Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

That easyness depends on how you base. For me would require cutting thin cardboard pieces for specific sizes but not in same so almost custom sized several per base...

Ragnar69 wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
If someone is worried about rebasing to 32mm, they should check this out:

http://eccentricminiatures.com/adapterrings.html

I used them for my marines and they look good even if you don't paint them. Cheaper than new bases as well.

Thats only an option if you dont care much how the army looks.

No, not all all. First, a black rim around a nice base looks surprisingly good and second it is really easy to paint/flock/do whatever the ring the same as the rest of your base. You won't see a difference to a normal 32mm base.

I really dont agree that a black rim looks good, with bases made to match a terrain board a full mob of orks will look really daft. It is just as much work with sand, stones, paints, grass and tufts to blend the rims as it is to rebase the whole model.

Switchin base size is a terrible idea and it is bloody annoying, besides the aestethic it is also a stealth nerf to orks.

The only issue I've seen for the base adapters is that alot of the damn Orks have half their feet sticking off the bases. You need to start to trim away at their clunky boots to slide the adapter under.

Now, I'm probably going to end up doing just that (for my own OCD), but it isn't gonna be as easy as it seems.

Luckily it's not required and somebody makes a fuss is free to not play with me. I won't waste time playing with tfg's

You can bet your pretty, little, hard-to-cut heads that the board is 22x30 or a multiple thereof.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
You can bet your pretty, little, hard-to-cut heads that the board is 22x30 or a multiple thereof.

I'd be stoked if it's 22x30 since we can use it for Kill Team without having to measure up that area every time then

I for one rebase everything bare grotz on 32mm bases.
Much better looking in my opinion.

Don't care that much about the nerf thing...

Rebase my boys up to 32's? Never going to happen.
32MM bases for boys is the devil.

I did decide my burnas and lootas would be better off on 32MM bases and just got a package of 100 for maybe 1$5.00 usd from china. Unfortunately I may not have ordered enough for all of them. I've no idea how many of both I have in total I stopped counting at "lots". If I am lucky the headache will pas some time this week.. good news it's Friday!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
You can bet your pretty, little, hard-to-cut heads that the board is 22x30 or a multiple thereof.

Well if you look at the photo of the contents - the speed freeks book is going to be 11 inches high if that's a normal GW booklet size. It looks to be from the looks of the bases.

It doesnt look like one quarter of the board fits one length of that into it like a kill team board does - and the board seems to have obvious lines on it that split it into quarters, so fancy folding to get 6 pieces and still fit into a standard box doesn't seem possible.

mortar_crew wrote:
I for one rebase everything bare grotz on 32mm bases.
Much better looking in my opinion.

Don't care that much about the nerf thing...

Im planning on rebasing my grots and nothing else to 32s so maybe we can swap!

Lots of people here who don't use their Orks on the original Gorkamorka bases.

(I did cheat and blu-tac mine to 2p pieces for stability, which is about right)

Can someone tell me why these buggies would have a base? since other ork vehicles and the previous buggy don't?

 tkrettler91 wrote:
Can someone tell me why these buggies would have a base? since other ork vehicles and the previous buggy don't?

GW decides giving them stealth nerf before they are even released.

Or maybe bases are more relevant in the speed freek game.

tneva82 wrote:

 tkrettler91 wrote:
Can someone tell me why these buggies would have a base? since other ork vehicles and the previous buggy don't?

GW decides giving them stealth nerf before they are even released.

Or maybe bases are more relevant in the speed freek game.

Save scratching the underneath of the models on the paintwork. Also I can imagine that bases allow for more dynamic poses; jumping over ruins etc.

 tkrettler91 wrote:
Can someone tell me why these buggies would have a base? since other ork vehicles and the previous buggy don't?

Based models, especially ones with as many blitz and spikes as a buggy are easier to measure to.

Once the idiotic assault in terrain rules are gone, it will be all upside.

Someone mentioned this briefly a few pages back or perhaps in a different thread:

20 Boyz in a BW, on 32mm bases. Unless you're completely clear of other friendly/enemy models nearby and terrain - have fun unloading them legally.

Also things like Da Jump (or the rumoured teleport stratagem) setting up 30(or mobbed up 40) Boyz 9" away from enemy / within 6" (i think?) of table edge. That gets a whole lot harder to do legally on 32mm.

Not to mention we've come from a meta of 150-200 boyz. Fitting them on table, attempting to cover with KFF. Becomes a much more difficult logistical task.

Also there would be no differentiation between the 'horde' units of boyz and more elite units within Orks or in other factions.

To me (and probably those with much common sense) it sounds absolutely ludicrous to change from 25 >> 32mm... So... GW will probably do it!

 Whirlwind wrote:

Save scratching the underneath of the models on the paintwork. Also I can imagine that bases allow for more dynamic poses; jumping over ruins etc.

I very much doubt these new buggies are posed much jumping over ruins...

(and you will possibly get accused of modeling for advantage if you do!)

No way im re basing. Most of my boys are AOBR and have that little slot at their feet that goes into the base. I would have to cut that off, too much work over 200 models

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Aaah. But aren't you completely ignoring durability? Aren't you also ignoring synergies between units and things that actually effect games (like cover, LOS etc)? It seems to me you are.

Wait until Orks have their codex before you pillage our rules. The 'always hit on a 6' will not be the fix you think it is, even if its made global.

The proper fix to this problem is to stop -1 to hit modifiers stacking. God knows the factions with -1 to hit need a nerf.

*sigh*
Your point about durability is moot given the context of the conversation. The other guy was throwing out percentages without considering points costs at all. Things like marines being twice as shooty despite having fewer models and shots.

I never said 6s always hit will be some magical fix, but it is an important failsafe mechanic just in case. If I play my tau, and decide to move my markerlights against -2 to hit... then I don't get to hit at all. Or how about my gun/recon/sniper drones that have BS 5+? This problem has come up in armies other than orks, so stop being greedy.

If -1 to hits don't stack then ghostkeel drones become useless since that's literally the only thing they do.

And yes, factions should not have army wide -1 to hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
But on the other hand, Orks will never suffer more than a 50% loss of firepower ever, while guard and tau can easily lose 66% and marines with some prodding can lose 75% firepower. (assuming always hits on 6s)

As explained above, anything above -2 to hit is incredibly rare and can only be done on very few units in the first place and is usually limited to one or two on the entire battlefield or even to once per battle.

My whole point was that 6s always hits would benefit orks the most. Against something like -2 to hit, orks don't care but Tau are still very much affected. So I don't see what's the big deal with making it a universal rule.

Dandelion wrote:
I never said 6s always hit will be some magical fix, but it is an important failsafe mechanic just in case. If I play my tau, and decide to move my markerlights against -2 to hit... then I don't get to hit at all. Or how about my gun/recon/sniper drones that have BS 5+? This problem has come up in armies other than orks, so stop being greedy.

How often did your tau army have zero units that could shoot any enemy model, despite 1k+ points of shooting units being left on the board? An allitoc army fielding their rangers, hemlocks and wave serpents is not uncommon at all. The hemlocks can take out most of your big guns/mek guns in one turn, leaving you with nothing but BS5+ models. Even if they don't, 2 CP makes the first target you shoot immune as well in response to you declaring shots. Tank bustas can't hit them at all, lootaz can't hit them, buggies can't hit them, koptas can't hit them, nauts can't hit them, stompas can't hit them, no other anti-tank weapon can. An autarch or farseer with the proper relic doesn't need to care for character protection, because nothing can hit him from outside 12" anyways, wave serpents move onto objectives, their passengers can be buffed to -2 with a warlock.
You basically skip your shooting phase until you are within 12".

The only BS4 units we have are gretchin (who don't kill gak shooting), big guns/mek guns, kanz, dakkajet, flash gits and Badrukk. This -2 to hit problem completely invalidates every other shooting option.

The issue is not some units not being able to shoot some models und certain circumstances. The issue is an entire army not being able to shot another entire army, despite spending lots of points on dedicated shooting units.
No other army has this problem, Tau have commanders and hammerheads that can still kill things with -2 to hit, nids have tyrants and hive guard, AM has tank commanders and veterans. Most of them even have access to some characters with decent 2+ shooting. Orks have... nothing.

So no, the problem has not come up with other armies. If you want to hit an allaitoc wave sperpent with your markerlight, don't move it.

 Billagio wrote:
I’ve never seen so many ork players butthurt over a rule that benefits them

I don't think any of the ork players here are butthurt we are defending our rule from people who say it's either OP or want it for every army.

Dandelion wrote:
My whole point was that 6s always hits would benefit orks the most. Against something like -2 to hit, orks don't care but Tau are still very much affected. So I don't see what's the big deal with making it a universal rule.

-2 to hit still costs 50% of our shooting. Tau lose more on their BS4 models, but equal or less on others.

Tau(or anyone else) simply don't need the "always hit on six" rule because they never face the issue of an entire army being unable to shoot due to modifiers. There is no need for moving, fully degraded artillery tanks being able to hit stealth bombers.

Dandelion wrote:
*sigh*
Your point about durability is moot given the context of the conversation. The other guy was throwing out percentages without considering points costs at all. Things like marines being twice as shooty despite having fewer models and shots.

I never said 6s always hit will be some magical fix, but it is an important failsafe mechanic just in case. If I play my tau, and decide to move my markerlights against -2 to hit... then I don't get to hit at all. Or how about my gun/recon/sniper drones that have BS 5+? This problem has come up in armies other than orks, so stop being greedy.

If -1 to hits don't stack then ghostkeel drones become useless since that's literally the only thing they do.

If you want to discuss the full positives and negatives of a unit you need to consider durability, I'm afraid. If you're considering points costs and output you are into considering all aspects of the model territory. Ignoring the aspects of a unit that don't suit your argument is not a good way to prove your point.

I'm not too worried about your drones to be honest. Is there anything else in your dex that has 5+ BS? The majority of our shooting units have it and hence why the fix was required. Don't mistake it for greed, your drones simply don't need the fix when the rest of your army has no issue.

I guess ghostkeel drones need a new purpose then?

 Jidmah wrote:
How often did your tau army have zero units that could shoot any enemy model, despite 1k+ points of shooting units being left on the board? An allitoc army fielding their rangers, hemlocks and wave serpents is not uncommon at all....... If you want to hit an allaitoc wave sperpent with your markerlight, don't move it.

Mic drop.

mhalko1 wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
I’ve never seen so many ork players butthurt over a rule that benefits them

I don't think any of the ork players here are butthurt we are defending our rule from people who say it's either OP or want it for every army.

To be fair, "6s always hit" is something that really should have been a core mechanic. I'll argue that until I'm blue in the face.

I'm fine with Orks getting something extra for 6s though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
My whole point was that 6s always hits would benefit orks the most. Against something like -2 to hit, orks don't care but Tau are still very much affected. So I don't see what's the big deal with making it a universal rule.

-2 to hit still costs 50% of our shooting. Tau lose more on their BS4 models, but equal or less on others.

Tau(or anyone else) simply don't need the "always hit on six" rule because they never face the issue of an entire army being unable to shoot due to modifiers. There is no need for moving, fully degraded artillery tanks being able to hit stealth bombers.

There's no need for "stealth" bombers. Hemlocks and Wraithfighters aren't stealth bombers anyways, it's literally just an interaction between the Craftworld trait and the Flyer's special rule.
Remove one or the other and boom, that fixes a lot of issues with those things.

That said, he's not wrong. 6s always hitting as a universal rule isn't unreasonable.

Yeah I really hope they don't change the base size for orks because I know for a fact I won't do it on account of how much work it would be to manually go through and rebase every ork on top of how expensive that would add up to be. I don't want to have the conversation every single game about my base sizes with Orks. It was annoying enough with basic marines, but the base difference for them was rather minor, but the size increases would be a massive hit for ork green tides reducing you from fighting in four ranks to just two. Base size really matters here.

On top of everything that's been discussed, those other armies have multiple, easy, ways of getting +1 to-hits; each in their own ways.

Also, we keep talking about total number of HITS. I feel that if we're not picking targets and calculating wounds/armor saves/FNP; we're only seeing half of the equation.

You're absolutely right that points costs need to be taken into account when comparing numbers, but...

...so too do weapon stats. Orks HAVE to keep moving forward, they have no way to gunline outside of Grots. The vast majority of their weapons are 24" or shorter; which means you're always moving, as well as potentially advancing; which is to say most weapons will also be getting an innate -1 just for trying to be used. That sucks when you're BS5+ and have no other ways to get accuracy increases.

Hitting on 6's flatly was NEEDED for an Ork army to even try and function.

Edit: With regards to the rest of the thread:
1) I don't plan to rebase to 32mm - it'd be a lot of work; but far more importantly, it'd have gameplay implications for how many Boyz you can get in a melee/easily deploy.
2) "Always hits on 6's" absolutely should have been a core rule, as a counter to "Always misses on 1's" (and to stop -X to-hit stacking too far).

 tkrettler91 wrote:
Can someone tell me why these buggies would have a base? since other ork vehicles and the previous buggy don't?

They talked about Speed Freaks at the Warhammer fest two weeks ago and appearently there was just one simple reason:

They are kinda small in comparison to the bikes since they are very flat. So they went for the bases to add a little bit of height.

@ Jidmah and Englishman

If other armies don't "need" 6s to hit then why in the world are you against it? If it's so minor why fight it at all? That's what I don't get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

fe40k wrote:
On top of everything that's been discussed, those other armies have multiple, easy, ways of getting +1 to-hits; each in their own ways.

Also, we keep talking about total number of HITS. I feel that if we're not picking targets and calculating wounds/armor saves/FNP; we're only seeing half of the equation.

You're absolutely right that points costs need to be taken into account when comparing numbers, but...

...so too do weapon stats. Orks HAVE to keep moving forward, they have no way to gunline outside of Grots. The vast majority of their weapons are 24" or shorter; which means you're always moving, as well as potentially advancing; which is to say most weapons will also be getting an innate -1 just for trying to be used. That sucks when you're BS5+ and have no other ways to get accuracy increases.

Hitting on 6's flatly was NEEDED for an Ork army to even try and function.

No one is arguing that orks didn't need the 6s always hit. I just wanted to point out that: A) it should be a core rule and B) ork shooting isn't necessarily garbage since point costs and weapon profiles can and will change.
Stop trying to make this anything other than that.

I don't think they'll rebase the boyz, but they might do that with nobz. Since Meganobz and Flash Gitz are on 40mm bases (and the latter is designed to be compatible with the nobz) it would make sense for bigger orks to be on bigger bases. Plus conversions of nobz with FG bodies that are on 40mm bases would be more common and legit.

Dandelion wrote:
@ Jidmah and Englishman

If other armies don't "need" 6s to hit then why in the world are you against it? If it's so minor why fight it at all? That's what I don't get.

Same attitude why certain people wanted wraithknight nerfed into total useless garbage. Revenge.