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The big issue with the stompa other than points (assuming they are indeed 920) is just that degrade table. I don't get why it degrades more than twice. Usually big stuff degrades at 50% health and then again at 25%, those numbers scale so why even add more? Just remove the last bracket in terms of nerfs it gets, and spread it out according to everything else.

But yeah, facing it off against a castellan or shadowsword is going to make it look worse than it is since they are specialised titanic hunters

 lolman1c wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Okay... welll... erm... just did a practice game with the new rules (new weapons, price and dakkadakka) for the stompa vs 2 Shadowswords.
.

Well to be fair shadowsword is specialised big model killer while stompa is more generalist so should be matchup. But gap is still too large. New necron walker is better, costs 620 or so and is still non competive...

Btw did stompa use exploding 5 strat and bad moon trait? Probably only sensible combo.

Oh and stompa got nerfed in degrade table...wonder how gw thinks anything about stompa needed nerf

I mean I don't think it really matters... any 2 Blade variant has more wounds, less points and does more than 7 damage to the stompa with extremely high range guns. But I think a good game would be Stompa vs the new knight. Might have to try that out later today.

If by new knight you mean castelian don't bother. It's premium vehicle buster. It can go walker to tank vs 2 shadowsword that goes first and win. Stompa? Lunch

 lolman1c wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Okay... welll... erm... just did a practice game with the new rules (new weapons, price and dakkadakka) for the stompa vs 2 Shadowswords.
.

Well to be fair shadowsword is specialised big model killer while stompa is more generalist so should be matchup. But gap is still too large. New necron walker is better, costs 620 or so and is still non competive...

Btw did stompa use exploding 5 strat and bad moon trait? Probably only sensible combo.

Oh and stompa got nerfed in degrade table...wonder how gw thinks anything about stompa needed nerf

I mean I don't think it really matters... any 2 Blade variant has more wounds, less points and does more than 7 damage to the stompa with extremely high range guns. But I think a good game would be Stompa vs the new knight. Might have to try that out later today.

Try a stompa against 2 knights (but not the castellan which is specialised against heavy stuff and shine against a stompa. And is a bit underpriced too.) Like 2 errants for example.

PiñaColada wrote:
The big issue with the stompa other than points (assuming they are indeed 920) is just that degrade table. I don't get why it degrades more than twice. Usually big stuff degrades at 50% health and then again at 25%, those numbers scale so why even add more? Just remove the last bracket in terms of nerfs it gets, and spread it out according to everything else.

But yeah, facing it off against a castellan or shadowsword is going to make it look worse than it is since they are specialised titanic hunters

Guess gw thinks anything with 40+ wounds should do that. Gw seems to think it's small titan like warhound(which btw degrades similarly) when it's closer to knight class.

More gradual degrade makes sense with something like warlord but stompa is too small for that. And orks are ones you would expect to be less hindered by degrade!

And stompa degrade got worse...

PiñaColada wrote:
The big issue with the stompa other than points (assuming they are indeed 920) is just that degrade table. I don't get why it degrades more than twice. Usually big stuff degrades at 50% health and then again at 25%, those numbers scale so why even add more? Just remove the last bracket in terms of nerfs it gets, and spread it out according to everything else.

But yeah, facing it off against a castellan or shadowsword is going to make it look worse than it is since they are specialised titanic hunters

Pretty much everything with 30+ wounds has additional levels of degradation. It's just that these units tend to be in FW books rather than codexes. It's consistent with units like the Harridan and Warhound titan, both of which have fewer than 40 wounds.

tneva82 wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:
I just don't play like a snail

Neither do i. Good luck on opponents watching my dice roll. Doesn't help much when rules are so slow that what used to be easy 2k in 2h became impossibie.

Slower rules isn't good thing. But hey somebody who thinks buff that gives you 25% less wounds than other makes things ridiculously good...lol. worse buff making things worse. Your credibility is pretty low with that.

Speaking of credibility, where is yours? All you do is shut people down through this thread and the ork tactics thread too.

You think giving buffs to boys is better than giving buffs to other units in the codex. If all you want to use is boys go ahead, many people don't want to just keep spamming greentide to remain semi competitive.

Try helping the community instead of being toxic and constantly bringing up knights every 5 seconds.

Orkz struggle vs vehicles of all shapes and sizes not just the boogeyman of the castellan.

Provide solutions to this problem that doesn't involve mob it with boys then your credibility will be alot better.

If you want to carry this on, PM and we can discuss the pros and cons of different strategies we can use against knights.

I've already expressed mine which is snakebite tank bustas deepstriking with da jump and tellyport, popping more dakka and monsterhunters at the castellan on a 3++

You can try work out the damage but they are cheaper than the knight

Oh okay, then that's fair I guess. Never actually bothered to look at the titans. It's still rough but at least there's some consistency.

Let's just hope the stompa get a lot of special rules added. I don't own one nor do I want to but it's a shame when an army's centerpiece model is basically a glorified paperweight. I don't mind the fact that it's not just an orky imperial knight but I'm skeptical GW will give it enough impact to be worth spending almost half your points in.

I don't even know where they'd start. For sure just give it a 5++ against shooting built in, maybe some buffs for nearby ork models? Give it ramshackle? Reroll everything in CC?

 deffrekka wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:
I just don't play like a snail

Neither do i. Good luck on opponents watching my dice roll. Doesn't help much when rules are so slow that what used to be easy 2k in 2h became impossibie.

Slower rules isn't good thing. But hey somebody who thinks buff that gives you 25% less wounds than other makes things ridiculously good...lol. worse buff making things worse. Your credibility is pretty low with that.

Speaking of credibility, where is yours? All you do is shut people down through this thread and the ork tactics thread too.

You think giving buffs to boys is better than giving buffs to other units in the codex. If all you want to use is boys go ahead, many people don't want to just keep spamming greentide to remain semi competitive.

Try helping the community instead of being toxic and constantly bringing up knights every 5 seconds.

Orkz struggle vs vehicles of all shapes and sizes not just the boogeyman of the castellan.

Provide solutions to this problem that doesn't involve mob it with boys then your credibility will be alot better.

If you want to carry this on, PM and we can discuss the pros and cons of different strategies we can use against knights.

I've already expressed mine which is snakebite tank bustas deepstriking with da jump and tellyport, popping more dakka and monsterhunters which deals 9 unsaved wounds to a castellan on a 3++ so 27 damage before squigs and is cheaper than said knight

You provide buffs that are slow, i say i would prefer buff that isn't as fast, you claim it would be ridiculously broken good because it'" 25% worse than your buff. Lol. I look at math and logic. You just pull claims out of air.

25% worse is silly good. Lol lol

Also bomb squigs are affected by DDD extra explodey squigs!

Is it bad I REALLY want to do Goff and blood axes together. Goff boys and leaders. Blood axe kommandos, bikes, and burnas. Oh god blood axe burnas will be so fething good. But that is literally the two clans with opposite fluff cries in ghaz

tneva82 wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:
I just don't play like a snail

Neither do i. Good luck on opponents watching my dice roll. Doesn't help much when rules are so slow that what used to be easy 2k in 2h became impossibie.

Slower rules isn't good thing. But hey somebody who thinks buff that gives you 25% less wounds than other makes things ridiculously good...lol. worse buff making things worse. Your credibility is pretty low with that.

Speaking of credibility, where is yours? All you do is shut people down through this thread and the ork tactics thread too.

You think giving buffs to boys is better than giving buffs to other units in the codex. If all you want to use is boys go ahead, many people don't want to just keep spamming greentide to remain semi competitive.

Try helping the community instead of being toxic and constantly bringing up knights every 5 seconds.

Orkz struggle vs vehicles of all shapes and sizes not just the boogeyman of the castellan.

Provide solutions to this problem that doesn't involve mob it with boys then your credibility will be alot better.

If you want to carry this on, PM and we can discuss the pros and cons of different strategies we can use against knights.

I've already expressed mine which is snakebite tank bustas deepstriking with da jump and tellyport, popping more dakka and monsterhunters which deals 9 unsaved wounds to a castellan on a 3++ so 27 damage before squigs and is cheaper than said knight

You provide buffs that are slow, i say i would prefer buff that isn't as fast, you claim it would be ridiculously broken good because it'" 25% worse than your buff. Lol. I look at math and logic. You just pull claims out of air.

25% worse is silly good. Lol lol

Lol lol lol your saying deepstriking tankbustas is slow lol lol? Pulling stuff out of thin air you are.

How many times do I have to state about snakebite tankbustas?

Try stop thinking about boys for a change your statistics don't really do much in a game where anything can happen.... not everything is in a vacuum.

And to be brutally honest, I don't want a +1 to wound coming from a cheap ass mek. A reroll is fine.

I have fun and I win games, I don't want to trash can my opponent with the next best GW cheese.

I've came up with a solution to vehicles that doesn't involve a wave of boys and is effective vs all types of vehicles

LOL.. I don't hang out around here often (usually only looking for rumors when something I'm interested in is pending). Are all new GW releases treated with this level of scorn or are there books that everyone is thrilled with?

Just curious if there was Eldar rage, if Ad Mech generals were incredulous at the point cost of one of their tech-whatzits, or this is just an Ork trait. I see many people bemoaning the fact that GW can't properly point cost their models so I'm assuming everyone is in the same boat..

 quindia wrote:
LOL.. I don't hang out around here often (usually only looking for rumors when something I'm interested in is pending). Are all new GW releases treated with this level of scorn or are there books that everyone is thrilled with?

Just curious if there was Eldar rage, if Ad Mech generals were incredulous at the point cost of one of their tech-whatzits, or this is just an Ork trait. I see many people bemoaning the fact that GW can't properly point cost their models so I'm assuming everyone is in the same boat..

Sadly it seems to be dakka's nature. I only tend to frequent when b and c is down plus dakka often gets rumours quicker than other places.

 quindia wrote:
LOL.. I don't hang out around here often (usually only looking for rumors when something I'm interested in is pending). Are all new GW releases treated with this level of scorn or are there books that everyone is thrilled with?

Just curious if there was Eldar rage, if Ad Mech generals were incredulous at the point cost of one of their tech-whatzits, or this is just an Ork trait. I see many people bemoaning the fact that GW can't properly point cost their models so I'm assuming everyone is in the same boat..

If books are obviously and massively OP and undercosted like Astra Militarum, Craftworlds, Dark Eldar and Imperial Knights, there tend to be (somewhat) fewer complaints.

Books that are actually reasonably balanced, the gnashing of teeth tends to be worse.

You're on an internet forums. A place specifically designed to express people opinions. If you don't like it then don't come on here or try post positive opinions rather bogging down the forums with the same copy pasted message resulting in my responding with the same copy pasted message.

Anyway... Who is hyped for death skullz today? What we expecting in the preview you think?

Stompa degrading at 75% where as other vehicles degrade at 50% makes it basically a throw away unit already. 920 points on top of that? Might as well just melt down the sprues. New Ork combo is basically take your money + stompa and throw them both into a trash bin.

 quindia wrote:
LOL.. I don't hang out around here often (usually only looking for rumors when something I'm interested in is pending). Are all new GW releases treated with this level of scorn or are there books that everyone is thrilled with?

Just curious if there was Eldar rage, if Ad Mech generals were incredulous at the point cost of one of their tech-whatzits, or this is just an Ork trait. I see many people bemoaning the fact that GW can't properly point cost their models so I'm assuming everyone is in the same boat..

No, there was plenty of disappointment when the new eldar webway portal was also "not even if it was free" level bad, there were complaints when it was revealed Dark Eldar hqs would still be footslogging-only, there were complaints when Space Wolves needed day-1 errata, complaints when wraithknights were still unusably bad.

It is possible for someone to have a negative opinion on one fact while still having a positive opinion on the release as a whole. If you look on previous pages, you'll see plenty of positive reactions to positive reveals.

 quindia wrote:
LOL.. I don't hang out around here often (usually only looking for rumors when something I'm interested in is pending). Are all new GW releases treated with this level of scorn or are there books that everyone is thrilled with?

Just curious if there was Eldar rage, if Ad Mech generals were incredulous at the point cost of one of their tech-whatzits, or this is just an Ork trait. I see many people bemoaning the fact that GW can't properly point cost their models so I'm assuming everyone is in the same boat..

Its called critical thinking as each book is a collection of separate rules. If someone is thrilled OR has scorn for everything in a given book then they aren't using their brain very hard or they don't understand the game at all.

 lolman1c wrote:
Okay... welll... erm... just did a practice game with the new rules (new weapons, price and dakkadakka) for the stompa vs 2 Shadowswords.

Let's go through this mess....

Stompa: 920 points 40 wounds

vs

2 Shadowswords: 808 points 52 wounds

Turn 1: (stompa goes first)

1 damage from super gat
7 damage from deffkannon

total, 8 damage to 1 Shadow

Shadowsword turn 1:

4 damage from heavy bolters

73 wounds from the two Volcano Cannons...

-_-

We played another game when the stompa was charge range... He got 1 shadowsword down to about 10 wounds but then they both just pulled back and did 52 wounds to him.

This didn't happen. Mathematics doesn't exist. Play testing doesn't work. Just guess the stats and the points values and you'll be okay.

Wellllllll! Luckily for us we have a game from warhammer themselves tonight!

ORKS VS KNIGHTS!!!




this should be fun to watch.... XD

 lolman1c wrote:
Wellllllll! Luckily for us we have a game from warhammer themselves tonight!

ORKS VS KNIGHTS!!!

Spoiler:

this should be fun to watch.... XD

This seems like a bad way to showcase the new Orks.

That'll be cute.

At least they're reading the thread. Hi, GW.

Live, right? That game should be so embarassing for GW that there's no way they would publish it if it were pre-recorded.

We will see, a bit of me hopes it's all good (and they give the ork player weighted dice). This for me will tell me what the new codex really is.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Live, right? That game should be so embarassing for GW that there's no way they would publish it if it were pre-recorded.

We'll be able to see the realization steadily dawn in real time!

Thats pretty cool. My guess is that theyre going to be making a list primarily with new units/speed freeks. Curious to how it will turn out. My gut says that knights would stomp a list like that but GW wouldnt want to show off their new codex/models getting steamrolled either.

Is there even a way to intentionally or unintentionally build a Knight list so badly that this would be a fair matchup?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Live, right? That game should be so embarassing for GW that there's no way they would publish it if it were pre-recorded.

You mean embarrassing for the knight player right??


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Is there even a way to intentionally or unintentionally build a Knight list so badly that this would be a fair matchup?

All melee knights?

The melee knights (gallants) are monsters. I'd say maybe a valiant and crusaders with the rapid fire battle cannon & thermal cannon loadouts. Those aren't bad, just not as points efficient. And the autocannon carapace weapons since they are easily the least worth it IMO.

Maybe the preceptor if the don't bring armigers for him to buff.

But building a poor knight list is pretty difficult, they could just be playing the stratagems in a dumb manner to compensate. I doubt we'll see house raven

Just because Knights will be used, doesn't mean the person USING Knights understands how to play the game.