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From someone who knows, the stratagems this book has, combined with great cheap units makes for a very powerful book. I don't know that it is as meta-changing as knights, but I think a tournament Ork list just crushes knights.

okay, looked over the stream, Sam Pierson wrote the codex. Don;t harass him though! We're not animals!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tellyporta strategy in the new Codex allows players to drop 90 Choppa Boys within 9 inches of their opponent turn 2 for 3 CP.

And this is not Codex Creep.

The bad moons strategem to shoot twice with a unit seems exploitable with 15 tankbustas with squigs or with 15 lootas.

Still hilarious watching the streamers get dusted since it shows how clueless GW is.

Obviously their inability to design or balance a codex or build a list is not a surprise.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tellyporta strategy in the new Codex allows players to drop 90 Choppa Boys within 9 inches of their opponent turn 2 for 3 CP.

And this is not Codex Creep.

Rumor is 20pl worth of models.

20boyz is 9 PL, and 30boyz is 13pl.

So, at best, you're getting 20+20boyz, plus a random 2pl model.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tellyporta strategy in the new Codex allows players to drop 90 Choppa Boys within 9 inches of their opponent turn 2 for 3 CP.

And this is not Codex Creep.

It only works on one unit...so 30 boyz

Yeah, even based on information provided this book looks extremely solid for tournament play. Some of the things you guys are freaking out about are adorable. With the bump in CP battalions give now ork boyz are going to be sick let alone other items.

 lolman1c wrote:
I'm not necessarily saying this tells us the codex is bad but that was just embarrassing... you could see it on their faces... Did not show off the codex at all! They should have just done imperial guard or something... oh gawd... I just feel depressed after that...

<Shrug>

The quality of lists and play on the table is terrible on the GW stream. Now for knights which are currently so point and click that a random noob off the street could win with them that is not a big problem. For any normal codex that takes a modicum of skill to play well it is clearly too much to expect.

Whatever. Means nothing.

I find it really funny half the people here think this is going to be a solid/OP codex and the other half think its going to be trash. Complete opposite ends of the spectrum

 Hulksmash wrote:
Yeah, even based on information provided this book looks extremely solid for tournament play. Some of the things you guys are freaking out about are adorable. With the bump in CP battalions give now ork boyz are going to be sick let alone other items.

Yea tell me about it. Average ork list should have minimum of 14 CP, but easily more. The traits and strats are all gross.

What's the exact limitation on the Shoot Twice? I assume stompa can't do that...

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
What's the exact limitation on the Shoot Twice? I assume stompa can't do that...

Probably nothing. I haven't seen a single drawback to any of the strats or traits yet. Someone will still claim it's too much

I mean, if the Stompa can shoot twice it's preeeeeeeeeeeeetty good.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Yeah, even based on information provided this book looks extremely solid for tournament play. Some of the things you guys are freaking out about are adorable. With the bump in CP battalions give now ork boyz are going to be sick let alone other items.

We shall see, but watching the GW design team get embarrassed in a show game they just streamed against Imperial knights ("orks never lose. They just die. Every single one of them...") was not super encouraging, bro.

Seeing the basic troop choice go up 17% doesn't encourage me.

It's a matter of interlocking all the new moving parts - strategems, clan traits and what unit synergies are available. All things we can't do right now. The one demo game we've seen from GW was a humiliating loss for the new codex orks.

Message to the GW employees who check these forums.

I have a few spare hours each week (this seems like it'd be more than enough time to improve things for you...) and would happily help you avoid dumpster fire quality army previews like the 'battle' we just witnessed.

Who the hell thought putting THAT Ork list up against Knights was a good idea?

Eating up just shy of 900pts with a Stompa that did nothing but act like a sponge for a couple turns. How the hell has that made it in to the Codex virtually unchanged. It's been known for months how massively over-costed it is. Just about every unbiased player could quickly run some numbers, play a couple of match up scenarios and you'd probably end up with a price in the 500-600pt range. Show case more of the new cool stuff! Make people HYPED to buy some Orks and play some games. Give them a fighting chance by playing a more even match up.

Did the guys playing have any practice games? This is the most basic professional step when giving a presentation, or performing any skill live. You practice. Like A LOT. You get your game nailed down tight. This stream was the opposite with numerous rules/abilities getting confused or muddled up etc.

Do you guys have a constructive post game debriefing? Is there someone who ISN'T afraid to upset people when asking them how things went, why they chose a specific list and match up? If not you should implement it to prevent such terrible pre-launch events from happening again. I thought 'new GW' was all about the PR so for these bad preview battles to continue seems bizarre.

I could go on and on....

Seems like an absolute fail on many levels.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I mean, if the Stompa can shoot twice it's preeeeeeeeeeeeetty good.

Not if it dies or is severely degraded long, long before it ever gets to shoot on turn 1.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I mean, if the Stompa can shoot twice it's preeeeeeeeeeeeetty good.

Even if it can't it's not bad. The main issue it has is your putting all your eggs in one basket. That's not an ork specific issue though. If you make it too cheap you just put another castellan in the meta which is TERRIBLE. Especially considering it's harder to fix with composition since orks come with their own chaf and CP batteries. Personally I wish they moved those 600+ point units out of matched play. They can be as good as they want there.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
According to the army lists posted earlier;

Boys up to 7ppm, as we know.
MA Big Mek same cost with KFF. Kustom Shoota down to 2 pts.
Painboy up 8 pts.
Wazbomb Blastajet up 13 pts.
Weirdboy same cost.
Bikes down 4ppm.

What sort of squig-brained madboy thought the wazbomb blastajet was undercosted.

Even if people find some stupid gak combo that can obliterate tournaments that doesn't make it a good Codex, or a strong Codex. A Codex is more than one army list.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

What worries me is that the guy who is supposed to be the lead dev on our codex seems to have no idea how Orks play or the datasheets of the different units. He's had to check multiple units multiple times to remind himself what they do....

Based on the 7th ed ork codex, that honestly sounds like business as usual.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
According to the army lists posted earlier;

Boys up to 7ppm, as we know.
MA Big Mek same cost with KFF. Kustom Shoota down to 2 pts.
Painboy up 8 pts.
Wazbomb Blastajet up 13 pts.
Weirdboy same cost.
Bikes down 4ppm.

What sort of squig-brained madboy thought the wazbomb blastajet was undercosted.

Think there was something about KFF being changed to only having to touch a unit, not totally cover it. So that is probably the explanation. Makes the KFF really strong.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Yeah, even based on information provided this book looks extremely solid for tournament play. Some of the things you guys are freaking out about are adorable. With the bump in CP battalions give now ork boyz are going to be sick let alone other items.

We shall see, but watching the GW design team get embarrassed in a show game they just streamed against Imperial knights ("orks never lose. They just die. Every single one of them...") was not super encouraging, bro.

Seeing the basic troop choice go up 17% doesn't encourage me.

It's a matter of interlocking all the new moving parts - strategems, clan traits and what unit synergies are available. All things we can't do right now. The one demo game we've seen from GW was a humiliating loss for the new codex orks.

Your right, it seems poor for marketing but nearly every previewed codex has been crushed on stream. At this point I think it might be intentional to squash hysteria over creep. But that would be giving them too much credit. I think they just want to show off some of everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even if people find some stupid gak combo that can obliterate tournaments that doesn't make it a good Codex, or a strong Codex. A Codex is more than one army list.

I can think of several builds off the top of my head though.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even if people find some stupid gak combo that can obliterate tournaments that doesn't make it a good Codex, or a strong Codex. A Codex is more than one army list.

I think there are going to be NUMEROUS synergies, unit + stratagem combinations - so fingers crossed it is a strong Codex as you say. With a lot more than just 1 'OP' combo. Am just upset that GW still absolutely up stuff that is really primary school basic like the Stompa points and the quality of that preview game. It should be a showcase of Orky awesomeness. Not 'lets table them with knights in 3 turns'

 Billagio wrote:
I find it really funny half the people here think this is going to be a solid/OP codex and the other half think its going to be trash. Complete opposite ends of the spectrum

Some people want to be OP so others complain about them, and some want to be trash tier so they can complain themselves. Worst case scenario is mid tier then everybody is unhappy.

From what little i've been following, this seems like quite a good book. There is a lot of synergy and effective tricks here. The stratagems are good and Kulturs are excellent.

They should be hiding knights under the carpet until CA2018. Stupid thing to face the orks with. To face anyone with for that matter.

happy_inquisitor wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
I'm not necessarily saying this tells us the codex is bad but that was just embarrassing... you could see it on their faces... Did not show off the codex at all! They should have just done imperial guard or something... oh gawd... I just feel depressed after that...

<Shrug>

The quality of lists and play on the table is terrible on the GW stream. Now for knights which are currently so point and click that a random noob off the street could win with them that is not a big problem. For any normal codex that takes a modicum of skill to play well it is clearly too much to expect.

Whatever. Means nothing.

Ha, I think they should just have the Orks in 3 or 5 games back to back against a variety of armies just to see what happens. Better still the Orks in one game every day for ever.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

What worries me is that the guy who is supposed to be the lead dev on our codex seems to have no idea how Orks play or the datasheets of the different units. He's had to check multiple units multiple times to remind himself what they do....

Based on the 7th ed ork codex, that honestly sounds like business as usual.

Or more likely the player has filled his head up with his new project and hasn't looked at the Orks recently enough to remember off the top of his head.

I'd love to try and take a orkanaut/stompa list v. knights, I think it'd be fun and fluffy, but they're SO MORK-DAMNED BAD. Even now, it would seem.

Hell, I played a game of 2500 pts combined marines and knights v. 4300 points of stompas about a month ago. Got completely creamed. Would have only taken down only one knight the whole game except my very last stompa exploded and killed his last 2.

It would have been nice if they had fixed, you know, something.

Honestly they probably should have had orks facing orks. It's both funny/fluffy and it would give them 4000 points to showcase with, and every turn would be an active and defensive ork turn. It's also harder for folks to go the other way and worry about creep since it's a mirror match.