to the game store, you're not still being a Catachan. You don't come off deployment, still with a bullet in you, directly from the battlefield! You do have a chance to scrape the crud off and relearn how to speak before you grab your game case and head off for a friendly 500 pointer.

At least, I hope you had time...

I can assure you, after a deployment or field training- the very last thing I want to be around is a bunch of other stinky dudes. Emphasis mostly on the 'dude' part. And while I love wargaming, I usually want to spend a couple of days scrubbing myself down and sleeping and having beers. So this will never be a concern, I promise.

 Togusa wrote:
I've been to a few areas where right off the cuff I've been "warned" about some player or group of area players. Generally I find gak starting to be a lucrative hobby in just about any fandom or organized societal event. Just look at US politics...

We have a few individuals in my gaming areas that we warn others off. For various reasons- some take painting commissions after showing off amazing models, and then you get an army back that looks like it was painted with a shotgun and there are missing pieces and even models (especially Forge World components) that are sometimes not-so-cleverly replaced with an inferior or knock-off version. Others are just altogether awful people to play against, because they prey on new players or casual players new to the area- and lay down some unholy Tournament Net List and pound them into oblivion. Some can't seem to win a 'friendly game' without running around and thumping their chest and gloating about how quick they took out your whatever to everyone they know FOR WEEKS.

I know this may sound an awful lot like bullying or cruelty, but those individuals? I have absolutely no problem letting everyone know exactly who they are. If I had it my way they'd be banned from every store within 100 miles, but for now I'm rather pleased to see that most of them are usually sitting in some corner with their models and no one interacting with them. When they improve their attitudes and behavior, I'll be the first to have a game (and I do often test the waters), but until then- they can sit alone and watch everyone else have fun, and eventually maybe that little light bulb will click on.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

I think FLGS should be the one last haven for people who smell and can't go around anywhere else, but I agree, there are only 3 Indiana Jones movies:
- Raiders of the Lost Ark
- Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
- Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Holy wars will be fought over whether Last Crusade, Temple of Doom or Lost Ark is the bad Indiana Jones that must be purged from history .
Great minds etc.

I want you both to know, and I mean this in the nicest way possible.

If I lived near you I would poop in your water sources.

Because of this.

You vile monsters.

May whatever gods exist cast you into the blackest part of some kind of hell, with every copy of that NONEXISTENT MOVIE SHUT UP ABOUT IT

You know what?

I hope you guys find un-altered versions of the classic Star Wars trilogy and your dog chews it up.

The dog you love.

So you can't even be really mad at him about it.

Take that.

I'm actually crying.

Jokes on you, I have my unaltered versions of the classic star wars trilogy on DVDs and USB flash drives squirreled in various locations including a fireproof safe, with redundant copies in case of damage or corruption of the files.

Let's have a round of applause to congratulate all those people on here who feel the need to state that they wash their bodies using soap - well done!

Your medals are in the post you wonderful, wonderful people.


Do we really need yet another thread griping about the behaviour and cleanliness of other players? Do we really need to offer eachother congratulatory handshakes because we use deodourant? Is this what we need to massage our egos and feel superior? Why don't you... speak to these people? Maybe offer to even help them? Be the difference rather than yet another moaner.

The whole thing with people who obviously haven't bathed in quite some time is horrible... happened to me in MTG. Thankfully, I don't think I've had a problem with it (except maybe once in passing) when it comes to Warhammer. IMHO, that's just totally unacceptable.

SG

 Wulfmar wrote:
Let's have a round of applause to congratulate all those people on here who feel the need to state that they wash their bodies using soap - well done!

Your medals are in the post you wonderful, wonderful people.


Do we really need yet another thread griping about the behaviour and cleanliness of other players? Do we really need to offer eachother congratulatory handshakes because we use deodourant? Is this what we need to massage our egos and feel superior? Why don't you... speak to these people? Maybe offer to even help them? Be the difference rather than yet another moaner.

So you're suggesting people offer to wash them and do their laundry for them instead of complaining? Most people don't say anything to the person because they want to avoid conflict. If you say something about the wrong person the store may turn on you. I know when I played magic there was a player who was a nightmare but nothing was ever done because he spent the most money. Doesn't matter how much a guy's BO bothers the other players, if he drops hundreds of dollars each visit the store owner is going to side with him.

Help them in ways like chucking them your deodourant to borrow. You judge the situation when you're in it.


My point stands - whining like a little child with a skinned knee on the internet about body odour is just lame.

 Polonius wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I was, in all honestly, almost expecting to see something about MAGA hats and southern accents.

I think that if you mapped political alignments for various gaming groups, tabletop wargamers would include a much stronger rightward cadre than other games. The combination of militarism, competition, and subject matter lead many communities to have a pretty strong rightward lean. (Malifaux is probably the biggest exception, which even I'll joke seems to be the preferred game for people with complicated gender or sexual identity).

I've never heard that, why would you say so?

 Polonius wrote:
You can get annoyed at the implications of political views and behavior, but with tabletop wargaming, it's there. To be fair, the jerks at a World of Darkness LARP probably are pretty far to the left.

What's wrong with World of Darkness LARP folks?

There are all walks of life involved in all manner of hobbies.
I think 40k wargaming has not cornered the market on "strange".
You are also spending extended time in close proximity with a person for an hour or two so get to know them pretty good (like it or not).

I do admit as I get older, the Science Fiction Grimdark miniatures become more and more "toys" to the general population so can become a wee bit of a fringe pursuit for the over 30 crowd (I am almost pushing 50).

I figure if you are staring at models for hours as "angry" as GW ones it would leave a bit of a mark.

I also noticed many people on the autism spectrum really seem to be attracted to the game for some reason.
My son is geared toward being very competitive and seems to have little patience but putting together a few Ork models are happy times for him.
Crushing his enemy however is where the fun is...
BUT as I have seen many times: we are all our own special snowflakes.

Just point out the rude behavior (many people can be oblivious to it) and take a pass on playing anyone unwilling to follow a few common social graces.

I AM strange but not awkwardly so (that I know of) and can barely bat an eye to those with the purple / green / red dyed hair / piercings / tattoos: anyone willing to take the steps to stand out more at the very least should have an audience.
Don't stomp all over a person's fun or rights and the rest really is just details.

 Wulfmar wrote:
Do we really need yet another thread griping about the behaviour and cleanliness of other players? Do we really need to offer eachother congratulatory handshakes because we use deodourant? Is this what we need to massage our egos and feel superior? Why don't you... speak to these people? Maybe offer to even help them? Be the difference rather than yet another moaner.

Hold on, I'll be blunt with you. Don't take me for being rude, but let's be completely honest with one another.

If you want the TL;DR version I will summarize it: I could very well help them out instead of complaining. But this is NOT my problem to fix unless I work at or own the store in question. I'm not mopping the bathrooms at McDonald's, or re-organizing the shelves at Wal-Mart, and I'm not going to the doctor's office to stick a thermometer in some other patient's butthole. We're "Complaining and not doing something" because, we are customers and this is not our responsibility. And it can be a a liability if we make it ours. In other words, this is 'just complaining' because a lot of stores aren't dealing with the problem, and they need to know just how detrimental it can be.

For the more in-depth explaination-

We have absolutely no shortage of complaints about players being some kind of bigot (sexist, racist, homophobe, whatever) in nearly every forum for every type of multi-player social game imaginable. Not only do we have people sharing said stories (whether they are true or not is irrelevant); but we have individuals, group movements, campaigns, and even companies whose entire motivation is eliminating this sort of behavior in its entirety from the various gaming communities for various games.

Yet, for some reason, in every single gaming establishment I've frequented more than a handful of times for any significant period of time- someone smells like they've not washed in days. Not someone who's been sweating or forgot deodorant, or just forgot to brush their teeth, or maybe wore yesterday's socks... but a person who actually smells worse than some of the homeless people who spend days sleeping in the streets.

I know, you're just seeing more complaints. But there's a point here. I'm all for getting awful people like bigots to fix their attitudes and change or just go play elsewhere. But I don't have high hopes, because if we can't even solve something as simple as telling someone they need to go clean themselves and put on clean clothes- I really, really, really doubt people have the moral courage and intestinal fortitude to stand up to Johnny "Woman-Hater" McRacist. It's like telling me you're going to put out a raging house fire but you're shirking from a lit match.

So, before you say "Stop complaining and do something", I'll share a bit with you: Many of us HAVE done that. I can say I have more than once. And trust me, it's very difficult for me but I can very much explain with a great deal of discretion and courtesy that someone needs to take care of a problem.

I learned a long time ago that unless I'm an employee, I shouldn't be addressing the other customer about it. That's gotten very hostile by more than one person when I did, and I was downright polite and addressed the guy privately and nicely. Never again, lesson learned. After all, I'm also a customer and I shouldn't have to be doing what an employee or owner should be doing.

I've even engaged an employee about it before in one place, and still got tossed out. I'm just assuming there was some friendship or something, but that place's reputation was well-earned and it didn't last. Go figure.

And as I said before, a lot of this isn't a 'deodorant fix'. This is downright pure-body smell. Hair traps odors, unwashed clothing holds these odors and bacteria, and simply unwashed skin smells and you're covered in dead skin- not to mention a lot of people don't really clean their butts after they have a poop and sweat runs down the buttcrack and carries that poop-stink with the sweat-stink and makes everything worse every time they move.

I also understand that a lot of people like this may very well be mentally ill or have some other sort of problem. I get that, but while I do my very best to be as compassionate as possible regarding conditions- at the end of the day I shouldn't have to 'suck it up'. I shouldn't have to be the one taking care of a problem that an establishment is responsible for. And, I shouldn't have to risk getting sick because someone doesn't wash themselves and walks around the FLGS coughing, touching terrain and merchandise, etc and potentially spreading all kinds of potential disease.

Nearly every modern FLGS attempts to make itself a 'family environment' but a lot of these places have people so gross and nasty that I'd consider it safer to put my own kid to work in a factory during the industrial revolution than let him touch anything in the store.

Maybe it's because these stores are afraid to lose a customer- add that to the fact that a lot of players may just be afraid to address it and there's nowhere else to go and play instead. Maybe people are just as aware that I am that this person may have some condition or illness and they're afraid of some discrimination lawsuit. I don't know, there's plenty of reasons why this may not be fixed but the fact of the matter is that it needs to be, and people wouldn't be complaining if it weren't a reality.

And if I may be honest, I belong to two private gaming groups where I pay a membership fee (for food and terrain and such), and I can tell you that every single person in those gaming groups has expressed that their reason for wanting to play somewhere outside the FLGS is because they're sick and tired of a place having people who smell so bad- that it's embarrassing. I wouldn't want to bring a friend there to show him how to play and get him interested in the game. I wouldn't want my significant other showing up with me to meet people who play. And when it gets bad enough, I take my business away from the FLGS and start ordering my models online and play privately.

It's not 'our problem', it's on the stores. And people will keep complaining about it until the taboo of addressing it is gone. There certainly will be people offended, maybe a little outrage- but a bit of routine housekeeping is in order and no real fixes get implemented without a little bit of sweat and tears.

 Talizvar wrote:
There are all walks of life involved in all manner of hobbies.
I think 40k wargaming has not cornered the market on "strange".

It doesn't, not by a long shot. The thing is, we're social in a different way. If you want some strange characters and some people who are on a level that is mind-blowing? Go frequent some RPG pages. Trust me, the things there should be archived as some sort of museum attraction.

 darkcloak wrote:
The "jerk40k article"...

Let's fight about this for years. I for one feel the OP is wrong and that all 40kers are upright, bathing members of society who are the pinnacle of social graces! But of course, anyone who disagrees with the OP will be wrong and part of the problem. I am a dirty jerkist who openly supports poor hygiene. At least that's what the OP will say instead of attacking my argument...

Actually... no, you might not be part of the 'dirty/smelly' or 'TFG' parts of the 40k community, but an attitude like yours definitely puts you firmly into the 'Jerk40k' category.

I mean you attack the OP, state categorically that he is wrong without any actual proof to the contrary, and then say that -he- will randomly insult/attack you without responding with an actual argument (a crime that you just committed, but which the OP has so far made no signs of).

So yeh, hypocritical and jerky behaviour, you're the problem not the solution.

 Togusa wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
And here was me thinking this thread was going to be about the tendency for certain GW fanbois to chug too much of the proverbial kool aid and treat GW/40k like it is some kind of religion that must be defended unto death amongst all attackers from without and within against an perceived slight on Holy GW.

That's it! You and me, rapiers at 40 paces. Meet behind the dumpster in Nottingham at high noon on the solstice.

Ah americans and their lack of knowladge of the dueling art. If you are the one who challanges to a duel, it is your opponents right to pick the weapon.

I mean you attack the OP, state categorically that he is wrong without any actual proof to the contrary, and then say that -he- will randomly insult/attack you without responding with an actual argument (a crime that you just committed, but which the OP has so far made no signs of).

The burden of proof falls on the person that brings up a thesis. If someone claims X is a thing, that it is to him to prove that it is so. And it is everyones right to give arguments for it to not be so.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Yet, for some reason, in every single gaming establishment I've frequented more than a handful of times for any significant period of time- someone smells like they've not washed in days. Not someone who's been sweating or forgot deodorant, or just forgot to brush their teeth, or maybe wore yesterday's socks... but a person who actually smells worse than some of the homeless people who spend days sleeping in the streets.

I suspect, like many of your posts, this is hyperbolic nonsense. I've played a lot of games in a lot of different stores and I can't remember anyone who smelled worse than homeless people, not even close. A bit sweaty, especially on hot day with a large crowd? Yep. Smelling like oil/chemicals/etc because they came directly from work? Yep. But nothing like you're describing. If it has ever happened in my presence it's been so rare that I can't remember any incidents. TBH the worst I've smelled is the people who smoke outside and then insist on coming back in the store, and for some reason that's considered a socially acceptable activity even outside of gaming.

Karol wrote:

Ah americans and their lack of knowladge of the dueling art. If you are the one who challanges to a duel, it is your opponents right to pick the weapon.

You say this, but we actually know.

That's why when I'm challenged, the weapon I choose is hot dogs at noon.

Then you wait.

Your opponent will get hungry because it's noon.

He eats his hot dog.

Now he's unarmed and you're not.

Checkmate European Aristocracy.

Karol wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
And here was me thinking this thread was going to be about the tendency for certain GW fanbois to chug too much of the proverbial kool aid and treat GW/40k like it is some kind of religion that must be defended unto death amongst all attackers from without and within against an perceived slight on Holy GW.

That's it! You and me, rapiers at 40 paces. Meet behind the dumpster in Nottingham at high noon on the solstice.

Ah americans and their lack of knowladge of the dueling art. If you are the one who challanges to a duel, it is your opponents right to pick the weapon.

To be fair, historically, Americans just dueled with guns. Heck, some of our greatest politicians in the early days of the country are even known for dueling with pistols. And that's not even getting into duels in the "wild west".

So why choose weapons when we can just bring a gun to your sword fight?

Shoting someone in the back when he is in the out house, or jumping a dude going out of the house with your 10 goons generally does not count as dueling. But yeah I understand the cultural difference.

By the way durning duels, people could pick guns. Heck there were mad man who when challanged were picking some very ungentelmanly weapons. It wasn't very honorable, but they did have the option. Also seeing the face of a british lad, being informed that the weapons of duel are going to be claymores, which struggle to lift.

Karol wrote:
Shoting someone in the back when he is in the out house, or jumping a dude going out of the house with your 10 goons generally does not count as dueling. But yeah I understand the cultural difference.

No, we actually had one-on-one, choose your pistol duels.

Andrew Jackson challenged a guy, and then told him he could even shoot first. The guy shot Jackson, which was all good and settled. They became friends and Andrew Jackson gave him the bullet as a gift and a bit of a joke.

He was kind of insane.

Yes, insane does describe XIX century america well. Most newspapers I read that described american "duels" are of the "he was going out of the house of ill repute totally drunk, so my friend hit him with a wooden horse coller, and then the four of us opened fire at him with shotguns" kind.

Not saying it isn't effective at killing the person. Death per capita it is probablly more deadly then the normal duel.