Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 lolman1c wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Haighus wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
KMK - 48 pts..... But d6 dng per shot.

How has it changed? I don't have the index.

Used to be d3 damage. However, i don't think d6 damage justified a double points value.

Umm wasn't it 42 pts before? So 48 pts now=not really double is it? Even weapon itself was 23 pts IIRC so 6 pts more isn't doubling. Well assuming that 48 refers to whole package and not just gun...If that's gun only...Bejezuz. Bye bye KMK's.

We lost 3 of the most iconic Hq's. Warboss in mega armour, big mek with kff and bigmek/warboss on warbike. I know people say we have a new wartrike but i feel bad for the Badmoonz players who now have to dredge a index around with an overpriced outdated data sheet that will be gone in a year or two.

 aracersss wrote:
two things that need answer ... are boy 7ps & grotz 5pts?

Uuuh boyz are 7 pts but sheesh 5 pts grots? That would be sick nerf to grots. 66% price hike when it's not exactly broken unit in itself(does someone else besides me even use like 120+ grots anyway?). More expensive than IG troopers who have +1WS, S, T, lot better LD, better guns and orders. Lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lolman1c wrote:
We lost 3 of the most iconic Hq's. Warboss in mega armour, big mek with kff and bigmek/warboss on warbike. I know people say we have a new wartrike but i feel bad for the Badmoonz players who now have to dredge a index around with an overpriced outdated data sheet that will be gone in a year or two.

Last worry isn't a worry. GW is too greedy for that.

I won't preorder anything right now, I haven't even received my Speed Freeks box yet.

I will get at least one trike later, and I don't even have trukks or any BWs yet, since my brother and I stopped dabbling in Orks/GW stuff before those even came out. Just footsloggers here (and excactl one of the old bikes I upgraded my a stormboy driver and a few shiny gubbinz last week). So those vehicles probably have priority oversomw more maybe-not-so-useful buggies. Unless mechanised mobs still suck. Which would be bad. This uncertainty and different ideas for Ork armies makes me wait well after the codex I think.

Then I can see if I should do Mad Dok Immortan Ork and his Bloodbag Collectors that turn bodies into fuel ingredients and stimulants for the speed waaagh, or the grounded Deff Skwadron Skrapjet swarm backed up by mechanised, uniformed Orks still haven't quite left their stormboyz phase. Or are Blood Axes.

I also have a spare Taurox that I plan to give normal front tires and huuuuge rear tires to hopefully make it look squat and aggressive. With its cannon plus rocket battery build it could be a...dragsta? Or a skrapjet if I put some huge ram on it, or some Stormfiend drills, maybe.


PS: I still don't get how they didn't use this "speed freaks subfaction" release as some here have described it to remove 20 year old models in the trakk/skorcha and GoMa kopta. No infantry, ok, makes sense if you see this release as something like a new Stormcast chamber or even "booster packs" for the Speed Freeks game. Deffkoptas will get SF rules according to one community blurb and new trakks could race as easily as a new buggy type.

I might be biased, though, seeing how flame thrower tanks are one of my favourite 40k thing and the skorcha my favourite Ork model back then.

 lolman1c wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 nflagey wrote:
Killa Kans don't have the Kultur keyword ...

Hopefully Mek Gunz don't, either.

Shooty Battlewagon has double tap. Oh my.

But if mek gunz don't have Kultur then bad moonz players will lose out...

Yes, but the KMK got a boost and would be absolutely broken as Deathskullz

tneva82 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Haighus wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
KMK - 48 pts..... But d6 dng per shot.

How has it changed? I don't have the index.

Used to be d3 damage. However, i don't think d6 damage justified a double points value.

Umm wasn't it 42 pts before? So 48 pts now=not really double is it? Even weapon itself was 23 pts IIRC so 6 pts more isn't doubling. Well assuming that 48 refers to whole package and not just gun...If that's gun only...Bejezuz. Bye bye KMK's.

The video i watched said it was just the gun but i might be wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 nflagey wrote:
Killa Kans don't have the Kultur keyword ...

Hopefully Mek Gunz don't, either.

Shooty Battlewagon has double tap. Oh my.

But if mek gunz don't have Kultur then bad moonz players will lose out...

Yes, but the KMK got a boost and would be absolutely broken as Deathskullz

Maybe we might actually be able to kill a single knight then.

kustom blasta buggy 100pts
boomdakka 95pts
dragsta 108pts
squig buggy 140?
scrappajet 90pts

No word on bikers yet? I dont have access to YouTube right now. Please tell me they got a buff

 lolman1c wrote:
We lost 3 of the most iconic Hq's. Warboss in mega armour, big mek with kff and bigmek/warboss on warbike. I know people say we have a new wartrike but i feel bad for the Badmoonz players who now have to dredge a index around with an overpriced outdated data sheet that will be gone in a year or two.

Apparently the warboss went up in points, so the Badmoons MA warboss should be fine. The biker warboss is also fine from the index, so my warboss will keep on driving and enjoy his new Bloodaxe 3+ save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Morkphoiz wrote:
No word on bikers yet? I dont have access to YouTube right now. Please tell me they got a buff

23 ppm, otherwise unchanged.

 Rismonite wrote:
I don't understand though, I totally have a finecast Big Mek with KFF that is not in MA.

Do GW still sell this model?

That's all it takes for something to lose its place in the rules.

No model = no rules.

Apologies if already mentioned. Seems ‘Ere We Go is now re-roll any charge dice, not the 2D6.

Small but decent change. No need to sacrifice that 5 or 6!

 lolman1c wrote:


The video i watched said it was just the gun but i might be wrong. .

Well better hope it was just confusing way to say as 48 pts just for gun would be sick. Okay KMK is popular in tournament so maybe GW thought it's brokenly good but hell it was only thing orks had that killed anything for reasonable price and other mek guns weren't picked because KMK was brokenly good but because every other just flat SUCKED.

48 pts gun...So that would be 48+15+10=73 pts per mek gun and those are fairly easy to take out. Lol. So much for people's idea of dethskull KMK batteries.

It basically goes back to what we had 7th edition. It was probably just an oversight when writing the index that was corrected now.

Thank you, what about nob bikes?

Mek Gunz

15 base
No more crews to shoot.

Traktor Kannon auto hits.
Smasha D3

Bubblechukka 32
KMK 43
Traktor 30

No word on Kultur yet.

Yeah, all gretchin units don't have the Kultur keyword... so yeah... i mean it does kinda break the lore... also my list...

Also rokkits are the same price for some unknown reason for boyz.

Also, the kff is still wholly within. The guy on the stream didn't know what he was talking about.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Apologies if already mentioned. Seems ‘Ere We Go is now re-roll any charge dice, not the 2D6.

Small but decent change. No need to sacrifice that 5 or 6!

But you are screwed if you roll 1 and 2 then? I was using command rerolls to reroll 1 or 2 keeping 5 or 6 so generally this would be slow down for me actually. I find often botching both dice bad enough rerolling both is more common than rolling 5 or 6 and rolling low with dice again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lolman1c wrote:
Yeah, all gretchin units don't have the Kultur keyword... so yeah... i mean it does kinda break the lore... also my list...

Also rokkits are the same price for some unknown reason for boyz.

Oh no bad moon etc bonuses? You know despite being actually nerf of sort I'm glad. Saves my ass with my models that are based on mixed colours so separating by clans is PITA! However I might still have to do that if clan needs to match for warboss/runtherd morale boost(assuming warboss anymore helps with grot morale) at which point I still need to figure way and they don't even benefit from clan rule :(

@tneva: It's re-roll one or both.

 lolman1c wrote:


Also, the kff is still wholly within. The guy on the stream didn't know what he was talking about.

Makes more sense with the stratagem.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Mek Gunz

15 base
No more crews to shoot.

Traktor Kannon auto hits.
Smasha D3

Bubblechukka 32
KMK 43
Traktor 30

No word on Kultur yet.

So KMK went in total up to 58? Oh yeah that makes sense. Let's nerf one of the few reasonable units from the ork list. And of course overall nerf to mek guns with loss of crew units. Lol. Orks getting some nerfbatting as well.

So Mek Gunz now just shoot by themselves with no crew at all?

Sure are a lot of inexplicable little nerfs in there.

tneva82 wrote:

So KMK went in total up to 58? Oh yeah that makes sense. Let's nerf one of the few reasonable units from the ork list. And of course overall nerf to mek guns with loss of crew units. Lol. Orks getting some nerfbatting as well.

Losing crew really isn't a nerf. You couldn't typically shoot them anyway, but for people who can't deploy well you can't deepstrike them from behind.

It's essentially 16 points for a BS4 S8 AP3 D6 shot, which is more than reasonable.

tneva82 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Apologies if already mentioned. Seems ‘Ere We Go is now re-roll any charge dice, not the 2D6.

Small but decent change. No need to sacrifice that 5 or 6!

But you are screwed if you roll 1 and 2 then? I was using command rerolls to reroll 1 or 2 keeping 5 or 6 so generally this would be slow down for me actually. I find often botching both dice bad enough rerolling both is more common than rolling 5 or 6 and rolling low with dice again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lolman1c wrote:
Yeah, all gretchin units don't have the Kultur keyword... so yeah... i mean it does kinda break the lore... also my list...

Also rokkits are the same price for some unknown reason for boyz.

Oh no bad moon etc bonuses? You know despite being actually nerf of sort I'm glad. Saves my ass with my models that are based on mixed colours so separating by clans is PITA! However I might still have to do that if clan needs to match for warboss/runtherd morale boost(assuming warboss anymore helps with grot morale) at which point I still need to figure way and they don't even benefit from clan rule :(

But this blows up the argument that we are paying for the traits... units that cannot take the traits have stil gone up in cost!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Sure are a lot of inexplicable little nerfs in there.

Yep, all builds up... to me i feel the nerfs out way any buffs we got. To be honest most of the units haven't changed at all and stayed the same points... burnas and loots are still over priced 6+ save units... i mean you could play them as blood axes but what if your not a blood axe player? What happens then?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

So KMK went in total up to 58? Oh yeah that makes sense. Let's nerf one of the few reasonable units from the ork list. And of course overall nerf to mek guns with loss of crew units. Lol. Orks getting some nerfbatting as well.

Losing crew really isn't a nerf. You couldn't typically shoot them anyway, but for people who can't deploy well you can't deepstrike them from behind.

It's essentially 16 points for a BS4 S8 AP3 D6 shot, which is more than reasonable.

Ummm yes it is nerf. I have used the crew to various things effectively. Stuff like spreading them around to block deep striking, generally get in way, go take objectives(remember you could have 1 set of crew control 3 guns and have 2 sets of 5 go around). Sacrificial roadblocks have been used. Once they pissed off dark eldar player who couldn't shoot my warlord due to them with unit that was good at killing him while only unit that was in position to kill crew was unable to shoot at them due to 3rd unit being too close to that dark eldar unit.

Those 5 strong grot crews with no guns have actually been my MVP's time to time. They have even decided couple wins for me.

How losing that is NOT a nerf? Now all they do is take space so if you have the grot crew on board you are worse off than without but if you don't have them you get accused of MFA.

And 16 pts? 43+15=58 pts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lolman1c wrote:


But this blows up the argument that we are paying for the traits... units that cannot take the traits have stil gone up in cost!

Umm you don't pay for the trait. That has been obvious from the day of 1st codex. If that would be true points would have been going up in codexes when they have been going down or stayed same. Anybody with mediocre of sense knows GW puts 0 price for traits, warlord traits, strategems etc.

tneva82 wrote:


Ummm yes it is nerf. I have used the crew to various things effectively. Stuff like spreading them around to block deep striking, generally get in way, go take objectives(remember you could have 1 set of crew control 3 guns and have 2 sets of 5 go around). Sacrificial roadblocks have been used. Once they pissed off dark eldar player who couldn't shoot my warlord due to them with unit that was good at killing him while only unit that was in position to kill crew was unable to shoot at them due to 3rd unit being too close to that dark eldar unit.

Those 5 strong grot crews with no guns have actually been my MVP's time to time. They have even decided couple wins for me.

And 16 pts? 43+15=58 pts.

They're not adding much area for deepstrike coverage while also staying close enough to the gun.

16 points per shot.

People have been telling us though that's why our units went up in price.

To me this is how it looks. We had a weak 1 trick pony index that seriously needed some looking at. And we almost got it... but the overall points are still terrible for orks... in games vs IG I was taking less models! Now from the looks of it my list has gone up in pts! All while their list went down with the codex (remember, guard was one if the most powerful indexes and we expected overall nerfs but didn't see it).

The nerf for ork boyz from 6ppm to 7ppm I can absolutely understand it. But all the other nerfs? I can't. Like... Orks sucked balls barring boyz and stormboyz (that were heavely nerfed with the Fly and deepstrike changes)

This does not mean that this Codex wont have some broken combo/build. It will probably have one. And maybe it can compete in tournaments (I doubt it will be able to fight agaisnt Soup, of course). But at this point I cant see the need to nerf those units that where allready bad.

 lolman1c wrote:
People have been telling us though that's why our units went up in price.

UUUUUUGGGGGGGGG

Because Boyz were already good. They just got distinctly better. I guess Conscripts should never have gone to 4 and Infantry Squads should never go to 5 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
The nerf for ork boyz from 6ppm to 7ppm I can absolutely understand it. But all the other nerfs? I can't. Like... Orks sucked balls barring boyz and stormboyz (that were heavely nerfed with the Fly and deepstrike changes)

This does not mean that this Codex wont have some broken combo/build. It will probably have one. And maybe it can compete in tournaments (I doubt it will be able to fight agaisnt Soup, of course). But at this point I cant see the need to nerf those units that where allready bad.

Can you list the straight nerfs?

 Daedalus81 wrote:


They're not adding much area for deepstrike coverage while also staying close enough to the gun.

You realize right only 1 squad has to stay near the gun? T1 others run elsewhere. And of course it's not just deep strike. They are used thorough game. By the time game ends if they haven't been killed they are waaaay elsewhere to guns.