Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

tneva82 wrote:

I think they will come BUT they might not be kommando/tankbustas as we know them...Like upgraded "big guns" and upgraded "buggies".

In general, we've not seen a whole lot of "new" with book launches. Production really does seem to be their limiting factor at the moment. Hopefully that will be changing soon--I want to see some new Kommandos and Tankbustas(although I wouldn't be shocked to see these two in a dual build kit!).

GW is in a really weird spot right now with ork models. On one hand we have tons of old metal/finecast models which are super old, and on the other you have GW not wanting metal and finecast, but also cant just cut all those units because thats like half the codex

 Billagio wrote:
GW is in a really weird spot right now with ork models. On one hand we have tons of old metal/finecast models which are super old, and on the other you have GW not wanting metal and finecast, but also cant just cut all those units because thats like half the codex

They're in this situation with a lot of armies in AoS as well, it looks like we'll see a few new things here and there to add some 'wow' or 'omg i need these!'.

 Billagio wrote:
GW is in a really weird spot right now with ork models. On one hand we have tons of old metal/finecast models which are super old, and on the other you have GW not wanting metal and finecast, but also cant just cut all those units because thats like half the codex

Which is why we have them for a while but not forever. But GW doesn't release tons of new kits at once even if sculpts were done neccessarily. Look at eldar jetbikes that waited DECADE for their slot to come in. Tank busta replacement in plastic could be sculpted and done and just wait for suitable slot for release for all we know.

About only way I can see plastic tank bustas/kommandos that actually work as current tank busta/kommando is with dual with not together but with NEW unit. So you would have box of plastic tank bustas or alternative set up of completely new unit. Ditto for kommandos. Ala firewarriors who got new unit into kit when they were redone.

tneva82 wrote:


About only way I can see plastic tank bustas/kommandos that actually work as current tank busta/kommando is with dual with not together but with NEW unit. So you would have box of plastic tank bustas or alternative set up of completely new unit. Ditto for kommandos. Ala firewarriors who got new unit into kit when they were redone.

But thousand sons and plague marines didn't get new units in their kits, just a couple new wargear options. Tank bustas could easily be a kit with rokkits, rokkits pistols, tank hammera, kombi rokkits, and a new option like heavy rokkits or melta gun thing.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


About only way I can see plastic tank bustas/kommandos that actually work as current tank busta/kommando is with dual with not together but with NEW unit. So you would have box of plastic tank bustas or alternative set up of completely new unit. Ditto for kommandos. Ala firewarriors who got new unit into kit when they were redone.

But thousand sons and plague marines didn't get new units in their kits, just a couple new wargear options. Tank bustas could easily be a kit with rokkits, rokkits pistols, tank hammera, kombi rokkits, and a new option like heavy rokkits or melta gun thing.

True. But that was core unit for entire new faction which got new units to go with it ensuring GW gets new units to release. You anticipiating new faction with tank bustas/kommandos as core?-)

Also those did get new options like flamer weapon for ts. So as i said dual kit for unit and you could see them

tneva82 wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
GW is in a really weird spot right now with ork models. On one hand we have tons of old metal/finecast models which are super old, and on the other you have GW not wanting metal and finecast, but also cant just cut all those units because thats like half the codex

Which is why we have them for a while but not forever. But GW doesn't release tons of new kits at once even if sculpts were done neccessarily. Look at eldar jetbikes that waited DECADE for their slot to come in. Tank busta replacement in plastic could be sculpted and done and just wait for suitable slot for release for all we know.

About only way I can see plastic tank bustas/kommandos that actually work as current tank busta/kommando is with dual with not together but with NEW unit. So you would have box of plastic tank bustas or alternative set up of completely new unit. Ditto for kommandos. Ala firewarriors who got new unit into kit when they were redone.

As soon as they keep Kommandos and Tankbustas...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's why I don't see us ever getting plastic Kommandos/Tankbustas.

[EDIT]: Also, one thing to keep in mind, is that Kannons, Lobbaz and Zzapp guns are from the 'boring brown' period of the Orks, in that post-Gorkamorka 3rd Edition 40K era where orks were just Generic Goffs with nothing to make them interesting.

Consider they went from having Traktor Cannons, Splatter Cannons, Smasha Gunz, Squig catapults, Shokk Attack Gunz and Pulsa Rokkits to generic cannon, generic mortar, slightly temperamental lascannon. Such excitement. Much flavour. Wow.

I took a while for the colour of the Orks to brighten up, and for new models to revitalise the line.

I disagree with Big Gunz being boring. I do like Mek Gunz both in terms of the models and the crazy high tech that the orks are capable of. That said, I think orks pounding the enemy to dust under an unrelenting hail of high explosive shells to be really cool.

In my mind getting rid of Big Gunz because Mek Gunz are supposedly more flavorful would be like getting rid of sluggas and shootas because Kustom Mega weapons are more flavorful. I do think that Kustom Mega weapons are neat, but I prefer most of my orks to hose down the enemy with a fusilade of solid slugs from crude but brutally functional automatic weapons.

Yeah, I can see the point about third party manufacturers being able to make their own kannons and lobbas and it being hard for GW to sure them. I can understand that motivation for axing them, but just because I can understand it doesn't mean I have to like it at all from a consumer's perspective.

Also, it's funny that they actually had more flavorful rules in the 3rd Edition codex than in later codexes. They would often kill their own crew, and the zzap gun was more some kind of electric arc weapon than a lascannon (it auto-hit). The kannon and zzap guns were significantly more powerful weapons, but more fragile IIRC (I think the lobba was more or less the same in terms of power).

While I agree that overall early 3rd when the Ork codex came out things were pretty bland, but there were several units in that book (including Big Gunz, Burna Boyz and Warbikes) that ended up losing some flavor in later codexes, at least as far as rules go.

mortar_crew wrote:
As soon as they keep Kommandos and Tankbustas...

If they don't produce plastic versions sooner or later they are gone I'm affraid :(

BTW another reason I doubt we get tank busta/kommando dual kit. The kits are very different to each other. Not much parts really they share so unless they DOWNGRADE character of models by doing something like basically current boy+rokkit=tank busta, current boy+slugga&choppa+skarf head=kommando they wouldn't really work without giving kit that does BOTH. They might share maybe legs but GW has been moving away a lot from separate leg+torso in recent kits.

So we would likely end up much more generic less characterful kits that might not even be that much cheaper. Generally complains I hear are price and resin. Looks I don't hear much complains. Would existing ork players be rushing in to replace already owned models with plastic versions that look more generic and might not even be cheaper? I don't think so...Also GW would have to figure use for squigs for kommandos as well.

That's why I think if we get plastic versions it's 2 dual kits with alternative loadout for both. That way existing ork players would be buying the kit and not just new players. Also would allow them to keep tank bustas and kommandos visually different apart from just weapons.

Also means quite a long time to wait likely since it doesn't seem they come this time...

Okay, so my dumb brain is not to be trusted when it comes to calculating this stuff. But would the Bad Moons trait be somewhat worth it if the dakkadakkadakka rule is actually this:

During the shooting phase unmodified hit rolls of 6 always hit and in addition unmodified hit rolls of 6 causes 2 hits instead of 1?

I sort of doubt it myself although I hope that this is actually what the dakkadakkadakka rule is now. I understand that it's unlikely as it wasn't mentioned as being changed in the video but it's possible that either Kirioth didnn't know how it worked previously or that he simply read the name and assumed it was the same.

 ceorron wrote:

rtb02 wrote:

 ceorron wrote:
So orks are getting the following removed: Zzap Gunz, Kannons, Lobbaz, Warboss on warbike, Big Mek on warbike, Painboy on warbike.

Are orks, following the codex release, the only faction ending with fewer playable models than we started with.

Get a move on GW you could have had these kits completed instead of removed and no one would have questioned you.

Cheated

Nobody said anything about zzaps, lobbas or kannons apart from you...

Don't discount your chickens before the dex actually drops...

 ceorron wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Hopefully Big Gunz are gone, they're fething awful models and don't really have a place in the game anymore.

I don't hope for that, though they really need new models. I'm sure GW knows this, and so may remove them for that reason, making them battlewagon only. Still I would welcome their return as artillery pieces as they are really useful in the game, way better than the not so good (too random) mek gunz we got last time.

Or they may stay, time will tell. I have plenty of them and still use them time to time.

To quote myself it was "An Actual Englishman" that said it first!

Pedant.

He said they were hopefully gone. You said "Orks are getting the following removed". Very different statement and yours was baseless fear mongering.

Get rid of the generic stuff. Hangovers from third ed and not wanted.

rtb02 wrote:

Pedant.

He said they were hopefully gone. You said "Orks are getting the following removed". Very different statement and yours was baseless fear mongering.

Get rid of the generic stuff. Hangovers from third ed and not wanted.

I still want big guns. Removal of options always sad.

alos dont forget the defkopta. the only way we can see them in the codex is if they FINALLY take the aobr snap build defkopta into its own box. they can do it, they have done kits for easy fit kits recently (of course they are all new models from dethguard and primaris, but they can still make it, proved by the battle for vedros sets).

i have very fond memories of dekoptas, they were very useful in 7th for me and i had quite a few wins with combining them with zagstruk stormboy formation for msu deep strike shenanigans (very few people i fought knew how to deal with near null deployment orks,got me a few wins at a tourny, 7th sucked, but i had good memories).

Problem with deth koptas is that they are currently in plastic ONLY in that vedros sets which is complete sprue with OTHER stuff as well. So ATM they dont' have mould for just deth kopta. Ergo to make plastic deth kopta release they would have to do completely new mould which costs up quite a bit.

Thus I would say it's nearly 100% sure they won't do just the original plastic kit as separate sale. Nope. Ain't going to happen. If they release plastic deth kopta it will be new kit with possibly updated look and certainly more options and kit layout. GW won't spend money for new mould JUST to transfer the original model as is into it's own mould.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

rtb02 wrote:

Pedant.

He said they were hopefully gone. You said "Orks are getting the following removed". Very different statement and yours was baseless fear mongering.

Get rid of the generic stuff. Hangovers from third ed and not wanted.

I still want big guns. Removal of options always sad.

Same here.
I cannot agree more.

tneva82 wrote:
Problem with deth koptas is that they are currently in plastic ONLY in that vedros sets which is complete sprue with OTHER stuff as well. So ATM they dont' have mould for just deth kopta. Ergo to make plastic deth kopta release they would have to do completely new mould which costs up quite a bit.

Thus I would say it's nearly 100% sure they won't do just the original plastic kit as separate sale. Nope. Ain't going to happen. If they release plastic deth kopta it will be new kit with possibly updated look and certainly more options and kit layout. GW won't spend money for new mould JUST to transfer the original model as is into it's own mould.

The Deffkoptas got the new Big Bomm upgrade in the index, which is not reflected on the models. The can also have either Big Shootas or a KMB instead of the Rokkits (also not on the models). To me, this all definitely indicates a proper new multipart kit - I think we should just wait and see.

 Oguhmek wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Problem with deth koptas is that they are currently in plastic ONLY in that vedros sets which is complete sprue with OTHER stuff as well. So ATM they dont' have mould for just deth kopta. Ergo to make plastic deth kopta release they would have to do completely new mould which costs up quite a bit.

Thus I would say it's nearly 100% sure they won't do just the original plastic kit as separate sale. Nope. Ain't going to happen. If they release plastic deth kopta it will be new kit with possibly updated look and certainly more options and kit layout. GW won't spend money for new mould JUST to transfer the original model as is into it's own mould.

The Deffkoptas got the new Big Bomm upgrade in the index, which is not reflected on the models. The can also have either Big Shootas or a KMB instead of the Rokkits (also not on the models). To me, this all definitely indicates a proper new multipart kit - I think we should just wait and see.

those were all things it could get in the 7th codex as well. not really an indicator of a new kit if they just copied the same wargear from 7th...just like our characters on bikes, little changed between 7th and the index.

Huh, you're right - I thought at least the Big Bomm was new in the index, but that was wrong - it was the rule of it with the mortal wounds that was new, not the wargear itself.

I stand corrected.

That's slightly disappointing.

 Oguhmek wrote:
Huh, you're right - I thought at least the Big Bomm was new in the index, but that was wrong - it was the rule of it with the mortal wounds that was new, not the wargear itself.

I stand corrected.

That's slightly disappointing.

i know. i loved the defkopta. i had fun conversions of the ones with buzzsaws and acted like nobs in the squad of normal koptas (conversion used small zeon suit models and they looked like looted tau suits into some nasty cyborks). if the defkopta is left in the index and gets no good price decreases in chapter approved then ill just magnetize 2 defkoptas on a flyer base and run it as counts as a warkopta (or maybe a dakkajet) for friendly games.

Well good thing is they still sell the kit so should stay in codex though how much improvement it gets.

All I'm saying is that don't expect just old kit in own kit. If it comes in plastic it's going to be whole new kit and likely improved one with more options. So it would be BETTER than having current kit on it's own and wouldnt' even cost much more to GW either way(as the mould is where cost comes from which they would have to produce anyway)

Koptas have been able to take big bomms since at least 4th edition - they just never were worth taking before.

tneva82 wrote:
Problem with deth koptas is that they are currently in plastic ONLY in that vedros sets which is complete sprue with OTHER stuff as well. So ATM they dont' have mould for just deth kopta. Ergo to make plastic deth kopta release they would have to do completely new mould which costs up quite a bit.

Before the Knights codex I would have said the same. But they really did end up making a new sprue of copy/pasted bits from various terrain kits for the Forge Shrine, didn't they?

AFAIK the forge shrine mostly consists of sprues that are also used for the mechanicum terrain. Our local knights player just build the round terrain piece from it instead of the shrine of failure.

I think if they could have done that with the AOBR koptas, they already would have.

The only thing we have seen from that area is sprues with bits removed. I don't remember the AOBR sprues well, but IIRC the koptas were all over the place, mixed with both nob and boyz sparts.

And shrine is completely new unit that didn't exist(albeit rules so bad nobody wants to field...) so in case of deth kopta's that would be like taking bits of deth kopta, bits of something else, combine and have some other non-deth kopta unit instead. Not 100% comparable.

Now albeit it's possible they could do that but seeing for about same price they could redesign kit and add new options and thus sell new kit for existing ork players as well as new I have hard time imagining GW doing just new mould of existing kit with no changes.

well, maybe they can do a kit of "defkopta and a nob and a boyz arm" best marketing ever.

10/10 would buy.

I just donate 50+ boyz arms to a chaos player wanting to convert a giant chaos spawn out of them

I have hundreds of extra arms and heads and torsos - I wish they'd make a box of legs - running, kneeling, jumping, sneaking etc. That would be useful.

 Jidmah wrote:
10/10 would buy.

I just donate 50+ boyz arms to a chaos player wanting to convert a giant chaos spawn out of them

they call it "one demon army"

rtb02 wrote:


Pedant.

He said they were hopefully gone. You said "Orks are getting the following removed". Very different statement and yours was baseless fear mongering.

Get rid of the generic stuff. Hangovers from third ed and not wanted.

It's not pedantic if it's true.

If you read the whole thread, big gunz, warboss/big mek/painboy/nobz on bike as well as kommandos/tankbusters are absolutely wanted,

People have these in their armies and so obviously don't want to see them go.

 ceorron wrote:

rtb02 wrote:


If you read the whole thread, big gunz, warboss/big mek/painboy/nobz on bike as well as kommandos/tankbusters are absolutely wanted,

People have these in their armies and so obviously don't want to see them go.

That pretty sums it up for me.

I have these, plenty of them, and no new kit or rule will justify them being removed, period.

Keep them, and I welcome any new kit or rule.
That's simple.