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I do not understand how GSC getting an announcement is bad for Orks. That's ridiculous.

 Marmatag wrote:
I do not understand how GSC getting an announcement is bad for Orks. That's ridiculous.

Because it wasn't an announcement for Orks, therefore it's bad. That's the "logic" I've seeing at least.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Trolling? No. Being a bit harsh on some self entitled internet whiners? Definitely. Space Wolves weren't crying about how they hadn't seen anything for their army in the same time and you don't see Sisters players posting daily about how we haven't gotten any new updates about the Sisters update since then either. Only the Orks are crying about how badly GW is treating them and acting like they're owed information that breaks GW's information release cycle.

Seriously, you aren't owed an update until it's time to for you to get your money ready to order the codex. Anything else is just an attitude that makes the entire community look bad and it rightly irks me, and others.

SW players aren't upset about the latest announcement and the delay with their codex?! Loooool. Sister's players aren't posting daily?! They've only been doing it ever since the Facebook Community site went up and they only stopped once GW relented and said they'd get an entire new range. Your fallacies are glaring an obvious. Have you actually looked at the Facebook page? It's starting to sound like you haven't.

GW have broken their own information release cycle you muppet. These 2 codexes have differed from every other codex announcement in terms of information quantity and frequency compared to all others in 8th to date. Maybe you should stop calling anyone who is unhappy a "self entitled internet whiner"? It's insulting. People are justified in their disappointment and you insulting them for their disappointment isn't going to help the situation.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Please cite sources for that quote because I'm not remembering it. And if it was true that promise was broken when they said Sisters were coming in 2019. We still need Sisters of Silence and the Inquisition as well with no word that they're even getting actual codexes and you're justifying about being confirmed to be getting updated this year? Have some perspective for feth's sake.

I can't find the quote and I have looked. Many others remember it though. There are countless posts on here and B&C referencing it. Inquisition and Sisters of Silence aren't codexes. They never have been and they never should be. Nor should Thousand Sons either.

Interesting how you ignored the whole part about "GW making a problem of their own design". Care to comment on that? Care to explain why people are wrong to be upset when GW suddenly decide to change their marketing strategy with no warning? 3 months isn't soon given the context of all other codex releases. GW should have known that going silent for so long would have negative consequences. They are falling on their own sword.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
"Emperor Willing" in 2019 and my entire army is older than most of the Ork line. Heck if the models aren't old enough to drink, they're at least old enough to smoke and vote. I think they need a massive overhaul more than the mostly plastic Ork line. You don't need such a promise because you don't need your all metal army to be turned into a plastic one for the first time in two decades.

And you were promised a codex but want more than anyone else is getting right now: information weeks and months ahead of your actual codex release. If that isn't being self-entitled I don't know what is.

Haven't GSC had new model previews before their codex is announced? Doesn't that break your statement in bold above? I guess all those GSC players are self entitled.

Haven't SOB had new model previews before their codex is announced? Haven't they been given rough dates to give ideas of when things will be happening? I guess all those SOB players are also self entitled.

I don't think you understand what "self entitled" means. I didn't need to be promised a codex. It's obvious it's coming, it has been since before 8th. We're talking about Orks for feths sake, a major 40k race that has existed since rogue trader. Where did I ask for information weeks and months ahead of the codex release? Where did anyone? Let me explain it in simple terms that you should be able to understand; GW have acted in a certain way. Try to keep up. Because of their (GW's) own actions people believe that a release of a codex (or 2) is imminent. The codex is not released quickly. There is no news as to why the codex isn't releasing quickly and people become frustrated. Whenever anyone asks why GW are acting differently for these 2 codexes they get a "your codex is coming soon" response. GW teases models for another faction, that has no codex and is not on the next 2 to be released. Every fan of the 2 codexes that were promised "soon" is baffled at this, wondering why GW is promoting new models for a codex that isn't even due. Specialist games are released one by one and still no news of those 2 codexes that were announced as "soon" 1 month, then 2 months ago. Fans of the 2 codexes are again baffled and confused that this marketing strategy employed by GW. It strikes them as very similar to "old GW", giving either false information or no information. Fans of the 2 codex factions slowly become bored of waiting and take a break from the hobby or start expressing their feelings on social media. Can you see why this might happen? Does it make sense when I break it down that way?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You mean the army that used to be a single all metal unit and didn't have a way to really be run in a truly fluffy manner until they got their army list in 7th? Gee it's like you have some kind of salt about neglected armies and units being made of metal being updated into plastic.

More salt about a niche army getting a full release that they never deserved or needed really.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I came here trying to seriously understand where the whining is coming from and frankly it comes right out of the backend of a grot as far as I've seen. If anything doesn't belong it's the attitude that Ork players are "owed" information long before their release. You can claim I'm trolling but I am being quite honest and direct with every post I've made. Read this thread again, I didn't start to point out the fallacy the Ork players are using as a crutch in their chief complaint about "no information" until I confirmed that it was exactly what it was: a bunch of Squig crap being paraded around as the moral high ground.

I refer you to the post above referencing SOB and GSC model previews. I also refer you to the actions of GW in the same post as a way of possibly helping you understand the sentiments of the Ork/SW community (and it is most definitely both).

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Which has clearly been stated to be unrelated to a codex release. It's tied into the Fang and Claw box instead.

Point? You don't think Ork players would wet their pants and start waving their choppas around if we had even the slightest hint of new models and a box set?! It doesn't matter if it's related to their own codex or not. It's new models. What almost every hobbyist wants for their faction.

 Marmatag wrote:
I do not understand how GSC getting an announcement is bad for Orks. That's ridiculous.

It's not and literally no one said anything like that? Have you actually read the thread?

I am predicting basically no one will play orks after the codex drops TBH.

 Primark G wrote:
I am predicting basically no one will play orks after the codex drops TBH.

I know I am selling my entire Ork collection if this codex is garbage so I'll be doing my part.

 Primark G wrote:
I am predicting basically no one will play orks after the codex drops TBH.

I'm predicting endless stupid arguments based off of minor misunderstandings after the codex drops.

 Primark G wrote:
I am predicting basically no one will play orks after the codex drops TBH.

Depends on how you define nobody.
I'll be playing Orks till they take my dice and tape measure away.
The other armies suck.

FLG said it will be OP.

 Primark G wrote:
I am predicting basically no one will play orks after the codex drops TBH.

Good thing your opinions are worth nothing! Crisis averted.

 Marmatag wrote:
I do not understand how GSC getting an announcement is bad for Orks. That's ridiculous.

Tooth and Claw releasing in late August must mean GW doesn’t know how to design Orks.

 Primark G wrote:
FLG said it will be OP.

They also said gretchin and stompas were good.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
FLG said it will be OP.

They also said gretchin and stompas were good.

I predict the post-codex meta will be Grots riding in Stompas.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
FLG said it will be OP.

They also said gretchin and stompas were good.

Gretchin are good in amazingly large numbers.

 Primark G wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
FLG said it will be OP.

They also said gretchin and stompas were good.

Gretchin are good in amazingly large numbers.

Don't you mean "Surprisingly dangerous in large numbers?"

How are the Negatrons after that leak over in N&R? Nuff teazinz for ya? Buggies look GREAT!

 JohnnyHell wrote:
How are the Negatrons after that leak over in N&R? Nuff teazinz for ya? Buggies look GREAT!

Sorry to down like a dakka-downer but something about that box art doesn't look very GW to me. Everything about that screams "knock-off." I know it ties into the whole "the orks just zogged off and started racing each other" lore but I'm going to stop myself from getting hyped until we get something a bit more concrete.

At the same time I've realized that being mad or petulant isn't going to solve anything, so instead I'm just gonna be happy for GSC and SW because they've been waiting just as long as we have with no news. Honestly I don't get why I was so upset about it in the first place.

This is long and I'm just off work so I'm going to post replies in yellow instead of mucking with tags for the next hour to reply to this.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Trolling? No. Being a bit harsh on some self entitled internet whiners? Definitely. Space Wolves weren't crying about how they hadn't seen anything for their army in the same time and you don't see Sisters players posting daily about how we haven't gotten any new updates about the Sisters update since then either. Only the Orks are crying about how badly GW is treating them and acting like they're owed information that breaks GW's information release cycle.

Seriously, you aren't owed an update until it's time to for you to get your money ready to order the codex. Anything else is just an attitude that makes the entire community look bad and it rightly irks me, and others.

SW players aren't upset about the latest announcement and the delay with their codex?! Loooool. Sister's players aren't posting daily?! They've only been doing it ever since the Facebook Community site went up and they only stopped once GW relented and said they'd get an entire new range. Your fallacies are glaring an obvious. Have you actually looked at the Facebook page? It's starting to sound like you haven't.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the massive salt mines and constant griping cropping up and dog piling every thread that even mentions Space Wolves like the Ork players are doing.

And your arguement is self-defeating here: Sisters had no updates but a slowly shrinking army due to models being removed in every codex (that never saw proper release like other codexes), once we got news it was coming we stopped. Once Orks got told they were getting a codex they started instead.

GW have broken their own information release cycle you muppet. These 2 codexes have differed from every other codex announcement in terms of information quantity and frequency compared to all others in 8th to date. Maybe you should stop calling anyone who is unhappy a "self entitled internet whiner"? It's insulting. People are justified in their disappointment and you insulting them for their disappointment isn't going to help the situation.

Broke by whose definition? Your's or GW's? Because GW never gave a timeline for "soon" and considering that we see special releases every summer why is it a shock that special releases would take priority over codex releases? Just because you made an assumption doesn't make your assumption correct or the originator of the statement you made assumptions about wrong.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Please cite sources for that quote because I'm not remembering it. And if it was true that promise was broken when they said Sisters were coming in 2019. We still need Sisters of Silence and the Inquisition as well with no word that they're even getting actual codexes and you're justifying about being confirmed to be getting updated this year? Have some perspective for feth's sake.

I can't find the quote and I have looked. Many others remember it though. There are countless posts on here and B&C referencing it. Inquisition and Sisters of Silence aren't codexes. They never have been and they never should be. Nor should Thousand Sons either.
Inquisition could definitely be a codex. It'd likely be on the smaller side and work by only using non-standard FOCs attached to other armies, but it should be given a proper update. Sisters of Silence should have been part of the Custodes update to give us a Talons of the Emperor in 40k. Since we didn't get that then we should see an update to them to flesh them out to a valid army to at least ally to Custodes.

No army should be told "you don't get rules" once it's been introduced to the game.

Interesting how you ignored the whole part about "GW making a problem of their own design". Care to comment on that? Care to explain why people are wrong to be upset when GW suddenly decide to change their marketing strategy with no warning? 3 months isn't soon given the context of all other codex releases. GW should have known that going silent for so long would have negative consequences. They are falling on their own sword.
The problem is the number of assumptions that were made while ignoring how GW has done special releases for the past few summers and summing that coming soon was a matter of the total release cycle and not in terms of which codexes are next. They fell on nothing, but rather have to deal with a bunch of grots running around and clambering about how GW is maliciously screwing their codex over on purpeose and trying to get them top burn their army to start another one.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
"Emperor Willing" in 2019 and my entire army is older than most of the Ork line. Heck if the models aren't old enough to drink, they're at least old enough to smoke and vote. I think they need a massive overhaul more than the mostly plastic Ork line. You don't need such a promise because you don't need your all metal army to be turned into a plastic one for the first time in two decades.

And you were promised a codex but want more than anyone else is getting right now: information weeks and months ahead of your actual codex release. If that isn't being self-entitled I don't know what is.

Haven't GSC had new model previews before their codex is announced? Doesn't that break your statement in bold above? I guess all those GSC players are self entitled.
So two points about GSC: 1. They were accidentally revealed at Warhammer World first, 2. They gave us context about that accident by saying those models were not indicitive of a codex release. Doesn't break anything when a slip up is the only reason we heard about them early.

Haven't SOB had new model previews before their codex is announced? Haven't they been given rough dates to give ideas of when things will be happening? I guess all those SOB players are also self entitled.
Preview. Not "previews" at this point. And this is separate from other codexes due to being specifically told it would be coming to make sure we actually know they were coming and responding to a massive and overwhelming response on the customer survey they did. Maybe if Orks pulled the same numbers the army to get special treatment specifically lavished on them (and then almost as quickly stopped after a single update) you'd get the same thing. And "2019" is about as precise as getting an update in 2018 of "soon".

Basically, you're grasping at squig hairs here to try and claim a moral high ground for something you weren't even promised (unlike Sisters who were explicitly promised special treatment that...has been less exciting as the original promise).

I don't think you understand what "self entitled" means. I didn't need to be promised a codex. It's obvious it's coming, it has been since before 8th. We're talking about Orks for feths sake, a major 40k race that has existed since rogue trader. Where did I ask for information weeks and months ahead of the codex release? Where did anyone? Let me explain it in simple terms that you should be able to understand; GW have acted in a certain way. Try to keep up. Because of their (GW's) own actions people believe that a release of a codex (or 2) is imminent. The codex is not released quickly. There is no news as to why the codex isn't releasing quickly and people become frustrated. Whenever anyone asks why GW are acting differently for these 2 codexes they get a "your codex is coming soon" response. GW teases models for another faction, that has no codex and is not on the next 2 to be released. Every fan of the 2 codexes that were promised "soon" is baffled at this, wondering why GW is promoting new models for a codex that isn't even due. Specialist games are released one by one and still no news of those 2 codexes that were announced as "soon" 1 month, then 2 months ago. Fans of the 2 codexes are again baffled and confused that this marketing strategy employed by GW. It strikes them as very similar to "old GW", giving either false information or no information. Fans of the 2 codex factions slowly become bored of waiting and take a break from the hobby or start expressing their feelings on social media. Can you see why this might happen? Does it make sense when I break it down that way?
So what I'm taking from this very long paragraph is that the community hyped itself up while ignoring the summer release schedule that we've been seeing for a couple years now and assuming that "soon" meant the entirety of GW's product line and not in direct relation to 40k's releases.

I mean, sure, it's nice getting news, but if you wind yourself up and then get mad that your self-inflated expectations aren't met it's not the fault of the company that your expectations where met based on promises you didn't actually have.

I get being disappointed, I really do. I mean I play Sisters, that means I basically drink disappointment in my morning coffee. But at the end of the day, hopping on the hype train too early isn't something to blame GW for. Maybe it's years of disappointment but honestly until the teasers or leaked pictures come out don't bother getting on that train because it's too soon.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You mean the army that used to be a single all metal unit and didn't have a way to really be run in a truly fluffy manner until they got their army list in 7th? Gee it's like you have some kind of salt about neglected armies and units being made of metal being updated into plastic.

More salt about a niche army getting a full release that they never deserved or needed really.
Your personal bias is showing very hard here. Just because it's not something you want it doesn't make it valid to have on the table. Especially since these "niche" armies (save for a few) had rules in RT and 2nd edition and deserved to come back.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I came here trying to seriously understand where the whining is coming from and frankly it comes right out of the backend of a grot as far as I've seen. If anything doesn't belong it's the attitude that Ork players are "owed" information long before their release. You can claim I'm trolling but I am being quite honest and direct with every post I've made. Read this thread again, I didn't start to point out the fallacy the Ork players are using as a crutch in their chief complaint about "no information" until I confirmed that it was exactly what it was: a bunch of Squig crap being paraded around as the moral high ground.

I refer you to the post above referencing SOB and GSC model previews. I also refer you to the actions of GW in the same post as a way of possibly helping you understand the sentiments of the Ork/SW community (and it is most definitely both).
Sisters got a specific promise to see updates, and GSC were leaked by GW themselves by accident leading to them owning up to the models coming. Not the same thing as what I've seen clambering about (like the claim that GW should have been running a drip fed hype train every week or so since the codexes were announced instead of a shorter time that wouldn't burn us all out on info by now).

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Which has clearly been stated to be unrelated to a codex release. It's tied into the Fang and Claw box instead.

Point? You don't think Ork players would wet their pants and start waving their choppas around if we had even the slightest hint of new models and a box set?! It doesn't matter if it's related to their own codex or not. It's new models. What almost every hobbyist wants for their faction.
You say that, but then also claim some armies should get nothing and shouldn't exist. You can't claim "everyone" wants to see new stuff while complaining that some things shouldn't exist (which is the same as telling anyone who does want those things that they shouldn't have them and shouldn't get more).

tl;dr: Sisters don't count due to actually being promised updates (Orks weren't), GSC were only announced due to GW goofing and accidently putting models out early and basically don't get on the hype train until you see pictures because you'll live a happier life.

at this point there is little new post wise on this thread.

some say ork players are rightfully disappointed

others say ork players are entitled whiners

and on between both these types of commenters is exactly why the ork community is "quieting down". i wont pretend im not apart of it, i help fuel some of this.

but when there is very few "tactics" to discuss besides waves of boyz, then all that leaves are those who post their conversions and paint jobs since they follow the hobby part of the community instead of the gaming. if you not that into going onto those sights or threads then all that is left are rumor and speculations threads and they are filled with many claiming others are trolls. its difficult to stay in there.

this can all disappear when the codex finally comes out, or it just might die down a little, because there will always be those who are disappointed and those who think they are above the "whiners".

geargutz wrote:
some say ork players are rightfully disappointed

others say ork players are entitled whiners

All we know is... he’s called the Squig. </Clarkson>

I guess I don't see the real issue. In this game, some codex was going to be last. It was always going to happen. I don't see much merit in whining over it. It'll be out when it's out. Your model line is fine with few exceptions, and it looks like you're getting some new models as well.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
tl;dr: Sisters don't count due to actually being promised updates (Orks weren't), GSC were only announced due to GW goofing and accidently putting models out early and basically don't get on the hype train until you see pictures because you'll live a happier life.

Ah so Sisters 'don't count' because.....reasons. GSC were an 'accident' so they don't count. "I hate it when I accidentally display new models instead of the current line, what a common mistake to make" said GW, never. Remember when GW accidentally displayed Magnus and Morty before release? Nor me. It was on purpose, don't be so naive. Then finally, don't assume a company is going to do the exact same thing it has done with every other release to date and then express an opinion when you're one of 2 factions treated differently.

Great feedback.

FYI it looks like GW have taken steps to curb the Ork player's sentiments by releasing a pic of an Ork themed stand alone racing game. So it looks like they don't agree with your sentiment that its the consumers fault for assuming continuity and consistency with releases and marketing strategy.

Stop drinking the koolaid and attacking customers. Sometimes a company fcks up. Here is an example of that.

I started collecting Orks after SW:A last year. I now have about 2700pts of Orks, most of which I have painted. That is probably about 500€+ worth of minis. I have played maybe 2-3 games with them, most of it was pretty pathetic. Sooo you might say I have high hopes that I can actually get some good games out of my collection with a new codex.

With that said, you could say I'm entitled to be disappointed. However I'm not whining about GW's release schedule on the interwebs, because the older you get the more you realize whining never ever changes anything. Patience is key.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Remember when GW accidentally displayed Magnus and Morty before release? Nor me. It was on purpose,

yeah see, thing is space marine players didn't bitch whine and moan about "why aren't we getting info instead" nor did death guard players begrudge space marines their release.

Honestly this whole "ohh how dare GW release something for another army instead of mine" childishness is rediculas, yet you see it all the time, people just need to chill. this is no longer the days when you could go 2-3 editions without a codex. A year isn't that long to wait for something

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
FYI it looks like GW have taken steps to curb the Ork player's sentiments by releasing a pic of an Ork themed stand alone racing game.

Gorkamorka? (well, speed freaks, but same kind of thing)

I remember there being rumours months back that the late ork release were tied to that. Honestly a little surprised to see them pan out, a quick bit of googling indicates... wolves August, speedfreaks Sept, and orks Nov/Dec alongside an slaanesh release of all things.

A.T. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
FYI it looks like GW have taken steps to curb the Ork player's sentiments by releasing a pic of an Ork themed stand alone racing game.

Gorkamorka? (well, speed freaks, but same kind of thing)

I remember there being rumours months back that the late ork release were tied to that. Honestly a little surprised to see them pan out, a quick bit of googling indicates... wolves August, speedfreaks Sept, and orks Nov/Dec alongside an slaanesh release of all things.

I suspect it'll be Orks in early september with GSCs. the "orks in november" seems unlikely.

A.T. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
FYI it looks like GW have taken steps to curb the Ork player's sentiments by releasing a pic of an Ork themed stand alone racing game.

Gorkamorka? (well, speed freaks, but same kind of thing)

I remember there being rumours months back that the late ork release were tied to that. Honestly a little surprised to see them pan out, a quick bit of googling indicates... wolves August, speedfreaks Sept, and orks Nov/Dec alongside an slaanesh release of all things.

GAAAH! How long that "orks in november" bogus idea survives? That comes from "leak" that had release schedule that was proven wrong months ago already. According to that leak knights were up on august.

tneva82 wrote:
GAAAH! How long that "orks in november" bogus idea survives?

Until it does/doesn't happen I guess. I was just quoting the post where I had seen the gorkamorka rumours.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Remember when GW accidentally displayed Magnus and Morty before release? Nor me. It was on purpose,

yeah see, thing is space marine players didn't bitch whine and moan about "why aren't we getting info instead" nor did death guard players begrudge space marines their release.

Honestly this whole "ohh how dare GW release something for another army instead of mine" childishness is rediculas, yet you see it all the time, people just need to chill. this is no longer the days when you could go 2-3 editions without a codex. A year isn't that long to wait for something

I've asked for this before and it wasn't forthcoming then so I suspect it won't be now but please provide some evidence of all these Ork players 'bitching, whining and moaning about not getting info instead'. Please show me where an Ork player has said 'how dare GW release something for another army.instead of mine'?

I haven't seen it. You're complaining about a problem that only exists in your own mind.

Nobody complains that GSC is getting stuff. People complained that GW announced GSC stuff when people (rightfully) expected orky stuff to be announced. Now that we got Speed Freeks leaked out, tension is going to go down.

As for actual topic, ork community is not dropping, rather it is lurking. However if GW drops the ball with ork codex, it will demolish ork fanbase. Not whining or doomsaying, but rather stating a fact - a lot of people on reddit, tg, dakka, have said that if GW mistreats orks yet another time, they will just leave the hobby or stich army.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Remember when GW accidentally displayed Magnus and Morty before release? Nor me. It was on purpose,

yeah see, thing is space marine players didn't bitch whine and moan about "why aren't we getting info instead" nor did death guard players begrudge space marines their release.

Honestly this whole "ohh how dare GW release something for another army instead of mine" childishness is rediculas, yet you see it all the time, people just need to chill. this is no longer the days when you could go 2-3 editions without a codex. A year isn't that long to wait for something

I've asked for this before and it wasn't forthcoming then so I suspect it won't be now but please provide some evidence of all these Ork players 'bitching, whining and moaning about not getting info instead'. Please show me where an Ork player has said 'how dare GW release something for another army.instead of mine'?

I haven't seen it. You're complaining about a problem that only exists in your own mind.

at this point its the straw man they pull out to make many ork players look bad. when they should be pulling out a looted scar crow with mega rotor deffgun and a nice crab power claw to make orks look awesome.