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TedNugent wrote: I'm really looking forward to the warbiker rules, but what is really intriguing is going to be the cost. You guys poo pooing their inclusion in the box are forgetting that they were not listed as one of the nonviable units in the French video, and you must be forgetting just how good they were in 7th.
Same, though to be fair, I think a lot of people are looking at bikes in general this edition and are cautious of getting too excited for them. Are there any good bike units other than eldar stuff?
But if you give the dakkaguns another shot each and drop them a few points I think they could have some real potential. Especially considering clan traits and possibly some stratagems..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 08:00:00
Tastyfish wrote:I do hope GW learn from this though, or Dakka is going to be unbearable once Sisters aren't up for preorder on Jan 1st.
Given they’ve never said they would be, it would be another mess of the fans’ making, like the expectations built around a one-word month pun have been.
Let's hope releases aren't stretched out to Janu-Waaaaagh_ry!
I still want to add some vanes to a buggy and a pointy ear mask to an Ork driver for a Bat-Ork vibe.
TedNugent wrote: I'm really looking forward to the warbiker rules, but what is really intriguing is going to be the cost. You guys poo pooing their inclusion in the box are forgetting that they were not listed as one of the nonviable units in the French video, and you must be forgetting just how good they were in 7th.
Same, though to be fair, I think a lot of people are looking at bikes in general this edition and are cautious of getting too excited for them. Are there any good bike units other than eldar stuff?
But if you give the dakkaguns another shot each and drop them a few points I think they could have some real potential. Especially considering clan traits and possibly some stratagems..
Scout Bikes, Custode bikes, shining spears, Drukhari bikes are pretty good as well.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
TedNugent wrote: I'm really looking forward to the warbiker rules, but what is really intriguing is going to be the cost. You guys poo pooing their inclusion in the box are forgetting that they were not listed as one of the nonviable units in the French video, and you must be forgetting just how good they were in 7th.
Same, though to be fair, I think a lot of people are looking at bikes in general this edition and are cautious of getting too excited for them. Are there any good bike units other than eldar stuff?
But if you give the dakkaguns another shot each and drop them a few points I think they could have some real potential. Especially considering clan traits and possibly some stratagems..
Scout Bikes, Custode bikes, shining spears, Drukhari bikes are pretty good as well.
Half that list IS the "eldar stuff". So basically scout bikes and custodes bikes. Ork bikers won't be anywhere near style of custodes bikes so guess best you could hope is hefty price decrease, extra shot or two and MW on flee strategem to make them like scout bikes.
To be fair, eldar wind rinders suck big time. When our local eldar players brings his all jetbike army. it usually ends up tabled by turn 3, similar to ork bikes.
IMO orks warbikers will succeed or fail depending on their point costs and whether exhaust cloud makes a comeback to protect them.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Having 6 bikes in the kit would be a pretty nice small force to add to my collection. I honestly hope they get a huge price decrease (25% would be nice but might be just a dream). And perhaps get an automatic 6" advance.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: To be fair, eldar wind rinders suck big time. When our local eldar players brings his all jetbike army. it usually ends up tabled by turn 3, similar to ork bikes.
IMO orks warbikers will succeed or fail depending on their point costs and whether exhaust cloud makes a comeback to protect them.
I've seen a few eldar armies bring unique builds and get tabled. But normally it's in an elite tournament environment where every single unit needs to be efficient or you're already behind. In casual games they're not amazing but they're not auto lose. (This might just be from the games I've seen though). However, Ork bikers just get smashed even in casual games.... but again, this is in the games I've seen and everyone might have different experiences.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 11:26:47
TedNugent wrote: I'm really looking forward to the warbiker rules, but what is really intriguing is going to be the cost. You guys poo pooing their inclusion in the box are forgetting that they were not listed as one of the nonviable units in the French video, and you must be forgetting just how good they were in 7th.
Same, though to be fair, I think a lot of people are looking at bikes in general this edition and are cautious of getting too excited for them. Are there any good bike units other than eldar stuff?
But if you give the dakkaguns another shot each and drop them a few points I think they could have some real potential. Especially considering clan traits and possibly some stratagems..
Scout Bikes, Custode bikes, shining spears, Drukhari bikes are pretty good as well.
Half that list IS the "eldar stuff". So basically scout bikes and custodes bikes. Ork bikers won't be anywhere near style of custodes bikes so guess best you could hope is hefty price decrease, extra shot or two and MW on flee strategem to make them like scout bikes.
Am I missing any? if so, crying foul because "Half the list is eldar" seems a bit silly because half the bike units in 40k are Eldar of some flavor, and I've seen the majority of that list show up in tournament lists.
Bikes are not a problem. Index pricing of bikes is a problem. Marine bikes are still index priced, as are ork bikes, and those are the big ones you don't see.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Looks like retailers are just getting the pricing info in for Speed Freeks
Model Kits for Less has just posted that it's £90, which is a bit more than I was hoping for with not all of it being new, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised
Am I missing any? if so, crying foul because "Half the list is eldar" seems a bit silly because half the bike units in 40k are Eldar of some flavor, and I've seen the majority of that list show up in tournament lists.
Bikes are not a problem. Index pricing of bikes is a problem. Marine bikes are still index priced, as are ork bikes, and those are the big ones you don't see.
Just Tomblades I reckon. Also should include Nob bikerz if you're adding different flavours of eldar bikes too. But, yes, 1/3 of all bikes are Eldar.
Am I missing any? if so, crying foul because "Half the list is eldar" seems a bit silly because half the bike units in 40k are Eldar of some flavor, and I've seen the majority of that list show up in tournament lists.
Bikes are not a problem. Index pricing of bikes is a problem. Marine bikes are still index priced, as are ork bikes, and those are the big ones you don't see.
And how many of those are good? Regular marine bikes I have never heard being praised in 8th...Or ravenwing...
Only ones who are consistently good with bikes is eldars but then again eldars are eldars. Orks aren't eldars and don't have consistently good rules like eldars have.
Saying ork warbikes are good because eldars have good bikes is dishonest. Eldars tend to have better than average chance of being good so them having good bikes isn't indicative that ork bikers will be good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 12:03:57
Am I missing any? if so, crying foul because "Half the list is eldar" seems a bit silly because half the bike units in 40k are Eldar of some flavor, and I've seen the majority of that list show up in tournament lists.
Bikes are not a problem. Index pricing of bikes is a problem. Marine bikes are still index priced, as are ork bikes, and those are the big ones you don't see.
And how many of those are good? Regular marine bikes I have never heard being praised in 8th...Or ravenwing...
Only ones who are consistently good with bikes is eldars but then again eldars are eldars. Orks aren't eldars and don't have consistently good rules like eldars have.
Saying ork warbikes are good because eldars have good bikes is dishonest. Eldars tend to have better than average chance of being good so them having good bikes isn't indicative that ork bikers will be good.
How quickly people forget just how "consistently" Dark Eldar and Harlequins have had good rules...
My overall point is not "eldar bikes are good therefore ork bikes will be good." my point is that bikes in general have found a pretty decent niche in 8th ed, because mobility is still a fairly useful thing for a unit to hang their hat on. Ork bikes definitely don't seem to be a "broken unit" whose rules need a total overhaul to be useful - they just need to be priced appropriately for their power.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
On this basis expecting buggies to be a max of £35-40
Ouch! This is my biggest complaint with Orks. They're real life pricing. For some reason GW thinks £30-40 for what should be a cheap pts unit is acceptable. Look at the mek gunz for example, or the storm boyz.. £90 seems a little expensive (was hoping for £75).
But, let's analyse this. GW does say that it will cost less than all the models separately so...
90-48 (bikers) = 42. 42÷ 2 =16 so yeah... we're looking at £30-40 for the buggies. Our only hope is they include the price of the scenery and the matt which might make the buggies about £25 each.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 15:57:13
On this basis expecting buggies to be a max of £35-40
Ouch! This is my biggest complaint with Orks. They're real life pricing. For some reason GW thinks £30-40 for what should be a cheap pts unit is acceptable. Look at the mek gunz for example, or the storm boyz.. £90 seems a little expensive (was hoping for £75).
Storm Boyz are 5 for $25. They have been for some time, and comparing them to an equivalent unit(Assault Marines had been $35 at the time) from the time you'd see they're cheaper than most expected.
Da Vulcha Skwad Box is apparently still available and it nets you a $12.25 discount on Stormboyz.
Additionally, Mek Gunz are one of the things they've specifically called out themselves as being too expensive. They're a candidate for reboxing or discount boxes. We'll have to see if they get some.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 13:23:01
On this basis expecting buggies to be a max of £35-40
Ouch! This is my biggest complaint with Orks. They're real life pricing. For some reason GW thinks £30-40 for what should be a cheap pts unit is acceptable. Look at the mek gunz for example, or the storm boyz.. £90 seems a little expensive (was hoping for £75).
Storm Boyz are 5 for $25. They have been for some time, and comparing them to an equivalent unit(Assault Marines had been $35 at the time) from the time you'd see they're cheaper than most expected.
Da Vulcha Skwad Box is apparently still available and it nets you a $12.25 discount on Stormboyz.
Additionally, Mek Gunz are one of the things they've specifically called out themselves as being too expensive. They're a candidate for reboxing or discount boxes. We'll have to see if they get some.
The difference is Stormboyz are a 40pts unit that has a 6 up save and no deep strike. An Assualt squad is a 65pts unit (likely more with all the special weapons) with a 3+ save and DS. You could buy 1 or 2 boxes of Assualt marines and happily add them to you army in 1 or 2 squads with no problem or need to buy more. To run stormboyz effectively you're looking at 20- 30 unit blobs minimum with at least 2 blobs. Even if you ran just 1 30 man blob you're looking at $150. I mean, the rules encourage it by giving them moral bonuses for bigger blobs and there is no way I'm running a 5 man S4 6+save unit that takes (not deals) mortal wounds on a 1 for advancing and charging.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm hearing on ither sites the price is being listed for £95 (forgebane price).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/15 13:37:55
The difference is Stormboyz are a 40pts unit that has a 6 up save and no deep strike. An Assualt squad is a 65pts unit (likely more with all the special weapons) with a 3+ save and DS. You could buy 1 or 2 boxes of Assualt marines and happily add them to you army 2ith no problem. To run stormboyz effectively you're looking at 20- 30 unit blobs minimum with at least 2. Even if you ran just 1 30 man blob you're looking at $150.
Yeah, I get it. They're expensive to run in large numbers. They're still cheaper than Scions at $35 for the same number of models per box.
Or are you going to say that "Scions have a 4+ save" next?
You're also ignoring that at the time of their introduction, the only similar plastic unit(Assault Squad) was $10 more--and that same unit is now $16 more.
I'm going to throw something out there and say painboys going from 5+ to 6+ was rough.
My mind keeps going back to painboys when I think about blood axe and death skull and snakebite strategems.
Snakebite 6+++ will be cancelled out by painboys aura. It will possibly not be usable on vehicles. The death skull 6++ will be useless on vehicles apart from lascannons and meltas, but will be useful on boys and characters as well as going nicely with painboys aura for a little oomph, with the downside of being worthless when the enemy has no AP even on boys.
The blood axe strategems seems most broadly useful, especially on trukks, warbikes, good on boys and fabulous on kommandos. The only downside is that it is irrelevant in combat, but provides the most durability increase against shooting.
All of these seem inferior to the evil Suns trait on foot mobs, which it seems would benefit most strongly from the advance, charge and movement, especially shootas boys.
The faster units like bikes and storm boys I am on the fence about but lean towards the durability clans.
I have no idea how anybody can seriously consider the blood moons and Goff clan traits. The goffs one seems like overkill and the bad moons one is only maybe worth gaming for DDD with hit modifiers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 14:29:08
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
TedNugent wrote: I'm going to throw something out there and say painboys going from 5+ to 6+ was rough.
I think we can all mostly agree about that. With the drop in FNP and losing the ability to have 'ard armor it really neutered any ability to run resilient boyz. I feel it is what created the necessity to run horde orks, other than all of our other stuff being insanely overpriced.
I would love to see and boys come back, personally.
If boys do go up in price, kommandos as line infantry - esp with Snikrot and 6" movement speed across the board - and the blood axe clan trait - that is a bargain and I could conceivably see the same scenario in 40k as in killteam.
Blood axes kommandos would in contrast to boys be superbly durable and move at a comfortable clip, while being versatile in transports, showing up unannounced in back field on turn 2 in any comfortable quantity, or even being durable and robust foot troops.
I'd be tempted to go that route instead of boys and just get minimum backfield grots.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 14:51:50
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
TedNugent wrote: I'm really looking forward to the warbiker rules, but what is really intriguing is going to be the cost. You guys poo pooing their inclusion in the box are forgetting that they were not listed as one of the nonviable units in the French video, and you must be forgetting just how good they were in 7th.
Same, though to be fair, I think a lot of people are looking at bikes in general this edition and are cautious of getting too excited for them. Are there any good bike units other than eldar stuff?
But if you give the dakkaguns another shot each and drop them a few points I think they could have some real potential. Especially considering clan traits and possibly some stratagems..
Scout Bikes, Custode bikes, shining spears, Drukhari bikes are pretty good as well.
I will say that I actually think the scout bikes are unsung heroes of the SM codex, they're pretty similar to ork bikes but with way better BS and have a niche I've found. The custodes jetbikes are barely bikes IMO, since their price is vastly different than almost all other bike units..
I think all bike units are looking pale in comparison to shining spears though. They're 33 points each whereas an Ork warbike is 27 so hopefully something will be done to bridge that gap (and it's not unlikely that SS are getting a price hike)
I hope we get a few more shots with dakkaguns, maybe a bonus to strength/extra attack on the charge & maybe a 3 point decrease per bike
lolman1c wrote: Having 6 bikes in the kit would be a pretty nice small force to add to my collection. I honestly hope they get a huge price decrease (25% would be nice but might be just a dream). And perhaps get an automatic 6" advance.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: To be fair, eldar wind rinders suck big time. When our local eldar players brings his all jetbike army. it usually ends up tabled by turn 3, similar to ork bikes.
IMO orks warbikers will succeed or fail depending on their point costs and whether exhaust cloud makes a comeback to protect them.
I've seen a few eldar armies bring unique builds and get tabled. But normally it's in an elite tournament environment where every single unit needs to be efficient or you're already behind. In casual games they're not amazing but they're not auto lose. (This might just be from the games I've seen though). However, Ork bikers just get smashed even in casual games.... but again, this is in the games I've seen and everyone might have different experiences.
The list-building in our group is pretty casual. However, those bikes have nothing but T4/4+ to protect themselves, any plasma gun more powerful than a bolter pointed their way causes a massive loss of points for the eldar player. They are very similar to ork bikes in almost every regard, except they are actually supported by their codex through psychic powers, re-roll auras, stratagems and traits.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Shotgun 12" Assault 2 S3 AP0 D1 If target is within half range S+1
Stikksquig 6" Grenade d6 S3 AP0 D1
Saw blades Melee S+1 AP-1 D1
Abilities: Ere we go, Dakkadakkadakka, speed mob (we don't have any info on this right?)
Grot gunner: Add 1 to heavy squig launcher attack rolls (I'm guessing that means hit rolls)
Riding shotgun: When this model shoots, it can throw grenades and fire with its pistols in addition to any other weapons
Squig mine: Once per battle, at any point during this models move, place squig mine within 1" of this model and more than 3" from enemy models. Squig mine is represented by a squig mine model but does not count as a model for rules purposes. From the start of the next phase the squig mine is detonated whenany unit (friend or foe) moves within 3" of it. Resolve detonation after the unit that detonated it finishes its move. Roll a d6 on 2-3 one mortal wound on the unit that detonated it. on 4-5 it inflicts d3 mortal wounds on the unit that detonated it, on a 6 it inflicts 3 mortal wounds on the unit that detonated it. Remove squig mine from the battlefiel after it is detonated.
Explodes:
When wounds reduced to 0 roll a d6. On a 6, it explodes and units within 3" suffer d3 mortal wounds
I've tried to write everything verbatim but there might be some spelling mistakes. However let's be nice to the guy and click on the link so I've not "stolen" any views considering he's doing our community a solid here. This is simply for people who can't watch it right now/ dislike looking at videos
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/10/15 17:00:08
Seems like it's going to be annoying trying to optimise which squig is best against which target. 'Blue squig' seems like a strange name... would have thought 'gas squig' or 'poison squig' would be more appropriate.
Shotgun is identical to the standard imperial one, right? Wonder if it is wielded by an ork, in which case it is a straight downgrade from a shoota, or a grot, in which case maybe we can look forward to the different styles of grot blasta getting their own statlines? Always seemed odd to me that they have such different weapons on the models but all use the same rules.
EDIT: it's also really slow. 10" is Leman Russ speed.
EDIT 2: squig mine rules seem over-complicated. Rolling to decide what dice to roll? I know that's GW's whole game design style, but completely unnecessary.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/15 16:06:43
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
Renegades - 