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 nflagey wrote:
And what the hell is that??!?!

Spoiler:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BozOxgLFQpj/?hl=en

It sure looks like a mix of Chaos and Orks, or at least it's where my mind wants to go ...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And this one?!?!

Spoiler:

Damnit - You killed Caidia! Again!

Don't worry. Orkimedies can fix *anything*

 xttz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/12/what-is-the-speedwaaagh/

Reads as if each of the six new vehicles will be tied to a particular clan

I feel like that is gonna be more for the speed freaks mini game. Not normal 40k in game.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.

They went up a point and are on 32mm bases. A CQC focused unit. DDD makes them able to hit things that we literally had to just stare at before. It allows us to play the game. It's hardly a buff, particularly to a unit that isn't exactly known for its damage at range.

It's a massive, undeniable nerf.

Let's hope they have 5+ armour or something to balance things out...

It's certainly deniable. You gained a solid army wide rule that isn't related to free traits in DDD. That is the only undeniable fact. You were just hoping it was free, apparently it isn't.

blaktoof wrote:
I could see 7 pts if they got 4+ save.

Well yea, so could I. I'd take them at 9 points for a 4+, though 10 was stretch in 7th.

I could also see 7 points at bs4+. Not holding my breath on any gain though. It seems only IG can get cheap infantry with huge bonuses any more.

The speedwaagh. My wallet hurts.

In my dreams, the speedwaagh is the hard counter to soup lists. Jump over, burn through, or just shoot screens. Those drills on the Scrapjet aren't for infantry, they're for making holes in Knights.

They're dreams, let me have them!

It's possible Chapter Approved roles around and raises the cost of all trash-mob units to limit hordes on the tabletop?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.

They went up a point and are on 32mm bases. A CQC focused unit. DDD makes them able to hit things that we literally had to just stare at before. It allows us to play the game. It's hardly a buff, particularly to a unit that isn't exactly known for its damage at range.

It's a massive, undeniable nerf.

Let's hope they have 5+ armour or something to balance things out...

It's certainly deniable. You gained a solid army wide rule that isn't related to free traits in DDD. That is the only undeniable fact. You were just hoping it was free, apparently it isn't.

No other factions models went up in price, because of the addition of sub-faction rules+traits and junk.

DDD is a joke of a rule; it sounds fun, but it’s 2/5 extra hits per 100 shots (depending if BS6/5). Pre-wounding/armor saves btw, so you might get ONE or TWO extra kills; per 100! shots. No ork unit has that much firepower to begin with (Shoota Boyz get halfway...), so...

For 210 points of boys, you get an additional 1-2 hits, at the cost of 30 extra points for the squad; and this is with no other combat related changes. That’s if you took SHOOTAS instead of CHOPPAS; which itself is a massive reduction of the units role - I love me shoots Boyz, but let’s not pretend that 1-2 hits makes them that amazing they deserved a nerf.

DDD is a rule for 8th edition, not for Orks. DDD is passable on Grots (and other 4+ to Grots, but since it doesn’t get effected by +1 modifiers, it really doesn’t do much either way). No unit should ever have been unable to be hit; hits should always land on 6’s, and miss on 1’s.

Don’t kid yourself into thinking DDD actually does anything useful.

Edit: On topic, looking forward to the codex; I love the new model designs. Waiting until November was a mistake, since Artifact+Keyforge release at the end of that month as well, and will eat into Ork player budgets if they’re into card games at all. Hope the Ork codex is balanced all around; and not just a few good units with the rest being trash - I want a balanced army, not an op fotm army.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
It's possible Chapter Approved roles around and raises the cost of all trash-mob units to limit hordes on the tabletop?

I was just going to post this. I have been suspecting GW is going to increase most of the basic infantry in the game by 1-2 points.

BTW you guys need to consider table top performance. A basic shoota boy from the Evil Suns will now have mob rule, DDD, Ear we go, +1 to advance and +1 to charges and ignore the penalty on every gun the unit can take. That effectively gives them a 27" threat range and they will average 20 s4 hits per 30 man mob. If they were 6ppm that would be way too much IMHO. Oh and that mob can still assault if a boss is nearby (why wouldn't he be) for another 40 s4 hits. The fact that they are T4 is a big deal.

Evil suns is stupidly good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Who said your going up for faction traits? Your ignoring what I wrote pretty blatantly. You GAINED DDD, DDD as far as I am aware is not a trait. So your not going up in cost for nothing.

If Shoota Boyz are advancing, they’re not getting 20 hits; closer to 10. And that’s pre-wounding/armor saves, so...

Then they also lose out on a lot more attacks/potential damage from the choppas - if you’re planning to assault at alll, Shoota are not worth the damage loss when you get there.

 zend wrote:
Basic daemons went up when CSM dropped, didn't they?

Also, the Ork index was hot squig gak, and poorly balanced. Just because boyz were the only good thing they had then, doesn't mean they are now. We just got confirmation that we're getting a 120point winged Daemon Prince that's only missing the fly and pysker keywords after all.

So below average unit gets other units that might be good is worth double nerf right? You know where that leads? Nobody takes ork boyz that weren't competive even before double nerf and takes good unit. Hmm...Almost as if GW was trying to get people buy something other than what they have sold before! And what's better to that than nerf the unit that sold to death while boosting others.

DDD is definitely useful. When your shooting 3 rockets out of a boy unit your basically 50% chance to get another free shot. What planet are you from that this is bad?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
7 point boyz is a bit of a disappointment - maybe they're trying to get people to bring something besides boyz spam? If that's the case, they'd better give us other playable options.

Agreed. I'll never understand GW's attitude toward orks. Why chose to nerf our one good unit?

It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.

Eeeh so that's why IG troops got price hike when they got improved in codex! Or space marines! Or dark eldars! Or tau! Or...Wait none of them did.

None of those GW actually considers costing. Clan traits etc are free for GW. And ork boyz were bad in competive listts to begin with.

 Red Corsair wrote:
DDD is definitely useful. When your shooting 3 rockets out of a boy unit your basically 50% chance to get another free shot. What planet are you from that this is bad?

50% for a 33% chance to hit, followed by wounding/armor.

I’d rather take 30+36 (3 rokkit) cost in units that I can expect to do more damage than a single rokkit reliably. Also, you lose melee combat potential on those rokkit a; but I guess they have extra ablative wounds in the form of a large squad, so...

Boy shooting isn’t worth the price.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.

They went up a point and are on 32mm bases. A CQC focused unit. DDD makes them able to hit things that we literally had to just stare at before. It allows us to play the game. It's hardly a buff, particularly to a unit that isn't exactly known for its damage at range.

It's a massive, undeniable nerf.

Let's hope they have 5+ armour or something to balance things out...

It's certainly deniable. You gained a solid army wide rule that isn't related to free traits in DDD. That is the only undeniable fact. You were just hoping it was free, apparently it isn't.

DDD is not worth a point on a unit that specialises in cqc and has a pistol. It's literally worthless in fact. If you can shoot your targets with a pistol you're within 12" and the neg to hit modifiers don't apply.

Please, do tell me how the massive nerf of both a pt increase and the 32mm base size isn't actually a nerf though.

I won't be all that bothered if Orks going to 7ppm alongside guardsme and other types going up 1 point as well. As long as there are other competitive options presented to us and we are freed from boy spam it will be a net gain for Orks.

Edit: Yeah count me in the DDD being weak and not worth boat. I would never pay a ppm for it anything that's not a pure shooting unit.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.

They went up a point and are on 32mm bases. A CQC focused unit. DDD makes them able to hit things that we literally had to just stare at before. It allows us to play the game. It's hardly a buff, particularly to a unit that isn't exactly known for its damage at range.

It's a massive, undeniable nerf.

Let's hope they have 5+ armour or something to balance things out...

It's certainly deniable. You gained a solid army wide rule that isn't related to free traits in DDD. That is the only undeniable fact. You were just hoping it was free, apparently it isn't.

DDD is not worth a point on a unit that specialises in cqc and has a pistol. It's literally worthless in fact. If you can shoot your targets with a pistol you're within 12" and the neg to hit modifiers don't apply.

Please, do tell me how the massive nerf of both a pt increase and the 32mm base size isn't actually a nerf though.

Let’s be real with ourselves; Boyz are 7ppm because they were the most popular ork units at tournaments, and because it forces players to buy newer/other models.

So barring the Clan specific Stratagems, what looks like the best Clan trait for Lootaz, bad Moons or free bootaz?

tneva82 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
7 point boyz is a bit of a disappointment - maybe they're trying to get people to bring something besides boyz spam? If that's the case, they'd better give us other playable options.

Agreed. I'll never understand GW's attitude toward orks. Why chose to nerf our one good unit?

It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.

Eeeh so that's why IG troops got price hike when they got improved in codex! Or space marines! Or dark eldars! Or tau! Or...Wait none of them did.

None of those GW actually considers costing. Clan traits etc are free for GW. And ork boyz were bad in competive listts to begin with.

I love how the post always gets moved down the street.

Hey guys, GW didn't do this in the past so apparently they are shackled design wise because of that. Oh wait, no they aren't you just have some sort of strange idea they are.

 Red Corsair wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
7 point boyz is a bit of a disappointment - maybe they're trying to get people to bring something besides boyz spam? If that's the case, they'd better give us other playable options.

Agreed. I'll never understand GW's attitude toward orks. Why chose to nerf our one good unit?

It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.

Eeeh so that's why IG troops got price hike when they got improved in codex! Or space marines! Or dark eldars! Or tau! Or...Wait none of them did.

None of those GW actually considers costing. Clan traits etc are free for GW. And ork boyz were bad in competive listts to begin with.

I love how the post always gets moved down the street.

Hey guys, GW didn't do this in the past so apparently they are shackled design wise because of that. Oh wait, no they aren't you just have some sort of strange idea they are.

Isn’t that the Ork way though?

Who cares what other factions get, you get nothing.

In reality though, you can bet your butt you’ll be seeing “hits on 6’s” as a base game rule in CA, so...

EDIT: On topic; did any other faction get a community post about their base lore, before being released? It feels like “here’s ork lore” because it’s been so long amd everyone’s forgotten what it is anyways. I mean, ork players havent; but Orks haven’t been relevant in 18 years (third edition), sans index tournament performance with green tide.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.

They went up a point and are on 32mm bases. A CQC focused unit. DDD makes them able to hit things that we literally had to just stare at before. It allows us to play the game. It's hardly a buff, particularly to a unit that isn't exactly known for its damage at range.

It's a massive, undeniable nerf.

Let's hope they have 5+ armour or something to balance things out...

It's certainly deniable. You gained a solid army wide rule that isn't related to free traits in DDD. That is the only undeniable fact. You were just hoping it was free, apparently it isn't.

DDD is not worth a point on a unit that specialises in cqc and has a pistol. It's literally worthless in fact. If you can shoot your targets with a pistol you're within 12" and the neg to hit modifiers don't apply.

Please, do tell me how the massive nerf of both a pt increase and the 32mm base size isn't actually a nerf though.

Ah look, he just ignored my post and reframed my argument. Now that is face palm worthy. I just explained how you got a 3rd USR you didn't have. Not a clan trait, a brand new shinny USR. A point increase isn't a nerf when your getting something for it. Now, you can hate on DDD all you want, but I seem to recall half this thread derailing 30 pages back when Ork players were adamant this should be an ork only rule lol. You want exclusive access to a rule, you gotta pay for it.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.

They went up a point and are on 32mm bases. A CQC focused unit. DDD makes them able to hit things that we literally had to just stare at before. It allows us to play the game. It's hardly a buff, particularly to a unit that isn't exactly known for its damage at range.

It's a massive, undeniable nerf.

Let's hope they have 5+ armour or something to balance things out...

It's certainly deniable. You gained a solid army wide rule that isn't related to free traits in DDD. That is the only undeniable fact. You were just hoping it was free, apparently it isn't.

DDD is not worth a point on a unit that specialises in cqc and has a pistol. It's literally worthless in fact. If you can shoot your targets with a pistol you're within 12" and the neg to hit modifiers don't apply.

Please, do tell me how the massive nerf of both a pt increase and the 32mm base size isn't actually a nerf though.

Ah look, he just ignored my post and reframed my argument. Now that is face palm worthy. I just explained how you got a 3rd USR you didn't have. Not a clan trait, a brand new shinny USR. A point increase isn't a nerf when your getting something for it. Now, you can hate on DDD all you want, but I seem to recall half this thread derailing 30 pages back when Ork players were adamant this should be an ork only rule lol. You want exclusive access to a rule, you gotta pay for it.

A points increase isn’t a nerf when you’re getting something, as long as what you’re getting is worth the points cost increase.

Is DDD worth 1 point on Boyz? (~17% price increase)

If so, please explain why.

I’d make shootas cost 1 point, but also give DDD; so baseline Boyz don’t have it, but also aren’t punished for a rule that doesn’t benefit them, but then you also have the option of taking the shootist element+rule, but also paying for it. I don’t feel I’m getting a 17% increase in value for my boys with DDD.

6 to 7 ppm is a 16.7% increase in cost.

DDD is a 1/6 * 5/6 at best or 1/6 * 1/6 at worst. That's between 2 and 6%. Not comparable.

Evil sun's tactic needs to be weighed against base 8th ed 5" movement and loss of alternative chapter tactics.

Except when your shooting at something that you normally would have 0% chance of hitting your just gained not only 100% increase in your odds to hit, but also a second go around. Context matters mate.

DDD is definitely a buff, a small but welcome one.

32mm bases are a frustrating nerf.

I would suggest waiting until we see the codex to say 1pt per model increase is definitely a nerf. Just based on the (un)reliable information we have a Battlewagon + 20 boyz actually went down in price. Before it was 120 + 161 = 281 vs 140 +120 = 260. In a vacuum that seems like a buff.

DDD should be renamed “More Bullets!”, and be a purchasable upgrade for each squad, at 1 point per model.

It gives me list building choices, and doesn’t weaken me against metas where -2 to hit isn’t the norm. If I’m at -1 to hit, the best part of DDD (always hitting on 6s) does nothing for me.

 Geemoney wrote:
DDD is definitely a buff, a small but welcome one.

32mm bases are a frustrating nerf.

I would suggest waiting until we see the codex to say 1pt per model increase is definitely a nerf. Just based on the (un)reliable information we have a Battlewagon + 20 boyz actually went down in price. Before it was 120 + 161 = 281 vs 140 +120 = 260. In a vacuum that seems like a buff.

^This

Thank you for being reasonable.

The whole picture is required, now if the picture is painted in garbage I'll be right there on the line with the complaints but it's far too early.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.

They went up a point and are on 32mm bases. A CQC focused unit. DDD makes them able to hit things that we literally had to just stare at before. It allows us to play the game. It's hardly a buff, particularly to a unit that isn't exactly known for its damage at range.

It's a massive, undeniable nerf.

Let's hope they have 5+ armour or something to balance things out...

It's certainly deniable. You gained a solid army wide rule that isn't related to free traits in DDD. That is the only undeniable fact. You were just hoping it was free, apparently it isn't.

DDD is not worth a point on a unit that specialises in cqc and has a pistol. It's literally worthless in fact. If you can shoot your targets with a pistol you're within 12" and the neg to hit modifiers don't apply.

Please, do tell me how the massive nerf of both a pt increase and the 32mm base size isn't actually a nerf though.

Ah look, he just ignored my post and reframed my argument. Now that is face palm worthy. I just explained how you got a 3rd USR you didn't have. Not a clan trait, a brand new shinny USR. A point increase isn't a nerf when your getting something for it. Now, you can hate on DDD all you want, but I seem to recall half this thread derailing 30 pages back when Ork players were adamant this should be an ork only rule lol. You want exclusive access to a rule, you gotta pay for it.

Please explain how DDD is worth anything on Slugga Boys. You obviously have no idea what they are.

Please explain how DDD is worth anything on shoots boys.

Please explain how this AND the 32mm base is anything but a nerf to Boys. Your 'sidegrade' argument is patently false. Its completely wrong because, unless there's a change to make Boys more survivable than they are now, they are without question worse point for point. This is the definition of a nerf.

If you're just going to troll, which is literally all you seem to do in this thread, just leave.

E - grammar.

fe40k wrote:
DDD should be renamed “More Bullets!”, and be a purchasable upgrade for each squad, at 1 point per model.

It gives me list building choices, and doesn’t weaken me against metas where -2 to hit isn’t the norm. If I’m at -1 to hit, the best part of DDD (always hitting on 6s) does nothing for me.

I am not disagreeing with you, but this is not just an ork issue. 8th edition really hates on assaulting. I get that assault is very powerful when done right, but I would rather they toned down the impact of assault and made it more accessible then it currently is. Overall 8th is solid, but they for sure can improve on some things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ an actual englishman, maybe stop making demands and just agree to disagree rather then blatantly breaking the forum rules for the Nth time.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.

They went up a point and are on 32mm bases. A CQC focused unit. DDD makes them able to hit things that we literally had to just stare at before. It allows us to play the game. It's hardly a buff, particularly to a unit that isn't exactly known for its damage at range.

It's a massive, undeniable nerf.

Let's hope they have 5+ armour or something to balance things out...

It's certainly deniable. You gained a solid army wide rule that isn't related to free traits in DDD. That is the only undeniable fact. You were just hoping it was free, apparently it isn't.

DDD is not worth a point on a unit that specialises in cqc and has a pistol. It's literally worthless in fact. If you can shoot your targets with a pistol you're within 12" and the neg to hit modifiers don't apply.

Please, do tell me how the massive nerf of both a pt increase and the 32mm base size isn't actually a nerf though.

Ah look, he just ignored my post and reframed my argument. Now that is face palm worthy. I just explained how you got a 3rd USR you didn't have. Not a clan trait, a brand new shinny USR. A point increase isn't a nerf when your getting something for it. Now, you can hate on DDD all you want, but I seem to recall half this thread derailing 30 pages back when Ork players were adamant this should be an ork only rule lol. You want exclusive access to a rule, you gotta pay for it.

Please explain how DDD is worth anything on Slugga Boys. You obviously have no idea what they are.

Please explain how DDD is worth anything on shoots boys.

Please explain how this AND the 32mm base is anything but a nerf to Boys. Your 'sidegrade' argument is patently false. Its completely wrong because, unless there's a change to make Boys more survivable they are now, without question, worse point for point. This is the definition of a nerf.

If you're just going to troll, which is literally all you seem to do in this thread, just leave.

His argument is that it’s worth it, because you can go from 0% hit chance, to 17% hit chance, due to -hit modifiers.

That sounds reasonable, but a 0% to 17% is a 17% increase, at best - which means, if you aren’t getting that always hits on 6s benefit with every attack, you’re actually getting less value than what you pay for; read, nerf.

DDD is a 2-5% increase in hits, at a 17% price increase in most scenarios - you can tell me if you think it’s worth it, but I don’t think it is,

If your ONLY targets all the time ARE -2 to hit stackers, then sure, it’s worth it; but... even then, you’re just breaking even.

I’d bet that we’ll be seeing “always hits on 6s” in CA this year - which means we’d be paying entirely for the 2-5% increase it hits, and just that.