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lolman1c wrote: the worst part about all this is that I've spent a few years now around people who have never even seen an Ork army never mind a Evil Sunz army like mine... Kinda made me feel special... now everyone is going to do speed freaks. XD I't selfish but it's the truth.
No but seriously, if they end up OP then everyone will just tell me I play them because they're OP even though I've played them in their worst for ages!
Lol I'm in exactly the same boat. But I can make even the strongest unit in the game weak if I want though so I'm sure I'll manage.
If they're too strong that my opponents don't have fun I'll twilpr my list to suit.
calm down English... let's not risk your account over a potential rumour from a french dude about a game... I feel like what the mod is saying is that everyone is getting way to angry with each other and flooding pages with debates that are going nowhere. I would miss you if you went missing .
Lol I heart you too man. Speaking of which. Where you been?!
I don't think I'm risking my account, asking for clarification on the rules and why this is off topic.
Point taken though, I'll stop biting at these sorts of comments. Hopefully the rumours are bogus or got lost in translation?
Reads as if each of the six new vehicles will be tied to a particular clan
If they are, can I still take them in the same detachment? I want to make a right an' proppa SpeedWAAAGH!, and I can't do that if I have to make 6 different detachments
I interpreted that as them just saying what each of the paint jobs was, not them saying they are locked to a Clan.
You're right Tzeentch. There's a pic of the other vehicles painted in Evil Sunz colours so they're definitely not linked to a clan by definition.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/12 19:50:24
lolman1c wrote: the worst part about all this is that I've spent a few years now around people who have never even seen an Ork army never mind a Evil Sunz army like mine... Kinda made me feel special... now everyone is going to do speed freaks. XD I't selfish but it's the truth.
No but seriously, if they end up OP then everyone will just tell me I play them because they're OP even though I've played them in their worst for ages!
Haha, I understand Still, if it's any consolation I've been wanting to do Speed Freeks for a longer time but felt that Orks kinda lacked the proper models for it (not really a big fan of the old buggy), but now that they're going to get that boatload of Mad Max racecars I can't wait to get started
meh I just painted my boyz red and said they're part of it. In the lore Evil Sunz still have mass boyz. They're the new orks who haven't gathered enough teef yet to buy a vehicle. It's also my I like trukks and wagons... they're just a bunch of orks who got together and saved up to buy a fast vehicle to all go into war like brothers!
lolman1c wrote: the worst part about all this is that I've spent a few years now around people who have never even seen an Ork army never mind a Evil Sunz army like mine... Kinda made me feel special... now everyone is going to do speed freaks. XD I't selfish but it's the truth.
No but seriously, if they end up OP then everyone will just tell me I play them because they're OP even though I've played them in their worst for ages!
Lol I'm in exactly the same boat. But I can make even the strongest unit in the game weak if I want though so I'm sure I'll manage.
If they're too strong that my opponents don't have fun I'll twilpr my list to suit.
calm down English... let's not risk your account over a potential rumour from a french dude about a game... I feel like what the mod is saying is that everyone is getting way to angry with each other and flooding pages with debates that are going nowhere. I would miss you if you went missing .
Lol I heart you too man. Speaking of which. Where you been?!
I don't think I'm risking my account, asking for clarification on the rules and why this is off topic.
Point taken though, I'll stop biting at these sorts of comments. Hopefully the rumours are bogus or got lost in translation?
Reads as if each of the six new vehicles will be tied to a particular clan
If they are, can I still take them in the same detachment? I want to make a right an' proppa SpeedWAAAGH!, and I can't do that if I have to make 6 different detachments
I interpreted that as them just saying what each of the paint jobs was, not them saying they are locked to a Clan.
You're right Tzeentch. There's a pic of the other vehicles painted in Evil Sunz colours so they're definitely not linked to a clan by definition.
I've been here, you've probably just missed me because I've not posted too much... I'm back in England after over half a year abroad teaching. I've just not had much to complain about recently... I've enjoyed most the previews so far. XD
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/12 20:05:34
Red Corsair wrote: Except when your shooting at something that you normally would have 0% chance of hitting your just gained not only 100% increase in your odds to hit, but also a second go around. Context matters mate.
A -1 to hit cuts in half Ork shooting.
-2 is comparatively rare. Suggesting that going from 0 to 16.6% hit probability is a 100% gain I think actually conceals a lot of that context.
The trait is meaningful relative to a meta that disadvantages low ballistic skill shooting.
The points increase has to be read relative to the overall value of the unit sum total relative to the other units in the game, and I just don,'t feel that jt's justified given everything you've brought up.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
the french rumor says all units are viable except the nob/bobbiker/meganob. if true i will shed a tear for all my nobz, but the rest of the codex being viable makes me very happy.
this means that even with 7ppm boys are still usefull.
this means that doing a biker and trukk speedwaagh alongside the new buggies is viable
and hopefully this means my dreddmob will finally kromp again.
heck, this might mean the stompa might be good again (hard to believe i know, but im hopeful).
"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket"
geargutz wrote: the french rumor says all units are viable except the nob/bobbiker/meganob. if true i will shed a tear for all my nobz, but the rest of the codex being viable makes me very happy.
this means that even with 7ppm boys are still usefull.
this means that doing a biker and trukk speedwaagh alongside the new buggies is viable
and hopefully this means my dreddmob will finally kromp again.
heck, this might mean the stompa might be good again (hard to believe i know, but im hopeful).
Don't worry it will take only 1 month and 1-2 tournaments to categorically decide that 95% of the codex is unusable trash in any kind of context or gameplay experience/community.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Chill. All of you. Otherwise, you might as well get upset by this ‘all Ork units are going up by 20% in terms of points and price, with significant rules nerfs. DDD only applies if you’ve expressly followed the Warhammer TV painting guide, and used Citadel Paints. All Tournament organisers have been issued spectrographic analysers, which they must use or Tom Kirby will ram all your closest living relatives up Mat Ward’s bum’.
And being a well documented former GW employee, don’t you dare question me!
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
That extra point covers boyz getting a Klan trait and strategem access too. DDD might not be worth a point, and could easily be seen as a bugfix so that -2 to hit doesn't make ork shooting pointless (and hence make orks reluctant to advance), but a 6++ on a 6 point model would be worth a point.
fe40k wrote: That sounds reasonable, but a 0% to 17% is a 17% increase, at best - which means, if you aren’t getting that always hits on 6s benefit with every attack, you’re actually getting less value than what you pay for; read, nerf.
Correct. And he discounts (completely) the high percentage of the time that a 7 point model actually has 0% to hit, before the rule.
The whole idea that a 7 point model is correctly pointed because it has a rule that allows it to shoot, and get a hit 1/6 of the time, when other, cheaper units get vastly more hits, is just trolling.
A devourer gaunt gets 1 and 1/2 st4 hits per turn, and has rules to boost even that. It's 8 points. Our 7 point model gets half of that output, for 7/8th the price. Anyone who thinks this is fair is just trolling.
No model is worth 7 points that only gets 1 st4 hit every 1-1/2 turns (or frequently every 3rd turn as BS6+), while at the same time dying to paper cuts. All of the rules in the world do not matter if a unit has negligible output.
I never discounted anything. The frequency of hit mods are not something I can objectively assume. If your advancing (which if your not your orking wrong) and shooting any flier or any eldar for the most part, stigys 8, raven guard or Alpha legion your at 0%. In my meta that's more then half the field, I am not going to attempt to try and guess everyone elses, but I am pretty sure those things I listed are all fairly popular.
Crap I somehow forgot every Tyranid army as well lol. So yea, not exactly a rare occurrence for my meta at least. If your playing in a soft core area where hit mods are rare then yea, it's kind of a flat perk for sure.
Sorry about the trolling comment.
Biggest complaint, of course, is IG. With almost the same output & durability, they are (now) 4/7 of the price...almost double the point efficiency. Add orders onto that (and no, our strats and traits won't compare to the IG strats and traits in addition to orders), they are more than double the efficiency.
If shootas are 7, guardsmen better be going up to 8.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tastyfish wrote: That extra point covers boyz getting a Klan trait and strategem access too. DDD might not be worth a point, and could easily be seen as a bugfix so that -2 to hit doesn't make ork shooting pointless (and hence make orks reluctant to advance), but a 6++ on a 6 point model would be worth a point.
Where is the guardsmen's point increase for getting klan traits?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/12 20:28:43
geargutz wrote: the french rumor says all units are viable except the nob/bobbiker/meganob. if true i will shed a tear for all my nobz, but the rest of the codex being viable makes me very happy.
this means that even with 7ppm boys are still usefull.
this means that doing a biker and trukk speedwaagh alongside the new buggies is viable
and hopefully this means my dreddmob will finally kromp again.
heck, this might mean the stompa might be good again (hard to believe i know, but im hopeful).
Don't worry it will take only 1 month and 1-2 tournaments to categorically decide that 95% of the codex is unusable trash in any kind of context or gameplay experience/community.
Well in terms of viability I think we can at least bet that the stuff related to Speed Freeks will be decent. GW will want to sell models and good rules makes that happen. So bikes and buggies I reckon will have a place.
120pt Battlewagons sound plausible to me. I wonder how much Trukks are?
It'll be interesting to see how the weapons are priced, that for me will make or break the Dreadmob list and it'll help with the mechanised list.
The stratagems will make or break the ability of the codex to compete really and on that we have so far rumours of 2 stratagems that give mortal wounds which was an area I feel we were lacking so happy days (both related to vehicles - one on the charge and the other with the Trike boss).
I don't think that ITC requires you to rebase models if they are on what the base they came with. I wonder how they will handle this.
Also, what does it mean for all other Ork models that are larger than Grots but are currently on small bases? It would be silly to have Boyz on bigger bases than Nobz. What about Stormboyz, Lootas, Tankbustas, Burnaboyz, all the characters on small bases? Will all of those go to 32mm as well? If so, I will have to buy about 600x 32mm bases and rebase that many models.
Also, what does it mean for all other Ork models that are larger than Grots but are currently on small bases? It would be silly to have Boyz on bigger bases than Nobz. What about Stormboyz, Lootas, Tankbustas, Burnaboyz, all the characters on small bases? Will all of those go to 32mm as well? If so, I will have to buy about 600x 32mm bases and rebase that many models.
Red Corsair wrote: It's not really a nerf though.I'd call it a step to the side. They are getting Dakka dakka dakka, it's hard to justify a regular boy at 6ppm when they have mob rule, ear we go and DDD and THEN they get a clan trait. Especially when you look at the profile they have. The big issue orks had wasn't so much the infantry it was the prices of the other units. Sounds like everything else is getting the needed boosts. I still think the biggest issue against Ork viability from competition is going to be logistical. With 32mm bases and that giant oval the buggies are coming with, it is going to be desperate times figuring out where/how to deploy all your models and not have them get into eachothers way. If an army with flyers, particularly the eldar variety, go first they can hem your whole line in with their base. I really hope there are a lot of fun ways to move these guys around.
They went up a point and are on 32mm bases. A CQC focused unit. DDD makes them able to hit things that we literally had to just stare at before. It allows us to play the game. It's hardly a buff, particularly to a unit that isn't exactly known for its damage at range.
It's a massive, undeniable nerf.
Let's hope they have 5+ armour or something to balance things out...
It's certainly deniable. You gained a solid army wide rule that isn't related to free traits in DDD. That is the only undeniable fact. You were just hoping it was free, apparently it isn't.
No other factions models went up in price, because of the addition of sub-faction rules+traits and junk.
DDD is a joke of a rule; it sounds fun, but it’s 2/5 extra hits per 100 shots (depending if BS6/5). Pre-wounding/armor saves btw, so you might get ONE or TWO extra kills; per 100! shots. No ork unit has that much firepower to begin with (Shoota Boyz get halfway...), so...
For 210 points of boys, you get an additional 1-2 hits, at the cost of 30 extra points for the squad; and this is with no other combat related changes. That’s if you took SHOOTAS instead of CHOPPAS; which itself is a massive reduction of the units role - I love me shoots Boyz, but let’s not pretend that 1-2 hits makes them that amazing they deserved a nerf.
DDD is a rule for 8th edition, not for Orks. DDD is passable on Grots (and other 4+ to Grots, but since it doesn’t get effected by +1 modifiers, it really doesn’t do much either way). No unit should ever have been unable to be hit; hits should always land on 6’s, and miss on 1’s.
Don’t kid yourself into thinking DDD actually does anything useful.
Edit: On topic, looking forward to the codex; I love the new model designs. Waiting until November was a mistake, since Artifact+Keyforge release at the end of that month as well, and will eat into Ork player budgets if they’re into card games at all. Hope the Ork codex is balanced all around; and not just a few good units with the rest being trash - I want a balanced army, not an opfotm army.
DDD increases damage output by 16%, the same as one markerlight. It has exactly the same effect on Orks as on Tau drones.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/12 22:30:58
JimOnMars wrote: Where is the guardsmen's point increase for getting klan traits?
Maybe in chapter approved, last balance for them was trying to get the internal balance between them and conscripts right (and this is not the only thread that questions their point cost) - but that's not the point. We're just talking ork boyz here.
Presumably if they're going up a point, playtesting during the development of the ork codex found that they were probably a bit too cheap at 6 points. Possibly down to internal balance, but I could believe that it could also be down to the traits being a little more significant than some of the other factions traits given orks already come with a speed boost and morale mitigation.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/12 21:29:38
Anyone else notice this paragraph from the Speedfreaks article?
“With so many Orks on Vigilus, constantly testing the defences of the great hivesprawls (not to mention other enemies lurking within the dark places of the cities), it is only a matter of time before the Speedwaaagh! overcomes the Imperial defences and the racers get a whole new set of dangerous routes to race across and new enemies to test their wagons and bikes against.”
Kinda sounds like an expansion for Speedfreaks beyond the basic game..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/12 22:17:54
Really it sounds like "Vigilus" is going to bring "new enemies" (aka new imperial units) rather than more ork boxes by the sounds of that quote.
Maybe but i'm not hearing more speed-freaks from that quote. Maybe the "and wagons" part. Maybe we could be getting a looted wagon kit?!? Wasn't there a rumor about that?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/12 22:56:08
Jidmah wrote: 120 for a battlewagon, huh? That might just be low enough, I wonder what the trukk ended up with and what a deff rolla will cost.
I also love the return of the Warphead (lvl 2 psyker).
Oh, and is that a confirmation of nob bikers being in the codex? Me happy, I was afraid they were becoming display pieces
I mean...TEEEEECHNICALLY games workshop makes a nob biker figure in plastic.
You just need a lot of biker kits to field a unit of them
You can put nobz from the nobz box on warbikes, the bodies fit perfectly. This is how GW told us to build them when they were released.
Second option is to use spare nob torsos from boyz boxes on warbiker feet.
Last, but not least, FW actually sells a nob biker kit.
So maybe that's good enough for "has a model".
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, what the hell happened to the thread? Have you considered that 6ppm might have been too good in the context of the new codex?
There was a rumor of someone overhearing playtesters claiming that the ork codex was broken as gak and sent back to development because of that.
Oh, also remember how everyone was crying in anger how boyz were nerfed from 7th ed and utterly useless in 8th?
There is no way to tell if 7ppm boyz is fine or not without knowing more context, so go easy for once.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/12 23:14:32
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
I'm pretty certain that with no other changes than the inclusion of DDD 32mm boys that cost 7 ppm are significantly worse than their current index counterparts. I'd say this is a fact, actually. I think its pretty clear that DDD is not worth a point on Boys. I also think its strange we 'pay' for Clan rules when no other faction has to date.
As almost everyone has said - if there are other buffs to balance out the cost increase then fair enough, a 5+ save would be welcome. But what we know now points to Boys becoming significantly worse.
This is further compounded by other units receiving no points increase in the FAQ. They will thus be worse compared to index Boys and relative to other units that have not been changed. Again if Infantry, FW, Kabalites etc get an increase fair enough, but we can only work with the rumours at hand and they don't look good for our primary troop choice.
I don't think that ITC requires you to rebase models if they are on what the base they came with. I wonder how they will handle this.
Also, what does it mean for all other Ork models that are larger than Grots but are currently on small bases? It would be silly to have Boyz on bigger bases than Nobz. What about Stormboyz, Lootas, Tankbustas, Burnaboyz, all the characters on small bases? Will all of those go to 32mm as well? If so, I will have to buy about 600x 32mm bases and rebase that many models.
Poppin in here to toss out an idea.
You can bulk buy 32mm conversion rings for this sort of thing. It's not the most ideal situation, and honestly I don't think it will matter in any setting aside from tournaments, but it's there. I know I'd be irate to have to rebase my gaunts/gants onto 32s... though I think I'd take the hit if it was genestealers getting bumped up. They look better and don't get hooked on everything with all their claws....
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
That's something I'm going to approach with skepticism until I see this codex.
The Evil Suns clan trait is by far the standout, and it restores orks up to 6" movement speed. Cool, I guess?
Or is it the super OP warlord trait that let's you teleport on turn 2?
I'll not assume either way, but I'm not going to default optimism to bad news. They historically adjusted shootas to 7 ppm. It's quite apparent that this is something they feel is baked into the statline. It's not like MEQs are priced in accordance with the ravenguard chapter tactics. They are literally priced to it's exclusion.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I'm pretty certain that with no other changes than the inclusion of DDD 32mm boys that cost 7 ppm are significantly worse than their current index counterparts. I'd say this is a fact, actually. I think its pretty clear that DDD is not worth a point on Boys. I also think its strange we 'pay' for Clan rules when no other faction has to date.
As almost everyone has said - if there are other buffs to balance out the cost increase then fair enough, a 5+ save would be welcome. But what we know now points to Boys becoming significantly worse.
This is further compounded by other units receiving no points increase in the FAQ. They will thus be worse compared to index Boys and relative to other units that have not been changed. Again if Infantry, FW, Kabalites etc get an increase fair enough, but we can only work with the rumours at hand and they don't look good for our primary troop choice.
I'd put money on the playtesting not being done with 32mm boyz. It's going to be people using their existing armies - I doubt we'll see GW make the suggested base size official in their tournaments, at least for some time.
Think it's just a bigger issue for fantasy given if you get an old army on ebay or old stock, the bases aren't even the right shape.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I'm pretty certain that with no other changes than the inclusion of DDD 32mm boys that cost 7 ppm are significantly worse than their current index counterparts. I'd say this is a fact, actually. I think its pretty clear that DDD is not worth a point on Boys. I also think its strange we 'pay' for Clan rules when no other faction has to date.
Bollocks. We are not paying for DDD and we are not paying for clan rules, and what other factions do doesn't matter one bit to orks. The one thing that matters is that orks, as a whole, work. Feth humies and spikey pansies, they will get their reward sooner or later.
I'll just go from the bold claim that anything but nobz is viable now (though I still wonder how they managed to make foot nobz worse than 7pt boyz).
We get lootas and planes that can actually alpha-strike something off the board.
We get psykers that can cast two powers, and probably at least one other useful power next to da jump
We get relics and warlord traits that enable warbosses to flip tanks again
We get stratagems that make key units harder to kill
We get stratagems that make boyz fight again
Now apply all that to a current ork green tide tournament list.
It might have turned out a tad too powerful and therefore boyz went up. The play tested some more and then it was fine. That's how play-testing is supposed to work.
And don't you dare start the argument about how play-testers should have let it slip through because they failed at their job for other codices.
As almost everyone has said - if there are other buffs to balance out the cost increase then fair enough, a 5+ save would be welcome. But what we know now points to Boys becoming significantly worse.
Or something trivial like green tide applying for 10+ models to make trukk boyz not suck...
Which leads me back to:
Jidmah wrote:There is no way to tell if 7ppm boyz is fine or not without knowing more context, so go easy for once.
This is further compounded by other units receiving no points increase in the FAQ.
Except GW told us that all point changes will be done in CA.
They will thus be worse compared to index Boys and relative to other units that have not been changed.
Unless those units are dead because they were shot at and run over twice by an ork food truck and eaten by a squig afterwards.
Again if Infantry, FW, Kabalites etc get an increase fair enough, but we can only work with the rumours at hand and they don't look good for our primary troop choice.
Go cuddle with da 'umies, fish'eads and spikey pansies if ya like 'em dat much, ya git!
"we can only work with the rumours at hand and they don't look good for our primary troop choice."
Or we could just wait till we know more instead of loosing our mind based on limited information.
Friggin' GW is making fun of ork players, ork threads have become more toxic than the "everybody hates peregrine"-thread and get locked twice a day and the ork community is dying because every attempt to discuss anything is drowned out a bunch of people telling everyone how GW is the worst company ever, over and over again.
Don't you think it's about time to return to rational discussion and abandon the "orks are offended by everything"-movement?
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: I won't be all that bothered if Orks going to 7ppm alongside guardsme and other types going up 1 point as well. As long as there are other competitive options presented to us and we are freed from boy spam it will be a net gain for Orks.
Edit: Yeah count me in the DDD being weak and not worth boat. I would never pay a ppm for it anything that's not a pure shooting unit.
Ah yeah having classic playstyle completely removed is net gain right...GW making marketing decisions not related to game balance at all is after all soooooo great. Well enjoy when your favourite units gets nerfed to death.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
fe40k wrote: Let’s be real with ourselves; Boyz are 7ppm because they were the most popular ork units at tournaments, and because it forces players to buy newer/other models.
If that\s the way GW balances things around...Lol. They were popular because they were best of the bad but they were still not competive units. They weren't used much because they were good but because they were only unit that would not mean wipeout in turn 2-3.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Red Corsair wrote: [quo Ah look, he just ignored my post and reframed my argument. Now that is face palm worthy. I just explained how you got a 3rd USR you didn't have. Not a clan trait, a brand new shinny USR. A point increase isn't a nerf when your getting something for it. Now, you can hate on DDD all you want, but I seem to recall half this thread derailing 30 pages back when Ork players were adamant this should be an ork only rule lol. You want exclusive access to a rule, you gotta pay for it.
Oh gee. Orks get something others got as well AND are hit by double nerf along. You think orks got something unique to themselves that justifies price hike. THEY DID NOT!
This is simple standard "we have sold lots of boyz, time to nerf them to death so people buy something else instead" move by GW that they are doing all the time. They don't care about balance. Just that every once in a while what was good before is nerfed to death and what was bad is boosted enough they suddenly sold.
We got new rules(others got it as well), nerf AND point cost. What is actually unique to ork is that we got nerf to our units as well as point hike. Rules? Those others got as well. DDD isn't unique in that regard.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/13 05:05:46
An Actual Englishman wrote: I'm pretty certain that with no other changes than the inclusion of DDD 32mm boys that cost 7 ppm are significantly worse than their current index counterparts. I'd say this is a fact, actually. I think its pretty clear that DDD is not worth a point on Boys. I also think its strange we 'pay' for Clan rules when no other faction has to date.
As almost everyone has said - if there are other buffs to balance out the cost increase then fair enough, a 5+ save would be welcome. But what we know now points to Boys becoming significantly worse.
This is further compounded by other units receiving no points increase in the FAQ. They will thus be worse compared to index Boys and relative to other units that have not been changed. Again if Infantry, FW, Kabalites etc get an increase fair enough, but we can only work with the rumours at hand and they don't look good for our primary troop choice.
FAQ isn’t where points would be increased, that would be Chapter Approved.
Bollocks. We are not paying for DDD and we are not paying for clan rules, and what other factions do doesn't matter one bit to orks. The one thing that matters is that orks, as a whole, work. Feth humies and spikey pansies, they will get their reward sooner or later.
I'll just go from the bold claim that anything but nobz is viable now (though I still wonder how they managed to make foot nobz worse than 7pt boyz).
We get lootas and planes that can actually alpha-strike something off the board.
We get psykers that can cast two powers, and probably at least one other useful power next to da jump
We get relics and warlord traits that enable warbosses to flip tanks again
We get stratagems that make key units harder to kill
We get stratagems that make boyz fight again
Now apply all that to a current ork green tide tournament list.
It might have turned out a tad too powerful and therefore boyz went up. The play tested some more and then it was fine. That's how play-testing is supposed to work.
Please stop using logic and facts in the tneva Hyperbole Thread. How dare you offer a reasonable explanation for a 16% point increase that somehow turns units from good to COMPLETELY UNPLAYABLE.
1st" dont expect the discourse to get any better if you insult. im not the best at restraining myself about this, but i at least understand the fact that you wont get a reasonable discussion with anyone if you throw around "Go cuddle with da 'umies"
2nd."GW is making fun of ork players" GW makes fun of everyone, but they will be more sarcastic with others if they are more rowdy (like everyone bemoaning the loss of fly or whatever). after the orks are appeased it will be the next group of players that will get made fun of.
3rd. "drowned out a bunch of people telling everyone how GW is the worst company ever, over and over again." ok, so there are ork players who are a little historical and loud about it, but there are plenty of ork players who provide reasonable arguments. dont paint the whole community with the few cases like any other "anti orker" right now. your buying into that negativity and spreading it.
4th. "Don't you think it's about time to return to rational discussion" reference to my 1st point above. discourse is not going to get better if the insults keep flying.
now for my own thoughts. i was never one for green tide, i prefer all our cool vehicles. and i can see it being for internal balance and possibly isn't tied to just the addition of DDD and traits, but i can also see this as a way for GW to "sell other things".
but lets be honest. some of us are getting upset over these rumors of 7pt ork. and while many say "dont get worked up,wait till we see the dex", and i kinda agree with that, but i also see where all this anxiety is coming from.
if you can then look at it from this perspective. orktober has been hit or miss. cool new vehicles are awesome but no new rules are being previewed at all. infact the most reliable rules are coming from the leakers and from rumors. at this point many of us have more faith in what we hear from the rumors. also, the index and the 7th edition codex and waaaagh ghazkull supplement are all pretty dull thuds of rules. GW has shafted us ork player many times in the past, and while GW has done many factions good this edition they have still shafted others (greyknights,admek,spacewoves from what i hear). there is that chance that we can get shafted again and hearing that the only thing that was keeping us barely competitive are possibly going to be 7ppm.
if you take a moment to try to see it from that angle then you might understand why many ork players are less then thrilled. so top trying to perpetuate the myth of "all ork players are stupid whiners!"
"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket"
If you see that as an "insult", you really should take time off posting on dakka and read some decent ork novel, flip through an old codex or read some ork posts on a WH40k wiki of your choice. You are obviously suffering from serious withdrawal effects from too little orkyness.
Ya weedy git.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/13 07:19:47
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Will everyone be jumping on the Ork bandwagon? I have a small force of about 20 blood axe kommados I painted up for kill team and am tempted to expand them into a full army but if they become massively overused I might not bother
But I can make even the strongest unit in the game weak if I want though so I'm sure I'll manage.
. 
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
