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tneva82 wrote:
Because no unit in the game should end up in impossible to hit. Only total rookie game designer with zero idea on what good game consist would think that's good idea. No wonder thus GW has introduced such an idea.

If you think that's good idea I want impossible to hit in CC ability for my armies just to laugh at the ork players who put their own advantage over welfare of game.

You need to give a reason for this opinion rather than just spouting it as if it's gospel. WHY is it a massive problem if there can be a situation (that costs an absolute ton of resources) where a unit is impossible to hit? Back up why you think it's a 'total rookie game designer with zero idea on what good game consist' mistake.

There ARE units in the game that impose negatives to hit in CC. There are situations where they can stack too. Your CC ability is just petty and pathetic.

-2 to hit is not impossible to hit for most models in most armies. The problem is that -2 to hit is impossible to hit for 95% of the Ork Codex. It's cometely unfun for an Ork player to play against and a completely unnecessary situation. The DakkaDakka rule solves this issue for Orks while leaving every other unit in the game unaffected.

Even if you think DakkaDakka should apply to all armies, solving this problem for at least Orks is better than not solving it at all. -2 to hit disproportionately affected Orks who've been cursed with disgraceful marksmanship since 3rd edition.

tneva82 wrote:
GW doesn't believe in army rules upping point costs so...No.

Or are you expecting 7 pts boyz in the codex then?-)

Army rules, chapter/whatever traits. Those GW values as exactly 0.

Deathwatch bolter weapon costs for SIA are clear proof of that not being true.

Shoota boyz already were 7pts at one point and they vanished as a result.
Lootas/Burnas went up in points and went from rare to nonexistent.
Think Tankbustas did too, but they actually got their rule changed to be more...understandable and useful so that was kinda justified. Kinda.

Yes this is all before DDD but the point is less bodies of a model that dies to a sneeze.
I could see shootas being 1pt again because of the DDD rule, but nothing else. Everything else dakka related is so overpriced atm its not even funny. A loota is 2.8x the cost of a boy, dies exactly as easy (especially with how stupid cover is in 8th), and generally does about as much damage if they get to live, balancing the hits on 5s stronger shot vs hits on 3s weaker chop.
edit: flash gitz are ok atm but not really all that amazing either. Main issue being the range requires a transport, and a trukk is a bad move while a BW is expensive and not that tough to take out either. Hilarious in a squiggoth though!
edit2: you guys think FW will update their rules after the codex comes out? Things like the Squiggoth do have Klan Rules so they can get those but they wont have DDD. Be epic as hell if my gargsquig could get the DDD rule on a supa-lobba rofl....

Lootas disappeared because they are no longer able to damage tanks in a meaningful way, but still were priced like a unit that blows up a chimar/rhino per turn. 7th edition's point increase and FOC role change was just kicking something that had already died.

Burnas were killed by transport rules no longer allowing them to shoot from vehicles that moved flat out or tank-shocked. Currently they cost less than during the glory days of the burna wagon, but a unit paying to carry one of the worst weapons in the game is not going to go places.

Assuming you take a nob, tank bustas went up by 5 points for 15. They are also one of the best shooting units we have, so their points are fine

Shoota boyz are still inferior to slugga boyz if you add DakkaDakkaDakka. Evil suns is what will be making shoot boyz great again.

The biggest issue with Flash gits is their durability - you pay for a terminator, but you get guardsman. Just for comparison: A primaris Hellblaster is 33, a flash git with ammo runt is 31.
Their range is much less of an issue, 24" is plenty when you are sitting in the middle of the board.

As for FW, I don't think they have updated their rules for any other codices.

 adamsouza wrote:
-2 to hit is not impossible to hit for most models in most armies. The problem is that -2 to hit is impossible to hit for 95% of the Ork Codex. It's cometely unfun for an Ork player to play against and a completely unnecessary situation. The DakkaDakka rule solves this issue for Orks while leaving every other unit in the game unaffected.

Even if you think DakkaDakka should apply to all armies, solving this problem for at least Orks is better than not solving it at all. -2 to hit disproportionately affected Orks who've been cursed with disgraceful marksmanship since 3rd edition.

Bolded is what seems to be the contentious issue.

Nobody is saying that the entire rule should apply to all armies. They're literally just saying that the part about "hitting on natural 6s" should be in there. And solving it "for at least Orks" is great, nobody's saying that it shouldn't be done--the issue is that some are forgetting that there aren't a whole lot of armies sitting on 3's to hit natively. And those are armies for whom they're built around shooting.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nobody is saying that the entire rule should apply to all armies. They're literally just saying that the part about "hitting on natural 6s" should be in there. And solving it "for at least Orks" is great, nobody's saying that it shouldn't be done--the issue is that some are forgetting that there aren't a whole lot of armies sitting on 3's to hit natively. And those are armies for whom they're built around shooting.

Exatly. Armies with 4+ to hit normally may also have Heavy weapons. Meaning moving to get in range may result in not being able to hit at all against -2 to hit.
Natural 6s should always hit for every army. Orks get the additional rule that those 6s will also generate extra shots. Orks are also designed to have more shots anyway, so even without the extra shots rule, they would benefit more from natural 6s than many other armies.

-

 Kanluwen wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
-2 to hit is not impossible to hit for most models in most armies. The problem is that -2 to hit is impossible to hit for 95% of the Ork Codex. It's cometely unfun for an Ork player to play against and a completely unnecessary situation. The DakkaDakka rule solves this issue for Orks while leaving every other unit in the game unaffected.

Even if you think DakkaDakka should apply to all armies, solving this problem for at least Orks is better than not solving it at all. -2 to hit disproportionately affected Orks who've been cursed with disgraceful marksmanship since 3rd edition.

Bolded is what seems to be the contentious issue.

Nobody is saying that the entire rule should apply to all armies. They're literally just saying that the part about "hitting on natural 6s" should be in there. And solving it "for at least Orks" is great, nobody's saying that it shouldn't be done--the issue is that some are forgetting that there aren't a whole lot of armies sitting on 3's to hit natively. And those are armies for whom they're built around shooting.

1) Almost all armies are built to hit on 4+ natively, they hit -2 to hit on sixes anyways.
2) No one has yet provided a reason why the rule is needed by anyone but orks, while plenty of people have shown why tau, IG or nids don't need it to handle the occasional -3 to hit model.

mhalko1 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".

Why would everyone need the 'everyone hits on 6s' rule?

Are Orks getting orders and the ability to soup with any Imperium army? If we're all sharing each other's unique rules now....

I'll try to word this in a way that makes sense to both player bases. I myself am an ork player, but I do have other armies. The Problem with the lines of thinking is this: Non Ork armies are looking at it from a rules stand point that it should be a core mechanic that 6s always hit. However if you move to the fluff side of things, the Ork player is only hitting automatically on 6s because of the "volume of shots the ork army is supposedly able to put out". Other factions do not have this volume therefore should not automatically hit on 6s. even if it makes sense rules-wise it doesn't make sense fluffwise. Additionally from the Ork perspective, GW gave us a shiny new tool to help us compete. Non Ork players, by saying that 6s should be a core mechanic are also saying that they want half the rule to apply to them as well. so by suggesting this, the Ork players then want to know what suggestion should be substituted in addition to the additional hit rolls on 6s for trying to take a rule that applies exclusively to them and distributing it to other armies. I hope I explained why people on the Orks side are saying there should be an additional benefit for essentially applying their rule to everyone.

Now explain why grots get the rule. Not only do they always hit on 6s but they also get extra shots, despite not having the BS problem of orks and without having such a high volume of shots.
Also, humans are perfectly capable of "spraying and praying", since we invented the term. Besides, shootas do not fire more than a punisher cannon, yet the punisher cannon does not get the rule.
Rokkits only get one shot before being reloaded but they always hit on 6s.
So no, rate of fire is not a valid argument for only orks getting the rule seeing as it is inconsistent.

Second, there is no reason to compensate ork players for sharing an otherwise free rule. You still get to keep the other part of the rule.
In addition, we aren't stealing the orks rule. We are saying it should have simply been a core rule like FLY or 1s always miss. No one wants to steal Mob Rule, because that defines the army. Hitting on 6s hasn't even been a thing yet, and so doesn't define orks. This ownership of the rule is baffling.
And, did anyone get mad when Fire Prisms got Pulsed Laser Discharge, even though it was basically Grinding Advance? No. Why? Because Fire Prisms needed the rule to not be garbage, just like how Russes needed the rule to not be garbage. And I don't see Guard players asking for compensation. In fact, a lot of people just assumed it would apply to every tank, until it didn't.

So now the question remains, why should other factions have the rule at all?
Simple, the exact same reason Orks got the rule: not being able to hit something is not fun. And guess what? Degrading profiles are a thing. Orks don't really have to deal with it for range, but when a Russ loses 6 wounds it's now shooting like an ork. When a Ghostkeel lose 5 wounds, it shoots like an ork etc...

Dandelion wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".

Why would everyone need the 'everyone hits on 6s' rule?

Are Orks getting orders and the ability to soup with any Imperium army? If we're all sharing each other's unique rules now....

I'll try to word this in a way that makes sense to both player bases. I myself am an ork player, but I do have other armies. The Problem with the lines of thinking is this: Non Ork armies are looking at it from a rules stand point that it should be a core mechanic that 6s always hit. However if you move to the fluff side of things, the Ork player is only hitting automatically on 6s because of the "volume of shots the ork army is supposedly able to put out". Other factions do not have this volume therefore should not automatically hit on 6s. even if it makes sense rules-wise it doesn't make sense fluffwise. Additionally from the Ork perspective, GW gave us a shiny new tool to help us compete. Non Ork players, by saying that 6s should be a core mechanic are also saying that they want half the rule to apply to them as well. so by suggesting this, the Ork players then want to know what suggestion should be substituted in addition to the additional hit rolls on 6s for trying to take a rule that applies exclusively to them and distributing it to other armies. I hope I explained why people on the Orks side are saying there should be an additional benefit for essentially applying their rule to everyone.

Now explain why grots get the rule. Not only do they always hit on 6s but they also get extra shots, despite not having the BS problem of orks and without having such a high volume of shots.
Also, humans are perfectly capable of "spraying and praying", since we invented the term. Besides, shootas do not fire more than a punisher cannon, yet the punisher cannon does not get the rule.
Rokkits only get one shot before being reloaded but they always hit on 6s.
So no, rate of fire is not a valid argument for only orks getting the rule seeing as it is inconsistent.

Second, there is no reason to compensate ork players for sharing an otherwise free rule. You still get to keep the other part of the rule.
In addition, we aren't stealing the orks rule. We are saying it should have simply been a core rule like FLY or 1s always miss. No one wants to steal Mob Rule, because that defines the army. Hitting on 6s hasn't even been a thing yet, and so doesn't define orks. This ownership of the rule is baffling.
And, did anyone get mad when Fire Prisms got Pulsed Laser Discharge, even though it was basically Grinding Advance? No. Why? Because Fire Prisms needed the rule to not be garbage, just like how Russes needed the rule to not be garbage. And I don't see Guard players asking for compensation. In fact, a lot of people just assumed it would apply to every tank, until it didn't.

So now the question remains, why should other factions have the rule at all?
Simple, the exact same reason Orks got the rule: not being able to hit something is not fun. And guess what? Degrading profiles are a thing. Orks don't really have to deal with it for range, but when a Russ loses 6 wounds it's now shooting like an ork. When a Ghostkeel lose 5 wounds, it shoots like an ork etc...

Because they do have the volume fluffwise. Think of the max size of grot units. It's still 30. In the fluff swarms of grots still do litter the battlefield.

 Jidmah wrote:

1) Almost all armies are built to hit on 4+ natively, they hit -2 to hit on sixes anyways.
2) No one has yet provided a reason why the rule is needed by anyone but orks, while plenty of people have shown why tau, IG or nids don't need it to handle the occasional -3 to hit model.

1) Degrading profiles and heavy weapons exist.
2) Except it's the same reason why orks get it: not being able to hit is not fun. And no, the arguments against other factions getting it have been super weak which is why no one has changed their mind yet. You yourself gave the reason that a basilisk should not be able to hit a voidraven. But what about a hydra? Chip off some wounds and now it's a paperweight, unable to contribute. Take some wounds off a Riptide and boom... useless. You don't even need to kill them.
And you've claimed that "bad game design" is not an argument, so tell me why should Orks always hit on 6s? Because I can guarantee you that anything you say can be boiled down to "bad game design". The majority of orks not being able to hit... is bad game design. Why is it bad game design? Because it's no fun. It's frustrating.


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mhalko1 wrote:


Because they do have the volume fluffwise. Think of the max size of grot units. It's still 30. In the fluff swarms of grots still do litter the battlefield.

So Guard should get the rule then?

actually i could see Grots not having the DDD rule.
They have a BS4+ after all. They actually try to aim..to a degree

 Galef wrote:
Exatly. Armies with 4+ to hit normally may also have Heavy weapons. Meaning moving to get in range may result in not being able to hit at all against -2 to hit.

Damn, I guess positioning and tactics might become somewhat more important with these things considered. If you're scared of a flyer I suppose you'll have to position your anti-flyer weapons in an intelligent way so you don't have to move to hit them. What a shame.

 Galef wrote:
Natural 6s should always hit for every army. Orks get the additional rule that those 6s will also generate extra shots. Orks are also designed to have more shots anyway, so even without the extra shots rule, they would benefit more from natural 6s than many other armies.

You obviously know little about current Orks. There are many armies in the game as it is right now that dish out a hell of a lot more shots than Orks. We should be known for our dakka but unfortunately that's not how it pans out in game. So no, we don't benefit more from natural 6s than many other armies.

Here's an idea - we give every unit in the game the ability to always hit on 6s, but their price is adjusted (upwards) to compensate for the buff they've just received. Sound fair?

Dandelion wrote:
1) Degrading profiles and heavy weapons exist.
2) Except it's the same reason why orks get it: not being able to hit is not fun.

But IT'S NOT A PROBLEM FOR OTHER ARMIES AS IT IS FOR ORKS. There are only edge cases where the rule will even come into play for any other faction than Orks. You also haven't paid for the rule. It's not factored in to the cost of the unit and you want to give it to every single one. Naaaah. Not unless you're happy to pay.

Dandelion wrote:
And no, the arguments against other factions getting it have been super weak which is why no one has changed their mind yet. You yourself gave the reason that a basilisk should not be able to hit a voidraven. But what about a hydra? Chip off some wounds and now it's a paperweight, unable to contribute. Take some wounds off a Riptide and boom... useless. You don't even need to kill them.

How many wounds do you need to take off those units to make them unable to hit *certain targets*? Funny that you consider the tons of arguments leveled against what you believe, one of which is above, "super weak". Almost like you're totally biased. As I said earlier to Kanluwen - if you want our stuff (and it is our rule, it's been stated by GW to be our rule) then it's only fair we have your rules. I'll take those orders please.

Dandelion wrote:
And you've claimed that "bad game design" is not an argument, so tell me why should Orks always hit on 6s? Because I can guarantee you that anything you say can be boiled down to "bad game design". The majority of orks not being able to hit... is bad game design. Why is it bad game design? Because it's no fun. It's frustrating.

It's perhaps not bad game design that I am able to almost kill a tank and it can't hit my most protected units. Perhaps the majority of Ork units being unable to hit anything FOR AN ENTIRE PHASE is somewhat bad game design, in comparison to your one, or two edge cases? I think it might be the case, somehow.

To problem of 6's always hitting as a general rule is that the game wasn't designed with that in mind.

For example, from 6th to 8th, one change was for everybody to wound on 6's. That, with all the buffs to hordes, make big models (Unless they where bonkers OP stuff like the High Elf fenix) much less survivable, because you could end up killing a Dragon with your 60 man goblin horde just by rolling 6's. And I know this is the "Infantry Squads killing landraiders with lasguns" all over again, but is a big change.

The way to remove the problem with to-hit modifiers is not to make everything hit on 6's. Is to remove the -1 to hit at 12" traits.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
actually i could see Grots not having the DDD rule.
They have a BS4+ after all. They actually try to aim..to a degree

I applaud your consistency. Thank you.


(I will also take this moment to take back anything bad I said about Ork players in general, I was frustrated at the time so I apologize for being too harsh)


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 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You also haven't paid for the rule. It's not factored in to the cost of the unit and you want to give it to every single one. Naaaah. Not unless you're happy to pay.

Wait, how much did you pay for the rule?

Everyone should hit on 6's, as a counter to everyone misses on 1's.

No army should ever be able to get to a point where they can't hit something, regardless.

I have a feeling we'll be seeing the "Hits on 6's" portion of DDD in CA2018.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Exatly. Armies with 4+ to hit normally may also have Heavy weapons. Meaning moving to get in range may result in not being able to hit at all against -2 to hit.

Damn, I guess positioning and tactics might become somewhat more important with these things considered. If you're scared of a flyer I suppose you'll have to position your anti-flyer weapons in an intelligent way so you don't have to move to hit them. What a shame.

Who the heck brings "anti-flyer weapons"? As in dedicated anti-flyer weapons, like Hydras? They either don't have the shots necessary to be scary, they don't have the BS to deal with anything that has the ability to get the -2s, or they're extremely points heavy and make your army inflexible. The "anti-flyer weapons" for many armies are extremely lackluster even considering the buff they've received in applying to anything with the "Fly" keyword now.

And let's be 100% clear here: We're talking about Eldar flyers with your silly example. They're the only ones currently who can do that, because Alaitoc Wraithfighters and Crimson Hunters are a thing.

 Galef wrote:
Natural 6s should always hit for every army. Orks get the additional rule that those 6s will also generate extra shots. Orks are also designed to have more shots anyway, so even without the extra shots rule, they would benefit more from natural 6s than many other armies.

You obviously know little about current Orks. There are many armies in the game as it is right now that dish out a hell of a lot more shots than Orks. We should be known for our dakka but unfortunately that's not how it pans out in game. So no, we don't benefit more from natural 6s than many other armies.

What armies "dish out a hell of a lot more shots than Orks"? Are they Guard and Tau? Because those are shooting armies. And even then, they have some units like the Hydra which is known for "filling the air" with shots, taking a brute force method to bring down flyers...and those are limited to 8 shots.

You're also ignoring that most Ork weaponry is(and likely will remain) Assault, meaning you'll be firing full shots for the most part. You won't be requiring the enemy to close with you or you with the enemy or remaining stationary to get the most output.

Here's an idea - we give every unit in the game the ability to always hit on 6s, but their price is adjusted (upwards) to compensate for the buff they've just received. Sound fair?

No, because you're assuming that your points have gone up specifically because of this rule. No matter what happens when the Ork book drops, the assumption from you and some others will be that points went up because of D^3.

Until we know for sure that D^3 actually is changing points costs--the only real discussion or concession that others want is the "always hit on 6s". Nobody is asking for it to apply specifically to shooting, but rather for it to be a blanket rule for both shooting & combat.

Dakkadakka shouldn't make Ork units more expensive... because if a unit is bad... you give it a buff in the form of rules... and then you make it more expensive... you keep it bad.

Is the same as when people say that "Ok, lets make this OP unit more expensive, but lets give it this X buffs to compensante"... thats... not the point of a nerf.

Dandelion wrote:


Now explain why grots get the rule.

You've seen the codex?

 davou wrote:

Dandelion wrote:


Now explain why grots get the rule.

You've seen the codex?

Warhammer Community wrote:Previously seen as a Stratagem in Chapter Approved 2017, we’ve added this as a special rule on EVERY Orks unit that works ALL the time. You’ll never, ever hit on worse than a 6 – and you’ll get an extra shooting attack for free when you do so. If you believe in yourself, you can hit anything…

Some things don't need the Codex to be seen.

Dandelion wrote:

Wait, how much did you pay for the rule?

You've seen the points for everything in the ork codex then?

Galef wrote:
Who the heck brings "anti-flyer weapons"? As in dedicated anti-flyer weapons, like Hydras? They either don't have the shots necessary to be scary, they don't have the BS to deal with anything that has the ability to get the -2s, or they're extremely points heavy and make your army inflexible. The "anti-flyer weapons" for many armies are extremely lackluster even considering the buff they've received in applying to anything with the "Fly" keyword now.

And let's be 100% clear here: We're talking about Eldar flyers with your silly example. They're the only ones currently who can do that, because Alaitoc Wraithfighters and Crimson Hunters are a thing.

Where did I say anything about dedicated AA weapons? I'm on about whatever weapon is your weapon of choice for AA in your current list.

 Galef wrote:

What armies "dish out a hell of a lot more shots than Orks"? Are they Guard and Tau? Because those are shooting armies. And even then, they have some units like the Hydra which is known for "filling the air" with shots, taking a brute force method to bring down flyers...and those are limited to 8 shots.

You're also ignoring that most Ork weaponry is(and likely will remain) Assault, meaning you'll be firing full shots for the most part. You won't be requiring the enemy to close with you or you with the enemy or remaining stationary to get the most output.

Pretty much every faction has the capacity to pump out a ton more shots than Orks. Pick any faction. Aggressors. Other factions tanks. IK. Etc etc etc Maybe you should name an Ork unit that puts out more dakka than the above?

I haven't forgotten our weapons are assault. Its hard to forget when you lose half your shots for using the 'benefit'. Conversely our weapons gain no more shots when we close the distance and have very limited range compared to other equivalents.

 Galef wrote:
No, because you're assuming that your points have gone up specifically because of this rule. No matter what happens when the Ork book drops, the assumption from you and some others will be that points went up because of D^3.

Until we know for sure that D^3 actually is changing points costs--the only real discussion or concession that others want is the "always hit on 6s". Nobody is asking for it to apply specifically to shooting, but rather for it to be a blanket rule for both shooting & combat.

No, I'm assuming that GW has balanced our points costs for all of our units knowing they had this rule. The same is not true of any other unit in the game that now wants it for free. If you want a buff, you must pay for the buff in some way unless you can prove that the unit needs the buff and is underpowered because of it.

I've seen no one prove this. I've seen no one willing to accept an increase in cost for the buff. Other armies don't need the rule as Orks do, the need is simply not there. It seems they just want a slice of another factions' rules for no reason. Cool, I'll take eldar flying tanks and bikes and AM orders please.

I'm reading a lot of bitching about orks being the only ones to hit on 6s.

Rhetorical question, why dont all armies have the same and equal rules? Because GW say so. It's their trainset after all.

You can wham on about punisher cannons and other rubbish as much as you like, frankly the fluff is irrelevant. Orks have this rule because GW gave orks this rule, that's the long and short of it.

Want to enjoy this rule, play orks.

 davou wrote:

Dandelion wrote:


Now explain why grots get the rule.

You've seen the codex?

The rule specifically mentions the bubblechukka.




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 r_squared wrote:
I'm reading a lot of bitching about orks being the only ones to hit on 6s.

Rhetorical question, why dont all armies have the same and equal rules? Because GW say so. It's their trainset after all.

You can wham on about punisher cannons and other rubbish as much as you like, frankly the fluff is irrelevant. Orks have this rule because GW gave orks this rule, that's the long and short of it.

Want to enjoy this rule, play orks.

So GW giving Eldar -2 to hit flyers is totally cool and we shouldn't criticize it? You know, since it's their train set. I mean, if you take that line of thinking then there's no point in discussing anything rules wise at all.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 davou wrote:

Dandelion wrote:


Now explain why grots get the rule.

You've seen the codex?

Warhammer Community wrote:Previously seen as a Stratagem in Chapter Approved 2017, we’ve added this as a special rule on EVERY Orks unit that works ALL the time. You’ll never, ever hit on worse than a 6 – and you’ll get an extra shooting attack for free when you do so. If you believe in yourself, you can hit anything…

Some things don't need the Codex to be seen.

"Orks unit" doesn't necessarily include Grots. It probably does, since it says Orks units and nor Ork units but I'd not be certain until I see the ruletext. Waagh and mob rule didn't apply to grots for to take an example from previous codexi and I could see someone describing those rules as every Orks unit having it.

EDIT: As Dandelion points out, the Bubblechukka seems to be explicitly mentioned. So it's fair to assume the rule will apply to grots as well.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Dandelion wrote:

Wait, how much did you pay for the rule?

You've seen the points for everything in the ork codex then?

You're the one claiming orks pay for it. I just asked how much since apparently you have inside knowledge.


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 Zywus wrote:

"Orks unit" doesn't necessarily include Grots. It probably does, since it says Orks units and nor Ork units but I'd not be certain until I see the ruletext. Waagh and mob rule didn't apply to grots for to take an example from previous codexi and I could see someone describing those rules as every Orks unit having it.

Again, bubblechukka is specifically mentioned. See above.


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 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Cool, I'll take eldar flying tanks and bikes and AM orders please.

Funny you should mention orders, since I've suggested multiples times that they replace auras for every faction.

Bubblechukka and all the other funky weapons are probably being transferred (finally) to nonmekgun units.

Technically speaking it makes no sense that anything short of the Stompa's weapons shouldnt be available for the battlewagon.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Bubblechukka and all the other funky weapons are probably being transferred (finally) to nonmekgun units.

Technically speaking it makes no sense that anything short of the Stompa's weapons shouldnt be available for the battlewagon.

no kit = no rules , so maybe it's on the new buggy, but I haven't seen one in the photos.

Dandelion wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Bubblechukka and all the other funky weapons are probably being transferred (finally) to nonmekgun units.

Technically speaking it makes no sense that anything short of the Stompa's weapons shouldnt be available for the battlewagon.

no kit = no rules , so maybe it's on the new buggy, but I haven't seen one in the photos.

And since its not integrated into the model itself, i present to you the Deffrolla Kit! (oh and killkannon i forgot that was in this)
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ork-Battlewagon-Upgrade-Pack

They could very easily release another 10-15 dollar single sprue kit with the bitz to put bubblechukka, smasha gun, and traktor kannon onto a battlewagon. It would slot into the kannon turret anyway.
Would anyone buy it? Probably not lol

 r_squared wrote:
I'm reading a lot of bitching about orks being the only ones to hit on 6s.

Rhetorical question, why dont all armies have the same and equal rules? Because GW say so. It's their trainset after all.

Unrhetorical response: It's because we literally have under Hit Rolls that 1s always fail.

You can wham on about punisher cannons and other rubbish as much as you like, frankly the fluff is irrelevant. Orks have this rule because GW gave orks this rule, that's the long and short of it.

Want to enjoy this rule, play orks.

I would if I wanted natural 6s to trigger additional hits certainly!

As mentioned, since 1s specifically are called out as "A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply" it is not entirely unreasonable to ask for the inverse to be true as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zywus wrote:

"Orks unit" doesn't necessarily include Grots. It probably does, since it says Orks units and nor Ork units but I'd not be certain until I see the ruletext. Waagh and mob rule didn't apply to grots for to take an example from previous codexi and I could see someone describing those rules as every Orks unit having it.

EDIT: As Dandelion points out, the Bubblechukka seems to be explicitly mentioned. So it's fair to assume the rule will apply to grots as well.

Rules text won't clarify anything. It's a rule for the book proper and likely will either say preceding it that everything has it or it will be specifically posted on units to which it applies(which since they say "EVERY Orks Units" suggests this won't be the case).

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Dandelion wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Bubblechukka and all the other funky weapons are probably being transferred (finally) to nonmekgun units.

Technically speaking it makes no sense that anything short of the Stompa's weapons shouldnt be available for the battlewagon.

no kit = no rules , so maybe it's on the new buggy, but I haven't seen one in the photos.

And since its not integrated into the model itself, i present to you the Deffrolla Kit! (oh and killkannon i forgot that was in this)
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ork-Battlewagon-Upgrade-Pack

They could very easily release another 10-15 dollar single sprue kit with the bitz to put bubblechukka, smasha gun, and traktor kannon onto a battlewagon. It would slot into the kannon turret anyway.
Would anyone buy it? Probably not lol

Well, it would be orky i'll give you that.