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Thommy H wrote:Orks can build stuff that works. Their guns shoot, their buggies drive, their spaceships fly. If they just used their latent psychic energy to power their technology, there'd be no need for Meks' abilities to be encoded into their DNA

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Any official Ork model is only the beginning, any mek worth his teef knows that.

CAN I GET AN AMEN!? I have truly found my people. Brothers, may the sounds of your Waaagh drown out the noise.

I find myself in the tricky predicament of wanting it to be Orktober (or at least NoVa weekend) already, but time flies by fast enough as is, and I have a lot of work left to do before armies on parade...

...what is "unfortunate" about those Klan traits?

Those seem AMAZING! I'm drooling over +1mov, +1advance, +1 charge, rerolling charge, after advancing Evil sunz. Holy Guacalacashmackamole!

Well, it's unfortunate in my mind since as an almost exclusively vehicle based Evil Sunz player that trait doesn't seem to really have been aimed at improving those types of lists but instead hordes of footsloggers.

Or they had the right intent but in my opinion, poor execution. I'm not saying they're the worst thing in the world but they just feel a bit uninspired.

In the end I'm okay with it since the strats leaked seem super fun and hopefully also useful

PiñaColada wrote:
Well, it's unfortunate in my mind since as an almost exclusively vehicle based Evil Sunz player that trait doesn't seem to really have been aimed at improving those types of lists but instead hordes of footsloggers.

Or they had the right intent but in my opinion, poor execution. I'm not saying they're the worst thing in the world but they just feel a bit uninspired.

In the end I'm okay with it since the strats leaked seem super fun and hopefully also useful

Seems incredible for warbikes, stormboyz, new buggies (presumably most of their weaponry will be Assault weaponry and many look to have close combat oriented wargear), Trukks, Battlewagons...not sure what else you're looking for.

Sure, my thought at first glance is "well, I'm glad I have six Killa Kanz because those are gonna be awesome" but I'm also looking at all my other ES units and feeling like they'll be amazing as well.

Also, we haven't seen the stratagems for the subfactions. If evil sunz don't get a stratagem focusing around trukk-mounted units, I'll eat my hat.

PiñaColada wrote:
I also posted this in the ork rumours thread but in case anyone hasn't seen it:




I'll make some bullet points later if noone beats me to it. But some interesting stuff in here

The previous leaked clan traits seem to be true unfortunately..
No warboss, painboy or big mek on bike.
New wartrike model.
The squig buggies are actually named rockettrukk squig buggy
Ghaz is apparently amazing, don't know if it's a new model
There's a mekshop that buffs vehicles sort of like the forgeshrine for knights but this one seems good.
Dakkadakkadakka is an army wide rule, 6's generates extra shots.
Apparently the gorkanaut is amazing now.
KFF is now "wholly within" (presumably 9" but not stated)

There's a stratagem that lets orks keep 20 power level off the board and deepstrike in anywhere on the board more than 9" away from the enemy.
Green tide stratagem, Take a boyz unit under half strength and set it up wholly within 6" of table and more than 9" away from the enemy (Don't know if it also replenishes the unit ála tide of traitors)
Grot shield stratagem, when suffering a wound on a 2+ a grot unit within 3" suffers a wound instead. Grots have to be closer to the firing unit
Ramming speed stratagem, ork vehicles can charge 3d6" and does mortal wounds when it successfully charges
Long uncrontrolled bursts stratagem, add +1 for flyers against other flyers
Looted stratagem, ork infantry units gain +1 Save when a vehicle is destroyed near them.
Get stuck in stratagem, ork infantry can pile in and fight again in CC

I think everyone knew the grot shield was goingto become a strategem based off of KT. Keeping a Gork in reserve seems crazy. Any clue if it's 20 PL total or whether it has to be 1 unit?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Thommy H wrote:

 jeff white wrote:

Looks a bit too much like it may actually work, on its own,
without faith in Mork and Gork to move it along.

Ugh...this snippet of fluff is my pet hate in 40K. It only appeared in one Ork Codex, back in 3rd Edition IIRC, as one of those 'primary source' documents they were doing at the time, and it was speculation by a Magos Biologis declared a heretic for his borderline-admiration for Orks and their adaptability. I mean, it's broadly consistent with the way Ork psionics works, but it's basically just a joke that for some reason has survived to be repeated uncritically all over the internet. Every wiki treats it like it's some central aspect of Ork fluff when it's never even been mentioned since!

Orks can build stuff that works. Their guns shoot, their buggies drive, their spaceships fly. If they just used their latent psychic energy to power their technology, there'd be no need for Meks' abilities to be encoded into their DNA: they could just nail together bits of any old scrap and just have the Boyz used their mind bullets to kill the enemy.

*Grumble grumble rant rant*

Thank you!

There is a lot of "fluff" for 40K that is just hands down stupid, this is one of those pieces. Now if we could just get rid of the whole "humanity is afraid of technology" aspect.

Considering how advanced tech has a tendency of either getting possessed or going skynet, I think the fear of technology is warranted. Removing that element will also get rid of one the obvious dune references, which was one of the sources of inspiration for Warhammer 40k.

Where is their “humanity is afraid of technology” thing coming from? That’s not in the fluff at all.
The Imperium is bound by treaty to outsource all of its industry to the Adeptus Mechanicus and reciprocally bound to adhere to Adeptus Mechanicus’ rules regarding dissemination and use of technology. Specifically, “mess with it and die!”
Or, that’s how it works on Imperial crown worlds, where the Imperium itself is the primary authority.
Governed Worlds, the vast majority of planets in fact, are free to make and sell whatever so long as it is a sanctified design. Which usually amounts to the same thing, but there are worlds (like Necromunda, for example) where there are trillions of people living without even much local oversight, never mind Imperial, where if something doesn’t work, they will freely and happily make something that does.

The only problem is that they don’t have (and won’t be given, again thanks to the ruinous treaty with the Mechanicum) the fundamental education, nor the greater resources required to truly understand why that bit makes the burny light or how to improve it, even empirically, so they are limited in how far they go by the upper limit of the technology around them.
Even then, though, there are still exceptions; House Escher clearly has the equivalent of a doctoral research programme somewhere because they are constantly innovating new chemistry, particularly in the subtle art of poisons, and are very definitively not making an absolute mint out of refining Spook for House Helmawr because that would be illegal. And naughty. Similarly, though it’s difficult to tell if Van Saar really understand what they have but they must also have a high quality education programme too, because operating a broken STC unit can’t be easy - even just knowing what to ask for could be the work of a lifetime.

But yeah, humans (and the Imperium as an institution) don’t fear technology; they jusy have to defer to the Adeptus Mechanicus. And the Adeptus Mechanicus doesn’t ‘fear’ technology either; they have a religious doctrine against unbridled innovation (because incautious invention lets Chaos sneak in, but they’ve forgotten that) and an institutional jealousy of knowledge on a par with a dragon and its gold.

Should we start a new 40k ork rumour thread? While SF and the 40k release are obviously linked, they are two different games and strictly speaking the 40k stuff is off-topic on this thread.

mhalko1 wrote:

Spoiler:

PiñaColada wrote:
I also posted this in the ork rumours thread but in case anyone hasn't seen it:




I'll make some bullet points later if noone beats me to it. But some interesting stuff in here

The previous leaked clan traits seem to be true unfortunately..
No warboss, painboy or big mek on bike.
New wartrike model.
The squig buggies are actually named rockettrukk squig buggy
Ghaz is apparently amazing, don't know if it's a new model
There's a mekshop that buffs vehicles sort of like the forgeshrine for knights but this one seems good.
Dakkadakkadakka is an army wide rule, 6's generates extra shots.
Apparently the gorkanaut is amazing now.
KFF is now "wholly within" (presumably 9" but not stated)

There's a stratagem that lets orks keep 20 power level off the board and deepstrike in anywhere on the board more than 9" away from the enemy.
Green tide stratagem, Take a boyz unit under half strength and set it up wholly within 6" of table and more than 9" away from the enemy (Don't know if it also replenishes the unit ála tide of traitors)
Grot shield stratagem, when suffering a wound on a 2+ a grot unit within 3" suffers a wound instead. Grots have to be closer to the firing unit
Ramming speed stratagem, ork vehicles can charge 3d6" and does mortal wounds when it successfully charges
Long uncrontrolled bursts stratagem, add +1 for flyers against other flyers
Looted stratagem, ork infantry units gain +1 Save when a vehicle is destroyed near them.
Get stuck in stratagem, ork infantry can pile in and fight again in CC

I think everyone knew the grot shield was goingto become a strategem based off of KT. Keeping a Gork in reserve seems crazy. Any clue if it's 20 PL total or whether it has to be 1 unit?

The way he phrases it in the video makes it seem like it's just 20 PL total. But he's just reading this from an email he was sent, so maybe he's reading it incorrectly, maybe the guys who sent it was unclear in the text or maybe it's 20 PL in total. It's really difficult to say with any sort of certainty..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Should we start a new 40k ork rumour thread? While SF and the 40k release are obviously linked, they are two different games and strictly speaking the 40k stuff is off-topic on this thread.

I'm not sure if it's needed? Or rather, can't we just rename this to "Orktober" or something like that instead?

Indeed, not needed. I have altered the topic title so we can include both.

 Togusa wrote:

Thommy H wrote:

 jeff white wrote:

Looks a bit too much like it may actually work, on its own,
without faith in Mork and Gork to move it along.

Ugh...this snippet of fluff is my pet hate in 40K. It only appeared in one Ork Codex, back in 3rd Edition IIRC, as one of those 'primary source' documents they were doing at the time, and it was speculation by a Magos Biologis declared a heretic for his borderline-admiration for Orks and their adaptability. I mean, it's broadly consistent with the way Ork psionics works, but it's basically just a joke that for some reason has survived to be repeated uncritically all over the internet. Every wiki treats it like it's some central aspect of Ork fluff when it's never even been mentioned since!

Orks can build stuff that works. Their guns shoot, their buggies drive, their spaceships fly. If they just used their latent psychic energy to power their technology, there'd be no need for Meks' abilities to be encoded into their DNA: they could just nail together bits of any old scrap and just have the Boyz used their mind bullets to kill the enemy.

*Grumble grumble rant rant*

Thank you!

There is a lot of "fluff" for 40K that is just hands down stupid, this is one of those pieces. Now if we could just get rid of the whole "humanity is afraid of technology" aspect.

Mmm, yes, and why not also make the Imperium a secular democracy with equal rights for mutants(or "the differently bodied" as they will now be known) as well

So model wise, no Kommandos or Tankbustas?

The rumor is this case was only about units/ stats, not models. Those units already have stats and apparently didn’t change enough to warrant a mention, so this source wouldn’t know if new models were involved.

mortar_crew wrote:
So model wise, no Kommandos or Tankbustas?

These people (the leakers) were playtesters and as such wouldn't know. That's why they have no idea if Ghaz is a new model either. They could only leak the new buggies since those datasheets didn't exist earlier..

PiñaColada wrote:

mortar_crew wrote:
So model wise, no Kommandos or Tankbustas?

These people (the leakers) were playtesters and as such wouldn't know. That's why they have no idea if Ghaz is a new model either. They could only leak the new buggies since those datasheets didn't exist earlier..

Honestly if a unit got a new kit, the playtesters would be able to tell from the datasheet, as it would include new options and unique weapons.

mhalko1 wrote:

I think everyone knew the grot shield was goingto become a strategem based off of KT. Keeping a Gork in reserve seems crazy. Any clue if it's 20 PL total or whether it has to be 1 unit?

It seems crazy until you realize it\s expensive primarily h2h model that will come into useful position on turn 3, has 50-50 of making charge and if not and survives does something useful in T3 at which point games are generally already decided. Not sold on that idea. Deep strikes work in 8th mainly for shooty units.

tneva82 wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

I think everyone knew the grot shield was goingto become a strategem based off of KT. Keeping a Gork in reserve seems crazy. Any clue if it's 20 PL total or whether it has to be 1 unit?

It seems crazy until you realize it\s expensive primarily h2h model that will come into useful position on turn 3, has 50-50 of making charge and if not and survives does something useful in T3 at which point games are generally already decided. Not sold on that idea. Deep strikes work in 8th mainly for shooty units.

Well with the telyport stratagem you could do it T2, with an 8 inch charge (evil suns), rerolling for ere we go, and if you want making it a 3D6 charge with the ramming speed stratagem. Granted thats a big investment so it had better be a juciy target, but will at least be incredibly disruptive.

So orks are getting the following removed: Zzap Gunz, Kannons, Lobbaz, Warboss on warbike, Big Mek on warbike, Painboy on warbike.

And If they are removing them all this must mean Nob bikers too.

Are orks, following the codex release, the only faction ending with fewer playable models than we started with.

Get a move on GW you could have had these kits completed instead of removed and no one would have questioned you.

Cheated

Not Warboss on warbike!? Then I'll never get to paint my Wazdakka!? They even have a paint named after him!

 Oguhmek wrote:
Not Warboss on warbike!? Then I'll never get to paint my Wazdakka!? They even have a paint named after him!

I don't run special characters myself (never seemed right to have them in "my" army) but can't you run him as Wazdakka?

Or just do what I'm planning on doing, running wazdakka as my biker boss like I always have and just use the index.

Not Warboss on warbike!? Then I'll never get to paint my Wazdakka!? They even have a paint named after him!

They'd still exist in the index, just not in the codex. They just won't get updated rules. (as per other codexes with removed items that exist in the index)

 greggles wrote:

Not Warboss on warbike!? Then I'll never get to paint my Wazdakka!? They even have a paint named after him!

They'd still exist in the index, just not in the codex. They just won't get updated rules. (as per other codexes with removed items that exist in the index)

Yes, you'd still be able to use them. But surely this means that whenever 9th rolls around they'll actually be gone? It's sad but I've stated previously that the old HQ on warbikes might simply get ported to wartrikes. Let's hope

PiñaColada wrote:

 greggles wrote:

Not Warboss on warbike!? Then I'll never get to paint my Wazdakka!? They even have a paint named after him!

They'd still exist in the index, just not in the codex. They just won't get updated rules. (as per other codexes with removed items that exist in the index)

Yes, you'd still be able to use them. But surely this means that whenever 9th rolls around they'll actually be gone? It's sad but I've stated previously that the old HQ on warbikes might simply get ported to wartrikes. Let's hope

stuff goes in and out of existence with various editions. We got the shokk attack gun back after it was gone for more than a decade. gak, look at genestealer cults, I would have bet $100 they would never return to the game. A biker boss wouldn't be hard to see returning.

That assumes game changes enough for rules not work. Something that has happened in 3rd and 8th ed...

FW makes a bike boss and bike nobz tho, they have to be supported.

Dakka Dakka Dakka army wide seems crazy. As in free, and not a Stratagem?

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Dakka Dakka Dakka army wide seems crazy. As in free, and not a Stratagem?

I thought that too, but if its shots and not hits its not really that crazy. 1/6 chance to get a free shot, which then has a 1/3 chance of hitting aint game breaking. My main concern is that we lose (or get nerfed) in one of our existing army wide special rules to make up for it (ere we go/mob rule). Hearing this plus the lack of mob rule in KT worries me a bit

 lord_blackfang wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

mortar_crew wrote:
So model wise, no Kommandos or Tankbustas?

These people (the leakers) were playtesters and as such wouldn't know. That's why they have no idea if Ghaz is a new model either. They could only leak the new buggies since those datasheets didn't exist earlier..

Honestly if a unit got a new kit, the playtesters would be able to tell from the datasheet, as it would include new options and unique weapons.

Not if the options stay the same - like for Khârn or Eldrad etcetera.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Dakka Dakka Dakka army wide seems crazy. As in free, and not a Stratagem?

According to the rumour (which now seems pretty solid) yeah. But it's only giving a small boost to our generally underwhelming shooting and becomes near useless as soon as to-hit penalties come into play, which is apparently most competitive games now. Just seems to make the issues with BS 5+ worse, since we will be charged for it but may not really get to use it depending on what traits the enemy has.

"Zzap Gunz, Kannons, Lobbaz"




If (as I fear now) it is true. I am out plain and simple.
I don't care about rules or stratagems if I can't use the damn models.

These weapons have been the core of the ork artillery since what 2d edition?

Sorry to be negative even before the codex is out, but once again orks seems
to get screwed with the new book.

If the release confirm this, orks will be modelling only for me, period.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nuck Fewton wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

 greggles wrote:

Not Warboss on warbike!? Then I'll never get to paint my Wazdakka!? They even have a paint named after him!

They'd still exist in the index, just not in the codex. They just won't get updated rules. (as per other codexes with removed items that exist in the index)

Yes, you'd still be able to use them. But surely this means that whenever 9th rolls around they'll actually be gone? It's sad but I've stated previously that the old HQ on warbikes might simply get ported to wartrikes. Let's hope

stuff goes in and out of existence with various editions. We got the shokk attack gun back after it was gone for more than a decade. gak, look at genestealer cults, I would have bet $100 they would never return to the game. A biker boss wouldn't be hard to see returning.

True. But it looks like orks are always on the wrong end of the stick when it comes to rules and army list...

 ceorron wrote:
So orks are getting the following removed: Zzap Gunz, Kannons, Lobbaz, Warboss on warbike, Big Mek on warbike, Painboy on warbike.

And If they are removing them all this must mean Nob bikers too.

Are orks, following the codex release, the only faction ending with fewer playable models than we started with.

Get a move on GW you could have had these kits completed instead of removed and no one would have questioned you.

Cheated

Lots of codexes lost options from the index to the codex, not just Orks.