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 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Did anyone else catch them say grots are 5 pts per model on stream?

Even if I did I would see a hearing aid specialist before I would believe that.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah...............7 PPM boyz I can see. 5 PPM grots I cannot.

What Knight House was used for the bat rep by the way?

7PPM boyz is workable, it sucks if they had 0 stat buffs or something to compensate (im fine with literally dropping numbers but keeping overall strength similar) but 5ppm grots?

Unless they gave grots access to Shootas, f off with that nonsense.

 BrookM wrote:
What Knight House was used for the bat rep by the way?

Taranis. He actually saved quite a few wounds with the FNP. I think the Errant might have died without it.

I play Taranis and was building a Styrix while watching the vid. Felt good... but not for the orks.

Okay I do not believe grots are 5pts each! That would be beyond stupid. Seriously, didn't hear that in the stream.

Btw, just saw this on the Warhammer Reddit a few mins ago... I'll leave it here.

Has any army that was actually shown in this "new codex" streams... won? I remember both Thousand Sons and Deathwatch being trashed in their streams when the codex was gonna be released. Also, yeah, playing a ork-heavy titan army vs the most op-titans of the game that are specialized in taking down other titans was just... not very smart.

There was the Imperial Knight bat rep, which featured Knight versus Knight, though IIRC it suffered from wonky "special" rules and whatnot thrown in for the sake of things.

Does the FNP for House Taranis make the knight cost 1 point more?

Just checking.

 Billagio wrote:
Ramming speed 2CP, 3D6 charge D3 MWs on a 2+ (?)

Is that one actually real? I'm starting to doubt it to be honest, almost too good with a Tellyport Gorkanaut...

Knights are so boring. That's why I've been playing Killteam, and maybe 1000-1500 pt lists lately.

I want to test the Stompa and/or Orkanaut against IK at home but I have only the index for IK. Are the IK much better in the Codex?

In terms of PL, to do a rough comparison, I would need 2 IK + 2 Armiger against 1 Stompa + 1 Orkanaut, correct?

What I forgot to add to my previous post: I'm pretty hyped for the new Battle wagon profiles. Having a shooty version with bs4+ as well as reduced point cost will be the closest I can get to tanks as an Ork so that makes me pretty happy. As well as being able to avoid the rule of 3 if I really want to go heavy on the Battle wagons. Which if the rules are good will be limited by my wallet more than my willingness to play a BW list.

I laugh when people here told me to try out the new stompa vs normal knights as playing against shadowsword was unfair (despite the shadow sword now confirmed to be less than half it's points). Well there we have it! It's trash... I just really wish i could know why that dude who wrote the ork codex went "Yep, 890 points... sounds about right!" Did he not even play it once! Did he not even role some dice?

 nflagey wrote:
I want to test the Stompa and/or Orkanaut against IK at home but I have only the index for IK. Are the IK much better in the Codex?

In terms of PL, to do a rough comparison, I would need 2 IK + 2 Armiger against 1 Stompa + 1 Orkanaut, correct?

I honestly don't know how much the IKs changed from index to codex, but I do know why the codex is so strong - their warlord traits, house bonuses, stratagems, and relics. And I think they got deep points cuts, too.

Long story boring, with the right stratagems and relics, you have a knight with a 3+ invlun, 5A, WS2, wounds on 2+, AP4, D8, which gets +2 to move and charge, can advance and charge, which means it has a 25" - 30" threat range.

All of THAT is cheaper than a gorkanaut. And could kill a stompa in one round.

It's bonkers.

fe40k wrote:
For what its worth, they were playing a PL game.

"My list started with a Stompa, a Gorkanaut, and a Morkanaut, but then I realized that was 120pl"

He also said that he was a new ork player, and wanted to make a Stompa list; and then afterwards, he said he still wanted to make a Stompa list work - so; can't blame it too much, the Stompa is overpriced scrap; and he was battling against Knights...

But I thought he was some kind of dev? So... You know... if you wanted to make a Stompa list work... Start with asking why its priced at more than 500pts?

Pandabeer wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Ramming speed 2CP, 3D6 charge D3 MWs on a 2+ (?)

Is that one actually real? I'm starting to doubt it to be honest, almost too good with a Tellyport Gorkanaut...

Pretty sure. They didnt show the stratagem but I believe it was used in the batrep when the Wartrike charged the Armiger

 nflagey wrote:
I want to test the Stompa and/or Orkanaut against IK at home but I have only the index for IK. Are the IK much better in the Codex?

In terms of PL, to do a rough comparison, I would need 2 IK + 2 Armiger against 1 Stompa + 1 Orkanaut, correct?

Knights have gone from crap to OP with the codex, although I kinda feel that a major contribution to this are a few specific things: Ion Bulwark + Rotate Ion Shields (when fielding a single Knight), Paragon Gauntlet (no to hit penalty AND +2D is WAY too much. One of those needs to go) and Cawls' Wrath (Plasma Decimator that doubles damage output on normal mode and +50% on overcharged mode... I also think it got +1S on both modes? Extra damage needs to go and be replaced by roll 3d6 pick two highest for shot count or something). Also points costs for Castellan and Helverin are probably on the low side.

But yeah, your PL level estimation is about correct I'd say. With the addition that the big knights need to be Questoris and not Dominus class to keep things equal PL-wise.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 nflagey wrote:
I want to test the Stompa and/or Orkanaut against IK at home but I have only the index for IK. Are the IK much better in the Codex?

In terms of PL, to do a rough comparison, I would need 2 IK + 2 Armiger against 1 Stompa + 1 Orkanaut, correct?

I honestly don't know how much the IKs changed from index to codex, but I do know why the codex is so strong - their warlord traits, house bonuses, stratagems, and relics. And I think they got deep points cuts, too.

Long story boring, with the right stratagems and relics, you have a knight with a 3+ invlun, 5A, WS2, wounds on 2+, AP4, D8, which gets +2 to move and charge, can advance and charge, which means it has a 25" - 30" threat range.

All of THAT is cheaper than a gorkanaut. And could kill a stompa in one round.

It's bonkers.

- 3++ is only vs. shooting unless you take a specific relic that I don't remember the name of that grants you that same bonus in CC. Also you can't have both Ion Bulwark (only way to get 3++) and Landstrider on the same Knight because both are Warlord Traits.
- A Gallant is about 350 points? Looking at PL the Gorkanaut will clock in at about 250-300 (comparing to the index Gorkanaut isn't fair, although I'm not sure how much that one costs when kitted out).

Not saying that Knights aren't OP but especially the Gallant kinda needs Landstrider + Full Tilt + 5A WS2 in order to be viable. Should go up in price though and the Paragon Gauntlet should definitely be nerfed (either no penalty to hit or the D8 needs to go).

crzylgs wrote:

fe40k wrote:
For what its worth, they were playing a PL game.

"My list started with a Stompa, a Gorkanaut, and a Morkanaut, but then I realized that was 120pl"

He also said that he was a new ork player, and wanted to make a Stompa list; and then afterwards, he said he still wanted to make a Stompa list work - so; can't blame it too much, the Stompa is overpriced scrap; and he was battling against Knights...

But I thought he was some kind of dev? So... You know... if you wanted to make a Stompa list work... Start with asking why its priced at more than 500pts?

Dude, you had one of the lead devs saying it could take on two stompa no problem as 1 knight walks through a gork and just kills the stompa... Seriously. They must have (when the camera went off) gone "What the actual feth? Why did we price it at that?" and then a man leans in and goes "yes... this will kill of the orks! Once they realise how much money they wasted on design and marketing they will surely get rid of orks forever! Muahahahaaaaaa" ( this is all a joke of course i don;t think this actually happened).

 nflagey wrote:
I want to test the Stompa and/or Orkanaut against IK at home but I have only the index for IK. Are the IK much better in the Codex?

In terms of PL, to do a rough comparison, I would need 2 IK + 2 Armiger against 1 Stompa + 1 Orkanaut, correct?

They are cheaper in general but it's mostly stratagems and relics that make up the difference.
I can give you the PL of knights from the codex but don't have the index around.
Both armiger variants are 9PL each
The preceptor, the warden & the paladin are 23PL
The errant is 22PL
The gallant is 20PL
The crusader is 25PL
Canis rex (the character) is 23PL
And the valiant and the castellan are 30PL


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Ramming speed 2CP, 3D6 charge D3 MWs on a 2+ (?)

Is that one actually real? I'm starting to doubt it to be honest, almost too good with a Tellyport Gorkanaut...

They used that very strat during the game, so one would hope it's real

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Did anyone else catch them say grots are 5 pts per model on stream?

Even if I did I would see a hearing aid specialist before I would believe that.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah...............7 PPM boyz I can see. 5 PPM grots I cannot.

Pre-orders are up, and one of the photos clearly shows the Grot unit entry at 3ppm https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Codex-Orks-ibook-2018

 lolman1c wrote:

crzylgs wrote:

fe40k wrote:
For what its worth, they were playing a PL game.

"My list started with a Stompa, a Gorkanaut, and a Morkanaut, but then I realized that was 120pl"

He also said that he was a new ork player, and wanted to make a Stompa list; and then afterwards, he said he still wanted to make a Stompa list work - so; can't blame it too much, the Stompa is overpriced scrap; and he was battling against Knights...

But I thought he was some kind of dev? So... You know... if you wanted to make a Stompa list work... Start with asking why its priced at more than 500pts?

Dude, you had one of the lead devs saying it could take on two stompa no problem as 1 knight walks through a gork and just kills the stompa... Seriously. They must have (when the camera went off) gone "What the actual feth? Why did we price it at that?" and then a man leans in and goes "yes... this will kill of the orks! Once they realise how much money they wasted on design and marketing they will surely get rid of orks forever! Muahahahaaaaaa" ( this is all a joke of course i don;t think this actually happened).

I knew John Bracken way back when i first ever started Warhammer. He was in the Hanley store in Stoke. Nice guy but he was just a manager back then. I remember fighting against him at battle brothers in Warhammer world and trashed his space marines with my looted tanks (R.I.P )

He has the typical over hyped GW store manager mentality when it comes to any of their products so of course he will big up the stompa, but i didnt know he became a game dev! He always booked my tables at warhammer world for me when he moved there

 Billagio wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Ramming speed 2CP, 3D6 charge D3 MWs on a 2+ (?)

Is that one actually real? I'm starting to doubt it to be honest, almost too good with a Tellyport Gorkanaut...

Pretty sure. They didnt show the stratagem but I believe it was used in the batrep when the Wartrike charged the Armiger

In that case: Gorkanaut, here I come!

 Red Corsair wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

fe40k wrote:
They were just mentioning that from a competitive standpoint, his plan is to get into melee; the shooting is just a bonus.

I hope a decent (albeit if not the most competitive) list can be made from shooting units.

Your joking right? You can take 9 shock jump buggies for under 1K and make them def skulls. They hit on a 3 with a free reroll to hit, wound and damage roll EACH. This book is not difficult to power game at all from the leaked cultures and strats alone.

All that crying over imaginary spilled milk with boys being 7ppm, and now what the few were telling you, wait and see, turns out to be true and worse. Turns out you can easily start the game with a full battalion of blood axes with 4+ saves and maxed defskull buggies between them form an outrider, oh whats that? They will shoot the buggies? Right, so you not only have a 6++ but when it does finally go down, without degrading, for only 1cp one of those bricks of 30 blood ax boys becomes 3+ save...

This books traits are easily the most broken the game has seen. Some of these klans are getting 2-3 other factions traits all rolled into one and some even better.

In order to get those 4+ saves you need to burn 2Cp though, unless boyz now have 5+ saves base. Still bloody good though.

2 cp is a joke. It hits 30 guys and lasts all game. Guard has +1 to a 10 man unit for a phase at 1cp. How anyone can figure thats expensive is beyond me. A single blood axe battalion brings 5 CP, so for 1 more and only 630 you get 90 4+ save boys...

Blood aces with the +2 cover save are elites and can't go to 30 models at army creation

Pandabeer wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Ramming speed 2CP, 3D6 charge D3 MWs on a 2+ (?)

Is that one actually real? I'm starting to doubt it to be honest, almost too good with a Tellyport Gorkanaut...

Pretty sure. They didnt show the stratagem but I believe it was used in the batrep when the Wartrike charged the Armiger

In that case: Gorkanaut, here I come!

Yeah should be good! I would wait for the actual wording first though.

 lolman1c wrote:
I laugh when people here told me to try out the new stompa vs normal knights as playing against shadowsword was unfair (despite the shadow sword now confirmed to be less than half it's points). Well there we have it! It's trash... I just really wish i could know why that dude who wrote the ork codex went "Yep, 890 points... sounds about right!" Did he not even play it once! Did he not even role some dice?

Again there is a broader problem of Shadowswords distinctly being titan killers as well as knights being a wee bit undercosted. And they fought 3 plus armigers. And didn't have first turn. And lost the scrapjet, which could have put some pain out, too.

blaktoof wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

fe40k wrote:
They were just mentioning that from a competitive standpoint, his plan is to get into melee; the shooting is just a bonus.

I hope a decent (albeit if not the most competitive) list can be made from shooting units.

Your joking right? You can take 9 shock jump buggies for under 1K and make them def skulls. They hit on a 3 with a free reroll to hit, wound and damage roll EACH. This book is not difficult to power game at all from the leaked cultures and strats alone.

All that crying over imaginary spilled milk with boys being 7ppm, and now what the few were telling you, wait and see, turns out to be true and worse. Turns out you can easily start the game with a full battalion of blood axes with 4+ saves and maxed defskull buggies between them form an outrider, oh whats that? They will shoot the buggies? Right, so you not only have a 6++ but when it does finally go down, without degrading, for only 1cp one of those bricks of 30 blood ax boys becomes 3+ save...

This books traits are easily the most broken the game has seen. Some of these klans are getting 2-3 other factions traits all rolled into one and some even better.

In order to get those 4+ saves you need to burn 2Cp though, unless boyz now have 5+ saves base. Still bloody good though.

2 cp is a joke. It hits 30 guys and lasts all game. Guard has +1 to a 10 man unit for a phase at 1cp. How anyone can figure thats expensive is beyond me. A single blood axe battalion brings 5 CP, so for 1 more and only 630 you get 90 4+ save boys...

Blood aces with the +2 cover save are elites and can't go to 30 models at army creation

Hes on about 'ard boy blood axes, for 6cp you'll have 90 4+ save boys vs shooting

 xttz wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Did anyone else catch them say grots are 5 pts per model on stream?

Even if I did I would see a hearing aid specialist before I would believe that.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah...............7 PPM boyz I can see. 5 PPM grots I cannot.

Pre-orders are up, and one of the photos clearly shows the Grot unit entry at 3ppm https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Codex-Orks-ibook-2018

Have Grots always had a 3" move?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60630103022_CodexOrksiBook04.jpg

 Billagio wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Ramming speed 2CP, 3D6 charge D3 MWs on a 2+ (?)

Is that one actually real? I'm starting to doubt it to be honest, almost too good with a Tellyport Gorkanaut...

Pretty sure. They didnt show the stratagem but I believe it was used in the batrep when the Wartrike charged the Armiger

In that case: Gorkanaut, here I come!

Yeah should be good! I would wait for the actual wording first though.

Yeah I know, not going to buy one immediately, my wallet would disapprove as well Tomorrow will be Codex + Trike preorder and Speed Freeks will also be waiting for me tomorrow so the 'Naut will have to wait till December (+ a Skrapjet or Arachnarok Spider to use as a Deffrolla Wagon proxy).

Grots get T-shirts!

NVM forgot they already had them!

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
I laugh when people here told me to try out the new stompa vs normal knights as playing against shadowsword was unfair (despite the shadow sword now confirmed to be less than half it's points). Well there we have it! It's trash... I just really wish i could know why that dude who wrote the ork codex went "Yep, 890 points... sounds about right!" Did he not even play it once! Did he not even role some dice?

Again there is a broader problem of Shadowswords distinctly being titan killers as well as knights being a wee bit undercosted. And they fought 3 plus armigers. And didn't have first turn. And lost the scrapjet, which could have put some pain out, too.

Seriously, if I hadn't have watched the live stream i wouldn't be as upset but that was terrible marketing. Do not over hype your product to the point it's basically false advertising then show how false it is in the next ten seconds. I really got super exited for the stompa and nauts and then just got smashed when i saw them die... The point of marketing is that is influences how you feel about a product and this could be the best codex ever but that was just awful! And to see points go up on units that seriously needed a buff is also unbelievable. Look at the flyer! It has gone up by 16pts! It's a unit I've never actually seen in real life because it was so bad in 7th and the index. XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CaptainBetts wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Did anyone else catch them say grots are 5 pts per model on stream?

Even if I did I would see a hearing aid specialist before I would believe that.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah...............7 PPM boyz I can see. 5 PPM grots I cannot.

Pre-orders are up, and one of the photos clearly shows the Grot unit entry at 3ppm https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Codex-Orks-ibook-2018

Have Grots always had a 3" move?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60630103022_CodexOrksiBook04.jpg

I think that's a 5 and the quality is just bad.