Ork News & Rumors - New Codex, Speed Freeks,Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy revealed

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**Jidmah**

stonehorse wrote:
Jidmah wrote:

This is why it is poor game design.

Sorry, but your argument is "this is poor game design because it is poor game design".

Yes, because that is the crunch of my argument. [/Sarcasm]

If we look at Kill Team we see that they (the design team) added that a natural 1 is a miss and a natural 6 is a hit, for all players, thus creating a level playing field. GW have a history of trying out new ideas in games to see what stick and then later incorporating them into their core mechanics.

This reminds me why I try to stay clear of these types of discussions on DakkaDakka. I'll leave with this, arguing here is not going to influence GW's game design team.

Have you actually played kill team? It has so many negative modifiers that most times no one would be able to shoot anything unless sixes always hit, shooting at -2 to is the norm.
In 40k most shots are done at +-0, or -1.

It's a completely different game.

You have not provided any argument besides "It's good game design because it's good game design". If you don't want to discuss this further, that's fine with me. I will just conclude that you have nothing to back up your claims.

**Dandelion**

geargutz wrote:
Dandelion wrote:

The amount of people who don't care to read, and more importantly understand, is staggering. You see, NO ONE is complaining that Orks hit on 6s. NO ONE.
A couple people made some comments on how it'd be nice for the game if every faction could hit on 6s as a core rule. Then... it all began.

Ork players started showing their true colors, claiming that they, and only they, are deserving of this most grandiose rule. Never mind that other factions have had similar problems, though to a lesser extent. Apparently, they just don't care and they label any who would bring to light similarly maligned units as a cry baby. They only care about themselves and their faction and it is THAT attitude that irks me.

Pure hypocrisy.

I'm leaving before I burst a blood vessel from the contradictions and entitlement. Any sympathy I had for Ork players just evaporated because of this thread.

Good day.

arnt ork true colors green, because green is best, and isnt green envy or some other thing

feel free to leave. now i try to keep form making this type of comment because i myself am not a fan of the "if you dont like it then dont participate" argument, but ill make an exception here.

to make the claim that you no longer care for other ork players because of a single thread? inst that just a little extreme?

you can ignore the many ork players in this thread with reasonable arguments, or you can cheery pick out the unreasonable ones...and that shows more about you then you realize. you were looking for the bad, when ive seen the good. your entitled to your opinon and we are entitled to ours, you just decided you opinion would paint the whole of ork players on this forum (heck, you make it sound like you no longer care for any ork player that doesn't happen to be you) . that is an extreme generalization. its fine to be extreme here, as its part of the anonymous internet, just dont be surprised to be lambasted by all the ork players you have lost all sympathy for.

so let me start...ahem.

zog off.

Disagreement is fine, however my comment was more directed at the following:

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
stonehorse wrote:
Jidmah wrote:

This is why it is poor game design.

Sorry, but your argument is "this is poor game design because it is poor game design".

Yes, because that is the crunch of my argument. [/Sarcasm]

If we look at Kill Team we see that they (the design team) added that a natural 1 is a miss and a natural 6 is a hit, for all players, thus creating a level playing field. GW have a history of trying out new ideas in games to see what stick and then later incorporating them into their core mechanics.

This reminds me why I try to stay clear of these types of discussions on DakkaDakka. I'll leave with this, arguing here is not going to influence GW's game design team.

Have you actually played kill team? It has so many negative modifiers that most times no one would be able to shoot anything unless sixes always hit, shooting at -2 to is the norm.
In 40k most shots are done at +-0, or -1.

It's a completely different game.

You have not provided any argument besides "It's good game design because it's good game design". If you don't want to discuss this further, that's fine with me. I will just conclude that you have nothing to back up your claims.

6s should always hit because at no point should it be physically impossible to complete an attack against another model.

**lord_blackfang**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Davor wrote:
I have been seeing the word Orktober just like Nidvember for so long and not being true I just thought this was for Speed Freaks.
After that comes the Summer of Flyers.

**geargutz**

Dandelion wrote:

Now, maybe I've misunderstood them, but I'm getting the inescapable feeling that they dismiss valid concerns as not worth their time, and sometimes enjoy it out of spite. There's also the mix-in of the casual condescension at times.
Granted, this does not represent the ork community as a whole, and my comment tended towards hyperbole, but it's still not a good showing.

well, i guess if those are the comments that influence you to generalize all ork players then i cant really argue with that....sarcasm.

Spoiler:

you know what happens when i see a few comments that make me mad....i might retort, but i soon brush it off and dont label the entirety of a fanbase for a few people. if this was the case then i would be too scared to be a fan of MLP or steven universe. how am i able to do this, i grew a thicker skin.

these comments are all from jaded ork players. i cant blame them, im jaded too. many other armies have had their time in the sun and when we get a nice thing then all of the sudden alot of people are like "we should share...because ethics or something". maybe everyone should have a clan trait that is -1 to hit so we all can feel included while we are at it, maybe we all should get legacy warlord traits, maybe we all should get a guiliman model with the same rules?

truth is, would it be so bad if everyone got "always hit on 6s", not really, only very few will end up benefiting from it (as many have said, we are pretty much the only faction that really benefits form this)....and then we orks didn't get any real benefit from DDD. our army wide rule is now game wide and the only other thing we get out of our codex DDD rule is we get to roll extra dice for those 1/6 Chance of rolling a six (and the rolled dice will also have to get past our ballistic skill to be even useful).

someones op unit from last edition (that cromped so many of our own armies) gets nerfed? good riddance. you could take the moral highground of "eye for an eye makes the world blind" or some other hippy squig dung, but at the end of the day we all play a game that is all about fighting our armies against each other, and we have been the punching bag too often, what advantage we get we should hold, and if its distributed to others then i would hope GW would give us a little extra more to compensate.

if our codex comes out and we are the most op thing ever to exist, then we will get some fun games in, relish in the tears of our enemies and then get a Little miffed when the nerf bat comes down. we deserve some good treatment after we have been loyal fans and paying customers for these many years, we dont have to accept our lot as abused cannon fodder.

and if i was a player form another faction that got the nerf bat, but i had enjoyed the time in the sun for whole entire editions then maybe i should be more gracious to the low man on the totem pole finally getting his chance to shine and giving me a good opportunity to flex my ability to make an actual well thought out list.

whew, rant over. tldr: maybe some of that was ad homnum attacks. but the point is that we ork players are justified in being cheeky about getting our new buffs.

**Jidmah**

Dandelion wrote:
6s should always hit because at no point should it be physically impossible to complete an attack against another model.

Why not? No one has provided a single reason for this except "it's bad game design". In an argument, you need to back up your claims.

For most models, it's already impossible to shoot characters (or models with similar protection) behind other units and it's impossible to shoot models out of line of sight.

-3 to hit or higher does not exist outside of very few corner cases, it's not any different from gretchin crew or DG's cloud of flies stratagem.

I also love how you get mad over this comment:

Tau(or anyone else) simply don't need the "always hit on six" rule because they never face the issue of an entire army being unable to shoot due to modifiers. There is no need for moving, fully degraded artillery tanks being able to hit stealth bombers.

It's a perfectly valid reason for sixes to not always hit. A basilisk holds still all game to maximize its shooting output, just like an artillery tank should. With "sixes always hit" a basilisk that has had large chunks of its armor blown off suddenly starts move about like a mobile gun platform and take shots at a passing voidraven bomber and has the same chance to hit them as it has to hit infantry out in the open.

I don't dismiss your concerns, I have provided arguments and proof to why your concerns simply aren't justified. No other army suffers the same from -2 to hit as orks does, so no other army needs to hit on sixes by default.
Feel free to provide counter-arguments and back them up. That's how discussions are supposed to work.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Dandelion wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dandelion wrote:
Dandelion wrote:
I've learned to expect nothing from others when it comes to an honest discussion, at least online.

Honest discussion? I already told you my reasoning. I simply don't feel bad because only a Guard player would complain about it.

I play Orks too you walnut. Besides, this whole guard apologist angle stems from your misunderstanding of my mockery of your (and others) arguments. Which makes me believe you do not read to understand, only to refute with a quipy one liner and an ad hominem. Which is why an honest discussion is impossible.

Trying to quote fallacies isn't gonna make anyone think you're smarter in this argument.

The concern is NOT legitimate. Nobody cares about the negative modifiers besides Guard players that want to camp and do nothing but shoot. Orks are the only army in the fluff where this rule makes sense. Natural 6 shouldn't always be a success; look at how many people argue about the current wounding chart.

**Nym**

Guys, take your arguments elsewhere please. Open a thread in General if you want to talk about 6's always hitting. It's getting tiresome to come here and to see no new rumors, just people standing their ground forever on things completely unrelated to Orks rumors.

**frozenwastes**

I don't know why, but I only now noticed that Speed Freeks has blinds so you can set your maneuvers like X-Wing does with dials.

A one and done X-Wing type game where they aren't trying to constantly jam in another ship with upgrade cards sounds great. I was planning on getting it for the miniatures, but I'm thinking there's potential for a really solid game here. Though taking just the starter and every ship in wave 1 of X-Wing still gets broken by upgrade card combos. Hopefully there's not too much in the way of upgrade/combo potential here.

Spoiler:

Doesn't look like it. There are a couple decks of cards at the top, but they're not laid out like they're upgrades to the stat cards. Maybe they're damage and special event cards or something.

**lord_blackfang**

The dasboard has 3 dice, and each side has 4 vehicles, so it can't be a manoeuvre selector. Also the dice have a shield, arrow and lightning icon.

**geargutz**

fair enough, back to main topic.

lord_blackfang wrote:
The dasboard has 3 dice, and each side has 4 vehicles, so it can't be a manoeuvre selector. Also the dice have a shield, arrow and lightning icon.

the 3 spots are probably attributes like speed, atk, and defense. screen is there so you and your opponent can select these 3 abilities with what you rolled so not to plan against each other and then as the turn rolls out you can put out a dice for each of your vehicles depending on what you had available in the relevant stat. (4 dice per attribute, a dice per vehicle. not sure how this will work if there is a system to get more vehicles, use all the dice in the box and hope your opponent bought their own full speedfreeks game?).

either way it seems like a fun randum game (probably simple enough rules for quick play) of cat and mouse....but the tom and jerry kind where great bodily harm is guaranteed....and dakka of course

**Danny76**

Irbis wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
One - Time/effort/money. Each model would have to be changed and new bases bought etc and the work to redo them all, I need to be working on unpainted minis...

Yeah, because clipping the sides of a base and gluing it on top of bigger one or simply using the enlarging adapting rings is really time and money consuming, and totally not takes less than a hour and a few $ for even a big army (just wait for base bag sales on ebay). Hell, even if you were then PVA the rim and re-sand or re-flock it for uniformity it's still less than a day job...

I mean, way to make an assumption about someone else’s life.
I don’t have the time, I told you that. I didn’t say no one can do it.
I’m slow at painting and modelling, and don’t get much time for it, let alone playing.
I have a one year old to invest my time in (oh, you or someone else has a kid too and still has the time to rebase - great for them, I’m not you/them).
My hobby money is limited, so buying that stuff still costs where I don’t want to invest.

But hey, you don’t need to worry, you’ll never play me, so let me have my opinion on rebasing.

And on the Official bass size, despite you citing AoS which is irrelevant (albeit yes for now, I agree most stuff ports over), they did also say that GW tournaments and games themselves have no official size, not even what comes in box, and it’s all just a guide.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the topic and exciting happiness of the new book:
I do hope that it isn’t all pushed towards the new vehicles, and green tide gets a good showing, and boys in trukks etc

**Rogerio134134**

Found 20 Ork Boyz in a box in my garage and my mate gave me bits for a load.more.... looks like green is on the menu boyz

**TedNugent**

Can you guys please take the sour grapes outside for a minute.

**Dandelion**

Never mind, I won't clog this up further.

**adamsouza**

Either/Or wrote:
People with more math hammer than me: Does the Dakkadakka rule make the rumored bad moons re-roll ones rule worthwhile, or is it still not so hot compared to the others?.

Orks roll 1's 16.6% of the time.
Orks hit on a 5+ 33.3% of the time.
Orks hitting on a 5+ rerolling 1's hit 39%

Orks hitting on a 6+ 16.6% of the time
Orks hitting on a 6+ rerolling 1's hit 19.4%

**Vineheart01**

Which considering the amount of dice we throw, its pretty significant imo.

**backlash13**

adamsouza wrote:
Either/Or wrote:
People with more math hammer than me: Does the Dakkadakka rule make the rumored bad moons re-roll ones rule worthwhile, or is it still not so hot compared to the others?.

Orks roll 1's 16.6% of the time.
Orks hit on a 5+ 33.3% of the time.
Orks hitting on a 5+ rerolling 1's hit 39%

Orks hitting on a 6+ 16.6% of the time
Orks hitting on a 6+ rerolling 1's hit 19.4%

and then you factor in the extra shots generated by those 6's.....

**PiñaColada**

Yeah, if you're hitting on 5's rerolling 1's alongside dakkdakkadakka it's actually pretty good. KMK's though, might become downright scary

**adamsouza**

backlash13 wrote:
and then you factor in the extra shots generated by those 6's.....

Hadn't seen the DAKKA DAKKA rule when I posted that

Orks roll 1's 16.6% of the time.
Orks roll 6's 16.6% of the time.

Orks hit on a 5+ 33.3% of the time.
Orks hitting on a 5+ rerolling 1's hit 39%

16.6% of attacks generate an additional hit that then hits 33.3% so an additional increase of 5.5%

So orks hitting on a 5, generating additional attacks on a 6, hit about 39% of the time
So orks hitting on a 5, generating additional attacks on a 6, re-rolling 1's, hit about 45% of the time

So if Bad Moons get re-roll 1 as a Klan tactic, I'll be playing Bad Moons from now on, because actually hitting things you shoot at is tight.

**Thebiggesthat**

Can we stop talking about the same fething thing again and again. Want to internet nerd rage over a rule, this thread isn't the place

**Jidmah**

So you mean the thread about the new ork codex is not the place to discuss rules from the new codex?

**PiñaColada**

So what would the numbers be for hitting on 4's rerolling 1's and dakkadakkadakka? I'm too tired to figure it out but I'm guessing mek gunz could very well make up the backbone for a strong ork gunline

**Dandelion**

PiñaColada wrote:
So what would the numbers be for hitting on 4's rerolling 1's and dakkadakkadakka? I'm too tired to figure it out but I'm guessing mek gunz could very well make up the backbone for a strong ork gunline

50% to hit + 8.33% reroll ones + 9.7% extra for 6s (after rerolls) + 0.8% for last reroll ones= 68.83% hit rate. Which is better than a flat BS 3+.

**warhead01**

Dandelion wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
So what would the numbers be for hitting on 4's rerolling 1's and dakkadakkadakka? I'm too tired to figure it out but I'm guessing mek gunz could very well make up the backbone for a strong ork gunline

50% to hit + 8.33% reroll ones + 9.7% extra for 6s (after rerolls) + 0.8% for last reroll ones= 68.83% hit rate. Which is better than a flat BS 3+.

I was thinking about that for Flash Gitz. ammo runts to reroll misses and Badrukk for the rerolling 1's buff.

Depending on the size of the game.
My Gitz are blue so Bad Moons are out.

**Vineheart01**

im curious if Badrukk will have a rule change.
Isnt he Bad Moonz to begin with?

Even if he isnt, Flash Gitz as Bad Moonz = no need for the overpriced Badrukk toting around for the rerolls and you cant reroll a reroll so...no point.
Perhaps reroll 1s to wound for flashgitz? or too much on top of what we got? lol

**Tastyfish**

Badrukk is almost certainly a Freeboota

**warl0rdb0b**

I'd expect Flash Gitz to lack the Clan keyword or have it fixed as Freeboota, as thats how the background has had them portrayed for some time for the most part.

**AndrewGPaul**

Flash Gitz were Freebooterz from the very beginning. They were basically Bad Moons turned up to 11; so insufferable even the other Bad Moonz kicked them out. Speed Freaks are the equivalent for Evil Sunz, and Looterz from the Deah Skullz.

**Ghaz**

Vineheart01 wrote:im curious if Badrukk will have a rule change.
Isnt he Bad Moonz to begin with?

Tastyfish wrote:Badrukk is almost certainly a Freeboota

According to Lexicanum, Badrukk did start out as a Bad Moons before he was chased out of his tribe

**geargutz**

man, if the badmoons, the poshest clan of all, cant stand the presence of flashgitz who go and make the freebooterz then man, freebooterz must be the most insuferable gitz