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I keep hearing people speaking about using Astra Militarum as a CP battery but I'm not sure how. What will allow me to try & regain CP for my Adeptus Astartes army if I add in some Astra Militarum or is it just the cheap battalion CP people are speaking of. Is there a way to build a Adeptus Astartes army that can regenerate CP on their own?

It embarrassing but some 30 point imperial guard chump actually makes a better warlord than Guilliman thats how busted Guard CP regen is

IG with the correct selections can start a game with 12 CP and generate an additional 10 CP during rhe game assuming that the opposition has 9 CP's to spend after the IG comander is on the table.

Astartes can’t do it as well. You can regenerate 1CP *per Stratagem* on a 5+ via a Warlord Trait. Guard can do it *per CP spent* on a 5+ (roll for each CP not just once per Strat as per Astartes). They can also generate off their opponent, gain 1CP per Stratagem played by opponent on a 5+.

The magic combo is Grand Strategist WL Trait and the Kurov’s Aquila relic. Even if you spend -1CP to take Kurov’s Aquila as a second relic, it’s under 200pts to take a bare bones Battalion and start with the tricks above and an extra 4CP to start with.

Yeah, the IG regen is just absurd. I played a game (pure IG, granted, no soup nonsense) this week where I started with 4 CP and managed to spend at least 10-15 CP because of that combination and a bit of luck with the 5+. I went from having a small CP pool because of awkward detachment limits to having more CP than a typical 1500 point army and probably could have had even more if my opponent hadn't ended the game with CP left unspent.

As a guard player, I always thought it was stupid that we have 2 CP regeneration traits/relics that can be taken at the same time... As if we weren't flooded with CPs already.

I'd be fine with losing grand strategist OR Kurov's aquila if it means we get something else cool to compensate.

they definatly need to find some way to nerf this.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Astartes can’t do it as well. You can regenerate 1CP *per Stratagem* on a 5+ via a Warlord Trait. Guard can do it *per CP spent* on a 5+ (roll for each CP not just once per Strat as per Astartes). They can also generate off their opponent, gain 1CP per Stratagem played by opponent on a 5+.

The magic combo is Grand Strategist WL Trait and the Kurov’s Aquila relic. Even if you spend -1CP to take Kurov’s Aquila as a second relic, it’s under 200pts to take a bare bones Battalion and start with the tricks above and an extra 4CP to start with.

BA have the relic veritas vitae, which lets you roll for every stratagem you use, you get 1 CP on 5+.

BrianDavion wrote:
they definatly need to find some way to nerf this.

Just out of interest, but why do they need to find a way to nerf this? Its a highly useful tool that imperial armies have to give them flexibility in the use of their strategems that they would otherwise struggle with (due to the nature of other imperial armies being highly elite), with the opportunity cost of one of your detachments, your warlord trait, spending CP to take any relics you actually want and approximately 10% of your armies total value.

It is un-arguably a really good tool. But is having good tools inherently a problem for the game? Are imperium armies, that have enough CP actively making the game less fun? Or is it a case of 'I cant have it' syndrome?

Should we also demand nerfs to every races good tools, and advantages?

In my opinion, its important to only nerf things that are actually causing a problem for the game, and making it less fun to play.

Would it be nice to see a greater variety in imperium armies? Yes.
Should we do this by making their good options worse? No, we should do it by making their bad options good.

CPs are supposed to be a limited resource. If you can have effectively unlimited CP it kinda breaks the system.

No need to nerf those as long as you can't use those CPs on non IG detachments.

 Crimson wrote:
CPs are supposed to be a limited resource. If you can have effectively unlimited CP it kinda breaks the system.

Agreed, it just feels really bad to play against especially if you don't have access to similar abilities in your army at all.

I play Guard so I'm not just moaning haha.

I would replace all such abilities with either a static increase in starting CP (Eg Kurov's Aquila could be +2 starting CP and that's it) or with a limited CP discount (Eg once per battle round when you use a strat it costs 1 less CP, minimum or 1).

 Crimson wrote:
CPs are supposed to be a limited resource. If you can have effectively unlimited CP it kinda breaks the system.

The fact almost every competitive army for every faction takes their CP farm relic/WL trait etc should show how broken it is.

Either nerf it or - if people think this is a "FUN" feature - make it baseline. Perhaps all Warlords could get "roll a D6 any time either player uses a stratagem. On a 6 you gain 1CP" just as a perk of being Warlord, alive and on the table.

None of it breaks the game really. It does make some choices "optimal" in a very competitive setting.

I understand it's galling to watch if you don't have the ability to do it yourself, though.

It's quite strange that Xenos factions were denied anything like this.

 Silentz wrote:
None of it breaks the game really. It does make some choices "optimal" in a very competitive setting.

I understand it's galling to watch if you don't have the ability to do it yourself, though.

It's quite strange that Xenos factions were denied anything like this.

Tau can have a CP regen ability.

Chaos don't though.

GK don't have any native regeneration either.

secretForge wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
they definatly need to find some way to nerf this.

Just out of interest, but why do they need to find a way to nerf this? Its a highly useful tool that imperial armies have to give them flexibility in the use of their strategems that they would otherwise struggle with (due to the nature of other imperial armies being highly elite), with the opportunity cost of one of your detachments, your warlord trait, spending CP to take any relics you actually want and approximately 10% of your armies total value.

It is un-arguably a really good tool. But is having good tools inherently a problem for the game? Are imperium armies, that have enough CP actively making the game less fun? Or is it a case of 'I cant have it' syndrome?

Should we also demand nerfs to every races good tools, and advantages?

In my opinion, its important to only nerf things that are actually causing a problem for the game, and making it less fun to play.

Would it be nice to see a greater variety in imperium armies? Yes.
Should we do this by making their good options worse? No, we should do it by making their bad options good.

It simply seems a little too efficient, Grand Strategist alone gives about 50% more cp, combo that with the aquila and...
There is also the argument that it encourages soup (lots of cp to spend = want access to more stratagems) while not necessarily a bad thing it may disadvantage single faction lists.

"Roll a dice for every Command Point used on an Astra Militarum Stratagem. On a 5+ that Command Point is refunded."

There, I fixed Grand Strategist for you GW.

Stux wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
None of it breaks the game really. It does make some choices "optimal" in a very competitive setting.

I understand it's galling to watch if you don't have the ability to do it yourself, though.

It's quite strange that Xenos factions were denied anything like this.

Tau can have a CP regen ability.

Chaos don't though.

The Tau relic is 1CP on a 6+ for each strategum you or an opponent uses.
Ultramarines are regen on 5+ for yout own strategums only
Choas can steel on 5+
Blood Angels can get 1 per strategum on a 5+?

Yes other factions have some CP abilities but no one is on Astra Millicheese levels of farming their farmed CP
Regen every CP used on a 5+
Steel CP on a 5+
Regen both regenerated CP on 5+

Guard can farm on avarage list numbers of 12 and 9 CP at the start of the game another 10 CP no other army can come close. They can achive about 5 CP. The more CP each army has the more the disparity grows.

Hey, I never said others were anywhere near as good as Guard! Just that they do get something.

What's the Chaos ability out of interest? I'm struggling to find it

I'd love to advocate that the CP regens all be nerfed from the game, but I think I favor a complete CP rework for everyone.

Overall I think that if they do a CP rework they should make it much more balanced.

At 2K all armies get 10 CP. All armies have a Warlord option that gives 2 more CP. All armies have a a heirloom relic that gives another 2 CP.

So at 2K all forces would have 10-14 CP. And the ones with more CP gave up a relic, or a Warlord Trait.

Reemule wrote:
I'd love to advocate that the CP regens all be nerfed from the game, but I think I favor a complete CP rework for everyone.

Overall I think that if they do a CP rework they should make it much more balanced.

At 2K all armies get 10 CP. All armies have a Warlord option that gives 2 more CP. All armies have a a heirloom relic that gives another 2 CP.

So at 2K all forces would have 10-14 CP. And the ones with more CP gave up a relic, or a Warlord Trait.

CPs exist to reward organic forces, so what you propose is not applicable.

Also, there is no problem with CP in itself right now. The stratagems for each faction are as strong as it is hard for that faction to gather CP.
The only problem is being able to use CP generated for cheap, on high yeld stratagems from other factions.

"CPs granted by a detachment and by rules of units in that detachment can only be used on stratagems unlocked by that detachment". Fixed, simple and easy.

Spoletta wrote:

Reemule wrote:
I'd love to advocate that the CP regens all be nerfed from the game, but I think I favor a complete CP rework for everyone.

Overall I think that if they do a CP rework they should make it much more balanced.

At 2K all armies get 10 CP. All armies have a Warlord option that gives 2 more CP. All armies have a a heirloom relic that gives another 2 CP.

So at 2K all forces would have 10-14 CP. And the ones with more CP gave up a relic, or a Warlord Trait.

CPs exist to reward organic forces, so what you propose is not applicable.

Also, there is no problem with CP in itself right now. The stratagems for each faction are as strong as it is hard for that faction to gather CP.
The only problem is being able to use CP generated for cheap, on high yeld stratagems from other factions.

"CPs granted by a detachment and by rules of units in that detachment can only be used on stratagems unlocked by that detachment". Fixed, simple and easy.

I don't disagree. Like everyone, I have my favored way of hoping it gets cleared up. Perhaps your ideas will be the ones used in any eventual fix, and I wouldn't complain I think.

When a tool is only given to specific players (imperials) and unusable by others, with the tool being an auto include for majority of competitive lists, it is likely unbalanced. As other factions have nothing similar in price or efficiency.

So fixes ideas.
-you may only use stratagems from the same faction/regiment/chapter as your warlord. (An Astra Militarum warlord may only use Astra Militarum stratagems) excluding universal stratagems.

-each detachment has it's own CP pool. Using only the CP earned or generated. (With multi wound vehicles and characters, players can track two more counters.)

-your warlord may only be chosen from the detachment with the highest points / power level value. With ties resulting in controlling players choice.

-for armies with allies. The warlord is picked from the faction with the highest strategy rating (good old 3rd edition)

Agreed. Notice the Gen Con winner took the double battery, and had 21 CP? Nerf it!

They need to split CPs generated by each separate faction to only help themselves. I really like allies as a concept but 8th has perverted it to be way to gamy.

Even if we ignored the soup, I still don't think it is fair that one faction can have unlimited CP.

I think that CP split between various detachments is too book keeper ish.

I'd think that your warlord determines the Stratagems you have access to is a better fix just for simplicity.

And remove the CP battery's.

Grand Strategist needs to be un-FAQ'd to be like the rest of the regen traits.

The Aquilla probably just shouldn't be. Not sure what to replace it with though.

Reemule wrote:
I think that CP split between various detachments is too book keeper ish.

I'd think that your warlord determines the Stratagems you have access to is a better fix just for simplicity.

And remove the CP battery's.

I don't see how this adds that much book keeping. Take a piece of paper and make a column for each faction. When you use some, cross it off and right your new number. If you get some back, cross that off and right your new number. It would be even simpler if GW hadn't gone and made regain CP a thing to begin with it.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

Reemule wrote:
I think that CP split between various detachments is too book keeper ish.

I'd think that your warlord determines the Stratagems you have access to is a better fix just for simplicity.

And remove the CP battery's.

I don't see how this adds that much book keeping. Take a piece of paper and make a column for each faction. When you use some, cross it off and right your new number. If you get some back, cross that off and right your new number. It would be even simpler if GW hadn't gone and made regain CP a thing to begin with it.

Agreed. A significant number of models have multiple wounds to track, as well as there are some ways to be healed. Players are already tracking a large amount of numbers. I do not see how keeping track of two to three more is that big of an issue.