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16" movement on bikes. 4.5" advance. Then charge with a trike.
Yeah it makes warbikes (possibly nob bikers if they are in the codex, otherwise the Index version wont get the keyword), deffkoptas, all the buggies except the squigbuggy quick and especially the Shokkjump Dragsta as it will be moving 16" before advancing too, however you dont necessarily need that much speed on those units.
With movement 14" base, advancing 3-4" on average and charging 2d6 rerollable thats a 24-26" turn 1 threat range. With Evil Sunz thats 28-30" turn 1 threat range. Yeah that sounds amazing, unless the opponent has a wall of chaff blocking off the cookie jar.... So you then have to hope you have enough dakka (you never have enough dakka) to clear a path to those tasty targets.
Im not saying its a bad trait for Speed Freaks as 1.) it forces the opponent to deploy further back into their deployment zone which is conceding board space. 2.) your more likely to make the charge turn 1 even if it is into a chaff unit. 3.) you remain just as accurate (orky wise?) when you advance with all those bikers/koptas/buggies. 4.) Can cover more distance to grab objectives.
However all those units so far are 1.) overcosted (as of yet). 2.) already pretty damn quick. 3.) inaccurate with ranged to clear GEQ. 4.) non of these units are objective secured so if there is one lone guardsmen on that objective its still his.
Personally Blood Axes seem to be the best trait for Speed Freak units, getting the cover bonus is so much more important for these fragile units than moving 3" more before charging. And then you have the added bonus of being able to fall back and charge without being fored to take the Evil Sunz rumoured Warlord Trait!
The planes arent affected by the Clan Trait at all and i would most likely make them Bad Moons for the reroll 1's to hit and the possible shooty aligned stratagem, Snakebites for the 6+++ and the strat to make there supa shootas hurt monsters and vehicles better (good for the dakka jet) or blood axes again to make them have a 3+ save (better than the deathskulls 6++ as most AT weapons used are ap3 or 2, ap4 is for the eldar/deldar or they have haywire so either case its moot).
Thats my general workings out for the evil sunz trait. Im open to new opinions but i agree with the general consensus that this trait is better for kan walls and greentides which is unfluffy. Though kan walls make some sense as they have can souped up engines on there dreads.
This response isnt aimed at you in a negative way TedNugent im just on a tangent
Evil suns is the right clan for an army made up of bikes and buggy end of. The kulture doesn’t matter. Blood axe fast army is just not right. If you are only worried about competeive play and not at all about the fluff then why play the game? I really don’t get it. I’m not having to pick clans for my army. It’s all painted up as clans and they will be the clans they are. I couldn’t change them, it’d be like renaming my children.
JimOnMars wrote: Does anyone plan on returning Speed Freeks? It seems like a defective product.
Ive yet to buy Speedfreaks. I was aiming to get it originally (2 boxes to be precise) but since the reviews i have been put off the buggies in general. I am usually a patient lingerer on this forum, and probably would of stayed that way but that clan focus has set me off
If i did order it i probably would of returned it, its quite expensive to begin with and now im getting the feeling that non of the things in it are actually needed which is a shame as im a speedfreak at heart with my Evil Sunz. Orkz are my love for 12 years but since the Eldar/Guard dexes have been released i have shelved the lot.
Orkz could hold there own vs marines, dark angels, death guard and grey knights in many ways that dont involve just green tide,but since the newer dexes it has just been a struggle. So i have been playing my Admech/Skitarii (non soup) army at tournaments (and placing fairly high usually top 5) and since Dark Eldar were released i have been using them and they have been such a blast to play. I dont use Black Heart, i used Kabal of the Flayed Skull and Red Grief.
All i wanted was the Ork dex to be like the Deldar one, good strong internal balance with loads of play styles available. I dont want them to OP, just all round good like Tyranids were before there CA nerfing.
From the leaks and rumours it doesnt look that way, yes it is still early days as we have yet to have the codex in hand but i am starting to feel burnt out already.... this "Orktober" has been the worst....
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
lolman1c wrote: I just don't understand it at all. And this is why I seriously thi k the points might be wrong. Why would gw spend hundreds of thousands of £££ on vehicles that people won't want to buy? I k ow they've already done this before wuth the last ork stuff but they wouldn't fall for it again would they? They're not that bad?
Why GW made 'orkanauts so bad on release? DA flyers? Tau flyers? Dinobots? To make things good enough to sell actually requires developer to have some ability to balance things out. GW has proven time and again they don't hire people who know how to balance things. I'm sure they are nice people and would be blast to play against them as they seem to have attitude to the game I enjoy but in terms of writing good balanced game? Need to hire other kind of people as well.
Top of that doesn't even look like the developer team has had any dedicated ork player for YEARS. You can usually tell which armies somebody in the developer team has felt passionate about. If there's no die hard ork army no surprise ork army isn't getting as good rules. They very likely don't have grey knight fan either.
Also models do sell despite bad rules.
So you're finally admitting they don't point models to sell? Hallelujah!
thats totally on par with a bs3, 5++, 3x s8 ap-4 d6dmg ravager!!!
And here's the problem - everyone is trying to compare these to the most borked units they know. When you stop doing that you'll have a better time.
That isn't to say that Ravagers should get nerfed into the ground - every faction should have their advantages and not everything should be a like for like as Ravagers don't plow into combat with rerolls to charge.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/25 15:37:51
16" movement on bikes. 4.5" advance. Then charge with a trike.
Yeah it makes warbikes (possibly nob bikers if they are in the codex, otherwise the Index version wont get the keyword), deffkoptas, all the buggies except the squigbuggy quick and especially the Shokkjump Dragsta as it will be moving 16" before advancing too, however you dont necessarily need that much speed on those units.
With movement 14" base, advancing 3-4" on average and charging 2d6 rerollable thats a 24-26" turn 1 threat range. With Evil Sunz thats 28-30" turn 1 threat range. Yeah that sounds amazing, unless the opponent has a wall of chaff blocking off the cookie jar.... So you then have to hope you have enough dakka (you never have enough dakka) to clear a path to those tasty targets.
Im not saying its a bad trait for Speed Freaks as 1.) it forces the opponent to deploy further back into their deployment zone which is conceding board space. 2.) your more likely to make the charge turn 1 even if it is into a chaff unit. 3.) you remain just as accurate (orky wise?) when you advance with all those bikers/koptas/buggies. 4.) Can cover more distance to grab objectives.
However all those units so far are 1.) overcosted (as of yet). 2.) already pretty damn quick. 3.) inaccurate with ranged to clear GEQ. 4.) non of these units are objective secured so if there is one lone guardsmen on that objective its still his.
Personally Blood Axes seem to be the best trait for Speed Freak units, getting the cover bonus is so much more important for these fragile units than moving 3" more before charging. And then you have the added bonus of being able to fall back and charge without being fored to take the Evil Sunz rumoured Warlord Trait!
The planes arent affected by the Clan Trait at all and i would most likely make them Bad Moons for the reroll 1's to hit and the possible shooty aligned stratagem, Snakebites for the 6+++ and the strat to make there supa shootas hurt monsters and vehicles better (good for the dakka jet) or blood axes again to make them have a 3+ save (better than the deathskulls 6++ as most AT weapons used are ap3 or 2, ap4 is for the eldar/deldar or they have haywire so either case its moot).
Thats my general workings out for the evil sunz trait. Im open to new opinions but i agree with the general consensus that this trait is better for kan walls and greentides which is unfluffy. Though kan walls make some sense as they have can souped up engines on there dreads.
This response isnt aimed at you in a negative way TedNugent im just on a tangent
Evil suns is the right clan for an army made up of bikes and buggy end of. The kulture doesn’t matter. Blood axe fast army is just not right. If you are only worried about competeive play and not at all about the fluff then why play the game? I really don’t get it. I’m not having to pick clans for my army. It’s all painted up as clans and they will be the clans they are. I couldn’t change them, it’d be like renaming my children.
Maybe because my Orkz have been getting the shaft since 6th edition and its getting quite boring and pathetic... 4th ed was the golden age when i played orkz (even if you didnt run the nob biker cheese). And believe it or not wanting to have a good list doesnt mean instantly that all you want to do it play competitively. Blood Axes still have speedfreaks and mekheads, evil sunz arent the only ones to have exclusively bikes and buggies. There are many ways to explain why Blood Axe buggies would get cover, they could cover their advance with a wave of smog and dust, like ghazghkull did to beat his badmoon nemesis on his home planet. You can even say that the bikes are using feints and withdraw tactics, darting and jinking there way to the front line.
Not all orkz are mindless zoggers who just blindly get zogged in the face countless times. I always play to my armies fluff, i have names for all my characters, nobs, their units and vehicles. I have custom made blast templates and dice for them (RIP templates.... ) and my clan is call Da Red Hand Smashas lead by Warlord Deffrekka Da 'Ead Hunter. So try not to assume how someone else plays. Everyone has there own play styles and i wouldnt judge anyone for there own way.
All i simply stated was that the Evil Sunz trait isnt efficient for the actual Speed Freaks, i never said that im playing my bikers are blood axes, i said they seem the best option that gives them something they need.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/25 15:39:46
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
lolman1c wrote: The who "It will be fixed in CA" is a terrible argument though. So you're telling me that in order to get the true rules to the Orks I not only had to wait over a year but now have to wait a few more months and buy another book? Couldn't they have just got it right the first time and saved me £25?
No one is saying that. As noted above - the best things people are comparing to can easily be nerfed. Whether or not GW will do so is up in the air.
If GW repoints Orks in CA then they have a playtesting process that needs way more room to breathe.
JimOnMars wrote: Does anyone plan on returning Speed Freeks? It seems like a defective product.
What's the problem with it? I'm honestly asking, was planning on picking it up friday or saturday.
Also, people keep talking about how overcosted the new buggies are (points wise). not that I'm disputing that, but have points been confirmed, or are just extrapolating from the power levels that have been shown?
They are (according to rumors) going to be 140 points.
JimOnMars wrote: Does anyone plan on returning Speed Freeks? It seems like a defective product.
What's the problem with it? I'm honestly asking, was planning on picking it up friday or saturday.
Also, people keep talking about how overcosted the new buggies are (points wise). not that I'm disputing that, but have points been confirmed, or are just extrapolating from the power levels that have been shown?
They are (according to rumors) going to be 140 points.
Two buggies do not make a knight.
#twobuggiesisnotaknight.
What is it with geedubz and releasing new ork models that are generally terrible? Last edition it was flash gitz, little meks, orkanauts, and to a lesser extent meganobz (mek gunz were and are good, I'll give them that). Now its 6 flashy new buggies which are (likely) obscenely overcosted. I mean, it doesn't surprise me, but I thought that new models were supposed to be OP? (See Castellans for a recent example).
I mean, hell's bells. If they are ~140 points each, imagine taking 6 buggies v. a castellan, and see who would win! (Hint: it's not orks).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/25 16:00:50
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by.
JimOnMars wrote: Does anyone plan on returning Speed Freeks? It seems like a defective product.
What's the problem with it? I'm honestly asking, was planning on picking it up friday or saturday.
Also, people keep talking about how overcosted the new buggies are (points wise). not that I'm disputing that, but have points been confirmed, or are just extrapolating from the power levels that have been shown?
They are (according to rumors) going to be 140 points.
Two buggies do not make a knight.
#twobuggiesisnotaknight.
What is it with geedubz and releasing new ork models that are generally terrible? Last edition it was flash gitz, little meks, orkanauts, and to a lesser extent meganobz (mek gunz were and are good, I'll give them that). Now its 6 flashy new buggies which are (likely) obscenely overcosted. I mean, it doesn't surprise me, but I thought that new models were supposed to be OP? (See Castellans for a recent example).
Nothing will change unless we write them...I'm holding off until I see the actual point values.
Honestly, evil sunz sound like a big winner, overall. Faster, more reliable charges, and the warlord trait is rumored to be fall back & charge, which is good too.
The funny thing is that our fast vehicles will likely still be terribad, so you'll see a lot of evil sunz green tides, which isn't terribly fluffy.
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by.
Galas wrote: The problem with generalists is that in 40k you have only a couple of turns to do things and most of the time you can't be doing multiple things at the same time. Why I want a mediocre shooting and mediocre meele unit that will have a mediocre round of shooting one turn and a mediocre round of meele another turn when I can have an excelent shooting unit that will have two excelent shooting rounds or two excelent meele rounds.
And on top of that, GW always overprice generalist as if that was a strenght when in 40k it is a weakness. I love my generalists, don't think I don't, but I haven't had really a game where they worked as they should. They are nearly always a let down.
False dichotomy.
Where are the Warptalons, Mutilators, Centurions, Ratlings, all of Deathwatch, etc?
lolman1c wrote: The who "It will be fixed in CA" is a terrible argument though. So you're telling me that in order to get the true rules to the Orks I not only had to wait over a year but now have to wait a few more months and buy another book? Couldn't they have just got it right the first time and saved me £25?
No one is saying that. As noted above - the best things people are comparing to can easily be nerfed. Whether or not GW will do so is up in the air.
If GW repoints Orks in CA then they have a playtesting process that needs way more room to breathe.
So, are you thinking that a Harlequin Voidweaver is an unreasonably OP vehicle that's definitely going to be nerfed in CA?
Because I'm not seeing it in any competitive lists, and nobody seems to be talking about it...
but it uses a pretty similar "pick a profile" weapon in the prism cannon to the squigbuggy, yet it does more damage using any profile+its shuriken cannons than the squigbuggy against any kind of target, it's several times more durable, faster, similar in close combat, and the squigbuggy is shaping up to be 140-150pts while the voidweaver is 105.
This is not a comparison to an unreasonably broken unit. It is a comparison to a unit considered subpar to middle of the road by almost everyone.And it is A) better in almost every way, and B ), 2/3 of the cost.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
deffrekka wrote: That was the worst clan focus ever...... Top unit is a Mek Shop.... what?! Are you sure GW.... Right ok whatever, i would of mentioned some strats for Speed Freak keyword aligned units, not re-using the billowing exhausts we got from the buggy preview. And we have already seen the rules for the speedwaaagh! Maybe show some more of the Deffkilla wartrikes datasheet instead....
Such a bad focus honestly. I was hyped for today's article and it basically revealed nothing new and exciting for my favourite clan. They might as well skip today's faction focus as that was how helpful and insightful it was!!!
Really annoyed me. Kills my hype....
Ill just wait for a proper YouTube review on saturday, atleast that wont disappoint me with new information, instead of recycled news.
Evil Sunz... arguably the biggest speed freaks clan there is! And they basically give us the worst preview yet... GW... really? Like even if we didn't know this stuff it was still kinda a waste. Maybe they could have showed us bikers or the wagon? You know... real Evil Sunz units!
Yeah, you can tell they are trying really hard to sell that terrain.
What's funny is that they don't even use an Evil Sunz mek shop; those are Bad Moons units.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
deffrekka wrote: That was the worst clan focus ever...... Top unit is a Mek Shop.... what?! Are you sure GW.... Right ok whatever, i would of mentioned some strats for Speed Freak keyword aligned units, not re-using the billowing exhausts we got from the buggy preview. And we have already seen the rules for the speedwaaagh! Maybe show some more of the Deffkilla wartrikes datasheet instead....
Such a bad focus honestly. I was hyped for today's article and it basically revealed nothing new and exciting for my favourite clan. They might as well skip today's faction focus as that was how helpful and insightful it was!!!
Really annoyed me. Kills my hype....
Ill just wait for a proper YouTube review on saturday, atleast that wont disappoint me with new information, instead of recycled news.
Evil Sunz... arguably the biggest speed freaks clan there is! And they basically give us the worst preview yet... GW... really? Like even if we didn't know this stuff it was still kinda a waste. Maybe they could have showed us bikers or the wagon? You know... real Evil Sunz units!
I find this funny though, So far every preview has just been a rehash of info we had two weeks ago. Again people are blaming GW for the previews because some other git spoiled the info a week ago. At this point who cares anyway, in 2 days there will be full codex reviews anyway.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/25 16:18:01
Bah, they just confirmed that the mek shop doesn't allow units to shoot for a turn. gakky terrain is gakky. Just get it for decoration, don't bother wasting points or using the rules.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/25 16:19:50
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
I think the snakebits review and the goff ones have been the best ones so far. The bad moons one atleast showed the new weapon profile for the KMZ for Morky.
The evil suns one was just lazy.
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
The stratagem (1/3 of the preview) was spoiled...by Games Workshop, a week ago.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Bah, they just confirmed that the mek shop doesn't allow units to shoot for a turn. gakky terrain is gakky.
Just get it for decoration, don't bother wasting points or using the rules.
Damn, that's actually a good idea
.Well, blood axe nob bikers with Kombi skorchas could be fun too.
I'm imagining a 3+ save, falling back from Kombat and roasting everything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/25 16:29:35
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
the_scotsman wrote: The stratagem (1/3 of the preview) was spoiled...by Games Workshop, a week ago.
And the Speedwaaagh! ability on the same article about the buggies that previewed that strat!
The only things "new" were the mek shop more dakka rule and the clan trait. But we already knew those from the leaks. Of course there are people who dont follow forums or hear/see these leaks so its entirely new to them, but it still doesnt excuse the fact they used 2 recycled preview items from a previous news article.
Imagine watching thursdays news and they tell you what happened last week on a tuesday...
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
the_scotsman wrote: The stratagem (1/3 of the preview) was spoiled...by Games Workshop, a week ago.
And the Speedwaaagh! ability on the same article about the buggies that previewed that strat!
The only things "new" were the mek shop more dakka rule and the clan trait. But we already knew those from the leaks. Of course there are people who dont follow forums or hear/see these leaks so its entirely new to them, but it still doesnt excuse the fact they used 2 recycled preview items from a previous news article.
Imagine watching thursdays news and they tell you what happened last week on a tuesday...
Only the trait wasn't fully known since apparently they gain +1 to move advance and charge. 7 fething kits and scatter terrain, awesome rules and somehow still unhappy people prior to seeing any concrete points. Unreal.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Bah, they just confirmed that the mek shop doesn't allow units to shoot for a turn. gakky terrain is gakky.
Just get it for decoration, don't bother wasting points or using the rules.
Damn, that's actually a good idea
.Well, blood axe nob bikers with Kombi skorchas could be fun too.
I'm imagining a 3+ save, falling back from Kombat and roasting everything.
Or Burna blobs.
Get charged, burnicate them. Next turn fall back, burnicate them and charge them. Flamers are going to be brutal with Blood Axes.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Evil sunz kans - 7" movement, 4.5" avg advance. Then shoot a rokkit at BS4 per model. Then if you have a trike touching 6 of the kan mob, assault.
+1 attack per model in the supermob. Add a waaagh banner for lulz.
Grots for min troops.
Even just spamming this option, I fail to see how this wouldn't be more effective than any variety of Ork boy, just from sheer armor saves, wound count, multi damage shooting and multi damage close combat attacks.
The points cost of a 30 man mob translated into kans.
Why not? Wouldn't that mulch any kind of a big nasty in a heartbeat?
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
Red Corsair wrote: Only the trait wasn't fully known since apparently they gain +1 to move advance and charge. 7 fething kits and scatter terrain, awesome rules and somehow still unhappy people prior to seeing any concrete points. Unreal.
Just a tip...
they are unhappy that they have to pay the points cost of a knight to get two buggies.
TedNugent wrote: How could boys possibly compare to kans at 7 ppm.
Evil sunz kans - 7" movement, 4.5" avg advance. Then shoot a rokkit at BS4 per model. Then if you have a trike touching 6 of the kan mob, assault.
+1 attack per model in the supermob. Add a waaagh banner for lulz.
Grots for min troops.
Even just spamming this option, I fail to see how this wouldn't be more effective than any variety of Ork boy, just from sheer armor saves, wound count, multi damage shooting and multi damage close combat attacks.
The points cost of a 30 man mob translated into kans.
Why not? Wouldn't that mulch any kind of a big nasty in a heartbeat?
I mean, that's kind of like asking "how could guardsmen possibly compare to dreadnoughts?" They're...completely different units, that do different things? I guess that's how they compare?
6 kanz put out what, 24 S7 AP-2 Dd3 attacks at WS4+ with the banner? Have I got that right? Great for big stuff, but 30 boyz put out 120 S4 AP- attacks.
That seems like very different kinds of attack profile to me.
Red Corsair wrote: Only the trait wasn't fully known since apparently they gain +1 to move advance and charge. 7 fething kits and scatter terrain, awesome rules and somehow still unhappy people prior to seeing any concrete points. Unreal.
Just a tip...
they are unhappy that they have to pay the points cost of a knight to get two buggies.
Do you think two buggies equal a knight?
Save it, we're on the "Well you don't KNOW the rules and points values, how can you possibly KNOW how good the thing is until you've read every word in the codex and chapter approved???" stage of the blind GW apologism.
I'm sure once we see book previews we'll fully shift to the "but you get so many awesome KITS how could you be unhappy??" of the 6th edition CSM release.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/25 16:45:06
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Red Corsair wrote: Only the trait wasn't fully known since apparently they gain +1 to move advance and charge. 7 fething kits and scatter terrain, awesome rules and somehow still unhappy people prior to seeing any concrete points. Unreal.
Just a tip...
they are unhappy that they have to pay the points cost of a knight to get two buggies.
Do you think two buggies equal a knight?
To be fair, the cheapest knight is 354 points. I don't think any of the buggies are going to cost 177 points. (Dear god, let's hope not). But those are still rumours. This preview was however objectively lazy compared to the other ones
So, are you thinking that a Harlequin Voidweaver is an unreasonably OP vehicle that's definitely going to be nerfed in CA?
Because I'm not seeing it in any competitive lists, and nobody seems to be talking about it...
but it uses a pretty similar "pick a profile" weapon in the prism cannon to the squigbuggy, yet it does more damage using any profile+its shuriken cannons than the squigbuggy against any kind of target, it's several times more durable, faster, similar in close combat, and the squigbuggy is shaping up to be 140-150pts while the voidweaver is 105.
This is not a comparison to an unreasonably broken unit. It is a comparison to a unit considered subpar to middle of the road by almost everyone.And it is A) better in almost every way, and B ), 2/3 of the cost.
Whack a mole. Knock one thing down and another is revealed to still be a problem. Just like LRBTs silently waiting to spring to the front when Knights and Bananas aren't super viable (and now that screens are super effective).
To take a Voidweaver you'd need a reason to take Harlies, which few will do, because DE has so many other excellent units and stratagems to boot.
Additionally, it has nowhere near the AP and damage of the Ravager against all targets.
T5 W6 on a VW 4++ -1 to hit for 108. T6 W10 5++ on a Ravager for 125.
D3 S6 AP3 D3 and 6 S6 AP0 Shurikens all at 24" or 9 S5 AP3 D2 at 36"?
One of these profiles benefits from Doom way more than the other.
im just on a tangent 
this "Orktober" has been the worst.... 
~4100
~1660
