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Well that was part of the original discussion. But they could have changed or written down wrong/poorly in the original leak. But the generic one is a monstrous trait

Geeez, +1 Attack from warlord trait and then another +2 from Fists of Gork. With the New PK (if the leaked stats are true), thats gonna be silly on a warboss

Soo... are Weirdboyz (or psykers in general) able to cast spells from open-topped vehicles? Fists of Gork sounds awesome on my soon-to-be-bought Trikeboss but he'll need a Trukk or Battlewagon to ride to even keep up wiith him (20" movement for Trikeboss T1 most likely).

Pandabeer wrote:
Soo... are Weirdboyz (or psykers in general) able to cast spells from open-topped vehicles? Fists of Gork sounds awesome on my soon-to-be-bought Trikeboss but he'll need a Trukk or Battlewagon to ride to even keep up wiith him (20" movement for Trikeboss T1 most likely).

They can't now, so I don't see why they would be able to in the new codex.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Ok, that is just filthy. It can now wound T7 on a 2+.
I now want a weirdboy, but I hate finecast. Maybe I can convert a Runtherd into one.

The totempole dude from the AoS Savage Orruks box works quite well too as a Weirdboy. By pure coincidence I decided to paint the totempole as a traffic light (far before Speed Freeks was announced) so he's the ideal race starter Only have to switch his dagger for a checkered flag now.

 Grimskul wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
Soo... are Weirdboyz (or psykers in general) able to cast spells from open-topped vehicles? Fists of Gork sounds awesome on my soon-to-be-bought Trikeboss but he'll need a Trukk or Battlewagon to ride to even keep up wiith him (20" movement for Trikeboss T1 most likely).

They can't now, so I don't see why they would be able to in the new codex.

Gotta figure out another way to make him keep up then. Hopefully a normal move + advance is enough to get within 12".

Weirdboy on bike ... if only

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Not sure why everyone is so excited about the killa klaw. It rerolls wounds, but that's it, it's still D3. If you're wounding on 2 anyway, it's only marginally better.

There's no hit penalty, which is a considerable upgrade over the generic klaw.

Also, aren't regular PKs d3 damage instead of a flat 3? No hit penalty, flat 3 damage is and reroll wounds is HUGE.

 Billagio wrote:
Geeez, +1 Attack from warlord trait and then another +2 from Fists of Gork. With the New PK (if the leaked stats are true), thats gonna be silly on a warboss

Yep. +3 attacks at STRENGTH 18.

Wounding T9 on 2...

well,

1st detachment (vanguard?)
warboss with megaarmour gets badmoon trait for 4++ give him the klaw relic
put him with some dudes in a battlewagon, tellyport him (also add in megakannonz, dakkajets and or tankbustaz etc to benifit from the reroll 1's)


2nd detachment (battalion)
some other git gets the thinking cap and the snakebite trait. he walks around with auto morale passing gretchins to shield the front lines (do gretchin also get 6++???? )... (u could fit in a weirdboy with da jump here for the 6++)
or play somethin speedfreaky (like put the battlewagon from 1st Detachment in here to make it faster and rammier, give a git the redder armor relic or the finkin cap with another trait that benifits your army)


3rd detachment (battalion)
add in another detachment with weirdboy, maybe wartrike and 60 skarboyz + 10 gretchin (they'll pay the cp for themselves^^) teleport em in on t1 and t2 (use gretchin to annoy opponent... backfield objectives, area denial or whatever)

RedNoak wrote:
well,

1st detachment (vanguard?)
warboss with megaarmour gets badmoon trait for 4++ give him the klaw relic
put him with some dudes in a battlewagon, tellyport him (also add in megakannonz, dakkajets and or tankbustaz etc to benifit from the reroll 1's)

Know you're just brainstorming but there is an issue with putting serious points worth of CC units in a transport to be Tellyported.

They can only arrive T2 (assuming the FAQ for deep strike applies which it almost certainly will) and end of movement phase. So they can't disembark until and hope to get stuck in before T3 :/

t1 i would bet the gretchins to keep my boyz quite safe (depending on how good the gretchin strat is) throw in 30 skarboyz and some kommandoz (maybe some jetbuggys) to keep opponent on his toes

warboss in mega armour shouldnt be too pricey
thats maybe 300-400 points (depending what you put in the BW). the battlewagon could use ramming speed for 3d6 charge (with ere we go that should make it quite reliable)

and by t2 i am hopefully also with the rest of the skarboyz in the enemy deployment zone


maybe its even better we cant deepstrike in t1, so at the beginning of t2 he'll have alot of units in his face. target saturation makes the opponent make mistakes

 TedNugent wrote:
Rerolling 1s is straight awful.

Multiply your hit chance and number of shots, then divide by six.

Still excited?

Compare that to +1 to your saves against shooting. Or a 6+++. Or a 6++.

4++ is the only cool thing, but even that is competing against other really stronk warlord traits. As much as a 4++ is a requirement for an actual combat character, it's not something that would make me turn down the other clan traits. Now if the 4++ was a relic, 100% my opinion would change.

you're assuming that an ork army is 5+ to hit, no exceptions, across the board. That's very much not the case anymore - we have 4+ and 3+ to hit models aplenty. Dakkajets, Wazbombs, Mek Gunz, Dragstas, Flash Gitz. Sure, it's a bit of a niche setup for orks but I think there's enough there to justify it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am 99% certain that in the kirioth video he said it was +1s +1a on the charge only...

RedNoak wrote:
well,

1st detachment (vanguard?)
warboss with megaarmour gets badmoon trait for 4++ give him the klaw relic
put him with some dudes in a battlewagon, tellyport him (also add in megakannonz, dakkajets and or tankbustaz etc to benifit from the reroll 1's)


2nd detachment (battalion)
some other git gets the thinking cap and the snakebite trait. he walks around with auto morale passing gretchins to shield the front lines (do gretchin also get 6++???? )... (u could fit in a weirdboy with da jump here for the 6++)
or play somethin speedfreaky (like put the battlewagon from 1st Detachment in here to make it faster and rammier, give a git the redder armor relic or the finkin cap with another trait that benifits your army)


3rd detachment (battalion)
add in another detachment with weirdboy, maybe wartrike and 60 skarboyz + 10 gretchin (they'll pay the cp for themselves^^) teleport em in on t1 and t2 (use gretchin to annoy opponent... backfield objectives, area denial or whatever)

Wait... can you take Clan specific stratagems with mixed clans? I thought in order to use a stratagem (for a battleforged list), the entire army needs to share the same keywords, not just individual detachments. I'll be thrilled to be mistaken..

 quindia wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
well,

1st detachment (vanguard?)
warboss with megaarmour gets badmoon trait for 4++ give him the klaw relic
put him with some dudes in a battlewagon, tellyport him (also add in megakannonz, dakkajets and or tankbustaz etc to benifit from the reroll 1's)


2nd detachment (battalion)
some other git gets the thinking cap and the snakebite trait. he walks around with auto morale passing gretchins to shield the front lines (do gretchin also get 6++???? )... (u could fit in a weirdboy with da jump here for the 6++)
or play somethin speedfreaky (like put the battlewagon from 1st Detachment in here to make it faster and rammier, give a git the redder armor relic or the finkin cap with another trait that benifits your army)


3rd detachment (battalion)
add in another detachment with weirdboy, maybe wartrike and 60 skarboyz + 10 gretchin (they'll pay the cp for themselves^^) teleport em in on t1 and t2 (use gretchin to annoy opponent... backfield objectives, area denial or whatever)

Wait... can you take Clan specific stratagems with mixed clans? I thought in order to use a stratagem (for a battleforged list), the entire army needs to share the same keywords, not just individual detachments. I'll be thrilled to be mistaken..

No I think as long as your army is battle forged you can use any stratagem your army has access to. Its just that klan/chapter specific stratagems most likely only affect units with that keyword.

I could be wrong though.

No, you're right. There is no such thing as clan specific stragems, or chapter specific or craftworld specific. They are merely codex detachment specific that have targeting restrictions.

THX

RedNoak wrote:
t1 i would bet the gretchins to keep my boyz quite safe (depending on how good the gretchin strat is) throw in 30 skarboyz and some kommandoz (maybe some jetbuggys) to keep opponent on his toes

warboss in mega armour shouldnt be too pricey
thats maybe 300-400 points (depending what you put in the BW). the battlewagon could use ramming speed for 3d6 charge (with ere we go that should make it quite reliable)

and by t2 i am hopefully also with the rest of the skarboyz in the enemy deployment zone


maybe its even better we cant deepstrike in t1, so at the beginning of t2 he'll have alot of units in his face. target saturation makes the opponent make mistakes

So let\s see. Skarboyz are on T2 10+2d6=17" forward. That's 7" short of his DZ. More if they were deployed behind grots. So T2 they aren't anywhere near enemy DZ. And that BW and contents will be in enemy face on T3 so if he goes first(non-orks often will have +1 so 60% chance for that) he has 2 turns to blow up skarboyz which is easy. If you plan to teleport those as well...Well with BW, it's mega expensive contents, 60 skarboyz and grots...Are you sure you are going to have half of the units AND points deploy normally? Sounds like you are DZ'ing over half the army. And in any case that's 8 CP if you plan to teleport battlewagon, skarboyz and grots)

Anyone done much digging on the forge world index for orks to see if any of the stuff we know so far would be good?

such a shame a gargantuan squigoth is 21power!


KILL TANK near a mekshop maybe? 36 s6 -1 dmg shots?

or BATTLEWAGON WITH SUPA-KANNON - 12 s8 -2 3dmg

for the teltyport strat i think we might see a big wave of ork walkers using this. assume all these walkers are evil suns to help improve their charge and allow assault wpns to fire at full BS.

the gorkanaut is the most obvious choice, also it can carry stuff (though what it transports will have to wait the next turn to get stuck in,kff bigmek to give it defense against shooting and an embarked bannernob buffs this to asure it hits on a 2plus). unfortunately the morkanaut wouldn't be so good to telyport unless you desperately need to deploy a kff to cover some of your army in a later turn of the game. (both current mork/gorkanaut are under 20pl)

with current PL we can get a full squad of 6 killakans right up close and personal. with getting more attacks for having 3 in the squad and getting close for decent shooting then they can deal out some pain in melee (maybe da jump a banner nob near them for improved to hit).
.
currently 3 defdredds are 24PL, but we might get lucky and with the possibility of deffdredds getting a pts/pl decrease that we can maybe get a whole squad through the telyporta. due to the "dreddmob" rule, being deployed as a single group it wont split before the telyport and will separate after they pop out. equip all these dredds with nothing but claws and watch them shred the enemy.

edit-though the goff article that revealed the tellyport strat suggests sending meganobz through the telyporta i wouldnt use the tellyporta for any infantry (or speedy units for that matter). da jump doesn't cost cp and can send larger squads of infantry that wont have to restricted by the 20pl, tellyport i believe is best for any slow melee focused vehicle we have...in other words all our walkers

one of the problems with our walkers was their speed. and with a combo of evilsunz kulture and tellyport we can run plausible dreddmobs. lets hope for some nice price decreases for all our walkers (a good sign to see the morkanaut going from 18pl to 15pl).

Yeah deep striking evil sun walkers(evil sun walker...GW good at screwing up clan rules working exactly opposite of how fluff indicates. Evil sun infantry and walker, no bikes etc) will likely be how ork armies will work in future. Too bad that means walkers will be only good with that combo. But yeah deep striking walkers to do killing, tons of grots to hold backfield objectives. Some fast moving trike HQ's etc. Good thing I already had 120 grots!

Does anyone know or has as an idea as to why boys, grots, ghazzy and nob with banner are "sold out" instead of temporarily out of stock?

tneva82 wrote:
Yeah deep striking evil sun walkers(evil sun walker...GW good at screwing up clan rules working exactly opposite of how fluff indicates. Evil sun infantry and walker, no bikes etc) will likely be how ork armies will work in future. Too bad that means walkers will be only good with that combo. But yeah deep striking walkers to do killing, tons of grots to hold backfield objectives. Some fast moving trike HQ's etc. Good thing I already had 120 grots!

There is nothing unfluffy about Evil Sunz walkers and boyz. Evil Sunz are not Speed Freeks, they just have the highest proportion of them. All Evil Sunz ladz will start out on foot, they simply dream of the time they get to ride in a trukk, then get their own bike, or buggy, or dakkajet, and save up their teef accordingly.

As it happens, the advancing and shooting at full Bs benefits the faster units too- Evil Sunz is one of the most mentioned clanz for using the new buggies, especially the Dragsta.

 Haighus wrote:

There is nothing unfluffy about Evil Sunz walkers and boyz. Evil Sunz are not Speed Freeks, they just have the highest proportion of them. All Evil Sunz ladz will start out on foot, they simply dream of the time they get to ride in a trukk, then get their own bike, or buggy, or dakkajet, and save up their teef accordingly.

As it happens, the advancing and shooting at full Bs benefits the faster units too- Evil Sunz is one of the most mentioned clanz for using the new buggies, especially the Dragsta.

its true, if only we can transport killakans and deffdreds in our transports (like the sm dredd in the stormtalon/droppod) then that can fit closer to that evilsunz like dreddmob. but that is highly unlikely.

if you want our walkers to look the part then add little wheels/tredds to their feet (best found on cheap toys). if you haven't seen anything about the anime "armored trooper votoms" then check it out (see youtube for how these mechs move), thats how i imagine speed based walkers to look like. they wont be as fast as our bikers but with bonus to move and advance and escorted by a dethkilla trike then they become fairly fast and can fit that look and feel of a speedy dreddmob.

 Haighus wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Yeah deep striking evil sun walkers(evil sun walker...GW good at screwing up clan rules working exactly opposite of how fluff indicates. Evil sun infantry and walker, no bikes etc) will likely be how ork armies will work in future. Too bad that means walkers will be only good with that combo. But yeah deep striking walkers to do killing, tons of grots to hold backfield objectives. Some fast moving trike HQ's etc. Good thing I already had 120 grots!

There is nothing unfluffy about Evil Sunz walkers and boyz. Evil Sunz are not Speed Freeks, they just have the highest proportion of them. All Evil Sunz ladz will start out on foot, they simply dream of the time they get to ride in a trukk, then get their own bike, or buggy, or dakkajet, and save up their teef accordingly.

As it happens, the advancing and shooting at full Bs benefits the faster units too- Evil Sunz is one of the most mentioned clanz for using the new buggies, especially the Dragsta.

Advancing and shooting with weapons that don't need to advance and shoot to shoot into target. When you have 14" movement and weapon that isn't flamer ranged you don't NEED to advance. You are in range anyway. And likely don't even WANT closer where enemy then can tag you in h2h and prevent you from shooting. Vehicles want to be blood axes for fall back and assault or bad moon for reroll 1's(especially handy for the dragsta with it's plasma weapons) or possibly deth skull(6++ and reroll 1 dice which could be useful for buggies with low number of shots). About least usefull clan traits(after goff) is evil sun. You take evil sun, you are handicapping yourself in a codex that looks very much like lower average strength.

And evil sunz want to go fast. Even without speed freaks they are supposed to be using lots of fast stuff. Precisely the kind of stuff that you are handicapping yourself with evil sun clan trait.

So having, lets say...

Nob bikers with Kombi skorchas, that can move 15", then advance 4.5", then fire 6 dakkagun shots and 2 shoot a shots at 5+ then fire a skorcha, then assault 2d6+1 with either or both dice rerolls using your deffkilla wartrike is just handicapped.

Or the buggies that also have flamers and close combat weapons. Hmmmm

 TedNugent wrote:
So having, lets say...

Nob bikers with Kombi skorchas, that can move 15", then advance 4.5", then fire 6 dakkagun shots and 2 shoot a shots at 5+ then fire a skorcha, then assault 2d6+1 with either or both dice rerolls using your deffkilla wartrike is just handicapped.

Or the buggies that also have flamers and close combat weapons. Hmmmm

Well hopefully the kombiskorchas have gotten a bit cheaper but GW seem to overvalue the flamers in general. Also, the shoota bits would hit a 6+, no? Since you're shooting both profiles.
Anyways, I choose to be optimistic rather than pessimistic in our wait for the codex. Maybe we'll get a few losers but I really think our codex will end up really strong. Personally I'd hope we aren't even the go-to best army out there with a singular build but rather just strong and solid overall with a plethora of good to great builds

Right, but even then evil sunz walkers are gonna be dope.

The infantry are going to be redonk fast. Even evil sunz meganobz and bosses will be faster than boys from other clans.

Storm boys, buggies, and transports will be flying down the board.

 TedNugent wrote:
So having, lets say...

Nob bikers with Kombi skorchas, that can move 15", then advance 4.5", then fire 6 dakkagun shots and 2 shoot a shots at 5+ then fire a skorcha, then assault 2d6+1 with either or both dice rerolls using your deffkilla wartrike is just handicapped.

Or the buggies that also have flamers and close combat weapons. Hmmmm

having recently gone to a tournament with 15 total skorcha buggies i would've killed to have the blood axe clan trait. instead of speed of the evilsunz it would've been more beneficial to be able to get out of combat and still shoot with all my skorchas. it was very often too easy for my opponents to stun lock away my main shooting units. so in the case of getting close for flamer attacks its better to use bloodaxes. infact the bloodaxe trait would be better for melee units if you want to easily charge multiple targets (especially the boomblasta to maximize its mortal wounds)(like instances of getting locked into combat with enemy chaff).

yeah, evil suns just seems way better for any ork unit that is naturaly slow. and it seems better to take other clan traits for our already fast units.

 TedNugent wrote:
Right, but even then evil sunz walkers are gonna be dope.

The infantry are going to be redonk fast. Even evil sunz meganobz and bosses will be faster than boys from other clans.

Storm boys, buggies, and transports will be flying down the board.

Oh, absolutely. I also think the snakebite stratagem (and relic) or goffs skarboyz and to some extent klan trait present a good argument for trying out other klans than just evil sunz that everyone had originally feared. Actually almost all klans seem like they could be strong so far IMO. Do9n't get me wrong, I play evil sunz so I love the stuff we've seen from them so far but I'd hate it if other players felt forced to take them as well.

I'm still jealous of those skarboyz though

 Haighus wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Yeah deep striking evil sun walkers(evil sun walker...GW good at screwing up clan rules working exactly opposite of how fluff indicates. Evil sun infantry and walker, no bikes etc) will likely be how ork armies will work in future. Too bad that means walkers will be only good with that combo. But yeah deep striking walkers to do killing, tons of grots to hold backfield objectives. Some fast moving trike HQ's etc. Good thing I already had 120 grots!

There is nothing unfluffy about Evil Sunz walkers and boyz. Evil Sunz are not Speed Freeks, they just have the highest proportion of them. All Evil Sunz ladz will start out on foot, they simply dream of the time they get to ride in a trukk, then get their own bike, or buggy, or dakkajet, and save up their teef accordingly.

As it happens, the advancing and shooting at full Bs benefits the faster units too- Evil Sunz is one of the most mentioned clanz for using the new buggies, especially the Dragsta.

NO!
NO!

ALL evil sunz must be bikers and buggies, ALL White Scars must be biker space marines, ALL World Eaters must be only khorne bezerkers, ALL units in a farsight army must be battlesuits! Nothing Else Is Fluffy!

(See above for "how did the Space Wolves get the way they are in the current edition")